Top 5 Reasons You Should Not Use a Shotgun for Zombie Defense

Author: ZAC Admin
Submitted: 02 Nov 2007
Filed under: Home Defense &Mobile Defense &Safety &Safety Council

386 Responses to “Top 5 Reasons You Should Not Use a Shotgun for Zombie Defense”

1. Kain8719 on 05 Nov 2007 at 4:01 pm #

   I do not completely agree with the above article. Though a shotgun is not the best weapon it is by no means a poor weapon.

   Firstly in response to the ease of use. A shotgun is probably one of the easiest weapons to use. It is one of the most near idiot proof weapons ever made. It is no heavier than a M4 or AR15 variant, indeed a shotgun may be lighter than a fully load M4 once a the gadgets and gizmos are added on it. A shotgun is easily trained on as well. A shotgun also is highly versatile with a wide variety of loads that can be feed through the gun. For zombies a person does not need double or triple ought buck shot, number four buck is in my opinion preferable and lighter loads are also affective. Secondly a shotgun does not need to be precisely on target to hit the target since it throws out a number of projectiles. Also a shotgun is not as picky about loads as a rifle or even a pistol, a M4 or AR15 can be quite choosy in its taste for a certain load and accuracy can severely crippled with the wrong load, unlike a shotgun. Also a M4 needs a greater amount of care then a shotgun and in a hostile environment an ill trained fighter may not give the weapon the correct amount of care it deserves and cause it to jams or fail when they need it most, a shotgun is less likely to need as much care.

   Secondly the shotgun’s range and firepower. A shotgun can be loaded with any number of loads. For close in or distance work. For shots over seventy to two hundred yards a shotgun can be loaded with slug rounds. Also unless a person is highly trained or very good they will not be making long distance head shots on zeds so a high powered rifle may only succeed in getting them to make shots far outside their effective range and drawing in the enemy. Also a shotgun stopping power that is only eclipsed by a canon or large caliber rifle, and since there are a number of projectiles involved in the pattern there is a higher chance for hits at close range.

   Thirdly rate of fire. A shotgun does not have a high rate of fire, this is true, however in a zombie situation you do not want to panic and sent a volley of an entire magazine at a single zed. Secondly a trained marksman can empty a shotgun plenty quick. Also a point should be made that a full auto weapon would not be advisable for a zombie outbreak regardless since the temptation to waste ammo would be too great. Remember, waste not, want not.

   Fourth, reloading ability. If you are not practiced in reloading of any gun trying to get that weapon back into action could cost you your life, especially under stress. There are a number of shotguns now that have detachable magazines and even kits to change a tube fed shotgun to a mag fed one.
   Lastly ammo capacity. A shotgun has a limited capacity absolutely. That said in fleeing a zombie outbreak you will only be able to carry a limited number of rounds regardless of your weapon of choice and any weapon can choose to run out of ammo at a moment when you need it most. Your first order of business is to escape, not fight, especially if you are on your own. Firing your weapon should be your last resort and only if spotted since the report of the weapon will draw more.

   In conclusion a shotgun is not the perfect weapon but it is not the POS that it is described as in the above article. It is an effected weapon and though if a person is trained correctly a rifle gives them an advantage a shotgun should not be a weapon of last resort.

2. ZAC Admin on 05 Nov 2007 at 6:51 pm #

   It is people such as yourself who will only help further the living race and triumph over the undead. On behalf of the ZAC team and readers, I thank you for your input.

   First, if my article came across that the shotgun was a “POS”, then I improperly worded it as that was not my intention. Hollywood seems to overuse the shotgun and rarely seems to consider other alternatives.

   A shotgun is easy to use. However, continually working the action can wear the average person down. I would not hand one to my wife and say “Here, honey, go blast 40 zombies with this.” I think that if I had the choice I would hand her a weapon that would be easier for her to use over a longer period of time.

   “Secondly a shotgun does not need to be precisely on target to hit the target since it throws out a number of projectiles.”

   Right. However, the more damage you can throw at the undead head the better. In a panic, with adrenaline, and the fear of your life in the throws, it is tough to aim and hit anything. Most people do not practice this. So perhaps a shotgun would give the average person a better chance at taking some zombies out. My point was that if you needed to hit the brain to stop the ghoul, accuracy increases when using something other than a shotgun.

   “A trained marksman can empty a shotgun plenty quick.”

   I am not sure how many folks are trained marksmen on the average. I think most would be able to pick up and operate a shotgun faster than most other weapons. It is also the duty of citizens to be prepared for the outbreak.

   Still, I maintain that a shotgun would not be my first choice of weapon during an outbreak.

   “Your first order of business is to escape, not fight, especially if you are on your own. Firing your weapon should be your last resort and only if spotted since the report of the weapon will draw more.”

   Couldn’t agree with you more. Why are you not a writer for us? ;-)

3. Kain8719 on 06 Nov 2007 at 3:25 pm #

   In reply to your question of why I am not a writer for you, you haven’t asked.

4. lbreevesii on 06 Nov 2007 at 11:36 pm #

   While I mostly agree with your reasons, I do not feel that the M-4 is a suitable substitution. When it comes to zombies you are after as much physical damage as possible. This goal is completely against the ideas behind the creation of the .223(aka: 5.56 nato) round.

   First off it is a high velocity, light weight, small diamater projectile. This makes it well suited to wounding an assailant rather than killing them. Something that is all the more a problem with zombies. The round is designed to wound rather than kill(especially in FMJ form). I dare say, the only smal caliber round I would advise is the humble .22. As you may know, it has been labeled the assasins round of choice due to its tendency to penetrate a skull but not exit, therefore bouncing around causing maximum trauma to grey matter.

   Secondly, many of the problems of the shotgun can be overcome with a proper choice of model. Take say a Saiga 12ga rather than the standby 12ga pump. You get Detachable magazines(no tubes here), semi automatic fire, compact form, and just as much punch! As for recoil. What are you a wuss? Sorry, had to say it. In a semi auto shotgun recoil is GREATLY reduced over that of a pump. This is due to much of the forces being absorbed by the autoloading mechanism.

   While the m-4 has its advantages(weight, magazine capacity, combat load) it can be prone to jamming if not kept properly cleaned. If you do wish to stay with an M-16/ar-15 variant the H&K G36, and 416 are good options(however expensive).

   Other excellent options include the FAL firing the high powered .308 round. Despite potential overpenetration, the proper bullet choice can overcome this and lead to some serious tissue damage.

   Just some words of advice from a gun lover.

5. DarkStar on 07 Nov 2007 at 12:11 am #

   It is true that the shotgun is not the ultimate weapon that Hollywood makes it look, but when hasn’t Hollywood lied about something? But bottom line is that the shotgun is perfect for defending your home from the walking dead. Consider this; For example you live in a two story house, the undead have breached your perimeter right? Well you just head up those stairs and keep your back to the top of the stairs and wait till you get a good group of them coming up the stairs after you and pump whatever rounds you have into them, essentially creating a few corpses which combined weight pushes back the rest of the undead. There by giving you precious seconds to get up the stairs and get into another room in the house that you can barricade yourself into or go out some other escape route.

   Obviously the everyday Remington or Mossberg doesn’t have the best rate of fire or a large ammo capacity. So essentially you should upgrade to something like a Fully automatic 20 round drum fed USAS-12. Now aquiring a class III destructive device in North America is a little hard, but you can dream.

6. BOURNWE on 07 Nov 2007 at 6:42 am #

   My first point on this is the stopping power of a shotgun. Most of my shooting is done with 000 buck shot. I’ve found that a single round can knock a heavy target around and occasionally comes in handy getting rid of hanging tree limbs. This power can not only stop one zombie but knock him into his buddies, providing dead zombie for the others to have to fight while you have plenty of time to reload.
   Second, if this is based on the average person, they can’t aim. The spread of a shot gun makes aiming obsolete. It’s common knowledge that zombies travel in large groups which make jus’ shootin’ in there amongst ‘em and effective strategy that can be followed by the least trained marksman.
   Most importantly, every weapon is designed for a purpose. When you’re looking out a window at approaching zombies it’s best to have a good turret mounted machine gun, however failing that, a high powered hunting rifle with a good scope can be handy. Once they’re coming through the door a shot gun or two can easily keep them at bay for awhile. When all else fails my weapon of choice is a 45 auto; it provides power, quick reloading, and easy handling. Once you’re backed into a corner the pistol would be easier to turn on yourself as a final option any way.
   While it’s true that no single weapon can defeat a large group of zombies, the right combination and a house rigged with explosives in case you fail can do alot toward saving the world from being overrun.

7. lbreevesii on 07 Nov 2007 at 8:02 pm #

   dunno how well it works, but there is a company that makes a conversion for both pump and semi auto shotties(mossberg, remington, etc) that will allow them to use box and I think drum mags as well.

8. Kain8719 on 08 Nov 2007 at 1:43 pm #

   The.223 is highly effective, though it is small, though small size lends itself to carry large numbers of rounds. It will wound but just because it is small does not mean it will not kill. (If you are referring to current problem with killing Arabs in Iraq then I understand what you may believe of it lack of stopping power. This has more to do with the army wanting a round that can reach out farther and doing away with the 55Gr. and going to the 62Gr. which will over penetrate due to the design made for going through body armor.) That said you do not necessarily want to do the most damage possible, and if you do may I suggest a tank or a wood chipper, you only want to take out the brain, though I will agree that if that is not possible spinal damage may be acceptable, though not recommended.

   The G36 and H&K 416 would be very desirable but any weapon, even the AK47 will jam if not cleaned. The problem with the G36 and H&K 416 is obtaining them unless you are law enforcement or military, this is one reason why a standard AR is often cited as the weapon of choice. Another reason many cite the AR is that it can be modified to carry out any role one wishes. If you do wish to carry a weapon along the line of the 416, a gas piston operated AR, I suggest looking into DSarms or a SOPMOD, neither of which are cheap.I will not argue that the FAL would be a bad rifle just that carrying the larger 7.62(.308) in equal amounts to the number of .223 would double or triple your load of ammo(This still however a contentious argument among my fellow Zombie Hunters over weight and efficiency and power and distance.) Put simply a .308 is effective end of arguement.

   Secondly the 22LR is considered an assassin’s round (which may be a misnomer, in my knowledge, which could be flawed, it was used by hitmen) it was used less due to its lack of penetration but due to its low report (the sound of it being fired) since the hit was often done in a crowd. The problem that I have heard with the 22LR(and is another hot topic among some of my fellow zombie hunters) is that at distance it may not penetrate a target’s skull, resulting in you simply playing zombie pinball, redirecting the undead beast.

   As for choice in shotguns the Saiga may be a fine gun for the job, if memory severs it is based on the AK’s system and would be very reliable, plus a shotgun would take care of the inaccuracy associated with the AK. (For those fans of the AK my apologies I have never seen the AK as a accurate weapon for distances over one hundred meters.)The USAS 12 would be good as well though they both have the disadvantage of the weight of the round and amount you can carry. The shotgun is powerful though and this should never be forgotten.

   Another hot topic will be the load for the shotgun. Though most people think only in matters of double or triple ought buckshot I prefer number four buck shot since in my experience it holds a better group at distance, even holding a group at a hundred meters that would have impacted the head of a zombie, though penetration at this distance is in question. I will concede that at close range double and triple ought will likely do more damage, I simple am looking at an all around round, no pun intended. Though if you looking for the most damage why not a slug, which will reach out and touch a person at a distance, though make a head shot with a ounce and a half of lead may prove harder than one thinks.

   On a practical note another reason to look at a shotgun may be for reloading ability, not reloading the gun but the spent shells. This has been another discussion topic among my fellow zombie hunter here. If you are to stand and fight being able to reproduce ammo could be a godsend. From my experience many will not reload a .223 due to the chance of a bad load harming the gun, though with the price of lead they may now be rethinking this. A shotgun is simply less finicky about what you put through it in my experience. But reloading should also be considered n my opinion.

   My last piece is this, there will be not perfect weapon when the outbreak comes, only ones suited to the role that the operator faces. With that said depending on your place in the Zombie wars to come your weapon should reflect what battle you will be fighting.

9. DarkStar on 08 Nov 2007 at 11:25 pm #

   As for assault rifles, how does everyone feel about the P90?

10. ZAC Admin on 10 Nov 2007 at 8:13 am #

    “Second, if this is based on the average person, they can’t aim. The spread of a shot gun makes aiming obsolete. ”

    I agree and disagree with this statement. I have watched trained persons be placed through shotgun training scenarios and seen them continually miss a target. These were persons who possessed higher training with firearms compared to that of the average person and the only stress placed on them was a time limit, not to be compared with the stress of an undead outbreak.

    So while I agree that you could start blasting away and take out some of your intended targets, the average person still would have trouble aiming and could easily miss the most important target: the head. I also feel it important to note that the lack of aiming ability would most likely occur with any firearm.

11. goyaahhs on 11 Nov 2007 at 8:57 pm #

    I agree a shotgun such as the Remington 870 should be used as last resort, but a properly stocked hunting vest makes all the difference. When used in unison with another 870 or such model pump bu two persons who are familiar with their operation, the team can be quite effective. My first choice of weapon for distance is a nice .308 distance and knockdown . for closer combat 70 to 30 meters a nice PS 90 works great. High velocity and great explosive energy upon impact. From 30 meters to 10 meters a nice FN 5.7 pistol ( notice a trend to keep ammo the same.) it has the hi capacity clip and great accuracy. Finally if that get close enough a 12 guage of your choosing with 00 buck. with tghe vest fully stocked you have over 200 rounds to have on the run, ans as anyone who is prepared you have a vehicle ready to go with extra ammo already stocked, as well as your sanctuary hideout.
    ( at least I hope you do.)

12. goyaahhs on 11 Nov 2007 at 9:10 pm #

    Oh, by the way dont forget to take your .308 with you it will acceot all 7.62mm nato rounds you will find when the military gets overrun as in all the movies (not going to happen). The 5.7mm FN Hestral round is more effective than the .223, or the 5.56 mm and is cheaper when bought in bulk. The PS 90 is a top feed semi auto PDW and the FN5.7 is a nice Handgun compliment for it. But my first handgun choice is a Kimber SCII .45ACP with 3 mags. granted my family has a nicely stocked safe of weapons for just such an emergency……… Love the SKS nice for long and close combat.

13. Hugh on 15 Nov 2007 at 3:51 am #

    For a zombie outbreak I would recommend the following.

    The GP-36 rifle because of its accuracy, comparatively low recoil and handling, its a good gun and if your running away you can rely on it to take out any potential threats before thry reach you and at close range 5 full-auto at head level would not immediately become useless because of recoil as in the case of a lot of guns. However a guns only as good as the ammo its firing and I would suggest hollow-points, I mean I know you need a head shot to take it out but a zombie thats been cut in half won’t be nearly as much as a threat. An underslung grenade launcher’s probably a good idea too.

    The H&K MP-5 SMG with an extended mag this thing’ll cut down more zombies than a shotgun will and will go through one and in to the next and buck will not do that. On top of that its light, mobile and reliable if well-cared-for. Although it is effected by the plague of SMG’s, recoil so you’d need to watch out. Standard ammo’s probably fine.

    For a back-stop a Berretta M9 would work just fine as you should only be getting head-shots with your pistol so power doesn’t matter that much.

    On top of that 2 M-1 defensive grenades will really make an impact on a group of zombies but if you can’t get military type grnades mixing up some blasting gel and putting screws in it will have a similar effect.

14. Kain8719 on 15 Nov 2007 at 3:00 pm #

    The p90 is a very nice weapon and the one I have handled was nice in that degree, haven’t shot one though. The problem is that the ammo is not available in quantity necessary and it is NOT more effective than the .223 which is also the 5.56 NATO. It is lighter and lacks the down ranger proformace, its one advantage is that its recoil is less. Secondly it is not cheaper than the .223 when bought in bulk and if you know a place where it is tell me, please because I doubt you will find a place where it is. And before you speak I am talking of Mil-issue .223 not hunting ammo. I will, however, give you credit that standardizing ammo is a plus.
    Another thing in regard to why the M4, AR 15, and the M16 are the most popular rifles for exterminating the undead is because they are battle proven, effective, parts are readily available and can be found in any gun store along with ammo for it. Magazines and ammo are also used by our military and those of the military are also trained on it, familiar, and most of confident.
    The G36 is a fine weapon but again I will say that obtainment of one will be difficult at best and expensive. Secondly I have fired one the G36K(or commando) model, the smallest lightest model they make of it, full auto and its light weight is not an advantage here. The muzzle would rise very fast and high in sustained bursts. This why the military has made the M16A2 capable of no more the three round burst since after the third round you have little more the an anti air craft gun. As for accuracy it the shooter that makes that call, the iron sights that were on the G36 that I fired were crude in my opinion and the AR15’s, mine at least, are much more accurate. Maybe you should look into a scope.
    A submachine gun is fine though if I had to carry one it would be suppressed, and be compatible with the pistol I carry. Lastly can people please get over the Berretta fetish please. It is not a solve all pistol, truthfully I wouldn’t mess with one that wasn’t built before they got the mil contract to make them. Secondly for what it is, a nine mil. high cap, sidearm it is rather large. A Glock 17 is smaller has a larger mag capacity, two more standard, four with a plus two extension. It is lighter and more idiot proof, no safety, outside of the trigger, just pull the trigger to shoot. As for stopping power in a pistol, you might want to look into it, when you miss the head, knocking the SOB down might not be a bad idea. If you want something the size of a Berretta get a 1911, one of the greatest pistols of all time and it has a better round.
    As for grenades I wouldn’t waste the effort carrying them. They are not going to kill reliably, maybe slow the bastards down but unless they explode at head level they are not going to do much damage. One has to remember that most weapons are made to kill people and the systems that work to keep people alive, system that do nothing for the undead. In truth they may be more of a danger to you them to them, especially if you have no training on them. So unless you are planning on creating a zombie hunting brigade I remind you that stealth is your best bet and that firing your weapon should be your last resort.

15. Shakuras on 15 Nov 2007 at 9:16 pm #

    I would like to note that the rate of fire problem, in addition to reloading a shotgun, can both be solved if you manage to get your hands on a nice auto shotgun. The Pancor Jackhammer shoots at 4 rounds a second, has a 10 round clip, and is barrel loaded. Only problem at that point would be having enough ammo (it does use standard 12 gauge shells), storing that ammo (not a problem if behind a barricade), and having strong enough arms to use it for a while.

    I do admit, however, that getting your hands on one of these beauties is truly hard since they haven’t been produced full scale.

16. Hugh on 19 Nov 2007 at 4:36 am #

    mm… maybe I know a different G-36 because recoil wasn’t that much of a problem for me, I mean you did choose the lightest model. and the scope or modded sights are the way to go on a G-36.

    And my choice of grenades was pretty stupid if anything 2 fragmentation charges, definitely not standard military issue would work. When they go off they tend to turn limbs into pulp on a stick which I imagine would do more than slow zombies down. For starters if they had any skull cavities exposed to the blast it would kill them full stop otherwise they’d be pretty messed up from the blast, but they are as you might guess pretty hard to get.

17. AnsonMage on 19 Nov 2007 at 4:18 pm #

    I found it very interesting that I came to the same conclusion on my own. I currently rely on a Smith & Wesson M&P-15 along with a Walther P22 with a GemTec Outback II Supressor.

    I chose the AR-style weapon for 2 reasons (apart from my military training). These are 1) a good range that is effective for open sights. (In case of outbreak, who has spare batteries for optics?) And 2) for magazine capacity along with easy-to-obtain ammo.

    The next item on my list for the rifle is the 100 round Beta-Mag. Oh yeah!

18. AnsonMage on 19 Nov 2007 at 4:24 pm #

    As a side note: PLEASE! Please do not use grenades on zombies! There is nothing worse than throwing a grenade into a mix of zombies only to have pieces of said zombies continue to crawl after you!

    Explosives in general aren’t worthless, but they are far-less effective than a well-placed projectile! The problem is that with the living, explosives are highly effective at ripping us to shreds. The undead on the other hand can have both arms, both legs and a good portion of their torso blown off and they still pose a threat.

    I say again, Please don’t use explosives on zombies! I don’t want to have to contend with the crawlers you create or you for that matter when they latch onto your ankle…

19. Psycho419 on 19 Nov 2007 at 9:17 pm #

    The Carbine would be my weapon of choice.

20. shcokete on 20 Nov 2007 at 2:04 pm #

    The actual gun used is unimportant; lots of gun buffs do not know this. The main thing is that the bullets MUST contain silver. If you put a bit of scrap silver in your leadpot it will make them implode. It does not need a lot , 10 % silver should do the trick.
    If you can make your bullets at full moon that will help of course.
    If the alloy can be poured by a virgin that is better still.

21. shinola001 on 21 Nov 2007 at 10:39 am #

    The mistake that is being made here is the classification of zombies you may be dealing with. I believe we should also be prepared for “slow-movers” (ala-Dawn of the Dead) as well as “fast-movers” (28 days later).

    Now I should state that with either slow or fast moving zombies my primary defense is my Bushmaster AR-15 flat-top with the lightweight noodle barrel and an EOTech sight. Pistol is the Glock 17 and the Cold Steel Kukri is for close-in work. The Kukri is hard to beat in the remove-head-from-neck department – chainsaws excluded. My ammo for the AR is the Black Hills 55Gr Ballistic tip for “fast movers” and 62Gr SS109 for the slow movers.

    I’m surprised to read that people still have this “M16′s are unreliable…” argument. This isn’t 1973 in Vietnam…

    The Shotgun vs “fast-mover” is a hard argument to beat. Imagine trying to clear a building or a room for a safe nights rest… My Gunsite 870 with ghost ring sites is perfect for the job. Also, I believe it easily equips my girlfriend with effectiveness and very little training. Her job is to look hot and cover my 6 o’clock as well as blast the zombies off me when hand-to-hand comes in to play. “Just point at the head and pull the trigger, baby”. As far as pumping it goes…she should already know how to do that. We’ll go with the low-recoil tactical buck from Federal for that.

    Don’t get me wrong, I really like the .308 round against “fast-movers” and my M1A is great for it. The mag changes are much slower than the AR format so I’ve been thinking about picking up the DPMS in .308 to rectify this problem. That being said, .308 weighs a great deal more and the amount of ammo you can carry on the move is much less than that of the .223 so I would stick with my AR in a mobile situation.

    When dealing with the “slow-movers” from a fixed barricaded rooftop I prefer my Ruger 77/22 in .22 Mag with the Leupold VX-III in 4×12. I believe the .22 mag has enough punch to break through a skull and incapacitate zombie brain function – while allowing for a fun day of zombie plinking (or a “zombie-you-call-it” shoot-off with your buddies. In this case, I think the correct beer choice is more appropriate than the firearm….).

    Aside from zombie plinking mentioned above, another important piece of equipment for either type of zombie defense is a mouthpiece. If you don’t know why…just shoot a watermelon from 10 feet away with a shotgun and see if you tast a little juice in the air. Remember: their blood is tainted and it’s unsafe to consume. You don’t want your buddies shooting you later on.

22. Kain8719 on 21 Nov 2007 at 12:23 pm #

    I apologized if it came across that I meant recoil was bad on the G36 I was trying to states that muzzle rise is horrendous on a small rifle, the larger variant is not as bad but on a practical note the mags are sometimes hard to come by and running out of loaded rounds in the heat of battle could cost you your life. The AR 15/ M4/M16 mags are easily found and obtained, something that the plastic or polymer mags of the G36 cannot boost.
    I also concur with not using explosives on the undead, another problem could also be having undead fragments come back and impact you and not just the “living parts.” Having a chuck of a zombies skull imbed itself in your leg is a death sentence.
    The suppressor and beta mag are two thing that I cannot argue with, they re a must if your can afford and obtain them.

    A final note, shcokete should take his life more seriously, the undead are not a laughing matter.

23. shinola001 on 21 Nov 2007 at 1:14 pm #

    In regards to the beta mag and suppressors for zombie hunting:

    The beta mag seems like a good idea it actually poses a great deal of problems in this situation as well as others.

    It is very bulky and ungainly and most likely you will have only one. That means the standard 30 rounders are your normal supply that you will transition to when you empty the beta.

    Let’s say you bleed it dry. Do you drop that bad-boy in a leg-drop pouch? No – it’s too big and ungainly. Shall you drop it and hope to pick up later when time calls for it? Chances are you’ll have to move your position and it will be gone.

    Beta mags are difficult to tell how much is left – and it’s not reasonable to top it off in the middle of a stressful situation. You have the ability to “tact-change” the standard mags at any time, topping off the amount that’s in your gun. The beta mag will not provide such relief. It’s a slow loading dwindling supply of ammo (though fun to shoot full-auto on the range).

    I’ve mentioned in a previous post to another article that mobility is going to be key to defeating zombies. Here’s a snippit:

    “…the only way to defeat is to band together and you need to use all sorts of tools to let your human presence be known as well as seeking out other humans. Barricading yourself in your room is in hopes that some group will eventually defeat the zombies and you’ll be safe. A real American will be part of the group that hunts and defeats the zombies.”

    My point is that at some time as a real zombie hunter you will seek out others to partake in winning the war. The mobility and usefulness of your equipment in extreme circumstances will be tested. I suggest putting in repetitions doing speed and tactical reloads and get yourself a good chest rig and a leg drop pouch to dump your mags in.

    That being said, as a hunter would you EVER be concerned that your prey could hear you and COME to you? No need for a suppressor. If they’re too stupid to run when a hunter is after them they’re dead (again) meat.

24. Spartan125PD on 24 Nov 2007 at 1:42 am #

    I do agree that the shotgun is not the most effective weapon for zombie defense, however, how many people can just go out and buy an M-4? (Cost and availability in certain states) A .22LR is much more cost efficient (as you can buy 1k rounds for $10) and can be purchased anywhere and used by nearly anyone. Though a much smaller caliber, it still would get the job done.

25. Jack Halftrack on 24 Nov 2007 at 8:20 am #

    Why have zombies not yet mastered the skill of shooting ?

26. c1f3r on 25 Nov 2007 at 1:07 pm #

    well I think because they only long for flesh and brain and dont think about … can they even think? :)

    you guys sure have it lucky, where I’m coming from, there are no weapons and ammunition free for all after anarchy :D

27. James Brooks on 26 Nov 2007 at 2:21 pm #

    For an untrained shooter or a tired shooter or even a shooter in close-quarters action, a shotgun makes perfect sense. Loaded with buckshot, a shotgun has the potential to take down multiple zeds with one shot in close quarters.

    In addition, an untrained shooter has a far greater chance of destroying the brain or severing the spinal column with a shotgun than with any sort of rifle. I’d prefer to use a rifle myself, and hand off the shotguns to the other people in my group. I’d much prefer a shotgun over a rifle or handgun in close quarters. It decreases the margin of error and increases the chance of a successful kill.

    Incidentally, I prefer a simple M-14 with an expanded magazine as my primary.

28. Bob the Armed Liberal on 26 Nov 2007 at 2:45 pm #

    The right shotgun is exactly what you want for zombies.
    I own a Saiga-12 with a long, tightly-choked barrel, and a bag full of 8- and 10-round of magazines. The Saiga and its spare magazines are all loaded with #00-buckshot.
    This answers all 5 items: its maximum ammo capacity is 11 rounds, it reloads in a snap, it’s the fastest semi-auto shotgun made (and it shoots 9 pellets per shell), the tight choke gives it plenty of range, and the recoil is manageable.
    I also have two 10mm Glocks, just for backup, and my wife has her 8-shot .357 Magnum.

    We’re not expecting zombies, anyway: Delaware outlawed them years ago.

29. Rob J on 26 Nov 2007 at 3:00 pm #

    Actually, the effectiveness of a shotgun is only limited as to which shotgun you are using. The AA-12 and USAS-12 shotguns both address the problems you stated in the article. They both have recoil-reducing mechanisms. The bolt in the AA-12 absorbs most of the recoil, and what little recoil that is left is negligible. Also, both the AA-12 and the USAS-12 shotguns are fully automatic, and the AA-12 can load from straight magazines or drum magazines. The USAS-12 can load from straight magazines only, from what i know. I also believe that both of these shotguns can load slug rounds(tell me so if i’m wrong), which increase the recoil, but vastly increase the range.

30. Jordan on 26 Nov 2007 at 8:06 pm #

    I teach shotguning for a group i will not name on this sight and am a certified instructor. dismissing the shotgun in a pump or similar format is about as smart as trying to give a zombie a hug.
    For those of you who actually have acces to full auto or other military grade shotguns good for you and good luck cleaning them. As for the rest of us your shotgun is yourgood freind that should be called upon when the time comes, while backed into a corner.
    Its limited capacity for ammo is not a fault on its part, but yours.
    if your in a pinch and need more than 8 shotgun blasts of any load ex. slugs you suck. Its load time in that adrenaline filled situation is just as bad as your accuracy with a rifle, you follow?
    Its spread shotpattern in that backed up to the upstairs situation surpasses the need for accuracy the 8-10 or the even more rare 12 round capacity shotguns could easily holed of at least 15- 20 zombies.
    the force of the shots knocking the ones you didnt kill down would even give more time to reload.
    For the chump whi brought up the p90 obviously never fired or even handled a p90 mag. Yes there composite and light but there NON RELOADABLE!! thats right there plastic dispoasable magazine. Good luck finding ammo for the ergonomic garbage gun of the future.

31. WarmWaffles on 27 Nov 2007 at 12:56 am #

    Now I for one would choose a shot gun but only a 20ga because its light and the ammunition is lighter to carry. With that being said that also means that it will have less knock down power but it will do so nasty damage to the head if at 40 yards or less.

    Now what this article fails to mention is the fact that one would have a pistol with them if they wanted to live and also maybe a sword, because as we all know you don’t have to reload a sword. But back to real business, I have yet to find a better pistol than my prized Colt .45 because it has incredible knock down power and easy to reload and use.

    Has anyone ever shot a Five-Seven before? Because I would be very interested in hearing about its knock down power because I know it can fire at a rapid rate if need be, but it uses the same round I believe as the P90, but without the garbage.

32. spacecase0 on 27 Nov 2007 at 7:32 pm #

    I see some good ideas posted, her is my 2 cents,

    I see the zombie attack as a sustained thing.
    it takes time to reload clips, I can push new shells into my mossberg 590 way faster than I can reload any clip, and you can reload when the gun is ready to fire and aimed at the target, not something that many guns can do at all. the 590 also has a bayonet mount installed from the factory, not only does it look scary for home defense, it helps when it runs out of ammo.

    I know that 12Ga ammo is heavy (I can only carry 250 slugs on me easily) , but the main problem is that I do not own that many guns and can’t really afford to go get any more any time soon because I am low on money.
    and an ax or crow bar would be my backup,
    and would try to hide in the local sewer system as it is hard to get into and has many exits so that I hopefully would not need a gun at all.

    the most important thing with any weapon, is to know how to use it well and know its limits, if you get an ax that is to heavy for you, you will be in trouble, if you do not know how to shoot your gun, you will be in trouble, take it to a shooting range and try it out a few times, you can have a nice new gun only to find out it jams when you put 50 rounds through it, I recommend that you find out before you really need it. take it apart to clean it, you will find out if you can do this without loosing parts.
    always test your hardware completely and have extras if you can.

    I have always wondered if a flame thorougher may be more effective than any gun ? a garden sprayer filled with kerosene and a lighter may work better, at least if your outside with nothing to burn but zombies, and you can get them in any country.

    after the attack happens, everyone will figure out what works the best really fast, listen to your CB radio and ask the living that are left what they are doing right.

    and I really like the phrase “Zombie plinking” (god I hope the world never comes to that) I will have to take my .22LR with me and a few thousand rounds as well.

33. ZAC Admin on 27 Nov 2007 at 8:30 pm #

    “I have always wondered if a flame thorougher may be more effective than any gun ? a garden sprayer filled with kerosene and a lighter may work better, at least if your outside with nothing to burn but zombies, and you can get them in any country.”

    I would recommend against a flame thrower. Not only is it bulky compared to other weapon alternatives, but it is not nearly as effective.

    Should you find yourself surrounded by a group of zombies, and you use a flamethrower, you are still surrounded by a group of zombies except they are on fire. The flamethrower does not immediately take the undead out so they will pose a new threat to you.

    The most effective way to kill the brain is the best and safest route to take.

34. THE WACKER on 28 Nov 2007 at 12:51 pm #

    My brother went to some kind of military enlistment thing and was shown some kind of prototype of anew weapon. It comes as a regular carbine rifle, in many different models as well as grenade launchers.Its purpose is to extinguish the use of gunpowder. This would cut back on the costs for the wars in the middle east. But for us it means less space wasted for ammo. Look at a regular round, most of it is casing with powder. All you would have to carry is the slug itself. But there is one draw back. It pumps like a shotgun. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING TO USE WHILE BACKED INTO A CORNER. This gun shoots a slug with one pump. Unlike the shotgun that has a bigger kill radius. This new gun should only be used at distance (say clearing a fence line). This new gun is silent and just as strong as blackpowder.When ever I find out what this gun is called I will post again.

35. PsychoMedic on 28 Nov 2007 at 2:37 pm #

    They’re developing rifles with under barrel shotguns now, I’d have to go for one of those.

36. johnny on 29 Nov 2007 at 10:16 am #

    while i agree that the shotgun is not very good against zombies i cant agree that the m4 is the best choice. 556 is not a standard civilian round so it would be much harder to find then 9mm or 308. dont underestimate the power of a 22 against zombies because while it doesnt have much stopping power it is relatively quiet and can destroy the brain without too much kick or weight from ammo.
    however for a general purpose rifle i have to go with the m14. large round = stopping power and greater brain damage. ammo is fairly common and rifle is very accurate overlong ranges as well as a good rate of fire for close range. also mechanics are very simple so not likely to jam or break

37. zombiekiller on 29 Nov 2007 at 3:06 pm #

    This article overlooks the fact that any gun can jam, making any ammo supplies irrelevant. One should always carry a samurai sword for quick beheadings and to hold zombies at bay. Also, have a bicycle ready for quick evasion, gasoline runs out eventually.

    (I will have to credit the zombie survival guidebook for that, but those ideas are also pretty logical once you really start thinking about a zombie uprising.)

38. ZAC Admin on 29 Nov 2007 at 7:02 pm #

    “One should always carry a samurai sword for quick beheadings “

    We just figured that everyone already knew to carry a Samuri sword with them. ;-)

39. Noreakama on 29 Nov 2007 at 9:54 pm #

    I really doubt the claim made against the P90 magazines being un-reloadable. There is no mention of this fact on the manufactures site. Are you just staying that they are hard to reload in a combat situation. If the magazines are not able to be loaded, why are they sold empty?

    If it as meant that they take an incredible amount of time to reload, when you carry 3 spare mags and one in the gun. When you fire off 200 rounds and are worried about reloading, I think you are having a really bad day and might want to think of a career change.

40. Johnnyzombie on 02 Dec 2007 at 1:14 am #

    Um, how is it that everyone is overlooking the grand old standard, the AKM 7.62×39? I think it is the ideal anti-Zombie gun, consider: absolute reliability, high capacity (widely available and cheap 30, 40, and 75 round magazines), easy recoil, and a proven killer with its punchy .30 cal round pushing a 125 grain bullet (preferably hollow point or soft point) at 2365 fps. Ammunition is cheap and available (even in HP and SP) and the weapon is capable of cycling round after-round of the cheapest com-block stuff available. Add a Kobra holo-sight (which are side mounted and easily removed to allow access to irons) and you have a weapon that can get extremely quick acquisition in low light. Also, to those who would use the hackneyed argument that the AK isn’t accurate; I say, sure, it won’t nick quarters at 200 yards, but you sure can put rounds into a head at that distance and it will go boom anytime you pull the trigger you pull the trigger, something that can’t be said about a dirty AR. I also say if you shoot something at over 200-300 yards, just forget about an intermediate round altogether and get a full sized rifle round, .308, 30-06, or one of the .300 magnums.

    A P90 is a bad idea in my opinion, as the round is just a shortened AR round, made to excel against modern body armor. For a mindless killing machine one needs a fairly heavy round that isn’t specialized for penetration of armor. Better with a UMP .45ACP or even an old M3 Grease Gun if you’re going the sub-machine route.

41. el traverino on 02 Dec 2007 at 2:56 am #

    There is one primary reason not to use a shotgun spread round (especially a light one such as bird shot)… the penetrating power is often not enough to go through the human skull. Take Dick Cheney for example, if he had been going up against a brain thirsty undead scourge… and thats even a a few feet. If a shotgun is your only weapon or one of the only one available to you, make sure to stock up on slug rounds. If you can get them, explosive rounds are great too. While sometimes only enough to kill the directly hit victim, an explosive round can cause distraction with its loud, bright, and hot impact, and the concussion will hopefully knock a few motherless brain suckers to the ground, thinning out the ranks and buying precious time to escape. Heavier rounds like slugs are also good for breaching locked doors and other obstacles, which can be critical for escape (even from your own prepared barricades, if there is a breach somewhere else in your perimeter). Remember, ammunition type is of critical importance for all weapons, especially shotguns. For regular cartridge round ammunition; remember that teflon coated and armor piercing rounds can often pass directly trough a skull, perhaps scoring a lucky second (or even third) hit. But a hollow point round will cause vastly more trauma to the head it does hit.

    Remember, always think. It is your biggest advantage over the zombie.

42. Jordan on 02 Dec 2007 at 8:32 am #

    I really doubt the claim made against the P90 magazines being un-reload able.

    The sight you went to is for civilian legal “CP-90″-or something like that. The only ones you’ll be able to buy off that sight are semi-auto (which would be much better than full on ammo) And yes those magazines are reload able, but wasn’t the gun I was talking about a P-90? The P-90 is a “p-eice” of crap.
    The semi auto SP-90 or CP-90 (semi-auto or civilian) is just as bad with reload able mags. FN Herstal started a campaign to convince users of a new sub that would be amazingly affective in all aspects of the
    SMG world, they did.
    The only problem was the overcomplicated feeding mech. that brings fresh rounds into the chamber, the bullets perpendicular orientation to the guns barrel meant that a very small, very fragile, “turnabout” had to be placed in an area with one very odd anomaly, called “ghost recoil”.
    The ergonomic design coupled with its bull-pup style setup and composite stock generated tremendous amounts of non-felt recoil or ghost recoil. This is just recoil that’s horizontal instead of vertical. They didn’t worry about this because it has almost no affect on the shooter or the performance of the gun.
    Almost, It commonly jams the feed spring on this rotating metal ring that is supposed to float and allow the next bullet in line to “drop and push”. As an insult to its decent accuracy this ghost recoil hinders its ability (even more so than other SMGs) to keep its sight alignment with most aiming references, a few do all right but need continual adjustment to stay accurate for ex: Red dot sights peep sights -almost always aftermarket-, and some compact scopes usually made by Swiss Arms (go Swiss!) but it just doesn’t have the range for those.
    If you read into the P-90 you’ll find that Herstal themselves recommend it against infantry use so what in the hell makes you think it’ll be ok for Anti-Zombie Action?

43. Jordan on 02 Dec 2007 at 8:38 am #

    Wait a minute who cares if the p-90′s got a reloadable mag. What caliber do you think it shoots? 5.7x28mm, where do you expect to get bullets like thoes unless your close freinds with an armorer in the militery or work at herstal GOOD LUCK! Herstal came up with that bullet for there new line of copmact ergos.

44. mehrue on 02 Dec 2007 at 11:48 am #

    actually, they had a new type of shotgun on furture weapons. the A22 or something along those lines. it was basically a tommy-gun version of a shotty. it had really low recoil, because of a new dispersion design. it shredded, and it shredded fast. the clips for it contained 20 – 32 rounds. it’s a military use only gun, but in a zombie scenario i’d definitely do my best to get my hands on one.

    best of luck to us all

    meh

45. Ben on 02 Dec 2007 at 12:16 pm #

    I have a ps90, in fact I have two of them. I think that it would be more than ideal for a zombie outbreak, especially when compared with a shotgun.
    First lets look at ammo capacity. The p90 has 50round magazines, yes thats fifty. your standard shotgun can hold about 6 in the tube. I know that If my back is against the wall I’d rather be about to dish out a ton of little rounds really fast than a few bigger ones really slowly. When It comes to being able to carry ammo the p90 really shines. A .50cal ammo can, (you know the green ones) can fit 2000 5.7mm rounds. But it will only hold 160 12ga rounds..
    Range is another place the p90 out does a lot of guns especially considering its size. After a few range trips I think that consistent head shots at about 150m would not be too hard. Most assault rifles will out range the p90, but in a high stress situation most people just aren’t that good of shots.
    Recoil is another huge plus for the p90, simply put, there isn’t any. A decent marksman could get repeated head shots at about 50m very quickly. And the very light recoil would be a huge plus after days of non stop shooting, don’t want no bruised shoulders.
    Another thing that few people think about is how light weight the p90 is. I have carried one playing airsoft games for about 48hours at a time. Unlike everyone else with their larger heavier guns I was not nearly as fatigued. One last thing about the littleness, its a really quiet gun, not nearly as loud as an ar-15 . I don’t know if zeds are attracted by sounds that much, but it couldn’t hurt.

    To address Jordan’s comment: 5.7*28mm is easy to get on the civilan market now. Lowest price I have been able to get it for a $16 a box. I will admit its not nearly as common as 5.56mm its is still easy to get. And its not likely that people will be very inclined to share their ammo after TSHTF.

46. Dan on 02 Dec 2007 at 4:12 pm #

    Hi, I didn’t read over all the comments so forgive me if this was already mentioned, but in my mind a shotgun should only be used as a last resort, cornered in a room with maybe a dozen zombies coming at you from every direction. In this case, you can blast away half of the zombies on one side of the room and escape in a matter of seconds, which could be crucial. It shouldn’t be the only weapon carried on you, as your best bet would be a handgun, shotgun, and some type of high powered rifle for distance shooting. Whereas the handgun and rifle are for offensive shots, the shotgun is for defensive shots.

47. Jordan on 04 Dec 2007 at 9:39 pm #

    16$ a box? That kicks a little ass, last time i asked Kenny (local gunshop) i had to shell out 30$.

    Airsoft Ben? Really? Your serious, did you just compare an airsoft gun to an actual firearm? I find that insulting Ben that hurts, what about all us boys at camp silvercreek who had to pack the p-90 for two weeks, your weight and our weight are two completely dif. things.

    As for the shotgun, Nobody here is saying that you should ditch your rifle and hump around just a shotty. At 150m of course it doesnt even come close to the p-90 acuracy -yes thats right Jordan actually said something good about it-

    Who said all shotguns have the 6 round toob every one i own came with the 8 shot standard, unless of course you forgot about your sporting plug blocking the two spaces for extra shells, thats so you can go bird hunting with it. Just screw of the end of the tube and pull that POS out. And I would load an extra round into the chamber and pull off a solid 9 rounds.

    Yes there is little recoil for the p-90 but your good ole 20 guage doesnt kick like a mule either itll do just as much damage as a 12 with the right load.

    OK guys ENOUGH WITH THE P-90 lets be real about this if were gonna pull out a compact on a zombie its gonna be the new .45 cal KRISS super V. Thats a spank new bad bitch let me know the second it comes out for trials ill be all over it.

48. shinola001 on 05 Dec 2007 at 1:18 pm #

    I’m gonna chime in to put the p90 debate to rest. That odd duck might seem like it’s cool in Call of Duty 4 (real world thumbs down) but I suggest spending your $ on 5 stamped AK’s and outfitting your neighbors instead.

    As a matter of resources, I would way rather have 5 humans each with a functional firearm than 1 who can’t speed reload or find ammo 10 minutes after the first wave hits.

49. Jordan on 05 Dec 2007 at 6:59 pm #

    Shinola001

    You are the first person in a while to actually make some sense, post more often.

    I am a strong believer in the Kalashnikov rip off or not there an excellent design, and with a few U.S. mods its a formidable weapon in any area.

    Hey ZAC start a topic of appropriate weapons this is way off topic.

50. shinola001 on 06 Dec 2007 at 10:36 am #

    Thanks, Jordan. I’ve read all of your posts and it’s clear you know your stuff and can back up the talk on the range.

    ZAC, let’s also start a string on forging a plan to vanquish the foe instead of just surviving. Like proper transportation or where the best place like-minded Zombie Hunters need to meet up after the first attack.

51. Crazymother on 07 Dec 2007 at 5:18 am #

    Id have t say that the shotgun would be useful for a while, but when its comes down to both cost and zombie kill rate for any fire are, id go with the 22 cal. 10/22 Ruger With two 50 round banana clips taped together. I feel it would work best for a few reasons.

    1. Price, a ruger 10/22 will cost you only $175 at Anywhere and its well worth it just for the plinking factor. The magazines are also in great availability and are cheap as well. And lets not forget the ammo, it is the most widely made ammunition next to military .223 and 7.62, but at only a fraction of the cost, around $10 for a box of 500 rounds. You can stock pill ammo for this gun and kill your whole town if they became zombies.

    2. Its and easy weapon to use, anybody over the age of 12 would know how to work and clean such a simple firearm, and if it jammed up on you, its easy to eject the stuck round. Its also very light and shorter then a shotgun and most rifles, making it easier on the arms and body.

    3. little or no recoil, meaning that you can put more rounds in to the heads of zombies faster and more accurate than any other semi auto.

    4. The over all kill ability of the .22 LR round. Many owuld think that the 22 is way to weak to be a true zombie killer, that is far from the truth, it actually fits the roll perfectly. The 22LR will fire at 1200 to 1600 fps with an impact force from 94Ft.Lbs to 270 Ft.lbs depending on length of the barrel and the brand of ammo you use. This is more then enough to damage and destroy a human brain at over 100 yards. Another thing about the round is that it mimics the effect of the .223 from the famous m-16 or m-4, both rounds tend to tumble and fragment after first impact, causing even more trauma to the target. Now the .223 would pass right through the human head even at 500 yards, and although it would leave a VERY big exit whole, the round would keep going and be a risk to anything in its path, such as a friend that is with you and got separated or a random propane tank. Where as the .22LR only has enough energy to enter but not exit, meaning that the round will actually BOUNCE around inside the targets head and fragment even more, causing a great amount of brain damage and would probably leave your zombie flailing on the ground from the neural cross firing in he head.

    5. the mess it leaves behind. Many other weapons will tend to leave a huge mess behind after taking out said target, as many of you know, the human head is filled with blood and soft tissues, and if such mater was to say find its way into your mouth or onto on open wound by splatter or some random event that was out of your hands, then you yourself might become infected. Where as with the .22LR, there is very little mess to deal with, it leaves a small hole in the head where little blood can escape, and a bulky, stinky, virus infectious dead undead body at your doorstep.

    i really don’t know if anyone will read this or not, i just posted it for fun while i waited to join Battle grounds on WOW. But if there ever is a zombie outbreak, please take my advise.

52. GunPorn on 09 Dec 2007 at 5:36 pm #

    Personally, I would go for a 7.62 NATO “battle rifle” over a 5.56 rifle when it comes to killing zombies. Ammo capacity is about the same, although it weighs more, but the chance of actually blasting enough of their head off with a single shot is a lot higher, IMO.

53. darren on 11 Dec 2007 at 1:11 pm #

    I totally disagree with this, but this is just an opinion.

54. Eutow on 11 Dec 2007 at 7:48 pm #

    when it comes down to killing zombies, shotgun for the win. when it comes down to surviving a zombie apocalypse, shotgun for the loss. no way to install any kind of silencer, ammo is bulky, weapon itself is bulky and in some cases heavy, and the power is just too much for what you really need in a zombie situation. why not just rely on a 9mm or a glock? you just need to pierce the skull, not blow a hole in their chest.

55. Martha Rose on 12 Dec 2007 at 1:39 pm #

    I would agree with a previous commenter – guns are not a sensible option in a zombie outbreak. My guess would be that the very idea of using a gun of any kind as a primary weapon is more Hollywood rubbish than common sense.

    In any close-contact situation, a gun is going to fail you. No matter how long your ammo lasts for, you will eventually run out. In addition, anything that packs a punch (and so requires a less skilled aim) is also likely to produce a lot of spatter: the last thing you want after dispatching a zed is airborne brain matter. These strains are highly infectious – we’re all aware that a bite that breaks the skin is enough to transmit the disease, but inhaling or ingesting any infected flesh is also a no-no.

    Ideally, a machete, samurai sword, or any other blade-based weapon should be used. These do not require ammo or re-loading, are easier to use (although some training is desirable) and enable a skilled practitioner to cleave the skull or remove the head with minimal spatter (the lack of a functioning vascular system in most zeds works in our favour here, as arterial spray is not a problem).

    A shotgun may be useful, however, in some situations. Picking off zeds at leisure from a secure rooftop, for example, would be far trickier without a gun.

    That said, these weapons should not be relied on. The major problem is that they require ammo – unless you’re lucky enough to be holed up in a munitions factory, you will eventually run out!

    Sustainable weapons are a necessity if you are serious about defending and building a new society, and should be investigated as much as possible.

56. FaceGrater on 14 Dec 2007 at 8:15 am #

    I fully agree with Martha. ANY form of weapon which causes splattering should be out of the question, esp. shotguns or any high-caliber firearms. I would go for a handgun/smaller rifle during close-quarter encounters and a .22 for sniping from my roof. Spattering will get you a one way ticket to Zombieland. Unless you have a yellow HazMat suit. But running around in that would be uncomfortable I would imagine.

57. macgyverhk on 19 Dec 2007 at 10:39 pm #

    It is quite understandable that Martha is frightened of airborn Zed brain matter. I suggest wearing an NBC mask when you begin your assault. I however, disagree with the notion that one can not rely on his or her weapon to get you out in time. I also believe a Saiga-12 shotgun is your best defence against these un-Godly creatures. It can be fired controllably at a high rate of speed and 12 guage ammo is readily available. Additionally, 10 and 20 round mags are now available. But always keep a side arm in your drop leg pouch and an MP5 slung on your back. BE prepared. Prepare your three day pack now.

    If an outbreak happened, the first place I would shoot my way into, only if need be, would be the local Walmart to succure additional ammo and supplies. Everything they have in every calliber I have; pile it in my shopping cart, max out the credit card if the teller has not yet turned to a ZED, and get the ammo to my truck as soon as possible. Perhaps grab some SubWay and a Monster on the way out if time permits. Next, I would shoot my way, if need be, through the woods in my 4×4 till I reached Yellow Stone park living my days out in salitude till the ZEDs die off.

    I refuse to believe that ZEDs were once dead beings reanimated. If that was the case than where do you draw the line ie: if the Zombie virus gets out Mummy’s will rise as well, hardly. The virus has the ability to make only the then somewhat to fully living into mindless blood thirsty killers. Not reanimating the already completely dead. I further refuse to believe that people once infected by the virus live forever as blood thirsty creatures. Anything and everything that bleeds requires a food sourse to remain alive, once the ZEDs have eaten all of the nonaffected people they then would have to turn to canabalism to survive, the “dead not Zed” will begin to decompose within hours of dieing and the meat would soon be scarce at best. Eventually Zed’s, being idiots, would die off and the surviving nonaffected inteligent survivalists like myself would move back into town just waiting for one more of those disgusting SOB’s try to bust through my door so I could watch his head explode as my 12 guage slug reaches out to say hello.

58. RHINO72 on 20 Dec 2007 at 2:57 pm #

    the shotgun in my mind is a great tool for a lot of things killing Zeds is at the top of my list the shotgun could be used to blow off hings of doors and used to clear other obstacles the M4 is not a great weapon to take a door of its hings aslo you could get a nice sawed off to have strapped to your side just in chase you need to make a quick exit know days you can get auto shotguns like the M3 or the Saiga-12 but for me the shotgun would be a OH SH*T weapon when it realy comes down to it still it would be great weapon to have as a back up along with a Glock 17

59. Some guy on 20 Dec 2007 at 7:19 pm #

    one thing everyone (should know)that shotguns have massive stopping power (unlike the assult rifle) the shotgun is going to make a zombie fly right down on its back (so if your corrnerd) make sure its a bunch of stairs so you can make them pile up and block new incoming zombies

    and for the assult rifle well it dosnt stop if you miss its head and yes its not going to look at hole and stop them unlike the shotgun that if you miss the head by accident and hit there body its going to propel them backwerds and mabye by luck knocking down some of his buddys down to and to acheive a head shot for everyshot with assult rifle is well…….very unlikely only a trained millitary or swat officer could do that and the shotgun’s stock, butt (or what ever you wana call the back of a gun) is reinforced than other forms of most assult rifles m4′s, enfields,and more ones like the ak-47 and other guns sometimes from thrid world countrys or such some times (well you could buy the stock of an asslut rifle with a reinforced stock or make one) soo if one of the basterds get to close turn to close no ammo no time to reload (not preferd)but you can flip most shotguns around and use it like a bat

    but ya the shotgun is prefred to only be used for med. or close encounters as well for the poor people that wore body armour and helmets a nice 12 gauge shell(aswel as a 22. caliber rifle round will do the same) will snap that helmet in half (if you have enof aim of course if it far away)

    im not saying you shouldn’t use any other gun but everyone knows that every gun (and i mean EVERY gun)have advateges and disadvateges

    the shotgun disadvategses:
    ONE.)) well you have to load shell after shell most swat officers and millitary units traind with it are trained to load them very fast unless you train your self to load that fast reload when there not so close to bite you (or have a hand full ready)

    TWO.)) evryone knows this basterd WEIGHT every gun has it and the shotgun will have extra weight when carreing the shells (epessily if you plan to use diffrent types)

    THREE.)) Range every gun has a maximum range unfortunetly shotguns have a very………small range if you compare it to a assult rifle it dosen’t go far…and to assult rifle (manly having a 500-600 yards range) if you compare to a bolt-action rifle(sorry for goin as bit off topic)which the WW2 Kar98 bolt-action rifle the butt of the gun was DESIND for whacking some in the side of the head an incompasitating them and the range with a scope can go up to 1000 yards (if you beleve me that really far if your planning to snipe a zombie)

60. Adam Robertson on 20 Dec 2007 at 7:52 pm #

    yes the pump shotgun is slow but it has more fierpower a spats shotgun is faster rate of fire put less firepower you can upgrade shotgun to carry 25-30 rounds. the M4A1 rifle blows mad donkey balls. you want a semi-auto or bolt-action rifle the lee enfield, bar kar-98,the worst is the M1 garant, the best is the Gewehr 98. and if you have a problam you can go fuck your self !!!

61. curious on 01 Jan 2008 at 12:43 pm #

    i just want to put this out there, since i am not an expert or anything, but most any website i go to mentions specialty ammunition for shotguns, including exploding rounds, flamethrower rounds, bolo rounds, combo shot and slug rounds, armor piercing, different grades of shot for different levels of penetration, entry rounds for opening closed doors, even dye packs, confetti, & bean bag rounds (though that obviously the last 3 would not help you deal with ravenous undead, still fun for practical jokes and parties!) wouldn’t this diverse choice of loads contribute something in a post-apocalyptic survival scenario? *disclaimer, i do not put forward that the shotgun would be the only weapon in your arsenal, nor the primary, but a useful contribution, possibly a must

62. mike on 05 Jan 2008 at 11:12 am #

    the shot gun has many charms for defense against the undead, especially when teams up with oo buck and slugs, although the massive bruise on my right arm will testify that not being careful with such ammo can damage the user.

    anyway, there was some mention of assult rifles and their drawbacks, however, i recommend the trusty sks. it is fairly inexpensive and widely available. i have fired thousands of rounds through mine and never a problem. the ten in the box dont work for you? change into a clip. also fairly inexpensive.

    the 7.62×39 is an awesome round. me and a friend used it to fell a tree. a good six incher. granted we also used some 12 ga, hense the bruises, but over all the mighty sks did the job. through and through the stump. also has an effective range of about 600 yds stock i believe, it has been a production design since the mid thirtys, and uses the same round as the ak-47. communists all over the world agree, the sks and 7.62x 39 is a powerful and reliable system. they have stood up against m-4, m-16, and all those other clever black .223 rifles. if it can pass through trees logs, mounds of dirt, computer monitors and everything else i could afford to destroy, then a zombie is no match for the sks.

    7.62×39 is everywhere, the sks is everywhere, it loads fast and will cycle as fast as you can pull the trigger. need a rifle that wont cop out when the zombies are all about? get your sks today!

63. MasterWolf on 10 Jan 2008 at 1:29 am #

    I have to disagree a bit with this article

    Shotguns come in a lot of shapes and sizes and are potentially one of your best tools for zombie defense – esp if your out and about foraging.

    As mentioned by others a shotgun can be used for more than just zombie killin’ . its range of loads makes it a valuable hunting tool as well.

    A practiced shotgunner (and lets be honest here – if you dont practice – any weapon will get you killed) is as efficient and deadly as a handgunner with a wider range of engagement and ammo options.

    if your not a big person dont overlook the lighter 20 Gauge weapons – more ammo capacity and for most engagement rages just as effective against the living dead as a 3″ magnum 12 bore. Personally i got for 00 or 0 buck shot – 1/2 doz big ass ball bearings in a tight pattern will make unlife very miserable for even the most determined Zombie.

    For the wife and kids – a light shotgun is an excellent choice that can be effective even with point and shoot level training.

    if your worried about rate of fire and reloads – go with a Saika 20 Gauge – basically an AK chambered for 20 Gauge – same AK reliability, same AK ease of reload.

    Personally i go for a L1A4 battle rifle with a para stock and under barrel 20 Gauge on weaver racks (makes it easy to swap over if i can score a 40mm Talon somewhere). I like the range of options the big bore give me and the shot gun makes for excellent back up and utility. Back it up whith a H&K USP in .40, a bark river Evolution 1 (the best knife anywhere) and a nice sharp reliable CAS Iberia Katana (or your choice of real steel sword or axe) and your set for an afternoon’s foraging.

64. ak47thug on 11 Jan 2008 at 7:23 pm #

    I do agree with the article but I disagree with M4 as SHTF rifle. For zombie, a SHTF rifle of choice would be an AK47 in 7.62×39 as this round will stop the brain from functioning and will definitely stop the zombies behind the intended target as well. If center mass hit was done, it will ensure the zombie is knocked back so bad and give shooter a chance to raise the rifle for higher aim. A dead-center hit in the chest will always destroy the spine and turn off the brain.

    AK47 is a weapon of choice if one is to stay put in defensive position and have the liberty of expending rounds toward zombie out to 200 yards while 100 yards hit is much more secure. For CQB with zombie, a much better round is a 9mm coming out of a G19 with 6 inches aftermarket barrel and snail mags (100 rds capacity). Shooter just need to aim at chin level and squeeze away. With a G19, shooter can also get a carbine conversion kit and turn it into a long range carbine to take out zombies from the safety of his balcony.

    .223 is reserved for mall security and rodents.

65. Chimpy on 16 Jan 2008 at 11:14 pm #

    If you’re in the US I *might* recommend the M4, simply because the armed forces will have plenty of ammo for it. However, you’re ignoring the fact that the AK47 is

    1. More reliable
    2. Idiot-proof
    3. Bigger, meatier bullets.

    The advantages of the M4 are that it is
    1. More accurate
    2. Better at armor-piercing
    3. More ammunition (at least in this context)

    The only one that applies is the ammo question. I’d make a decision based on how much AK ammo you could get, but the M4 just isn’t ideal.

66. Chimpy on 16 Jan 2008 at 11:16 pm #

    Also, in response to Martha Rose – guns are ideal for many situations. They allow you to engage the enemy at ranges farther than 10 feet. A non-firearm weapon may not send stuff splattering as much, but you’ll be much closer and therefore more vulnerable.

67. jediwannabe1 on 22 Jan 2008 at 1:42 pm #

    1. I am not Alone in a zombie attack, I will have my friends carry a variety of weapons. Someone in my group will have a shotgun, and grenades. (I like the M-4, thats what I would use)
    2. I will go to a trading post, lock it down, and then I won’t have to choose and be all nit-picky about what I will shoot zombies with.
    3. If i am alone, (which I won’t be, I’m always ready for the imminent zombie attack) and stuck with a single weapon, i would want the M-4 as it fits a variety of roles, and it, and it’s ammunition more readily available than more of it’s counterparts.
    4. If I got my hands on military grade equipment, i would prefer the SCAR H, or HK 416 which can be also modded with all kinds of great grenade launchers and underslung shotguns. Or maybe the M1A1 weapons platform….

68. MasterWolf on 29 Jan 2008 at 2:59 am #

    Damn yanks!

    the M4 is a lightweight plastic piece of crap!

    the SS109 5.56mm projectile is designed to WOUND an opponent not to kill one.

    sure its easy to use and ammo is plentiful, but even a direct hit to the brain case at close range is not guaranteed to do anything more than give a zombie a nice lobotomy.

    I have personally seen normal , living humans take 7 or 8 hits from an M4 before being rendered a combat ineffective casualty – and even then they were able to be med-evac-ed with a fair chance of recovery.

    if your fighting the unfeeling undead hordes you want a weapon that will STOP a target dead!

    anyone wanting to do some research take a look at the insurgencies in the British raj at the turn of the century and the weapons the poms had to develop to stop drug crazed fanatics.

    5.56mm – great for wars with the living – shite for actually killing stuff

69. Albino on 05 Feb 2008 at 4:17 pm #

    Well i cleaned up the handgun section, time to take care of the anti shotgun market i guess.

    Anyone who has read any of my reviews know I look for two things, stopping power, and ammo availability. So a 12 gage shotgun is probably going to be ideal for a person like me right?

    For a person like me, yes, anyone who is over six foot and over two hundred pounds is going to be able to pump out round after round after round with a 12 gage.

    But what about someone smaller? (keep in mind i am advocating shotguns here) well for the shot gun there is a huge problem with smaller people, the shorter the gun is made the more kick its going to have. So what is the solution? well at this point the best i can give you is to go out and buy some .223 scatter shot ammo, its basically like firing a shotgun with little to no kick. But i have only seen .223 scatter shot once so i would not recommend it. As soon as they open a section for rifles i will tell you my opinion.
    But for those of you who are wondering when im going to get to the point.

    1. Its true shotguns have a depressingly low ammo capacity, i think the most is 20 rounds and that is in the USAS .12 a military shotgun that almost no one has access to. solutions? Get some ammo pouches, or some shell holders for the side of your weapon, get a longer tube. Usually you can get one up to eight rounds. there is really no cure for the low ammo capacity of the shotgun.

    2. As for the reloading time, just like any weapon, practice practice practice. set up a timer, start with a minute see if you can fully load your weapon. Then thirty seconds, then fifteen, then ten. if you can fully load a shotgun in ten seconds, well i am still working on that one. If you think it takes a long time to load a shotgun try loading a 30 round magazine for a rifle. believe me, it takes some time.

    3. The idea of a shotgun for a weapon is really not rate of fire, its more of a “crowd killer” weapon, so if the situation you mention is at hand, the first zombie you engage is going to topple a few feet down the stairs and become tangled with the others. but back to the point, with a shotgun you can put out about one round a second, it sounds fast but it is really quite slow, count it out “one one thousand” and that is rapid fire with a shot gun.

    4. completely agree with the writer here, shotgun rage is not the best, in fact most pistols will go farther then a shotgun. but the stopping power comment makes me nervous. it could just be me but i would feel much more comfortable with something that i know can knock a living human to his back on the first shot. Then a .223, i own a .223 and love it dont get me wrong its a great caliber, but keep in mind you are shooting a souped up .22.

    5. i really already said it, use the shotgun only if you know you are not going to hurt yourself, put it BELOW the clavicle nothing is worse then taking a shotgun butt to bone. there is a space on your shoulder a little lower then where you would hold a rifle it will not hurt anyone to shoot a shotgun there, keep in mind i never said it will not bruise.

    Now for my opinion on what shotguns to pick up.

    The Remington 1187, semi automatic, 12 gage, usually comes with a sling and a shock absorbent rubber pad. plus its pretty easy to modify these guns to have more ammo or to carry more shell holders on the side.

    The Remington 870 20 gage pump action its less gun then the twelve gage and the pump action is a natural movement when you are in a recoil stage.

    The anything made by Bernelle i think that is how you spell it. put the cash up and and you can drop any one of these off a cliff and it will still work.

    some equipment to have.

    Go onto Cabela’s website and look for “shotgun bandolier” fifty rounds you can keep across your chest, they also sell 25 round belts. also look for the TacStar weapons light system, always handy to have a flashlight on the end of your gun. i will probably get on later to put up more shotgun choices

70. cr1m50n on 20 Feb 2008 at 8:14 am #

    altho some would argue it in effective, as an alternative to buckshot, you can opt out for flechette rounds. these nasty suckers will cut thru most anything at close range. however I am inclined to agree that having just a shotgun is futile. still, a shotgun for some close quarter crowd control, with some side arms might not be a bad idea, especially if you are in a group.

71. Seshmarls on 22 Feb 2008 at 6:24 am #

    I vote the TAR-21 instead of the M-4. The TAR-21 is a bullpup config with a barrel 2″ longer then the M-4 but is 6″ shorter in length overall. This more compact design is ideal for urban settings. Also the TAR-21 has a holoscope built onto the barrel. So you don’t have to worry about bringing it to bear in a door way or getting it caught on anything.

72. Seshmarls on 22 Feb 2008 at 6:34 am #

    Oh also the xtrema2 by Beretta is a very good shotgun for the kiddies. With little to no recoil (can unload all the shells one handed(its semi auto)) even a 5 year old can mow down zombies. A shotgun is a great weapon all around add a choke to it and increase your range(not by much). Or use some of the exotic rounds (dragons breath, dragons teeth, flechette, slugs, and avengers) and spice up your day.

73. cr1m50n on 22 Feb 2008 at 11:19 pm #

    something like a USAS-12 would come in handy in these situations. altho rather heavy, this will actually help to absorb some recoil. add the fact that these types of shotguns can be operated in automatic fire modes with a 20 round drum makes them more or less extremely effective as crowd control. however, be warned, in additon to weight and bulk, in automatic mode, some of these shotguns are capable of emptying over 300 rounds per minute, meaning that a 20 round drum won’t last long if you get trigger happy.

74. jediwannabe1 on 02 Mar 2008 at 2:17 pm #

    If you’re running through a city, or any other place for that matter, during a small scale zombie outbreak a shotgun will be great to have as long as you are in a party of 3 or more and the other members of said party have diffferent weapons. Because say you have to cross a large field, you see about 15 zombies all spread about 50-100 feet apart. A shotgun can easily blow the head off of a zombie and since the zombies are spread apart, you will be able to get in close to each one if you hurry. also while running through this field say a zombie gets too close to you and you can’t raise your gun to fire at the head. just shoot it in the abdomen and it will get thrown back at least enough to give you time to get your gun in the correct position.
    now don’t get me wrong. I;m not saying that the shotgun is the best weapon, I’m just saying it would be good in certain situations. I do agree with the authors of ZAC when they say that the best weapon is an M4 assault rifle. Also sniper rifles would be great to ensure that you have a clear cut path too get to where you want to go.

75. Albino on 03 Mar 2008 at 12:24 pm #

    once again Jedi we are mostly on the same page, but i would never advocate a NATO round for zombies, due to military actions .223 (5.56) will be difficult to find it already is getting hard to shoot my Mini 14.

    Also when you talk about M16s and M4s remember one thing, your shooting a .22 with a rocket engine on the back of it. .223s were made to neutralize people with body shots, not make brain matter gray fill the room. Either way be it a .223 or a .50 Big Bore Rifle just remember HEAD SHOTS! with smaller calibers “three in the head you know they are dead.” with a shotgun, well one trigger squeeze and you can put 12 double ought buck shot rounds into one area.

    the solution? get 3 maybe four people, a rife and a shotgun! its that easy!

76. jediwannabe1 on 04 Mar 2008 at 9:14 pm #

    Dude… I wanna be with you when the zompocalypse comes…

77. sean on 05 Mar 2008 at 11:24 pm #

    but what if you don’t live in the states?
    what if you live in canada or australia or the uk?
    a shotgun maybe you only option[next to a rifle like a 303 or something similar for hunting]
    what should we who are less fortunate do?
    also skill with firearms is a major factor in any encounter with the undead,what if you were a novice or had never fired a gun before?
    shotguns are relatively easy to use and maintain for this reason because gun manufacturers know that they must make a simple,durable and often easy to operate weapon.
    and if you run out of shells could’nt you just grab your trusty machete off your back and continue on defending yourself

78. Albino on 06 Mar 2008 at 9:08 pm #

    Sean, you are completely right, if your not in the states a gun may not be the way to go. Now while i don’t know much about the UK, Canada’s fire arm laws i do know that double barreled shotguns are common. i know in Australia you can own a handgun up to a .38 so a shotgun probably would not be much of a problem.

    My recommendation is to go to the non ranged combat forum on this site. Its pretty informative. Once again my specialty is firearms, and maybe a ax for backup.

79. reid on 09 Mar 2008 at 4:40 pm #

    sean, in canada any onewith a rpal (restricted possetion and acquisition) can go to there local gun shop and buy an m4 or a glock with the right paper work. no full autos unless you have your 12.? permit though. or a fuger and a dremel :)

80. Albino on 11 Mar 2008 at 7:50 pm #

    Paul…
    your the one guy on this forum who overkills ME good man good man! if you can send me a link to where i can buy one of those things that would be great!

81. sean on 13 Mar 2008 at 6:06 pm #

    wow that was extremly informative….
    i want an AA12 now

82. Kat S. on 21 Mar 2008 at 3:07 am #

    Everyone makes a lot of good points. Of course, if all else failed, I suppose you could use the shotgun as a make-shift club if you ran out of ammo.

83. Puck on 27 Mar 2008 at 5:21 pm #

    Jumping in a bit late here, but I’ve got a couple of points I’d like to make in response to earlier replies.

    There was mention of a firearm not being your best bet due to ingesting airborne blood/organic matter. In response to that: have you ever seen someone cut or actually cut someone with a bladed implement? You are guaranteed to get biological spatter when using a melee weapon, there is no way around it. Walking through any number of zeds and coming out clean on the other side is most definitely Hollywood hogwash. You also have to take into account the type of critters you’re dealing with. While dismembering slow zombies with a sword or machete or even a humble baseball bat sounds like a great way to spend a weekend to me, taking on more than one fast zombie with the same weapons is a terrifying prospect unless one is a master swordsperson…

    I’m honestly surprised at the support for buckshot vs slow zombies. I see no reason why a slug shouldn’t be the round of choice for slow zombies. I understand the appeal of hitting multiple targets with a single shot, but I’d have to see concrete evidence that a single double ought pellet is enough to drop one for good. Personally, I’m in favor of slugs, and in the .410, 20ga, or 16ga varities. The guns and ammo are lighter than your standard 12ga fare, and lets face it: everyone is going to be passing over the smaller gauges in favor of the 12ga ammo/weapons. If we’re talking fast zombies though, the buckshot loads obviously go up in favor due to the increased difficulty to hit your target.

    The .410 carries with it the added benefit of a variety of ammo available. Most .410′s are capable of chambering and shooting a .44 (or .45, can’t remember atm) round so you can use that ammo as well. I’ve also seen considerable success with altering a .410 shell and removing the load without removing the powder/cup and then inserting an arrow shaft with the fletchings removed. The force generated is more than enough to kill a white-tail deer, so I presume it would be equally deadly to the undead masses. Of course that would be a last resort type situation and should never be attempted unless absolutely necessary.

    Yes, a shotgun has limited range, but that’s an acceptable trade off for guaranteed stopping power. Lets face it, if the zombie is too far away for you to kill it, its too far away to kill you. Run first, shoot second. Ammo is limited in the post-change world, lets not compound the problem by wasting ammo taking pot shots at zombies 300 yards away. If you’re mounting an ASSAULT against the undead throngs, then by all means, whip out your assault rifles. However, if you’re wanting to defend yourself and your friends/family from zombies, then a shotgun is more than satisfactory since it has more range than the enemy. I’ve personally shot 2 inch groups at 100 yards with slug rounds from a shotgun, and I don’t consider myself an exceptional marksman. Shooting at zombies any further away than that is just a waste of resources.

    For those of you that *have* to have a “reach out and touch someone” capability, Savage Arms (and probably others)has for years made a multi-barrel platform that includes the possiblity of a .223 over either a .410 or 20ga shotgun barrel. Its single shot, but its also extremely light and reliable and would make an excellent weapon with a higher capacity support weapon in reserve or carried by another person.

84. Albino on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:08 pm #

    Good god! Puck!
    Folks dont listen to this guy!
    First: there is only a few weapons that can chamber a .45 and a 410 bore round one is the Contender, yes having the capability to use spread shot one minute and a .45 the next is nice, but these guns are typically break barrel one shot weapons. The highest capacity would be 6 in the Taurus Judge. but this is NOT the handgun forum and i will not rewrite my opinion on that.
    a 410? i usualy use 410 shells for two things, shooting sqwab (pidgins and other barnyard birds.) and then plinking the shells with a .22 after. the fact of the matter is 410s do not have a ton of stoping power. Like i said i use them for shooting pidgins. as for a 16 gage, i have found very little 16 gage ammo in all the hunting and sport shooting stores i have gone to. 12 gage ammo is the most common, the 12 gage is the most manufactured shotgun bore in the world.
    DO NOT EVER PUT AN ARROW IN A 410 SHOTGUN! There is a reason that it is called a SHOTGUN not an ARROW GUN! even if you do take all the shot out of the gun you still have explosive gases and vapors that are trying to escape the barrel. if that arrow gets hung up in one little spot then the barrel can explode. these are not your BB guns that you can put a toothpick in and it will work fine. you are dealing with a very very exact science.
    as for slugs, well most people want to make a mess, and with slugs yes you will knock anything on its ass, but why risk missing if you can just liquidate something with a 12 gage volley?

    good luck to all of you when Z day comes, if you listen to people who tell you you can toss a pistol caliber and an arrow into a gun built for scatter shot… well you will need all the luck you can get.

85. Puck on 29 Mar 2008 at 8:27 am #

    Albino: I’m not suggesting anyone use a .410 in favor of a larger weapon, although I realize now that’s what it sounded like. Its been awhile since I shot one, but I know I dropped my first deer with a .410 slug (I was eight, not big enough for a “bigger” gun yet), so again I have to assume it would punch through a zombie skull as well. The arrow tip is also intended to be a last resort, out of ammo thing. There’s not an infinite supply of ammo you know. If you doubt the effectiveness, ask a Virginia Game Warden how many deer they see killed with this trick each year during bow season. Of course there are varying sizes of arrow shaft, and now that most archers have moved to smaller, carbon shafts perhaps this trick is no longer as prevalent as it used to be, but about 10 years ago it was all the rage amongst poachers.

    I personally know of at least four different .410′s that will chamber a .45 long round, and in a pinch even a .45 pistol round. Again, ammo is not infinite, and while I would much rather have a .45 pistol to use the ammo, if I have a .410 and .45 ammo, I like knowing I can combine the two and still have something more than a glorified club. Sure, in a perfect world, you’ll always find ammo for the gun you’re carrying, but if we’re postulating that its a zombie apocalypse, I think we can throw the perfect world scenario out the window, no?

    As to the availability of rounds, maybe its a regional thing. Here, all shotgun ammo is available pretty equally. Of course you see bigger loads like 0 and 00 more in 16 and 12ga, but there’s always a few boxes around for 20ga and .410′s as well.

    I’m going to stand firm on my preference for slugs over shot loads for slow zombies though. Depending on the gun, the bore, and the distance you’re shooting, shot loads go from devestating (anywhere from point blank to about 15-20 yards unless you’ve got a very tight choke in the barrel, then it extends to maybe 30) to 3-4 pellets striking the target. Depending on where they strike, and at what angle, that might not be enough to penetrate a skull. Yes, you might hit more than one target, and you might get a couple of pellets through the eye, and it might be enough to kill a zombie, but I don’t like “might” in a life and death situation. I guess it comes down to if you prefer the “spray and pray” method, or more precise (if slightly slower) shooting. Of course, I would only recommend slugs for a shooter that’s confident in hitting their target. If its a novice who’s never shot a gun, then by all means, load them up with buckshot, give them as much of a chance as you can.

86. Albino on 29 Mar 2008 at 3:30 pm #

    Puck, 15-20 yards, sounds like thats enough were you could just run from your “slow zombies”. and you said so your self, ammo does run out, slugs come less commonly then any form of scatter shot, and why use 00 buckshot? 10 steelshot will still destroy anything that is not made of metal. Because ammo is so limited why would you cut a 410 shell to use an arrow? it sounds really like a cool idea, I’m not sure how well it would work but why use one arrow when you can use a slug or shot?
    i hope your not accusing me of being a “spray and Prey” shooter. i do think some of your ideas are interesting and i am glad to see someone advocating the gun that many of us took our fist game animal with.
    i will retract the last part of my last post untill i have reviewed a little more closely your ideas.

87. Puck on 02 Apr 2008 at 9:06 am #

    I’m not accusing anybody of anything. ;)

    I guess it depends on the person, Albino. Personally, I’d engage anything less than 50 yards away, and avoid anything further than that. I’m sure the rules of engagement would change with experience though.

    I assume the use of buckshot simply because in my hunting experience, its the one shot load capable of breaking/penetrating bone with the density of the human skull. Smaller loads might or might not penetrate the bone and do enough damage, or you might get a shot through the eye/soft tissue at the temple. I could be wrong, though. Its been a long time since I did any comparative tests with different pellet sizes, etc.

    I think we can agree that small game loads in a .410 are going to be fairly useless against zombies, so you could use the slugs as .410 ammo, but convert everything else to shoot an arrow. After posting that though, I perused my local sporting goods store and I have to admit that the arrows of my youth seem to be a rare commodity now. This trick worked with the 80′s, early 90′s aluminum shafted arrows. Today’s carbon shafts are simply too small in diameter for this to work reliably. If you could find or had on hand a stockpile of the larger diameter arrows, though…

88. dread 61 on 11 Apr 2008 at 4:05 am #

    personally i would use a sks. the 7.62×39 would cause alot more damage than the 223. with a bag of 30 round clips you could hold them off from the top of the stairs for hours. since you can pick one up at the local gun shop for bout 300 bucks you would have alot of money left over for ammo to prepare for the upcoming fight against the living dead. (the 223 is more expensive than the 7.62×39 also)

89. Albino on 15 Apr 2008 at 12:57 am #

    Everyone here can take a lesson from ZombieNoob, not only did he present a new idea, but he backed it up with hard evidence and tried to stuff something BACK into my face. however he did point out exactly what i was trying to point out, yes the shotgun moves you more. but correct me if I am wrong (sorry I’ve never been a little guy before so im new to this) but does that not throw your accuracy off for the next round? I have noticed that smaller people get less shoulder bruises then big guys, then again i have seen a lot of people holding a shotgun the wrong way. usually it doesn’t matter how big or small you are if you have the proper form. ZombieNoob all and all good report but i would be careful with a .22 i have said it before and i will say it now we are talking about decomposing flesh, so it could go right through and not bounce off the back of the scull. but all in all its nice to finaly have someone i can have a discussion with. someone who is not just saying “i would want a 9mm because thats what all the Gangstas use.”
    either way look me up on Z day and we will compare shotgun to the 10/22.

90. Otacon on 15 Apr 2008 at 11:16 pm #

    I agree with the piont on the .22. Having a .22 rifle like the 10/22 suppressed or unsuppressed would be a good zombie gun. The ammo weight is also a problem. Living out in the country where our nearest nieghbor is 1/4 mile away ammo weight is not a problem for us because our house is probably where we would make our stand. but for someone in the city, if they need to bug out they would be able to carry 3 or 4 times as much .22 as, say, .223 or .308. And depending on your situation that is probably a good thing.

    whether or not the bullet would stay in the head or exit, keep in mind that in order to exit, it had to pass through some of the brain. Also, the .223 Remington would pass through regardless. Having shot a .22 countless times, i can tell you from experience there is little to none recoil or muzzle rise. This would be usefull for fast followup shots or someone new to firearms. The noise i feel would not be a problem, inside or outside. The only reason i would use a supressor is because it cuts down the bullet velocity, therefore increasing the chance of entering, but not exiting a Zombies head.

91. Albino on 16 Apr 2008 at 6:57 pm #

    you people do know that .22s will go through most soft tissue that a .45 wont because the bullet is going 1000 feet per second right? a handgun round is made to hit a target and spin inside the target cutting slashing and ripping. a .22 is for shooting a squirrel and other varmints. the 5.56 was made to KILL people so it works on the same princable as the .45, while it does not work as well. but if you want to knock something down then use a .357, it was made for one thing, to knock down tribal nations that were so stoned on some sort of drugs that the .38s would not keep them down. compaire that to a zombie, an extremely high, brain dead, person. A .22 simply will not bring down something like that. also i keep seeing people complain about “the ammo is too heavy.” or “i need 2200 rounds.” maybe two boxes of 50 will do the trick for a while. but we are talking long guns, so shotgun shells do not weigh that much, and they are compact, most backpacks have six slots on the front, those were origanly designed for shotgun shells. you can also buy belts, bandoleers and box pouches.

92. Otacon on 17 Apr 2008 at 12:19 am #

    Well, yeah. If i was in the perfect scenerio i would want a Kel-Tec SUB-2000, a pair of glocks, and a Buzooka. but i think we can throw the “perfect scenerio” out the window, again. i think that a .22 is a better all around choice, simply becuase of the ammo capability. Let me ask you, Albino. if you had a choice between 50 .45 ACP’s, or 500 .22′s, which one would you chose?

93. Platinum on 17 Apr 2008 at 8:28 pm #

    Albino, what soft-tissue are we concerned with? The paperthin forehead, or the paperthin back of the head? The .22 will penetrate the skull and bounce around, no doubt about it. The ammo is lighter, yes. A fine choice for self-defense, pistol or rifle. I have a Buckmark .22lr I’ll be keeping on the hip opposite my .45acp.

    The .45acp firing JHP will not only penetrate the skull (800-900fps) but will take a large chunk of said skull, fragment it, and use these new projectiles to add to the gray-matter carnage. I’ll take two.

    Something you guys are concerned with is the long arm of the law. When the shufflers come for the buffet, I’ll not be overly concerned if Johnny Law doesn’t like my silencer, or the little mods I’ll be making to the 10/22. Or the IED’s, or the punji-traps, or any other little defense mechanism I can come up with.

    If you don’t live in a country where possessing firearms for your own safety is illegal, perhaps you should consider who’s running your country and how to remove them from office. That will solve you firearm acquisition problem should the buffet become open for business.

    Paul Azinger, quote “THE ONLY WEAPON GUARANTEED TO PUT A PERMANENT HURT ON THE ZOMBIES IS A FULL-AUTO AA-12.”

    A .12ga is a .12ga, some just fire faster. This doesn’t make them better, or more accurate, just faster firing. In untrained hands, this is NOT a desirable attribute. 3-round burst was designed to combat the “hold the trigger down until the clip is empty” syndrome. Please don’t use the excuse that it has a bigger mag, I can put a 50 round drum on my .45, too. And the combined weight means I can carry two instead of one AA-12, with a 40rnd drum. (gee, more ammo, too)

    BTW, I’d still be carrying a shotgun, semi-auto, tactical, 10-rnds+1 in the pipe.

94. Platinum on 17 Apr 2008 at 8:34 pm #

    Oh yeah, and Octacon:

    Though your question was not directed at me, I’ll take the .45acp as a primary. Shufflers won’t be the only concern (looters, etc…)

    .22lr (pistol, or rifle) secondary. Same concerns, less knockdown tho.
    But better for adding to the larder once the FoodMart supplies go sour.

95. Otacon on 17 Apr 2008 at 8:43 pm #

    I’m not doubting there are better bullets for killing zombies, i’m just talking from a tactical standpoint where a less powerful gun with more ammo is better then a more powerful gun with less ammo. sarcasticness aside, i will probably be carrying a 10/22 with folding stock, our Taurus PT100 in .40 with spare mags, and absulutly a Winchester 1300 Defender shotgun, if for no other reason than for complementing my main weapons.

96. Platinum on 17 Apr 2008 at 9:06 pm #

    Just re-reading, in case I missed anything…..
    sure enough I did. I must have just completely bypassed this due to the massive amount of insulting drivel packed into one paragraph:

    Adam Robertson: yes the pump shotgun is slow but it has more fierpower a spats shotgun is faster rate of fire put less firepower (it’s the round, not the weapon…a semi, using blowback to eject/reload reduces firepower by a very small amount…still leaving more than enough to put brain-pate on the wall behind the zombie) you can upgrade shotgun to carry 25-30 rounds. the M4A1 rifle (edited – too stupid to quote) . you want a semi-auto or bolt-action rifle (unless you are sniping from range and a defensible position you don’t want a bolt action anything) the lee enfield, bar kar-98,the worst is the M1 garant (edit – it’s Garand…if you’re speaking English, not German, you should be a little more respectful on one the better rifles made), the best is the Gewehr 98. and if you have a problam you can (edit – too stupid to quote)!!!

    I won’t even deal with the unimportant mis-spellings, etc…

97. ZombieNoob on 18 Apr 2008 at 6:44 pm #

    Albino, you got it…me with a 10/22 and you with a shotgun = mucho spattered zeds.

    In real life, I prefer the M1A, but you don’t have to worry about zombies driving vehicles, taking cover and shooting at you, or hitting them at 500 yards.

    As to getting moved around, it doesn’t affect accuracy so much as speed. With a pump, though, it’s down out of recoil by the time the action is closed. With a semi, then you big guys probably do have a speed advantage. But I don’t like semi-auto shotguns Z-day. They can be finnicky about the ammo they like, and once you start scrounging, you have to take what you can find.

    I will say this… a little guy with good training and steady practice will beat a big guy who only has passing familiarity with his weapon.. Two equally trained shooters, the big guy has an advantage with the bigger guns. But he’ll still bruise more :-)

    Anybody else here shoot IPSC/USPSA 3-gun matches? This is a great way to find out what works for you and to improve your skill.

98. Albino on 19 Apr 2008 at 4:00 pm #

    Soft tissue, think about it, we are talking about DEAD WALKING DECOMPOSING CORPSES! i will put it to you this way, stab an orange with a knife, it makes a hole through and through, hit it with a baseball bat and it will spray juice and pulp everywhere. once again i would much rather pull a trigger once and have 12 .32 caliber balls liquidate a zeds head, rather then pull the trigger one time and fire one .22 caliber bullet it not bring the zed down and have to fire over and over again. why not gust get a 30-30?

99. ZombieNoob on 19 Apr 2008 at 6:44 pm #

    Oh, so they’re gooey?
    And it’s not enough to just HIT the brain, you’ve actually got to pulverize it? .

    I was under the impression a good anywhere in the brain would be enough…I mean…ever shoot a .22 hollowpoint at an orange?

    30-30 ain’t gonna help…and lever action vs. semi auto .22? Come on, get real…ever tried to load one of those things fast? Your entire thumb would be a raw bloody stump before the first wave was even over.

    OK, you know what would rock…one of those plastic whiffle ball bats with all the air slots cut in it…except made out of titanium, and with the fins sharpened.

100. ZombieNoob on 19 Apr 2008 at 7:34 pm #

     Oh, and if anyone really wants to practice….

     http://www.zombietargets.net

101. Albino on 20 Apr 2008 at 1:20 pm #

     i do load 30-30s fast, i competition shoot with them, and haven’t you ever heard the term “you cant shoot fast enough to win.”? you have to destroy the brain, and while your using all you can either poke hole after hole though a zombies head with a .22 or you can make it disappear with a 12 bore round.

102. naremfirestorm on 08 May 2008 at 3:05 pm #

     I agree with the comment earlier about the beretta fetish and i would personally prefer the fn five seven from fabrique nationale (the same people who make the p90) as a light weight handgun for easy carry.I would agree that the shotgun is not the best weapon in the world but if i had to defend an area against attack i would try to do this with a small reliable group that would be equipped with weapons for all scenarios and i think that in a group of 6 people having 1 or 2 sgotgubs would be essential for cqc especially in tight areas where the dead bodies would jam the zombies allowing an easier battle.also i think that if you have a look at the website http://www.firequest.com you would be quite surprised at the different uses a shotgun can have with the correct ammo.There is ammo there that is used as a flare for attention and even a flame thrower unit(though i would suggest this as the undead dont feel heat) alll in all a few shredder units in a shotgun could be devestating

103. naremfirestorm on 08 May 2008 at 3:09 pm #

     I agree with the comment earlier about the beretta fetish and i would personally prefer the fn five seven from fabrique nationale (the same people who make the p90) as a light weight handgun for easy carry.I would agree that the shotgun is not the best weapon in the world but if i had to defend an area against attack i would try to do this with a small reliable group that would be equipped with weapons for all scenarios and i think that in a group of 6 people having 1 or 2 shotguns would be essential for cqc especially in tight areas where the dead bodies would jam the zombies allowing an easier battle.also i think that if you have a look at the website http://www.firequest.com you would be quite surprised at the different uses a shotgun can have with the correct ammo.There is ammo there that is used as a flare for attention and even a flame thrower unit(though i would suggest this as the undead dont feel heat) alll in all a few shredder units in a shotgun could be devestating

104. Tom on 09 Jun 2008 at 4:19 pm #

     I aswell do not entirely agree with this article. Despite the fact that the rifle-type weapons are a better choice than a shotgun, regardless of their power, they aren’t my preference. This is because, While they may be lightweight, they are a bit large (most rifles are, that is. No doubt there are smaller makes) such that evasive action may be impaired by it’s length.

     What I would take is a simple handgun that isn’t even too expensive, something you can slip in and out of a pocket (or holster) and you can carry several magazines and several ammo boxes on you with ease.

     Handguns also make for a better quick-draw weapon. While they aren’t a rapidfire weapon, upgrades can be purchased to boost reload time. As for firepower, as mentioned in the article, the only thing required to kill a zombie is to penetrate its brain, which a handgun can do as easily as a rifle.

     Each To His Own, Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged.

     -Tom

105. residentmagnum on 12 Jun 2008 at 9:16 am #

     Don’t completly agree or disagree with you

     In WWI there was a modified shot gun known as the trench gun a 12 gauge shotgun with a bannet the barrle was similuar to a sawed off but it was ment for close range

     Also most of us would like to be the hell out of an area where zombies are devouring the living, but if they showed up and surprise many as they offten do then a close range weapon could do the job

     Yes smaller bullets do have their charm but a shot gun could decapitate a zombie at close range

     true the shot gun has a kick to it but it could be possible to go with a lower gauge like a 20 gauge rather than a 12 or switch from sluggs to buck-shot

     There are also double barrles and pump the pumps are faster to shot off but not as fast to reload as a double barrle

     If you had to when running out of ammo the shotgun could be used as a club the M16 and possibly the M 4 have plastic parts that normally much weaker than steal

106. SteveO on 07 Jul 2008 at 7:35 am #

     Yeah, but I recently saw this combat shotgun on future weapons… it uses 30 round quick-loading drums of several variations of shot gun ammo, from slugs and buckshot to impact grenades and more, and its highly accurate in shot to mid-long range combat.

     Also, you don’t reload a sword.

107. miles on 07 Jul 2008 at 5:00 pm #

     what you need is a nice AR plat form, HK or RRA preferably, use one of those new 150 round drums or if not that then a beta C drum loaded with Blended Metal bullets or just maybe 6.8 spc hollow points because you have to put them down right there.

108. Chris B. on 07 Jul 2008 at 9:34 pm #

     I agree with you about how the shot gun is not the best but I disagree with you on the best. The best in my mind would be the ak47. and this is why, first they are reliable as hell, so when the barrel and recever are filled with rotting flesh and other zombi parts the gun will still function. Second it’d make a nice close quarter wepon if your short on rounds (esecialy with a bayonet). And finaly they’ve got bigger bullets and a higher rate of fire so they can prety well punch a nice hole through the hords of the undead.

109. instruisto on 21 Jul 2008 at 3:01 am #

     You ladies ought to consider that when our ancestors faced the rise of the living dead they had no firearms whatsoever. The fact that we are here discussing the topic proves my point. Melee weapons are all that is needed provided one is well trained and in good physical condition, as all real men are. Only women, children, and vegans should lack the strength, stamina, and skill needed to dispatch an undead horde with a longsword, mace, or ax. I also see nothing in your article about these newfangled “firearms” that involves the tried and true aid of having one’s weapons blessed by a priest, edged with silver, sprinkled with holy water, or engraved with the name of a saint. Maybe it’s the lack of faith of this generation and its unfamiliarity with the long history and tradition of the war between the living and the dead that causes such anxiety about these matters. Our ancestors in the Dark Ages took such things in stride.

110. ZAC Admin on 21 Jul 2008 at 6:27 am #

     “You ladies ought to consider that when our ancestors faced the rise of the living dead they had no firearms whatsoever.”

     You bring with you hate, lack of reason, and flawed logic. Just because it was done a certain way through history does not mean it should be done the same way currently. By your logic soldiers egnaging in modern warfare should use spears and rocks. Give me a break.

     We should use every available modern tool at our disposal.

111. instruisto on 21 Jul 2008 at 9:39 am #

     Where’s the hate in following tradition?

112. instruisto on 21 Jul 2008 at 9:42 am #

     Hey ZAC Admin, are you an American? And if so, are you Southern? Your disregard for tradition in matters undead makes me wonder if perhaps you are Canadian.

113. ZAC Admin on 22 Jul 2008 at 12:00 am #

     “Where’s the hate in following tradition?”

     There is no hate in following tradition, but your delivery in this thread and others is sketchy at best, and brings with it a certain tension.

     Your logic is flawed because you claim that defense against the undead should be done according to tradition, completely leaving out any advances in technology that would aid in such a battle in current times.

     I am sure that if you were in the hospital today, you would ask to be treated with leeches instead of modern medicine because of tradition, that is what our ancestors did.

114. instruisto on 22 Jul 2008 at 11:17 pm #

     Leeches are used in modern medicine, proving once again that tradition is best. Thanks for making my point.

115. ZAC Admin on 22 Jul 2008 at 11:23 pm #

     Great, then…

     You can stick with your clubs and leeches. I will take a firearm over that any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

116. instruisto on 22 Jul 2008 at 11:30 pm #

     If you ever visit Houmas House Plantation outside Baton Rouge, Louisiana they have an undead combat kit on display. It includes a silver dagger, holy water, garlic oil, and crucifixes. Bear in mind that Houmas House dates from the mid-1700s, so it was built before voodoo, and presumably zombies, were a threat. However, the arrival of Haitian refugees from a revolt against the French by Toussaint L’Ouverture brought voodoo to Louisiana around 1797. The French were prepared for vampires and werewolves as well as zombies.

     A dagger. No AK-47s or robots. You’ve got to respect that, especially given that these were merely Frenchmen.

117. Mr.Death on 26 Jul 2008 at 2:50 am #

     I know the shotgun,I know it well,too well.It is an extension of my body.It would be my preferred weapon.One thing,you gotta aim for the head,the head of a scrambling zombie.Unless you’re Keith Webb,good luck with your AR-15.Even with lots of practice,it would be hard.But sorry guys,the dead are not going to rise,I wish they would,but they won’t.The gray alien takeover,that’s what you need to get ready for.And not even a bazooka will do you any good then.

118. Gregor on 03 Aug 2008 at 8:33 am #

     Well I have hunted in Canada’s arctic and subarctic for a quarter century now and have something to add.

     1) The 223 is not the pitiful round some would have you believe if you use soft-point ammo. I have hunted with Inuit and have taken or seen taken about a dozen caribou with the 223 I can conclude that up to 150 yards or so it has fair stopping power with the right bullets. 60 grain Nosler partitions or 64grain Win Powerpoints have an excellent combination of penetration and expansion and would drop a head shot zombie pronto as the expansion will create a destruction wave that would destroy the reptillian complex even with a close miss to that area of the brain.
     The lack of recoil of the 223 makes repeat shots fast and you can carry a lot of ammo. However I prefer a fighting shotgun.

     2) I have been playing with a combat shotgun for a while now and despite the above it is my zombie choice. I use a military grade 870 clone with a 12.5″ barrel and ghost ring sites. I use a tubular magazine rather than a box magazine and prefer it. The tube allows for continual reloading. I can top off the magazine while the gun is still loaded by slipping rounds with my weak hand into the tube. The continual rate of fire then can be limited only by the ammo I have with me.

     In the scenerio of being trapped in a house with Zombies coming at me If I can create barriers so that they are coming single or double file I could lay down enough fire to heap zombies ceiling to floor creating an undead wall of corpses to seal the entry.

     The advantage of the shotgun then is
     a) the continual feed possibility of the tube magazine.
     b) Knock down power…with slugs I am getting 2″ groups at 50 yards with my modified choke tube. Each slug will take much of the head off of a zombie or if hitting another area will break bones and create mechanical issues for the zombie reducing it’s fighting effectiveness
     I have a greater room for error with the supreme power of a shotgun slug. I’d carry 50 of these
     c) The advantage of buckshot is not for multiple targets….buck is best under 20 yards where it spreads enough to make precision a little less important but still hits the Zombie head with 3-5 pellets. At under 10 yards all or nearly all pellets will hit the head area and should completely wreck the brain. I’d cary 50 of these.
     d) ergonomics..a pump shotgun can shoot aimed rounds as fast as a semi-auto. During recoil the pump is operated and actually helps bring the sites back on line. They are quick to bring into action and balance very well.

     The only disadvantage of a shotgun is that the limit for me of 100 rounds of carried ammo plus 5 in the gun would make being trapped in a mob of zombies a bit of an issue. Realistically in most of these scenerios your chances are slim with any weapon choice. The knock down power, reliability and continual loading of the classic pump still make it my # 1 choice for bears on canoe trips and/or zombie infestations.

119. sharpie on 05 Aug 2008 at 7:34 pm #

     Ok I have to disagree with this. I’ve been shooting my whole life and although I wold not choose a shot gun as my primary weapon I would want someone in the group I’m with to have one. Specifically I would want a Remington model 11 hundred 3 inch mag with double ot buck and take the factory plug out so it has a 5 round capacity. Keep that guy in reserve for when things get hot and bring him out when you need to clear an are with semi auto fire that can liquefy a zombie.

120. Soup on 09 Aug 2008 at 9:15 pm #

     Honestly, the cross is the best weapon. Next to that is a shield and a
     spear in phylax as we have seen in 300.

121. Charlie on 13 Aug 2008 at 9:11 pm #

     Um, no, the biggest problem is the fact that its LOUD!
     You just bring more zombies towards you! The best weapon is a nice sword or other sort of cutting weapon.
     Its easy to use, no ammo at all, and quiet. And its PERFECT for lopping off heads, which of course is what you HAVE to do to ‘kill’ a zombie.

122. BadRobot on 14 Aug 2008 at 12:39 am #

     I believe what everyone is over looking in this arguement is “readily available.” most of the population is not going to have an assult rifle just laying around the house.

     It is the job of the citizen to be ready and fully prepared. Given the availability of those type of weapons chances are, you’re going to be few and far apart. Beyond that, going to Gander Mt. or walmart at most your going to find 200 rounds. That being said you must also remember that most shotgun rounds are not going to be lethal unless you are very close. I don’t know about the rest of you, but range is going to be my key to victory. I don’t want to be anywhere near a festering flesh hungering maniac.

     I would be think less about most effective and more about amount. I don’t care who you are, if you are being picky about ammo and weapons in a zombie infestation you’re already dead. let me pose this, Person A has 200 rounds for a .223, lets say it’s a mini 14 rifle. easy to get ahold of and very easy to use. if person as perfect he is at most going to kill 200 zombies. Person B ransacked the hunting goods store taking anything he could get his hands on. Sure he is shooting a shotgun, but he has a shit ton of ammo for it.

     Now after all that is being said. Lets think realistically you’re first concern is distancing yourself from high population, second is the ability to stay mobile. third is to set up for long term survival.

     Weapons should only be your concern if you plan on seeking them out. you greatly increase your chances of being biten. I think a safer plan is eliminating the ones that come to you, but keeping your distance

123. Sarek on 14 Aug 2008 at 1:50 am #

     Shotguns, pistols and bolt action rifles are the types of firearms that could be gotten easily from a sporting goods store. Between those the shotgun I think is the best anti-zombie weapon.

     When you suggest the M4 you get into the whole idea of going to a good gun store ahead of time to prepare for the Zombie Apocalypse. So if I were put in that kind of situation I’d look into a Kriss Super V submachine gun. It’s a 45acp in a carbine length barrel. Think of a tommy gun. The venerable old street sweeper. No one can argue that it doesn’t have stopping power. The Super V is a modernized version with much more controllability.

     Yes. A Super V and a chainsaw.

124. Jason on 14 Aug 2008 at 2:51 am #

     For the common citizen, I can’t recommend anything less than your run-of-the-mill .22 caliber, bolt-action rifle. Why?

     It’s legal, so you don’t need to hide it. Cheap ammo. Using the bolt-action will make you conscious of using every shot, so you’ll force yourself to get control of yourself and aim. Also, your ammunition is light-weight, allowing you to carry more than enough to aid in your escape.

     Of course, there is one issue with using a bolt-action rifle. What if the zombies get in too close? What if–somehow–you run out of ammunition? I suggest a backup weapon. My personal choice is either a machete or a crowbar. You don’t have to reload and they have multiple uses. Just remember: use your head–aim for theirs!

125. Beretta on 14 Aug 2008 at 4:32 am #

     Beretta Extrema II. nuff said

126. williamgilmour on 14 Aug 2008 at 5:53 am #

     thanks very much for informing me that an M4 is better than a shotgun but next time zombies attack i think ill go get my neigbours shotgun instead of running miles through aforementioned hordes of zombies to the nearest military/police facility to get myself tooled up. thanks anyway

     i would like to suggest that the M41 tank is a more effective weapon than the shotgun, it also is expensive and not stoked at your local wallmart but when it comes to your life, and the life of your family, friends, and loved ones, what is that worth?

127. Petey on 14 Aug 2008 at 6:47 am #

     I cannot believe you’re recommending the M4. The M4 is prone to jamming and sensitive to dirt — not what you want for a zombie uprising. An AK-style assault rifle is much more effective. In field combat with soldiers, the M4 wins due to its superior accuracy. If you can hit an enemy soldier from 50% further out than they can hit you, that translates to a big military advantage. When fighting Zac, you are not competing on whose weapon has a slightly greater accurate range. You want something reliable, easy to maintain, impervious to dirt, and preferably, cheap and easy to manufacture. That’s the AK family of assault rifles.

128. XyzzyB on 14 Aug 2008 at 7:27 am #

     The Styer Aug is the best of the gun-type weapons for fighting zombies. Easy to handle, compact, and very well designed.

     But you’re really must better off without any type of gun. You can only carry so much ammo.

129. beethovensprivateghost on 14 Aug 2008 at 7:52 am #

     Gentlemen, what we need is some perspective on the objectives of what we are trying to accomplish. As an ex special-forces officer of the infamous 4 Medical Battalion (Chief Staff Intelligence) of South Africa commanded by one of the most evil men alive, I feel I may have some insight to offer.

     There are only three possible scenarios – escape and evade, rescue civilians or a retaliatory massive zombie genocidal military action. The last scenario would be best accomplished by biological weaponry such as flesh-eating bacteria such as fasciitis necroticans or meningital strains capable of reducing brain tissue to mush. This is a long term solution but in the medium term civilians would need to be evacuated out of high population areas to quarantine camps in deserted areas – each civilian would need to be deliberately contaminated with Thallium to ensure that should the person become feral the nervous system would disintegrate within 3 days without the chelating agent keeping them alive.

     For search and recovery operations the troops would be best issued with AK47s for its sheer pull-down power. It may be necessary to sterilize cities using fuel-air cell bombs to generate firestorms and drive the zeds into kill zones.

     However, when the outbreak occurs, it would be counter-productive to attempt to be a hero and deal with zeds alone. Escape and evade is the only option. We all know that zeds are driven outdoors by their need to feed so a temporary shelter would be required for the first 12 hours. I personally intend using the sewer system as my initial bolt hole. Zeds are unlikely to come bumbling down it and can only approach from two sides. I would furthermore suggest that any group of survivors includes the weak and irritating (children would be my first choice) to use a sacrificial goats to slow the zeds and even fast movers will pause to join the feeding frenzy while you escape. It is important not to engage zombies unnecessarily and to rather avoid than attempt to fight.

     After the initial 12 to 24 hours with the zeds in the open we need to secure a more fixed base. Sky-rises with flat roofs for helicopter rescues would be the easiest to defend on a floor by floor basis. Elevators can be disabled and the stairwells barricaded. The water pressure would be maintained for some time by the weight of water in the pipes provided only a single designated tap is used and the apartments raided for supplies. Should the military infra-structure collapse and no help be forthcoming – you would need to hide in the skyrise for at least 40 days for maggots to render the undead incapable of movement. Fortunately the soft tissue of the eyes would be gone in a mere 5 days so the zeds would be blind. A rule of thumb – one day in air, with insects and heats causes as much decay as a week in water or a month buried underground.

     Good luck, we are going to need it.

130. Scott on 14 Aug 2008 at 7:59 am #

     ^ Shouldn’t you already have your gun of choice if you believe Zombies could be a serious reality in the near future. Whether caused by nature, science, or a wrathful deity. Get yourself a gun and a crowbar now.

131. NB on 14 Aug 2008 at 9:03 am #

     it really comes down to what type of zombie you are dealing with and the pure numbers; a shotgun is a very loud firearm and will easily take a man’s head off at close range– do you want a group of zombies at close range? (this is also a weapon that is relativity common, a + )

     the M-4 has stupidly small rounds, even a hit to the cranial cavity doesn’t guarantee enough of the brain matter is destroyed; you don’t want them getting up after the first take down. And the M-4 has a very tight bolt, long term use is only possible by one who understands the importance of upkeep the oils may become locate and stockpile. The AK-74 (semi auto*) with low velocity rounds that shatter upon impact, is not only easy to use, but the impact of the round accomplishes a similar effect upon entry as a shotgun blast. The rifle, itself, can take the daily abuse that an M-4 could never standup to.

     I would hope that anyone in a zombie situation would have to ever be so close to a zombie in such close proximity to require a shotgun (range for these, when dealing with zombies is always in question and dependent upon the the density and quality of the flesh.

     *one round should be enough to take down a zombie, there is no reason to waste one’s ammo stockpile on just one zombie.

132. Andy Jones on 14 Aug 2008 at 11:43 am #

     Weapon choice? FN FAL. semi automatic, accurate, reliable, doesnt jam like an m16, can function in any climate and doesnt use 5.52 mm rounds. best best is the 7.62 x 33. can load up at any hunting store, punches through pretty much anything and is more accurate than most assault rifles. fit that sucker with a scope and get a machete and your set.

133. Darren on 14 Aug 2008 at 3:13 pm #

     I think both the original article as well as the 100-odd comments missed a vital point when considering a gun choice in the event of a Zombie apocalypse.

     Readily Accessible Ammunition

     You need to pick a gun that most people will have ammunition for or that you will be able to find easily. All these gun discussions are all well and good, but answer me the question of what kind of ammo you would find the most of???

134. ricky on 14 Aug 2008 at 3:25 pm #

     a mossberg 590 12ga pump shotgun can hold 9 2 3/4″ shells. if you use the 1 inch shells you now have 23 rounds at your fingertips with very little recoil, less spatter, with no fatigue on you shoulder. most m-4 mags only hold 20 rounds. also, a shotgun with a stock is a weapon when it is unloaded. you cant say that about a plastic assault rifle.

135. AndyGusto on 14 Aug 2008 at 3:40 pm #

     As someone with little to no firearms experience, I’m going to reach time after time for a shotgun.

     You take the rifle’s maximum range into account, but what about the minimum range. When a mob of shambling zombies are standing at effective rifle range, are unaware of my presence, the rainbows are out, and Ice Cream Sandwiches are falling out of the sky, THEN I’d take a rifle. What is more likely is that I’ve got a 20 foot lead on a pack of ravenous sprinting braineaters who’s lust for blood is only second to my thirst for life. When I spin around wasting precious seconds to take a shot at the crowd, I want my shot to actually DO SOMETHING.

     The thing about destroying the brain is that you have to hit it in the BRAIN. Zombies don’t feel pain. If you miss with a rifle round, you MIGHT throw it off balance if you hit a shoulder or a leg. With a shotgun, you get a nice spread of hot metal beads that are likely to cripple a limb, throw the zombies in front off balance, and if one of the ones in front goes down, that buys you time as the ones behind it step over the fallen, or go around.

     Give the guys guarding your zombie free outpost rifles. They can use the range. When I’m headed in to town for food, water, booze and porno, I’m bringing a shotgun.

136. AndyGusto on 14 Aug 2008 at 3:42 pm #

     I guess my big point is, killing zombies is futile. You should always position yourself to have an escape route. If you are in a corner, you’re fucked no matter what weapon you have.

137. bigbill on 14 Aug 2008 at 9:28 pm #

     in my zombie and shtf scenario’s kit i have my ak 47 with a couple of 75 round drums and various 30 round mags. i have my mossberg pump with dual pistol grips and extended mag and a 50 round bandelier. i have a couple of 22. cal. semi rifles. i have a few handguns to include my 40. smith and wesson and a few revolvers. and last but not least i have a sword and a machete for close in work. i didnt even mention the 12 gauge doublebarrel coach gun or all the other various firearms i have but you get the idea. the one thing i’m working on at the moment is enough of a supply of ammo for each. i have had the chance many times to buy an ar15/m4 type weapon but have passed on it. i want my weapons to be reliable in the extreme and the ak style weapon fits that bill. i have never had one jam no matter what ammo i was using. as a matter of fact all the weapons i mentioned have been tested for reliability. i have had various weapons over the years and all that failed the reliability test were sold off. i believe its better to have a functioning weapon than a jammed stick.

138. Jack on 15 Aug 2008 at 1:02 am #

     As you have stated in your article, you should have more than one weapon. So why not both the shotgun and the M4? You can reduce the weight, and length of the shotgun by sawing off the extended barrel and stock, the shotgun should be used for the times when your clip runs out for your main weapon (a semi-auto rifle or a M-4, with the automatic fire removed, let’s face it, full-auto is only for wasting ammunition), and you do not have enough time to properly reload. Your secondary should be on hand is quicker than reloading. A shotgun is a weapon you do not have to aim right on the money, anywhere in the general area will do.

     The rate of fire problem has been solved by the A12 automatic shotgun.

     Ammo is plentiful as you can aquire it from any gun and hunting store.

     As you said you do not need to stop the zombie but the brain, the area of effect for the shotgun and sheer power up close is enough to stop a zombie in it’s tracks.

     There is no perfect weapon, having and being proficient with weapons is the key to survival in a zombie uprising.

139. DrPeterVenkman on 16 Aug 2008 at 5:32 pm #

     Get both like I have…. also an FN-Five Seven is a fine side arm.. Never been much of a Glock guy, but they do function & I consider them as good weapons no doubt, if i’d stray from my 5.7 I’d go .40 hydrashox 185grain federal. 1911′s may be old but they still function & ammo is pretty readily available & cheap, .45acp is a bit rock to throw. On the matter of shotguns, yes.. they are VERY easy to use, but more so… they are really easy to do your own custom loads. That being said you can be creative on what u’d like to waste a zombie or whatever with. Personally I think a combination of cut up TripleAAA batteries and 70/30 Potassium Perchlorate/Sodium or Potassium Benzoate, possibly a top load of pepper gel or foam. All are possibilities when you are not worried about liability. Honey is useful when loading to keep shot close together at 30yds+/-. Staggering loads is also useful /special/slug/buckshot… etc. As far as the M4′s are concerned. Please make sure you understand the dynamics of how long ur barrel is combined with rate of twist… i say this only because with those factors known you may better understand what grain of 5.56mm/.223 ur M4 will stabilize. Accuracy is ALWAYS better than power.

140. Arruniel on 18 Aug 2008 at 9:00 am #

     I think you have made a great point, but I feel that you have failed to mention two great weapons that have proven themselves again and again: the machete and the cricket bat. I am also disappointed that, not once, was a bayonette mentioned. We all know zombie riots always end in close combat with an exhausted supply of ammunition. The bayonette has long been used as a mainstay in situations like this. In fighting zombies, it is always important to keep you options open, if not a subterranean passage.

141. Fragwise on 27 Aug 2008 at 8:47 pm #

     In my opion the best weapons pack would be either the G36c or ideally the .308 SABR System along with the P2000sk of the same caliber. These are compact weapon systems designed to deliver a punch; and the best thing about the .308 SABR System is that it comes with an alternate upper for sniper use.

142. ryan on 29 Aug 2008 at 12:45 pm #

     I do not agree at all. Look up AA-12 on youtube.

143. Luke on 11 Sep 2008 at 9:04 am #

     What about the PS90. its a good PDW

144. zomblast on 12 Sep 2008 at 6:58 pm #

     i did not read the entire set of reply’s, so if anyone brought this up, kudos to you. but when the dead walk among us one more time the weapon you will absolutely need is the M-1 carbine/ M-1 rifle. the M-1 is easily available, the range is good, the accuracy is good, silencers can be easily made and it is sturdy, it was made to survive the largest conflict in history, so keep one on hand, also, if you have a 22. rifle or pistol, just put it all in a back pack and happy hunting!

145. -- on 28 Sep 2008 at 7:05 pm #

     Alternatively, if you happen to be the president, nuke infested areas to the ground.

146. Jack on 03 Oct 2008 at 9:19 pm #

     For a zombie outbreak I’d use the following weapons, I know it would be weighty but let’s just assume weight isn’t an issue here…say you have a vehicle or are not traveling far. The Kryss as I believe it’s called. A new SMG that’s being field tested for the US Special Forces. It’s a .45 caliber SMG that has quite low recoil…lower than the HK MP5 PDW and great accuracy, I’d also have a Remington 12 gauge shotgun as a backup weapon. Powerful enough and reliable enough for desperate situations. As i said though this would be a backup to my SMG and my Sidearm, a Colt 1911 .45 Cal. Yes I know it has a limited clip but it’s quite powerful and accurate to ranges that would be suitable for a zombie invasion. Not to mention it’s legendary durability…the 1911 is a gun that has been proven time and time again in nearly environment.

147. noah on 11 Oct 2008 at 9:34 pm #

     i both agree and dissagree with your article the standard pump and semi automatic shotguns are slow to load and shoot at times and is not the best firearm to dismantle the living dead but when you dont have the military precision to make every shot a head shot. the shotgun allways makes a good handycap for people and again it is not the best weapon however a russian arms maker called izhmash has created a very nice civilian model shotgun that is magazine fed called the saiga-12 based off of the ak-47 rusiion version it can be outfitted with a 20-round barrel mag made for all of your zombie asskickery needs. some have even converted their saigas to fullyautomatic

148. noah on 11 Oct 2008 at 9:53 pm #

     and of course range is an issue and seeing as not many types of zombies can return fire when you shoot them i dont truly see range as an issue unless their about to nibble on your ear. now im not saying there arent better anti-undead weapons for civilian use but shotguns are handy when you need to put down some of those annoying undead neighbors of yours.
     there are also other things about the shot gun to take into account most shotguns can fire slugs and they are the only gun i know of that has the capacity take down multiple targets with a single round and it has the power to nock the dead back enought for you to aim that next shot unlike rifles that more often then not blast right through the rotting corpse without slowing it down all that much.

149. noah on 11 Oct 2008 at 9:57 pm #

     and bringing firearms like the AA-12 and automatic saiga 12 like the tromix-8 and other custom firearms like it you have the potential to unload a cloud of lead into a swarming crowd of the undead either killing or maiming anything in its path that is the extent of my yammering ary for taking up so much space

150. Cypher on 30 Oct 2008 at 1:21 am #

     Sorry if this has all been said before, i didnt feel like reading all 160!!! comments. Blah.

     Couple things.
     Shotguns rule (Speaking from personal experience gained from a few self defense situations).

     Second, gauge. Firing hundreds of rounds through a twelve gauge..will indeed wear anyone down. But there are other..lighter..gauges. .410 is a great way to practice. And usually ou will find more 20 Gauge ammo instead of 12 gauge.
     Im a big guy, I own a 12 gauge mossberg 500 that is pistol griped..no stock. I can accurately empty all 6 rounds from the hip to a range of 15yrds and have cut a standard ‘hostage’ target in half with it, using slugs, at that range.

     Thats the third thing..slugs. They increase the range and single target ability.

     Fourth thing, as someone mentioned, ammo choices. I personally keep a box of 20 of Defense-Tec’s TKO (Door breaching) rounds. They will open a door instantly. And somethings getting through a choke point fast will save your life.

     Fifth thing. 00Buck..is OVER RATED. I will agree on that. Standard 2 3/4 Inch 00Buck has 7 or 8 (Depending on if its ‘low recoil’ or not) .32 Caliber pellets inside of it. I make custom loads that have 3 00Buckshot rounds at the center with #4 Buck packed around it. Really deadly pattern. The ‘center’ of the pattern is those three nasty 00Buck pellets, but the rest of it is those #4′s. Taking out one..ANYTHING is highly improbably. Youll hit things behind/beside anything you aim at.

     Sixth thing. Shotguns dont compete with rifles. Never meant to.
     If the outbreak ever happens what would I carry? First my twin 1911A1′s that have been customized for combat. Then my mossberg in a scabbard that goes on my backside. Then an either my AK-47 or my M4 in my hands. It depends who, if anyone, is around me. So basically, not trying to brag by the way, but its best to TEAM up a shotgun with a long gun. That way they can compliment eachother. A rifle wont have the same punch up close that a shotgun does and a shotgun will not have the long range accuracy that a rifle will.

     Seventh thing, magazine fedness. Magazines are nice on shotguns..sorta. Theres that whole Knox Sidewinder that fits to Remmies and Mossys that gives them a 6 round box or 10 round drum. But you wont be finding those anywhere much in an outbreak scenario so youd have to make sure to keep your empty magazines.
     As for others like the saiga..youd still have to keep track of the magazines. Another good one is the Valtro series (Check em out, they make MEAN pump action mag fed shotguns). But theres a problem..a magazine…defeats the benifit of a pump action!

     With a semiauto shotgun you cannot get the same variety of ammo, especially…MID FIRING. With my pump action mossy, I do have a sidesaddle that carries 3 more of my custom 00/#4 Buck combo shells, 2 Copper Saboted Slugs, and a single TKO Round. After I fire a round, I can (And so can everyone if you practice the move) slide in one of those slugs into the chamber by ‘half pumping’ the weapon. Despite the fully loaded tube of 00/#4 Buck shells. Its called hot loading because you are physically loading a shell into a hot chamber by hand.

     The result is amazing flexibility almost immediately. A magazine..removes this flexibility and reduces it to whatever you had loaded..or you have to reload.Meh

     The eighth thing. Once a shotgun is empty..its not..done. Get a bayonet adapter and get a typical M9 Bayonet. If you have a mil spec civvy M4 (IE: Everything like the military version just semi auto. Including bayonet lugs) then you now have two weapons you can use it on.

     A ninth thing. A under spoken item. A duck bill. You need a gunsmith to PREP the shotgun barrel by putting two metal tabs on each side. Then get a peice of pipe that fits PERFECTLY over your barrel’s end (NOT COPPER for goodness sakes). Smash the end, making sure a 00Buck pellet can still fit through the gap. The HOPEFULLY still circular shaped end, cut two slots shaped like L’s out so you can slide the duckbill on and TWIST it to lock it on.
     The result when you fire? Horizontal disperal. Do that at the head level of ANYTHING (Including zombies) and watch the bodies drop.

     And a final thing. Masterkey systems.
     Honestly they are best done with a semi-automatic for ease (Rem 1100 or 11-87) but yeh. Anyone compotent with mechanics can make you a mounting system. A metal shop will produce a better item. The result? Long range punch of a M4 (OR AK. Yes it can be done with an AK too) with the shotgun right there in one weapon. You get all the benifits and the penalties (other than extra weight of one weapon) cancel either out for the most part.

     Yep thats about it..

     Cypher

151. Mark on 01 Nov 2008 at 5:41 pm #

     I completely agree with this article. I’m a person that’s in decent shape and a shotgun is not my weapon of choice. If anything, it is a weapon of last resort. Some say, “just practice and reload time on a shotgun would be fast.” Well that’s somewhat true, but has that person ever shot a shotgun in real life? Yes, the automatic shotgun is flippin awesome, but how many of us regular people can actually get one? I really don’t recall walking down the street and coming across one. And having a hord of zombies coming at you and shooting them isn’t easy with a shotgun. The average shotgun around has maybe have a capacity of 8 shots before reloading is needed. And along with having a “pump-action” shotgun just makes it even more difficult. Most shotguns people own right now are hunting shotguns which have long ass barrels, and yes, even unloaded they are still heavier than an M-4 or any other semi-auto carbines. Don’t let the video games and movies fool you. Go to your local gun range and rent one about and see if it’s really something you’d want during a zombie invasion. It’s an ass load of upper body work with some running added in. In this situation, speed, accuracy, and efficiency is your best friend. Not full blown power. Sure, practicing reloading and shooting with a shotgun can make you better, but why do that when the simple carbine is a more efficient option. In other words, why work harder when you can do it the easier way.

152. Mark on 01 Nov 2008 at 5:52 pm #

     also, lets be a little more practical here. None of us are going to have a prototype weapon like the kriss or and grenade launcher sitting at home. Get yourself an AR-15 or AK before Obama gets elected. That’s more practical due to the fact that there are several of these weapons available for +$300 (mostly speaking of the AK in terms of this price). Does anyone really have the AA-12 (That automatic shotgun). Think, if a zombie invasion were to happen literally today, would you be prepared? And running off to the local gun store and getting yourself a gun is easier said then done. After you get one, you gotta zero out the gun cause not too many gunsights are zeroed out. Also, ammo. How will you carry it? Can you carry it? Are you in shape to run miles and miles as roads are blocked off by traffic and cars abandoned? Gas for the cars. There are so many factors to look into that everyone is over looking. Just really think that if it were to really happen right this moment, would all these prototype weapons be readily available for you to use and would you really be physically able to fight off an invasion? Don’t let these video games and movies fool you. We ain’t all Rambos.

153. Scaryalbino on 03 Nov 2008 at 2:23 am #

     Mark, i like how you don’t dismiss the shotgun but do say to just know your weapon. As for me, i have thought about this carrying ammo thing for a long time. Even with ammo belts and box pouches, its going to be tough. thats why i would say the most your are going to be able to carry, the most i would carry would be 150 shotgun rounds, thats six boxes. i know i can do it because i have gone on long camping trips in the woods with six boxes before. the other thing that i am thinking of is where i live, i live in a rural area, i have about 8000 people in the nearest urban setting. in my town, cows outnumber the people. so unless zombie cows are a possibility (cant see cows getting much more brain dead) i don’t have much to run from. so running is not a huge concern for me. as for shotgun vs rifle, i dont care if you are using a damned bb gun, if you can keep zombies dead, use it! I do know im going to be using a shotgun, and as much as i would love to use a double barreled, probably more likely to see me with a nova pump.

154. Spencer on 26 Nov 2008 at 3:53 pm #

     “AK-47 when you absolutely positively have to kill every motherfucker in the room accept no substitutes.”

     Reliable, easy to use, durable and it can survive being used as a club. Ammunition is plentiful, cheap and portable. If you get a civilian legal model it also doesn’t tempt one to waste ammunition.

155. Taylor Void on 30 Nov 2008 at 9:43 pm #

     ok

     my main dis agree ment with this is about the reloading

     sure it’s easier to just throw a fresh mag into a handgun or assault rifle

     but

     your forgetting the fact that you can load one round into a shotty and fire

     so say your in a barracaded room and their getting in

     ones comming throught the door as your trying to reload all you have to do is finish putting that shell in and blow his head of and continue loading

     with a magazine fed gun you can’t do that

     you’d be loading and ones comes in and you can’t the mag in all the way……

     oh look

     your dead

156. Derek on 01 Dec 2008 at 10:16 pm #

     disagree entirely

     the shotgun has many benefits, from power to ease of use to accuracy.

     as for round capacity and reload time, try a USAS-12. 100 round drum or 30 round clip. bit bulkier than the normal carbine but a modified version with a shorter stock will do fine. you can reload it just as fast if not faster than a M4.

     to hit the brain, just shove some 00 buck in it and spray, something will connect. if you disagree with buckshot as a means of destroying a skull (it has range issues, but 00 buck is perfect for closer quarters and clearing buildings), go with a traditional 12 guage slug. the slug can also breach locked doors, something you might waste up to 5 rounds from an m4 doing, if you can even breach it with the m4.

     the USAS-12 can fire rounds almost as fast as an m4, and given the amount of lead you can throw at zack, you could argue that it is much faster.

     certainly if working in groups i wouldn’t say it should be standard issue, as slower, lighter, carbines or assault rifles usually are best. the ak 47 is much better than the m4. the ak 47 is one of the easiest rifles to operate and clean along with being the most reliable. it weighs more than the m4 but the m4 would probably snap in half if you tried to melee a ghoul in the head with it. the ak 47 would smash the head of the ghoul along still having enough momentum to hit 4 or 5 more.

     alas, i digress. DO NOT rule out the shotgun. if it is a skeet shotgun, leave it behind. if you have a USAS-12, never let it leave your side.

157. SAPPER on 02 Dec 2008 at 8:37 pm #

     I have not read all of the posts so this may be redundant: I agree with the lack of capacity issue with the shotgun but disagree with rate of fire. You mentioned the Remington 870 12 gauge. A fine weapon. I own the Express Magnum version in Black. For a few extra dollars though, one could opt for the semi-automatic Remington 1187. Capacity is still an issue but for extended stand offs in a barricaded scenario it would be a moot point. How many boxes of ammo can you fit in your house? Also it should be noted that shotgun rounds are quite easy to reload and could be loaded with a variety of projectiles if worse came to worse. It may be easier to obtain powder and primers than ammunition when the panicked masses swarm the gun stores for weapons and ammunition.

     The shotgun I agree in NOT the weapon of choice. I would arm myself with the notoriously cheap and shoddily built but prolific and battle proven AK-47. It seems a clique choice but as a Veteran of OIF I can attest to it’s fortitude. Semi automatic would be best. 30 round magazines and a Surefire weapon mounted tac-light. Backup weapon Model 1911 .45. Hand held weapon: machette.

     Keep it simple and stick to common calibers of ammunition.

     Side note on 5.56 or .223. This round is a notorious WOUNDING round. The heavier 7.62 or .308 is a proven killer. As we all know wounded zombies are no less deadly and a lot nastier to look at.

158. Zed's Dead on 03 Dec 2008 at 4:50 am #

     I’ve read about half of the comments so far (sorry, but many are quite lengthy and it’s 3:21 AM here. I need to continue training for the inevitable Z-Day), and I’m surprised that so many believe that the M4 is not the ideal way to go. I happen to own an M4 and let me tell you, that gun is amazing.

     First of all, Kain8719 made a good point about guns with full auto fire wasting ammo too easily. M4s are not available to the public in full auto, only semi-auto.

     As for the weight, M4s are deceptively light. I own 3 different types of shotguns and none of them are as light as that M4.
     M4s come standard with a 30 round magazine. I have a holographic sight on mine (courtesy of friend that was in the marines several years back) and with that I can bulls eye a target from 200 feet away nearly every time. Assuming we’re dealing with the run-of-the-mill zombies that shamble along (not those damned 28 days later ones) 200 feet is ample time to take aim and put down 20-25 zombies, reload, and go again.

     I certainly have more practice than the average citizen with fire arms, but I am in no way a “sharp shooter.” With the holographic sights, it’s basically just point and click. A novice could be shooting with 75% by the second clip (results may vary in stressful situations). Making it quite ideal in those situations where you need that not-so useful party member to take up arms.

     Lastly, the recoil on the M4 is almost unnoticeable. I’ve fired 120 shots in a row and was non the worse for wear afterwards (until i accidentally touched the barrel. apparently friction causes heat. who knew?). The round is also much quieter when fired (you can comfortably fire the M4 without ear protection. do NOT attempt that with a 12 gauge) so you won’t have to worry about drawing so many zombies with the noise should you be forced to fire. On that note, M4s are silencer capable (though not legally sold to public) and shotguns are most assuredly NOT silencer material.
     Oh and as for destructive power shotguns aren’t as devastating as you would be lead to believe. Now if you’ve loaded slugs, there’s nothing short of a Barrett Anti-material rifle that can match a shotty, but if you’re loaded something like bird shot, you probably won’t even slow down the undead target. Not too distantly in the past a certain Vice President shot a certain old man in the face. The old man lived. If you can’t even take out the elderly with a headshot, how are you going to subvert the shambling horde? Now I’m sure buckshot will do just fine, but that’s a much heavier load with even more kick and seems harder to come by. Additionally, if you have a novice grab the wrong type and then hands you some bird shot for a quick reload, you’re going to be mighty surprised when your shotgun doesn’t even phase your assailant (though I’ll agree this is a hypothetical scenario and not a fault of the gun itself).

     So, the M4 is high capacity, high performance, easy to use, quick to master, light and versatile (i forgot to mention the adjustable stock and shoulder strap that allows you to always have the rifle ready at a moment’s notice). What’s not to love about it? Keep your shotty, I’ll be up on the roof with a six pack and smile on my face as I pick off zombies one by one.

159. machinegunwilly on 04 Dec 2008 at 3:06 am #

     The shotgun is not a poor chose at all. try typing in sagia in a search. I can not stand it when someone simply dosn’t have the fact’s strait. the sagia 12 is a shotgun with up to 30 rounds of 2-3/4 buck shot. Is developed as a semi-auto AK vareint that can fire faster than the foremenchined M4 peace of crap. The Sagia can be bump-fired with ease, and can put near 1000 steel projectiles in the air in less then 3 seconds. I know because I own one myself.

160. ZAC Admin on 04 Dec 2008 at 7:29 am #

     The shotgun is not a poor chose at all. try typing in sagia in a search. I can not stand it when someone simply dosn’t have the fact’s strait. the sagia 12 is a shotgun with up to 30 rounds of 2-3/4 buck shot. Is developed as a semi-auto AK vareint that can fire faster than the foremenchined M4 peace of crap. The Sagia can be bump-fired with ease, and can put near 1000 steel projectiles in the air in less then 3 seconds. I know because I own one myself.

     You are actually missing the point. The average, John Doe, neighborhood person is not going to have access to a 30 round semi-auto AK variant shotgun, nor would they be able to use one under pressure.

161. Russian Wizard on 05 Dec 2008 at 10:46 pm #

     The M4 and the AR15 are terrible rifles for this scenario. First off, like may have said there harder to use since the shot is concentrated, and they are more prone to jamming. The real rifle to use is the ak47, because it can withstand firing hundreds of rounds without the need for a cleaning.

     Also a shotgun could be useful to have in situations when groups of zombies are coming, and ammo is more scarce. A few shells can do a job that a 30 round clip would do in a much shorter time.

     If you do build up a collection of guns, stock it with many different types of guns, ie. Rifles, SMG’s, Shotguns, and Pistols. Snipers are useful in some situations, but if your in an urban area, don’t bother.

     Personally I’m buying about 5 AK47′s, A Druaganov sniper, Various shotguns, a few 9mm pistols (Newer, magazine based pistols) and maybe a .45 pistol. :D

162. Jeff on 12 Dec 2008 at 1:56 pm #

     What about the AA12 gauge? Its fully automatic shotgun that can hold up to 30-35 rounds in a single drum!! And it can hold mini-grenade shells or armor piercing rounds. I would pick that over the M-4.

163. chris on 15 Dec 2008 at 4:17 pm #

     Honestly, I don’t see why you recommended the M4/AR15 variant. There are far more rugged, simpler, not to mention cheaper rifles that will make do for the average citizen. I’d take a reliable firearm that kicks like a mule and is at least decently accurate over an M4 any day of the week.

164. Lord O War on 16 Dec 2008 at 2:54 pm #

     Shotguns will work in terms of morale, might feel good to get a shotgun kill, but they are not practical for me, and are a last resort weapon, I would use one if I came across it in the killing fields, but I would not train to standard with one, too many things could go wrong at its effective range. Splatter, battle fatigue, etc….I plan on playing shadow games, stickig and moving, engaging when it is necessary to get my family safely from one place to another, we have a nice little refuge in the woodlands of Upstate New York, within 30 miles of the St. Lawrence and If I am close enough to a zombie where a shotty would be effective, then I have failed miserably. Weight is Everything, I see people talking about they would carry a sub along with a shotty and 2 handguns, that could get ugly after a few hours, with you actually contemplating leaving something behind. I would stick with a .22 rimfire (ruger perhaps) and a Beretta 92 fs(9mm), along with my personal favorite Beretta CX4 Storm, which is a pistol-caliber carbine(9mm). I want my handy and carbine to use the same ammo, considering what my mission would be. The combat, tactical vest you use (A MUST) must also be FIELD TESTED. These are the weapons the I have been training with. Plus at least 500 rounds(9mm) and 500 22. The load of this package maxes about at about 25 pounds. This will be my combat load, and I will have many more rounds and weapons in roving storage(traveling vehicle).

     ….As a Soldier, I’ll tell you right now, after carrying an M4 with me for 445 days straight in The sandbox, I would NOT recommend that weapon or any of its variants when the Walking Dead rise. The maintenance alone, along with its negligible what I would need to do to keep the weapon functioning is counter-productive and is reason enough to discount this weapon. There are too many things that I am going to have to worry about while traveling. I will be abandoning San Antonio, and methodically making my way Northeast. Im guessing at some point along the our vehicles will become non-functioning and I am preparing for that very real possibility that I will have to hump for many states… AK is also no good for me because the weight is counter productive. At 5’11 and 145 pounds, I can carry about 60 pounds with full tact gear for 15 miles at a time, thank you basic training. Thats my two cents. Heaven help us if the zombies come…With a steady hand and swift feet I will deliver mine enemies that are the walkind dead unto you.

165. Chris Atkins on 20 Dec 2008 at 8:43 pm #

     Shotguns will work in terms of morale, might feel good to get a shotgun kill, but they are not practical for me, and are a last resort weapon, I would use one if I came across it in the killing fields, but I would not train to standard with one, too many things could go wrong at its effective range. I plan on playing shadow games, stickig and moving, engaging when it is necessary to get my family safely from one place to another, we have a nice little refuge in the woodlands of Upstate New York, within 30 miles of the St. Lawrence and If I am close enough to a zombie where a shotty would be effective, then I have failed miserably. Weight is Everything, I see people talking about they would carry a sub along with a shotty and 2 handguns, that could get ugly after a few hours, with you actually contemplating leaving something behind. I would stick with a .22 rimfire (ruger perhaps) and a Beretta 92 fs(9mm), along with my personal favorite Beretta CX4 Storm, which is a pistol-caliber carbine(9mm). I want my handy and carbine to use the same ammo, considering what my mission would be. The combat, tactical vest you use (A MUST) must also be FIELD TESTED. These are the weapons the I have been training with. Plus at least 500 rounds(9mm) and 500 22. The load of this package maxes about at about 25 pounds. This will be my combat load, and I will have many more rounds and weapons in roving storage(traveling vehicle).

     ….As a Soldier, I’ll tell you right now, after carrying an M4 with me for 445 days straight in The sandbox, I would NOT recommend that weapon or any of its variants when the Walking Dead rise. The maintenance alone, along with its negligible what I would need to do to keep the weapon functioning is counter-productive and is reason enough to discount this weapon. There are too many things that I am going to have to worry about while traveling. I will be abandoning San Antonio, and methodically making my way Northeast. Im guessing at some point along the our vehicles will become non-functioning and I am preparing for that very real possibility that I will have to hump for many states… AK is also no good for me because the weight is counter productive. At 5’11 and 145 pounds, I can carry about 60 pounds with full tact gear for 15 miles at a time, thank you basic training. Thats my two cents. Heaven help us if the zombies come…With a steady hand and swift feet I will deliver mine enemies that are the walkind dead unto you.

166. tidas on 21 Dec 2008 at 11:17 pm #

     To be honest my weapon of choice for a zombie attack would probably be my .357 or even my .22 the .357 has a pretty good stopping power and from my shooting it has a pretty big wound both entering and exiting but the .22 you have a small enterance with no exit which means the brain is mush also the .22 i own has both 7 and 14 round clips which are pretty easy to reload plus since the .22 rounds are so small the amount you can easily carry on a single person could be in the hundreds or i could also go with my tommy gun which has a 150 round drum which would come very much in handy

167. tidas on 21 Dec 2008 at 11:23 pm #

     also since both the .357 and .22 both come in rifle and handgun forms you only have to stock up on one type of ammunition which leaves more room for other things you might need for survival

168. zombie survivor on 23 Dec 2008 at 3:53 pm #

     To each their own when it comes to anti-ghoul weaponry. However, I must add that in my opinion, I would be VERY VERY hesitant on relying on a rifle for the following reasons.

     First of all, forget a .22 It just will not do, we are not hunting varmints here. You’d be more successful using that weapon as a club.

     This is a serious matter, your life WILL depend on what your packing, so, forget what your favorite gun is, forget whatever training you have and any bias associated with that. In the zombiepocalypse, its a whole new world and this means new rules about how to survive.

     There are several things to take into consideration when choosing a weapon when facing hordes of the undead.

     1) Conservation of ammo: There are two ways of immobilizing the undead. a headshot. Not just any headshot will do, you have to either separate the brain from the body, or hit the medulla oblongata. Not the most easy target to hit. We are talking about hitting a triangle with the eyes and nose being the three corners of the triangle. Most of us are not sharpshooters, and I would imagine that battle stress, fatigue, and little training would make most people poor shots. The other way of immobilizing a zombie is taking away their means of locomotion. This means massive blunt force trauma to the arms and legs, you don’t necessarily have to go for amputation, anything that can disable the hips, knees, ankles shoulders or elbows will do. You have to be a proficient marksman to be able to do this, and it will take more than one shot. At the very least you will have to use 4 shots, one for each appendage, and even then you are not guaranteed 100% success.

     What I’m saying here is that Rifle ammo (in the calibers needed to do this type of damage) is big, heavy and would be relatively hard to come by in a “zombiepocalypse” I would guess for every 5-10 shots fired, you would get one downed or killed zombie. The best rifles for this would have at least 30 round mags. .22s, “tommy guns” and hunting rifles are worthless. You would have to roll with an assault rifle with AT LEAST 6 30 round mags. You can expect 6-3 kills per mag (that is 36 to 9 kills per trip outside the wire if you are carrying a full combat load) This is BEST case scenario. You better be competent in your shooting, and confident in your ammo supply. So, if you are sitting pretty in a zombie-proof fortress and have an excellent amount of ammo and supplies, then you better hit the range and become an excellent marksman, because you will need that training to handle the type of assault rifle required for the army of ghouls at your front door.

     Summary: A rifle is a good choice ONLY if you are well trained, well prepared and have enough resources to sit pretty though world war Z.

     A pistol should always be carried as a secondary weapon, however do NOT roll with anything less than a .40. You need stopping power. These things will not drop and say “owee!” if you nail them with a 9mm. If you are using a pistol, you are already in a bad situation. You will need a larger caliber sidearm. You better have at least 2 spare mags, and remember, that last bullet is for you.

     Shotgun. This is the ideal weapon for the majority of us and I will tell you why.

     1) Most confrontations with zombies will be at 30 yards or less, your chances of hitting a man sized target at that range with a shotgun (even with little training) are excellent.

     2) Even if you miss center mass, you will hit an appendage. Shotguns are not nice weapons, they will dislocate joints, break bone and sever limbs. Remember, this is what you want, your not looking for a kill shot, you are looking for a stopping shot, who cares if the zombie is still animated if it is flopping around on the ground like a fish out of water.

     3) Availability of ammo. In the USA, the most common type of ammo that can be found is shotgun ammo. It is cheap to produce, and thanks to us being a nation of hunters and sport shooters, the ammo is everywhere.

     There are downsides to a shotgun, they are prone to jamming, so don’t mess with anything other than a pump action. The don’t carry much ammo, but reloading is easy. Use bandoleers and ammo pouches to insure you carry enough ammo. They are bulky, but they are sturdy, use your shotgun as a club until you can get enough room to reload.

     Summary, Both types of weaponry have their positives and negatives. The one thing you HAVE to remember is that you are on your own, and there are thousands of undead waiting out there. I would suggest that you have a shotgun, it will be very reliable.

     Personally, my main weapon would be a pump action 12 gauge. Preferably one with a foldable stock. I would also carry some type of assault rifle. but I wouldn’t count on that for my primary. I would mostly be using that for distance shots. For my side arm, I would have an semi-auto .40 or 45, whichever I could get my hands on.

     And the final weapon I would carry with me. A baseball bat, or an asp. Something that will break bone and knock down those buggers. You will never have to reload a big heavy stick.

     Good luck and stay safe.

169. blarg on 01 Jan 2009 at 11:43 am #

     I like both weapons, so i cant really choose… Although im more partial to rifles.
     There are quite a few makes that i find i like, so i might try and list them here:

     Rifle:
     Colt M4A1
     AK-47
     Steyr AUG

     Other weapons(mostly only situational):
     M249 SAW
     any type of flamethrower
     SPAS 12 shotgun
     AWM
     Barret M82

     My preffered gear would be…

     Any of the above stated rifles
     A backup from the second group
     A suitable pair of handguns + ammunition
     A club

     for a location, i would probably pick a large walled castle/fort, with a large group of people.
     possibly with a helipad… and helicopter…

170. Heidi on 16 Jan 2009 at 4:16 pm #

     I didn’t read all the comments, this is amusing. My comment is: If the shotgun has a fancy Ontario M9 bayonett attached, you’re much more likely to survive the scenario listed in #2.

     Also, having a shotgun is much better than having no gun.

171. JosyMol on 18 Jan 2009 at 10:32 pm #

     Hi. I just found my new favorite place right here. This is a Great site !

     Okay;
     When the time comes to Survive the most inevitable horroriffic event in human history, the pending Zombie Outbreak, one must remember that one single weapon will never be the perfect weapon. Selecting only one weapon as your weapon of choice in an event of such horrible magnitude will lead you to a near certain death. Actually having a shotgun only or having a semi-automatic riffle by itself will pretty much make you dead meat at certain point. If you for any reason need to abandon your weapons and keep only one, I have to say, as insane it may sound, keep your handguns/pistols. When it comes to survive an event of such magnitude you should definitely carry a shotgun for close range combat and a semi-auto riffle for medium & long range combat, and a pair of handguns/pistols for close to medium range and also because if you get crippled and can’t carry your other weapons any longer, your hanguns/pistols may save your life; each weapon complements each other.

     Having said that, I notice that lots of the folks that posted comments for this weapons-thread are not really as prepared as they think they are. I mean you need to be real. Realistically most of you (including me)don’t have a fully-automatic m4 riffle or an AA12 fully-automatic shotgun under the mattress, do we? Neither a rocket launcher, a granade launcher, a tank, machineguns, etc. All of you that are dreaming with being able to equip yourselves with all them exotic weapons like magic, are dead meat already. Layoff the pot. You aint going to find such weapons unless you are so lucky to have a military truck loaded with weapons crash across the street of your house and that none of the soldier in there survive the crash. Thats 1 in a trillion odds/chances. The truth is that only a few civilians have access to them class III type of weapons and the other ones would be military or law enforcement personel. Don’t fool yourself, if you know that all you really have right now is a bb gun.

     Also don’t forget that in a Zombie Outbreak your scenarios will be all unique and you will face many different threats if you survive as days go by. I personally believe in my theory that there will be extremely fast Zombies like in “Dawn of the Dead-Remake and 28 days later” in the beggining of the outbreak. People that turns into Zombies will be able to move and chase you at their maximum former-human speed during the first 48 to 72 hours of the transformation. Once the corpses starts to decompose and the muscles starts to contract and get stiff and rigid, then they will be dramaticaly slower than in the first couple of days of the transformation.

     So we will see extremely fast Zombies at the beggining of the outbreak and as days go by they will get slower and be like the original Zombies in “Night of the Living Dead and Dawn of the Dead-1978″. That creates a lot more problems because many survivors of the first wave of attacks will think after couple of days later that every Zombie will be now slow. But the problem is that everytime someone new turns in to a Zombie, they will also be fast at least for the first couple of days. Many will be fooled by this fact and their own judgement and will be surprised by a fast newly turned Zombie. Don’t forget about this and that I warned you about this when the Zombie Apocalypse comes.

     Again, remember that Zombies will be fast at the beggining and they will slow down after a couple of days, but any new victim that turns in a Zombie offcourse will be as fast as you can be at least for the first couple of days, so stay alert at all times.

     Okay, so lets be real to the fact that there is no such thing as a do-it-all weapon of choice and to what you can really buy, have and should use in the days of the upcoming Zombie Wars.

     ZOMBIE SURVIVAL KIT- Artillery

     1> A 12GA PUMP-ACTION SHOTGUN;
     The first thing you must have in your Zombie Survival Kit’s
     Artillery, no matter what, is a loaded 12 ga Pump-Action Shotgun
     with a pistolgrip & without a stock with at “least ” 100+ shells of
     00 Buckshot to survive the first wave of attacks. Notice I
     recommend a pump-action shotgun without a stock & with a
     pistolgrip instead of a semi-auto with a clip or drum. Why? For
     various reasons…

     A) Your shoulder will still be healthy after shooting down +100
     of the undead with a non-stock shotgun. You will need your
     healthy shoulders to climb up or down an (emergency) ladder
     or rope leading to a roof or to be able to carry your backpack
     or other weapons. A sore shoulder can cost you your life &
     others.

     B) You can reload & shoot one shell at a time if you happen to
     run out of ammo in the worst moment while being surrounded
     by Zombies. That’ll give u time & create some room one shot
     at a time while you reload more shells, something you can’t do
     if you have a semi-automatic shotgun that uses a magazine or
     drum.

     C) With the 00 Buckshot you can blow Zombies’ heads off, blast
     them to push them back to create an opening if you failed to
     keep yourself in a safe place & at a safe distance(going in a
     Zombie killing spree might get you ‘un’dead, survival is your
     main goal and not killing as many as you can before you die.)

     D) You will need a shotgun to open locked doors, locks, gates,
     and to fight any group of thugs/looters you will encounter or
     that tries to get in to your safe place to get your stuff(a 22lr
     won’t work here). Just the sound of a pump-action shotgun
     pumping a shell in the chamber/barrell alone(shiih-shiihh) is a
     scarry thing for any living human.

     E) In the event that your barricaded safe place gets invaded
     with the undead and they start to climb up the stairs, one shot
     will have multiple hits and you can create a Zombie-corpses
     barricade (legless Z’s have a hard time with stairs) and gain
     extra time to escape thru an alternate emergency route you
     should have planned.

     F) Also the ammo for a 12ga shotgun is very common, easy to
     find in big quantities in any sporting stores &/or in many
     now/then Zombie-owned houses. As for slugs, if you can find
     some or have some stored use them, as they will help you as
     well, especially in medium range combat. But don’t just
     substitute buckshots for slugs, since you can cause more
     damage with buck and they have more practical uses than
     slugs. There are so many other uses for a shotgun that it is a
     must in anyones Zombie Survival Kit’s Artillery.

     I own and recomend a Mossberg 500A 12ga Pump-Action Shotgun
     with a pistolgrip without a stock that holds 6 of 2 3/4″ & 3″ shells.
     It can be shot from your hip, shoulder level & even with one hand
     (if you really have no choice). This shotgun is very easy to use &
     manuver with in tight places, plus it will save your shoulders.

     2> A SEMI-AUTOMATIC HIGH POWER RIFFLE;(AR-15, AK-47…)
     Another weapon you’ll NEED in your artillery is a good reliable
     semi-automatic riffle such as an AR-15, AK-47 type. There are
     many different brands & styles to choose from that most of us
     can afford. Lets be real. You are not gonna find a fully automatic
     riffle under your bed, at least most of us won’t! Besides full-auto
     will leave you without ammo faster than counting to 20. I mean a
     full-auto riffle can shoot one full magazine in a few seconds & only
     hit one or two targets out of 10 and they could be non letal shots,
     unless you are a trained proffessional. Still asking Why a Semi-
     automatic riffle ?…

     A) A Full-auto riffle will waste precious ammo. But a semi-
     automatic riffle in the other hand gives you the option of
     placing your shots in a target without wasting ammo and you
     can always shoot rapid fire if you need to.

     B) Besides giving you the ability to save ammo you can
     engage your targets at a safer longer distance.

     C) Just like the Shotgun you can find ammo for a common .223
     rem AR-15 very easy in most Walmarts, internet, gunshops &
     even the battle grounds. In the other hand it’ll be a little
     harder to find AK-47 ammo in your battle ground or your local
     Walmart.

     D) A regular AR-15 chambered for a 5.56 Nato/.223 Rem is
     easy to handle & shoot and the ammo will be more than okay
     to neutralize any relentless dead machine, even at far range
     as long as you hit the spot.

     I personally agree that an AK round hits harder than a common
     AR-15 .223 round, but we are not trying to hit & stop a living
     person with bodyshots. The point is hitting the head/brain and at
     long ranges on a moving target it will become more harder to hit
     with an AK. Thats why I preefer and recomend the AR-15 over an
     AK. You can install many accesories on an AR such as a flashlight
     (in case you have to run inside of a dark building/room), a frontal
     vertical grip(for increased accuracy in multiple consecutive shots),
     sights, scopes(to clear an area from the distance before moving to
     another area/place), slings(for easier carrying), laser sights(for
     even more accurate shots), nigh vision scopes(to do some plinking
     at night or to save your azz if they get in your place in the
     middle of the night). You can also install a 37mm FLARE
     LAUNCHER that shoots flares, flash, gas, smoke, shells and even
     shotshells,(if you need light in a dark room or area or if you need
     some smoke, etc., its around $300), and many other helpfull
     accesories that you can not install on an AK. You can modify an AK
     to accept only some of these accesories but its a lot of work & $$.
     You will spend a lot of money just modifying an AK for that
     purpouse, when all that money could be used to buy the accesories
     itself for an AR-15.

     And about an AR-15 “getting dirty faster” than an AK-47 and
     causing malfunctions, just keep a snake bore cleaner & a REM-OIL
     can in the backpack you should be carrying and you can clean it
     when you are safe to do so(it should’nt take you longer than 5
     minutes, remember you are not going to put it in a showroom
     display so you dont need to really shine & polish here). Plus ARs
     don’t get dirty that fast, only after many several 100′s of rounds
     have been shot. Don’t let Ar’s haters or AK’s lovers fool you with
     their scary tales. If having to clean & mantain your weapon/AR is
     a problem or a concern, get a Piston Conversion Kit from Adams
     Arms or Bushmaster and install it in your AR-15. That’ll give your
     AR the reliability of an AK-47, but you’ll keep the superior
     accuracy of the AR, you won’t have to clean it often and the
     problem is solved.

     I own & recomend the following semi-automatic riffles;
     first a SIG-556 SWAT rifle semi-auto gas/piston sistem chambered
     for the 5.56/.223 rem(is the best choice); an AR-15 Bushmaster
     XM15e2s M4 chambered for the 5.56/.223 rem(I am saving for the
     Bushmaster Piston Conversion Kit and the 37mm Flare Launcher);
     an AK style Golani Semi-Sporter for the .223 rem cartridge; and in
     3 weeks Im paying off a layaway for my S&W MP15 5.56/.223. A
     DPMS Panther Arms AR-15 in 6.8 caliber and a 37mm Flare
     Launcher will be my next purchases.

     3> A SEMI-AUTOMATIC HANDGUN/PISTOL;
     The next weapon you must have is probably the most important
     and the most overlooked one, a handgun/pistol. Although it is
     more like a secondary weapon, it should be consider as your
     primary weapon. Why is so important?…

     A) A handgun/pistol is very easy to carry and it does not weight
     too much, even if you have lot of weight with magazines,
     ammo, backback, food, long guns, etc, they wont take
     too much room & don’t weight as much as a riffle or shotgun.

     B) In the event that you become exhausted from running and
     fighting and you can not bear the weight of your shotgun &
     riffle, you will still have something to fight with, while you
     escape the danger. You can come back another time to
     recover your other guns if you have to and if is safe to do so.

     C) In the event that you get a twisted or broken angle, you
     might not be able to carry your long weapons and with your
     handguns/pistols you won’t be defenseless.

     D) I you are forced to swim across an area to escape for
     your life, you will probaly loose your long guns, but you can
     still swim with your two handguns clipped to your belt.

     You can also easily find ammo for handguns/pistol and they are
     affordable by most of us. They are lighter than a riffle or a
     shotgun and they can be shot by pretty much anybody with
     hands & fingers. They are also affordable to almost everybody. I
     recommend at least 2 handguns, one in each side with several
     magazines for ea. For example I have a 9mm & two 22lr pistol.
     A good Sig-Arms, Berretta, Taurus, S&W, Glock, etc in 9mm-
     45ACP and a 22lr pistol will keep you alive for a long time.

     Both ammo calibers are affordable and easy to find. A good
     brand box of 500 22rl bullets costs around $13 and you
     can buy 100 9mm ammo for around $18. A 22lr pistol is great
     because they dont weight as much as a 22lr riffle and the 22lr
     bullet is still effective at close to medium range, plus they are so
     affordable in huge amounts that you can have a lot to keep your
     gun loaded for a long time.

     My Sig-Arms 22lr Mosquito Pistol is a semi-auto that
     holds 10+1 rounds and my other 22lr pistol is a semi-automatic
     Kel-Tec PLR22 with a 27+1 capacity. Handguns/Pistols are
     necessary for your survival.

     Don’t leave you house without them !

     4> KNIVES & BLADES;
     Another important things you should carry are; a nice long sharp
     machete, survival knive, a katana sword, a battle axe, and
     although not in the same category as knives a good ol’ chainsaw
     in your vehicle or safe place could save your day. Remember that
     knives don’t need to be reloaded. You will need them in case
     you have to mobilize to the woods, you can skin and cut that deer
     you hunted, to cut ropes, meat, electrical wires, or if you’re like
     McGyver, you can build a bomb or a time machine.

     There are many other weapons you should or could use but basically you should not go out without #1>a pair of handguns, #2>a shotgun, #3> a semi-auto riffle.

     Pick just one “weapon of choice” alone and you’ll soon be dead or should I say undead?…
     Don’t forget, your first and main goal is Survival not Fighting!

     And also carrying to many weapons on your own will make you tired, so be wise and select only what you can carry(one of each type of weapons) without making yourself a heavy-easy target, unless you can get them all in your transportation/ vehicle. If you decide to stay in your house and use it as your safe place, then you will have everything at your disposal and you should quickly get every weapon and magazines loaded. But remember that if you live in a high populated area that will mean more Zombies trying to get in your house/safe place. So know your area and potential safe-grounds/hides and have a city and state map(don’t depend only on your GPS, it wont work once the charge is gone and there probably won’t be electricity), along with the basic stuff like matches, lighters, food, water, gasoline, etc.

     Remember there is not a one do-it-all weapon to embrace as a weapon of choice. But in the event that you were forced to pick or leave some of your guns behind, make sure you keep your pistols!!!

     If anybody wants to see my Zombie Survival Kit- Artillery/Weapons, let me know and i’ll post a link and a video on youtube for you.

     P.S.
     To the guy that said that he would use kids or the weak team members to cowardly save his own azz… Based on your patetic coward attitude saying that you would sacrifice little kids and people, makes you a psychopath killer and someone that could not be trusted. If I was in your team or if I came across you and I saw yyou throwing a kids or people at Zombies, I would personally shoot 4 shots. One in each arm and one in each legs and I’ll watch them Zombies ripping you appart and then one more last shot to make sure you wont come back as a Z. Now, if you were in my team you would be the one considered the weak and disturbed that would cause myself or my team to die. You would be easy to identify and considered a threat to me and my team and you would be disposed off at my first chance. One BOOM!. “Opps, I thought he was a Zombie guys…” .

     Nahh… Im just kidding man. You’re allright ! I would be the first one to hand you over my little kids. Their names are Winchester and Remington and they are 9 and 5.56.

172. NiK on 20 Jan 2009 at 11:01 pm #

     What about the AA-12 Shotgun? It’s fully automatic and has it’s own magazines and stuff.

     Look it up on youtube. There’s a 6 minute video showing a guy loading it and testing it on a firing range.

173. JOSYMOL on 22 Jan 2009 at 3:02 pm #

     OHH, Come’on ! Are you really telling me that you will get a hold of an AA-12 Fully Automatic Shotgun that easy? That type of weapon its even hard to find in the Military. These are not widely available or in the same quantities as other class 3 weapons like an M4 or M-16 or other weapons. If you are really counting on a weapon you do not have and that you probably will never be able to get, you will certainly die in a couple of hours of an outbreak. Again, unless you somehow own one.

     If you say that you do have an AA-12 Shotgun already and that you plan on using it in a Zombie Outbreak, then thats a different story. But just dreaming that you would out of nowhere find an AA-12 in the middle of a Zombie Outbreak, its ridiculous and a joke.

     If that was the case, since it seems that we can use imaginary things we dont have, I will then use a Military tank when the inevitable Zombie Outbreak happens. And yeah, I will use Rocket-Launchers, Granades, an Airforce Jet with missiles, a blackhawk helicopter with miniguns(even though I dont have one and I dont know how to fly it), I will hide in a military Bunker(that just poped out out of nowhere in front on me)) and I will find and save a group of 10 woman that will turn out to be super extremly hot pornstars that will be extremely gratefull to me because I saved them and they will live the rest of their lives, day and night trying to please me, while everybody else deals with the zombies, armed with AA-12s, until we get extracted to a safe place by the Military Rescue Teams. Then everybody will look after me and beg me to be the new President. Thats what I would do and thats what will happen.

     I am glad Im no good at sarcasms….lol. To answer the question about the AA-12…

     An AA-12 is without a doubt a very imppresive weapon. But you wouldnt go after a fly with a shovel, when all you need is a fly-flap, right. A weapon like an AA-12 will make you feel like playing Grand Theft Auto with infinite ammo. You will run out of ammo faster because one will tend to shoot more and faster, wasting precious ammo. For Zombie crowd control I recomend a pump-action combat shotgun, because the pattern of the shot will be better than that of an AK-style shotgun like the AA-12. Full auto shooting means less hits in the target while using more ammo. Unless you are at very close range or are a real badass with it, but that requires lots of trainig and practice, if possible.

     Great weapon, yes. To fight living humans like against gangs, a war in the army, but for Zombies, not in my inventory. Good luck!

174. dude whats up on 25 Jan 2009 at 5:21 am #

     Dude if you dont have an AA12 shotgun just use a saiga 12 shotgun and convert it into a gatling shotgun by modifing the body to use a belt fed clip an voila you got a fully automatic gatling shotgun. Easy to find can be easily built and cheap.

     Oh and yeah if your going to say about carrying an ammo box around ,no problem just strap it to the side or back of your body and the only minor problem is that you have a box of ammo on you but it could save your life cause you won’t have to reload after 200 rounds.
     P.S. the ammo box weighs at 20 pounds not that heavy

175. dude whats up on 25 Jan 2009 at 5:32 am #

     I have an AA12 fully automatic shotgun i bought it from my uncle 1 year ago on my 22nd birthday for 5,000 dollars and i live in Oregon so its not illegal. he got it by trading an M4 with a voltor stock, laser sight and some other fancy add ons to the gun

176. JOSYMOL on 25 Jan 2009 at 9:18 pm #

     Hi . Can you post a video of your AA-12 please under your username used here(so we can find your video)on youtube and post the link here. We would love to see your shotgun.

     In my comments above, you will notice that I specifically say that if one owned one AA-12, it was a different story than just not having one and planning on using one in a Zombie Outbreak scenario. Its like me saying I will use an Army tank; I dont own one, so how come I am counting on one? You get it?

     About the practical use of an AA-12 in a Z-Outbreak; It will be good to have one AA-12 if you are staying inside your house and planning to fight and refuge yourself in your barricaded-house and stay there no matter what. That way all the +400 pounds of ammo you’ll need will be readily available to you, but otherwise you aint carrying that much ammo needed on foot, I dont care how strong one thinks might be.

     It’s just not possible to survive with only a 200 rounds-box of ammo, and if one have to move because your house is no longer safe, you wont be able to carry with you all the ammo you’ll need to survive. Plus you wont have time to pack your stuff in an emergency like that with 100 Zs around your house and several 100′s more coming. Dont get me wrong, this is an awesome weapon and can do a lot of dammage but you can only carry so many rounds with you. It’s not all about one weapon and its ammo. You need to be able to carry different types of weapons on you and their ammo for different types of combat situations, plus you need to have the ability to move, dodge, run, walk for miles, and to deffend yourself. You dont wanna go around carrying 2 huge ammo boxes with 400 shotgun shells in your shoulders plus your AA-12 shotgun that requires both hands and dont leave room for anything else. You might find yourself trapped in a rooftop or in a high place and armed yourself with only an auto-shotgun and a couple of boxes of ammo its a bad idea. You’ll be unable to neutralize Zs al long to medium range because your weapon sucks at long to medium range. You will use all your ammo trying but accomplyshing nothing. You need at least 3 different weapons.
     #1. A pair of Handguns from 22rl-45acp- (in my case a Semi-Auto Makarov P-64 chambered for 9mm & a Sig-Sauer MOSQUITO chambered for the 22lr round-so I will never run out of ammo with the cheap 22lr bullets).
     #2. A Semi-Automatic High Power Rifflelike an AR-15, AK-47, Sig556, etc.-(in my case a Semi-Auto Sig556 chambered for the 5.56 NATO / .223 Re. round and if I have room and can carry an extra riffle, also my M4 Bushmaster model- XM15E2S A2M4 with 11 magazines, which are 5-magazines of 40 rounds capacity ea, and 6-magazines of 30 rounds capacity ea that equals 380 + I ordered 6 magpull magazines which are backordered, but once I get them I will have 17 magazines with a total 560 rounds ready to shoot + all the extra ammo I can carry in my backpack(probably close to 1k extra rounds)
     #3. A 12ga Pump-Action Combat Shotgun like 870 remington or a Mossberg 500(in my case a 12ga Pump-Action Mossberg 500A Combat Shotgun with a 3″ barrel, a pistolgrip and no stock, with day/night green sights).

     This is why I recomend a pump-action shotgun instead. You dont need magazines, you dont need to reload your magazines and then your weapon. It takes longer to reload your magazines and then insert them in your weapon and be ready to fire again, than with a pump-action shotgun. With a pump-action shotgun, if you run out of shells in your shotgun, while a Zombie spots you and starts to come at you fast, you can load one shell at a time and shoot in an intense dangerous situation like that, or to create room, extra time to load more shells or a necessary instant kill. Try to do that with a magazine fed shotgun and you’ll get eaten. You would have to release the magazine, grab your shell, put it in the magazine, insert the magazine back in, charge your gun and then shoot that one shell; then you would have to do it all again to load just one shell. See the difference and the disadvantage?

     The other disadvantage you’ll get with an AA-12 is that unlike a pump-action shotgun, you have a full size weapon. With a pump-action shotgun you can find many sizes and styles, like a combat shotgun which is very short and has a pistolgrip with no stock for easier handling.

     I will try to post a video on youtube soon that I did and I’ll post the link here, so you can see what I would use in a Z-O scenario.

177. LongNguyen on 29 Jan 2009 at 7:00 am #

     shotguns are not that bad to use against zombies. massive head trama = brain gone. but than again its limited rounds do hinder alot. As for the .223 or 556, ive heard great and bad things about them. great being if you did score a headshot the round is so….bouncy it would bounce around in the skull and cleave anything in its way. I’ve heard stories from my drill instructors about them shooting insurgents in the chest only to have the round hit the ribcage and bounce all the way up to the brain and exiting out the eye. BUT the bad thing i heard is that its sometime so bouncy it will hit the skull and instead of going through itll do a uturn or some crazy shit. i know tons of people have said it before below me, i’m just saying this incase anyone didnt =).

     signed
     fellow zombie killer =)

178. Bill Hager on 31 Jan 2009 at 9:03 pm #

     Who in the world can afford an M 4 or enough ammo to feed the animal.The AK 47 is the most reiable weapon on the field of battle today.You can buy ammo for this weapon at any Gun Show by the thousands.You can also buy the AK and extra Mags there as well.
     A couple other rifles you could concider is The Ruger Mini 14 ,(223)
     The Mini 30(7.62×39),Iver-Johnson M-1 Carbine(30 Caliber)and the SKS (7.62×39)which can be converted to hold the AK-47 mags.
     Pistols , Any quality made 9M.M. such as Beretta,Ruger,Smith&
     Wesson,Glock are just few exsamples.The 40 Calicbers made by the
     same companies will work just as well.For myself I like the Colt 1911
     45 acp.for the knock down power.All these weapons are reaible and easy to maintain.
     A couple other weapons that would work on Zombies are the Iver-
     Johnson Enforcer (30cal.))and the Tec-9(9M.M.) ,Both can hold a 30
     mag.,If you can find them.
     Know matter what weapon you buy stock up on the ammo.You could be on your own for very long time.
     The most important you need to do is take your weapon out to a range sight it in and get use to handling it.

179. Sharpshooter on 03 Feb 2009 at 12:31 pm #

     i will stick with my 30-06 bolt-action. slow reload but then again its not ment for heavy fire. im not an up-front-get-in-your-face-combat kinda guy. ill stick behind and cover you while you make a run for it. im fast on my feet and a damn good shot. a good way to help with adrenaline and stress levels is get a few buddys and see who can reload the fastest. and make it like super pumped up like start shouting and shit like that. makes the adrenaline pump you know? it may not compair to like say a zombie trying to rip your face off but it helps you learn what it feels like to be under a certain ammount of preasure just an idea though

180. Sharpshooter on 03 Feb 2009 at 12:33 pm #

     although i wont turn down the option to take up a shotgun as well…. never hurts to have a little extra fire power…

181. ZombieMovieMaker on 03 Feb 2009 at 10:28 pm #

     With 192 Responses, I’m sure my response will be redundant, but here ’tis:

     TOP 5 REASONS to USE A SHOTGUN:

     1. Ubiquity: Shotguns are a common phenomena in the contiguous US, if one were pressed by necessity to find weapons, the most likely items to be found would be shotguns, hunting rifles, and 9mm handguns. Not everyone lives next door to a military outpost. Shotguns are the choiciest option

     2. Avaliability of Ammo: Shotgun shells are the simplest ammunition to produce and many shotguns are capable of shooting a variety of loads from the same barrel, whereas most weapons are chambered for a specific caliber; over-reliance on a specialty weapon would be a dumb idea given the lack of resources in a zombie-crisis.
     MOREOVER, shotgun shells can be RECYCLED, even by hand if need be. BBs or ball-bearings can be inserted into used shells and gunpowder can be extracted from other rounds or made/found. Mechanized reloaders can be portable ammunition factories and a resourceful person could make 500 extra rounds a day, AK users would have to find their specific ammunition and the gun would be dead weight after a long enough period of time.

     3.Margin of error: A shotgun, especially a sawed-off one, need not be operated by an experienced marksmen to be effective enough to allow time for an escape. Combined with availability, this makes a party of even the least formidable survivalists likely of a successful escape.

     4.Adaptability: Saw the end off for close encounters, or file the inside of the barrel and add a scope for long-distance stopping power. Shotguns also boast an absurd variety of ammo, not only in caliber but in use. Fire slugs to disintigrate a Zombie, or load shells with the flaming chemical compound ‘Dragon’s Breath’ to ingnite a group.

     5.Low Maintenence: Most Shotguns, like all rifles, need to be broken in, assuming one has one’s own or took one from farmer joe–this need not be an issue. Most importantly, the vast majority of shotguns are manufactured for varied consumer use, and their mechanisms are not complicated in comparison to automatic rifles. The casual user has a better chance of learning to adequately maintain their weapon over a complex machine gun–which would require substantial training.

     BOTTOM LINE: The Average Joe has a better chance of survival with a shotgun. The advantage of an automatic weapon would be exhausted in the short-run assuming there is not easy access to ammunition. The Shotgun survivalist will make up for its short-term disadvantages in the long run.

     (Response to original 5 not-to reasons given unlimited resources)

     1. 10-20 rounds is not too shabby considering the stopping power a shotgun has, and the potential for a saw-ed off shotgun to stop multiple targets.

     2.Reloading is surely the shotgun’s crutch, but given that magazines need to be pre-loaded themselves and are as bulky as a bag full of shells, its not as bad as it seems. Also, there is currently a fully automatic shotgun available that has magazines of 30 and 15 shells.

     3.Rate of Fire: the Beretta Xtrema2 can cycle 12 rounds in less than 2 seconds. The automatic shotgun will cycle rounds as fast if not faster.

     4. (See point 4 above). Not everyone is capable of hitting the brain in one shot. Shotguns could be given to children (and they do make shotguns for kids) and they could incapacitate zombies without much experience. Moreover shotguns can be rifled to hit long-range targets, hunters know this.

     5. Ease of Use: Semi-auto shotguns have notoriously low recoil, and shock-absorbers can be added to the butt of the gun. Moreover, green ‘skeet’ shells use a significantly lower amount of powder in them, lowering recoil, these could also be used.

     Replies appreciated, Great post ZAC admin.

182. Angryvikingman on 08 Feb 2009 at 2:25 am #

     Thats a pretty concise review and explanation of a shotgun’s ability and availability as a great weapon for the average citizen. The variety of combat, hunting, and specialty ammunition does give the shotgun great flexibility. My personal favorite round for the shotgun is the flechette round. 20 one inch steel nails with stabilizer fins that can penetrate even the deepest brush, and many, many soft zombie skulls. Congrats Zombiemoviemaker! Great post.

183. ryan on 09 Feb 2009 at 8:06 am #

     I’d just pull a matrix and have about 20 of my best friends ready to rock.
     Go with guns with interchangeable magazines.
     I would also stick to 9mm’s. Easy to find the ammo.
     I would probably have some rifles and shotguns hung from the walls for easy grabbing.
     You know, set up multiple fall back locations.

184. TalonDJ on 11 Feb 2009 at 6:27 pm #

     Anyone that thinks a shotguns is going to make aiming easy or hit multiple targets at close range has been playing too many video games. At a few feet the spread of a shotgun is TINY. Period. it does not open up much for many yards. Don’t believe me? Go shoot skeet for a while and tell me how well you do. Or just shoot at a big box at close range and see the pattern it makes.

     +1 for the AR-15 style rifles. Fast enough to punch through any skull. Light and nimble for close in work and long ranged for sniping from a good vantage point. Lots of bullets for not too much weight. 22s are easier to find but I would not trust one to punch through a skill every time, even at close range. Besides, my 10/22 with a 25 round mag is not that super lighter than my AR with a 30. High capacity .22 mags are generally not reliable. in my experience. I have a 50 that is worthless. .25s are decent if you get the right brand. Besides all that the 10/22 takes longer to reload than the AR.

     The ‘average joe’ with a shotgun is going to die after the first 5 shots as he is trying to reload. It is not that easy for someone not good with one to roll it over and stuff shells in. Not when in a hurry and shaking with fear or adrenaline. Not that an ‘average joe’ is going to be able to do well with an AR either. If I have an ‘average joe’ with me I will leave him the shotgun in case any come up behind me while I am picking them off from long range. But even then I will not trust him to cover my back. My wife can do that with her AR.

185. William on 21 Feb 2009 at 3:00 pm #

     Stick to what the military and law enforcement supply in your area, 9mm, 40s&w, 12 gauge, 5.56. I prefer 45 acp and 308 but survival means adapting to any situation quickly. Ammo goes extremely fast. Have spare parts, guns break down just like cars. Make diversionary devices, remote control tape player, firecrackers, anything that draws attention. Purifying your water would be required too, contaminants can get in the water table easily. Always expect the unexpected and never stop moving.

186. demonfox on 04 Mar 2009 at 7:50 am #

     simple and easy solved problem you carry several weapons most likely a semi to full auto rifle in arms on stap a shotgun holstered to you back for thoose oh so friendly close quarters combat times, and of course a nice pair of dual side arms with several extra clips.

     personally i probably take an ak47 for it realiability and pretty much indestructibleness unlike the American made M-16 which jams more often then not. I spaz shot gun with two ammo belts and probably a pair of either 9mm berrettas easy to locate ammo or glock 45 autoload.

187. Dizzy on 06 Mar 2009 at 6:55 am #

     Don’t forget that shotguns make A LOT of noise and will attract an infinite amount more zombies to your location :P

188. guerrilla_warfare on 13 Mar 2009 at 2:12 pm #

     I’d say that the shotgun is a VERY good weapon:
     1 Spread: aimed at a downward angle using 00 buck-shot while firing into a cluster of zombies would be very effective.
     2 Ammo: Ammo in all different types is easy to find for a shotgun (especially a .12ga) also it is easy to reload/make even with the most primitive gunpowder/primers.
     3 Very effective against people: Lets not forget that we will most likely have to fight against gangs and raiders as well, and that the shotgun could prove invaluable against said groups.

189. Jason on 23 Mar 2009 at 12:51 am #

     I would have to say… the shotgun would defiantly be on my back if I went anywhere in an outbreak. Yes, its heavy, yes it doesn’t hold that much ammo… BUT, if you know what your doing, you can use it VERY effectively.
     1.) For most shotguns, (not police or military use) you can only hold 3-5 rounds. However, inside the gun is a plug that you can take out allowing you to hold more rounds (7-10).
     2.) In large groups of the infected, you can put spread shot shells in that spray everywhere. If none of that kills at least 2, then at least shoot for the legs, cause I promise you they won’t be walking anywhere after a 12 gauge shot to the legs..
     3.) You can use it so knock back multiple zombies from far away. Unlike in video games and movies, you don’t have to be 3 feet in front of someone for the shotgun to every hit them, they can be effective up to 120-150 feet.

190. 12 GAUGE HEAVEN on 23 Mar 2009 at 3:14 pm #

     I dont know about yall but a 12 gauge is a fine eliminator. If your making your final stand in your home with a barricade or shooting 20-40 yards out the front window a 12 gauge with some buckshot is gonna serve you very well.

     The beauty of the 12 gauge is how useful it can be, its a great TOOL. Whether it be blowing heads off shoulders, or taking down doors ( i mean come on we always see people in the movies that are searching for refuge make it to a door in an unfamilar place that is locked, in that case blow it open.) And for some reason if you dont kill the ghoulie with the first shell you are gonna leave him staggering. In reality a 12 gauge loaded with buck shot or slugs is beyond a serious man stopper. There is no creature on this planet that is gonna survive a 12 gauge shotgun with a slug load pointed at their grape at close range. (unless there is some abnormal creature with an incredible boulder like’ skull, hell i dunno, but u get the point)

     another plus is the cost of ammo you can find 25 rnds for 7-9 bucks or go to walmart they sell 2 3/4 8 shots, $23.00 for a pack of 100 shells. you got 100 bucks and you got 400 rnds.

     All i can say is that if im not carrying my 12 gauge then the guy next to me will be. Im a huge fan of ARs (ive spent so much money on em i would feel obligated to use em) so that would be my choice.

191. Ashurbanipal on 29 Apr 2009 at 1:33 am #

     Dude, the true best choice would be the AK47 or any of its variants

     1 Great ammo capacity
     2 Quick and easy to reload
     3 Rate of fire? its an AK. Nuff said.
     4 Damn good range. Power. Once again, ITS AN AK.
     5 Very easy to use.
     6 (bonus) Will never jam, no matter what kind of conditions you put it in.

     Perfect zombie weapon.
     done.

192. Abraxas on 11 May 2009 at 12:25 pm #

     Is there a reason that the only good weapons accessible are russian? No biggie. Anyway, My weapon of choice is the SVD, with its durability, foldable stock, capability for a supressor, and common ammo type.

193. Abraxas on 11 May 2009 at 12:34 pm #

     Is there a reason that the only good weapons accessible are Russian? No biggie. Anyway, My weapon of choice is the SVD, with its durability, fold-able stock, capability for a suppressor, and common ammo type.
     My reasoning for a shotgun is not as a major weapon but more like a tool. if a small mob blocks your path, knock them down. it can launch a variety of shot, from real shot to random metal and glass. one last thing and probably most important, in other texts, they reference the shotgun despersing not a single killing bullet, but more like a wall. this can be used effectively. as with shotguns, explosives are good tools. they arent really effective at killing, but they’ll blow a horde apart faster than you will sniping them. and if you are looking to run, who cares about the leftovers. also it helps to carry ordinance so you can destroy obstacles.

194. rodehouse on 16 May 2009 at 11:49 am #

     22lr is my best beat but hollow tips and semi auto

195. PandemicAttack on 20 May 2009 at 6:18 pm #

     Personally my weapon set of choice would start with preferably (not likely though) 2 shotguns: a tactical 12 gauge pump action with #4 sized buckshot and a pistol gripped SPAS 12. My second weapon would be a Steyr AUG 5.56mm assault rifle with a 407mm carbine barrel because its light, portable, and accurate while retaining powerful. I would carry a Kimber Aegis .45 semi-automatic as a side-arm. For close combat I would carry a tachi which admittedly would be hard to find because the use and smithing of quality usable swords has all but stopped.

196. m1sterb0b on 25 May 2009 at 8:53 pm #

     Firstly, if you think about it, a shotgun is easier to reload than an m-4 assault weapon. i have owned an AR15, which uses the same round and magazine as an m-4 (its just semi auto), and I can reload my 12 gauge remington 870 twice as fast. Sure you can get 5 – 10 shells in a 30 round mag decently fast, but the more you get in the harder it is to get them in, and you struggle more and more with them, a shotgun shell goes in easier than most rifle shells into a mag. Most TYPICAL shotguns only hold 7 – 10 rounds, and yes, they can be difficult to load, however, theres a shotgun released by the military that has a drum magazine that you slide the shotgun shells into it and you can shoot it with ease and quite fast. Theres also another 12 gauge that has a special setup so that its easy to load and it can be fired with 1 hand, it can be fired backwards if you wanted to (pointing it behind you, not at you). So generalizing that an m-4 is better than a shotgun, isn’t a good point. The only good point you have thats true is the range point. A shotgun has terrible range, even with slugs, range sucks, you can really only shoot up to 60 or 70 yards effectively before it seriously drops and loses power, not to mention anything farther than that is impossible to hit because its not that accurate of a weapon. You’ll get better range/effectiveness with buckshot. Also, comparatively, the shotgun can BLOW A GUYS HEAD OFF a 5.56×45 (m-4) can put a small hole through it and maybe put a hole in the back of a guys head big enough for a golf ball . . . I’d rather blow their head off!

     As for power, its hard to get something has powerful as a shot gun without going into the higher calibers, unless you find .50 cals fun and accurate! A shot from a shotgun will knock a guy over (the guy getting shot) where as a 5.56×45 will go through them, and they will drop if they die, but wont if they don’t).

     Also, a shotgun is a HECK of a lot easier to use than an m-4. Firstly on an m-4, you have to insert the mag, which sometimes goes in tough, and then you have to pull the slider on the top back, release it, then if a bullet doesn’t insert all the way (and it does happen) there’s a button you keep jamming on until it goes in, not to mention the magazine release button and the button to release the bolt when its stuck back. So lets see, there’s about 5 or 6 moving pieces/buttons that you have to know how to use, where as on a shotgun, you put in the ammo, push in the button to release the pump, pump and shoot. That’s about 2 or 3 moving parts that you need to know what they do and how to use them (this is of course skipping the safety lock which some guns have some don’t, and skipping the trigger, its the same exact function on both) Umm . . . I think a shotgun is easier to use! I learned how to use my Remington 870 in about 1 minute, where as it took me about 5 – 8 minutes to fully understand everything on an m-4.

     Not to mention, shotguns NEVER jam! m-4′s jam! when they jam, you have to get it unjammed. Last time I shot 5.56×45 with someone, he had a shell get jammed and it took him about 6 or 7 minutes to get it unjammed

197. fred on 30 May 2009 at 3:08 pm #

     I disagree with the author because my remington 870 .12 gauge pump action is reliable
     and it can hit targets at about 100 yards accurately(with slugs). also its very easy to use. you
     put 1 shell in the tube pump the gun and put up to another 4 shells in. yes an AR15
     style rifle can shoot further but after the first hundred yards it looses a lot of its
     power. a shot gun is a much better close range weapon. ive seen a dozen videos
     of soldiers being shot with ARs and in most of them the guy just gets up like nothing
     happened. a blast from a shotgun would kill a guy in a bullet proof vest from the blunt
     force trama. oh, i recommend a shotgun chambered for 3.5 inch shells. you can put
     any length .12 gauge shells in them that you find. you cant put a 3.5 inch shell in a gun
     thats chambered for 2.3/4.

198. andrew on 30 May 2009 at 4:24 pm #

     i dont agree with you saying that the M4 is the best and that Shotguns arnt good. i have several and and can reload them rapidly under stress. what about shotguns with magazines like the Saiga-12 there you just pop in a magazine and your good and its semi not pump. but By all means when compared to the HK 416 the M4 is **** i own both and i have to say the colt is a lot less reliable then the HK and dont even try to shot the M4 after its been sumberged under water the HK 416 can fire sumberged.

199. JELLYBEANS on 04 Jun 2009 at 8:42 am #

     I disagree completely with you.

     The AR-15 in any form is a great weapon. I own 3 currently in different setups. But for close range, nothing better than a shotgun.

     As for reloading, look into a Saiga 12 gauge that comes with a Magazine.

200. LOLMan on 09 Jun 2009 at 3:56 pm #

     Hello Everybody!
     Wow this is a sweet forum- i have to say that the Saiga 12 gauge looks cool :D Just get some of you peasent friends to keep reloading clips for you and your set! Jk- they would be eaten and you would be screwed, but iguess i would (bare minimum) have a semi auto AK and the Saiga 12 gauge, because they derived the Saiga 12 gauge from the AK, parts would be interchangable- worst case scenario, you end up with a fully funtional gun and a lot of spare stuff for it. Add 2 of your favorite pistols and your good.

201. arthurchadwell on 15 Jun 2009 at 4:01 pm #

     I see someone has already beeten me to the Saiga-12…. it’s everything an AK is, just in 12ga. Load up a 30rd. drum with 3″ ooBuck loads and let the party begin!!

202. USAF Security Forces on 19 Jun 2009 at 4:34 pm #

     First, I would like to say, nice website. Nice to see somebody else that thinks about a
     zombie invasion. My wife thinks im crazy. Upon saying that, on to buisness.
     Weapon choice. Me being ex military and combat vet, I have had plenty of experiance
     with a multitude of weaponry. I have been planning an invasion for years. My first thing
     to say is, Procure you a M249 Squad Automatic Weapon. This is what I carried in Iraq.
     It lays down good supressive fire, and can be switched to semi auto. It takes linked ammo,
     as well as M-16 type box mags. It should have a reflex or holographic sight on it
     the downfall to this is the weight. Second,a .40S&W caliber weapon. Perfably a Glock 22. You have pretty much the same ballesticsas a .45acp, but the high cap. of a 9mm. It should have a internal laser site. These dont
     have to be sighted in, and anyone can use one. Third, a 12 gauge shotgun. I have used them
     many times in a combat situation. I used a Rem 870, but i prefer the Winchester 1200
     Stainless Steel Marine. The all stainless construction means that you can let it go for
     awhile between cleanings, but I sugest that you keep all your weapons clean at all times.
     Lastly, a blade of some sort. My KA-BAR got my ass out of a jam more than once in Iraq.
     I would sugest a true 1000 fold katana. They are the toughest blade that is made. They
     are expensive, so a 550 would serve the same purpose. Back to the SAW. It would be hard
     to get one, so an AR-15 varrent of somekind, preferably a M-16A1, would be the next
     best choice. I have a Class 3 FFL, so I actuially have one. I am working on getting a SAW
     right now. Well, thats my 2 cents. Thats the choices I would go with in the event of a zombie
     invasion, I made these selections due to my combat experiance. Thanks for reading.

203. Thunderzombie on 24 Jun 2009 at 10:01 pm #

     I agree with some of the people about using a .22 caliber rifle. It won’t be my primary weapon but I will have it on my back. Has anyone seen those cabela’s hunting packs with the sleeve to secure a rifle? That’s where I’d keep it until needed. I for one am not going to pick any zombies off just for fun. But I have an older Marlin model 60 with the micro groove barrel that I know I can hit eyeballs at 100 yards away open sights. When it comes down to it, I am going to be using very sharp melee weapons with pistols as backup. Just my opinion though.

204. Ronin666 on 29 Jun 2009 at 2:44 am #

     Well, all this talk about semi auto and fully auto weapons is great, if you live in a country where you can own one. The thing to remember here is “you can’t miss fast enough to win”. The spray and pray method is just a waste of valuable ammo.
     Buy what you can afford, and shoot it ,shoot it a lot. Theres a guy at my club can empty his lever 357 before the first shell hits the ground and put every round on target. Why? he shoots it a LOT. Learn to reload your own ammo, you save money and and can afford to shoot more.
     Semi and auto long guns and pump shottys are banned where I live, my battery is
     357 lever action rifle (Uberti)
     357 revolvers (686) x2
     308 Mauser (based on a spanish action)
     223 Remington 7600
     Boito double barrel 12G
     and I’m thinking of adding a 12 Lever action shotty.

205. Greg Ogan on 08 Jul 2009 at 5:20 am #

     The AA-12 is a good gun.It has multiple mags you can use it shoots 5 rounds a second and is accurate.

206. Rootie on 12 Jul 2009 at 5:37 pm #

     I think one thing a lot of people are overlooking is the necessity to be trained or at least very competent with whatever guns you choose to fight off zombies. You never know when you’ll have to clear a jam or stovepiped shell casing, or reload your weapon in the dark, etc…

     I definitely think a 12 gauge is an essential home defense weapon and can be loaded very quickly with a little practice. As mentioned before, the rounds are bulky and heavy, but if you’re holed up in your house with plenty of ammo who cares. For defending the home I’d take a pump 12 with extended mag tube and my 45 with laser sight. Both are great for knockdown close range headshots and easy to find ammo for.

     However, if you are forced to evacuate, I’m not sure I would want to travel with the shotgun. Realistically, you are only going to be able to carry one long gun and I would take an M4 with a red dot or holo sight and the 45. On the run, you need the option of reaching out long range to take care of the undead before they can gang up on you or pinpoint your location. After all, zombies are not especially fast, so headshots at 75-100 yards should be possible.

     Like I said before, there’s no substitute for being familiar with the function of your firearms. Shooting trap and skeet is great for practicing quick target acquisition with a shotgun. Real life scenarios like shooting at targets while you’re moving and reloading quickly are great for rifle and pistol training. Best to keep plenty of guns and stockpiles of ammo just in case…

207. prokiller123 on 25 Jul 2009 at 1:30 pm #

     for me, i truly agree with your reasons, because if you do want to join others when zombies are attacking(because i don’t think anybody can hold zombies longer than 2 days without sleep) so i must go as fast as i can. my choice would be an MP5-MC, AN94, or M4 with red dot, because it would be easier to move if you can have a light and high RPM gun or a high RPM gun with much power. and also a side arm like a glock18c or colt M1911 with laser point.

208. devius lupis on 05 Aug 2009 at 5:26 pm #

     i dont think a shotgun would be a BAD weapon, even number 4 steel bird shot would do the trick and if its a semi-auto you just keep pulling that trigger till your mag is empty,i can reload a (8shot) shotty in less than 5 seconds. but id much rather have a semi-auto .223 or something.

209. Calvin on 13 Aug 2009 at 5:06 pm #

     hmm i have to disagree with the post. mainly because of the fact that a shotgun is one of the most easiest guns to use. also, with a mag fed gun, wat happens when u run out of mags? this will constantly put you in search for more mags, more mags = more weight. im not saying a shotgun is teh best. i also disagree with the m4 being teh best choice. an m4 has alot of lil moving parts which dirt and grime can gather and jam the gun. i would say the AK 47 is the best choice of weapon.

210. Tom on 16 Aug 2009 at 11:29 am #

     Ever heard of a Saiga 12? It is an AK variant, magazine loaded 12 guage shotgun. Very fast cycling it can fire 10 rounds in 2 seconds. In a 00 load, That’s 80, .34 caliber rounds down range creating a more than lethal wall of fire out to 35 yards. Magaazine capacity of up to 20 rounds each. You obviously don’t know weapons. This shotgun will stack up the zombies.

211. KillerB on 19 Aug 2009 at 2:03 am #

     Are you all retarted? Any AR-15 that you have TRAINED with is the way to go. Yes it is a small round that leaves a small hole but we are talking about brain matter here…….When a bullet passes through the grey stuff it WILL cause massive destruction to the tissue and that equals a dead zombie. Keep in mind that you can easily carry 10-14 magazines. If you have TRAINED with your firearm of choice wearing the gear that you intend on carrying you should be able to top off a completly empty AR in less than 1 second and be back on target. Plus like I read in this very thread……..IT WILL BE OUR PATROTIC DUTY TO KILL THE ZOMBIES. If you have an AR then when (and you will eventually either link with or be supplied by U.S. Military) you do decide to go on Hunter/Killer missions you will have a weapon that you are comfortable with. That is if all you air soft sissys make it that far……………….CHEERS future ZEDS. I will see you around the corner.

212. KillerB on 19 Aug 2009 at 2:13 am #

     P.S. It just takes lube to keep a dirty AR-15 working. I wonder if any of you have tried that. Sand in a chamber will jamb any gun……Even your AK/AKM rifles. Lube is the order of business when killing the Zed masses. When you are back in a “safe zone” clean your weapon before you do anything else. All guns have little moving parts. Take care of your tools and they will take care of you. If in your TRAINING your AR is jambing 1st check to see that the magazines are not damaged and then squirt some CLP in to the bolt area. If it is still not working try using another type of ammo. If it is still jambing then sell it and buy a better quality AR. In Short. 99% of the AR malfunctions are user induced i.e. no lube and bad mags. The M16 is the longest serving U.S. Military firearm in our nations great history and it is going to continue into the forseable future…….WHY………..There is nothing better out there.
     So use what ever gun you can get your hands on when the Zeds come………..BUT keep your eyes peeled for an AR laying around. Chances are you won’t find one cause the guys using them will still be alive when you are chucking rounds into that shotgun. So again if you air soft sissys make it past the first week then CHEERS but to all of you future ZEDS…………..I WILL SEE YOU LATER

213. KillerB on 19 Aug 2009 at 2:19 am #

     P.P.S. I am sorry for calling the real shooters on this page “air soft sissys” But to everyone else…………..thanks for becoming a future target to a prepared ZOMBIE HUNTER. Know yourself first and then your weapons. Seek improvement. Train others to higher levels and keep your kit in arms reach………….WTSHTF there will be not time to decide a course of action. You must have a prerehersed battle plan that can be implemented in seconds. Leave the area, assess the situation, gather resources and then (only then) ATTACK.

214. KillerB on 20 Aug 2009 at 12:56 am #

     After posting yesterday I have been doing some thinking. In the American Civil War they used large caliber lead musket balls and “mini” balls to shoot at one another. Well while the chances of getting hit were fairly high the actual kill rate was rather low, when compared to the deaths from wounds after the actual battle. I bring this up for a couple of reasons. For one I am going ot recant my lack of love for the shotgun. Keeping in mind that the zombies are just walking dead people then it is clear that in order to kill a zombie then you must shoot em in the head. BUT what if you are trying to make a hasty escape form a fortified position? Is a kill actually mandatory? What if we could just limit the zombies moblity? Lets look at how we are going to accomplish this. For one. A ONE ONCE hunk of high velocity lead is nothing to laugh at. If we were to aim at the hips and upper thigh of the Zed thenwe stand a very high chance of removing the limb or breaking the bone. If the muscles can not pull on the bone then we have just “removed” that limb from service. It is practiced in the military to aim at the hips to inflect a casuality upon the enemy. We do it if they have body armor on but the fundamental fact is that it should work on a zombie. No one dead or alive moves around much with a broken hip. PLUS shooting at a hip is going to present a much larger target to shoot at and belive it or not it will move in a more predictable manner than a wobbling head will. I.E. It will be a more readily abvailale target for quick shooting. You can perform the coup de gras with a rock if you choose to later. The idea of slowing your opponent to a crawl will be advantageous to us all. Will it work in all situation………NO but forgetting human anatomy will get you turned into Zed in a heart beat.

215. KillerB on 20 Aug 2009 at 1:00 am #

     Sorry I have misspelled some many words it is late and my fingers are to fat to properly punch the key board…………….You don’t have to be an english major to know how to kill a Zombie.

216. KillerB on 20 Aug 2009 at 1:00 am #

     Sorry I have misspelled some many words it is late and my fingers are to fat to properly punch the key board…………….You don’t have to be an english major to know how to kill a Zombie.

217. ZK209 on 27 Aug 2009 at 6:00 pm #

     your all forgetting the main aspect of zombie killing. WHAT IF THEY DONT GO DOWN?!?!
     you have a glock or an M9.
     BANG.
     one to the head.
     what the fuck?
     the thing is still comming towards me?
     FUCK
     bang
     bang
     bang
     bang
     bang
     bang
     *zombie eats you*

     Shotgun however
     BOOM!
     “oh look his limbs all flew off in different directions. i win”

218. Matt on 01 Sep 2009 at 2:52 am #

     I still believe an AK clone is superior to an M4 or AR clone in a self defense situation involving zombies. The 7.62 round has much better penetration abilities and the gun itself can fire fairly straight in situations that would render the m4/AR inoperable. AKs are cheaper and way way easier to maintain and are quite accurate when cared for. The 7.62 ammo is extremely cheap and plentiful even today. M4/ARs on the other hand seem to be extremely sensitive to ammo (personal experience and the experience of army buddies).

     BTW part of the testing trials for the AK involved dragging it through sand. I’ve seen videos of idiots jamming stuff into their AKs and then firing them fine (search for “AK abuse”).

219. rootie 17 on 08 Sep 2009 at 12:33 pm #

     You have a point about the durability of AK’s, but Ihave to disagree with some things. First of all, as Killer B pointed out, our military uses the 223 round, which should make it available if and when you can meet up with armed forces. Its also lighter to carry. And most M4′s today are optics ready which is crucial to accuracy. You don’t see many AK scope mounts floating around, much less AK’s with scopes already fitted. I don’t care how good of a shot you are, you’d be hard pressed to make a headshot on a walking zombie with open sights unless it were pretty close. And why let it get any closer than necessary.

     As far as the 7.62 x 39 round, bullet weight is about the only advantage. The 5.56 is flatter shooting, more accurate, and completely effective on melons and zombie heads. Try shooting a milk jug full of water with a hollow point 223 and tell me otherwise. Shock cavity is what causes knockdown and a faster round has more of it on a juicy target. And while the 7.62 x 39 is readily available at gunshops, you probably won’t find it at your local walmart or hardware store.

     As far as being picky with ammo, I sure haven’t had a problem, even using budget surplus. I suspect anyone with a quality AR who keeps their weapon reasonably clean would agree. I know plenty of people who love their AK’s and I think they’re great, but I’ll stick to my AR>

220. Ravingbantha on 06 Oct 2009 at 4:00 pm #

     Any AR-15 varient is going to require constant maintence, every 400 rounds or so, your going to need to break the weapon down and give it a good cleaning. An AK-47 varient is going to be a far more reliable Zombie killing weapon, It has good accuracy out to about 200 yards, it holds as much ammo as an AR-15 varient, and can go forever between cleanings. When your running for your life, you don’t have time to clean your weapon.

221. Semper Cogitant on 08 Oct 2009 at 4:52 pm #

     Right about the shotgun option, in my opinion it’s mostly about firepower and quick reloading. I might keep one close at hand for some special cases, but it wouldn’t be a primary choice.

     As for the M-4, the .223 round is probably not the best. For longer range I’d take an Ar-10 or another of the numerous .308 variants of the venerable AR-15 design. For close in work I’d prefer a carbine in .45 ACP, something like the HK USC, a Thompson, or the CX4 from Beretta. I’d also carry a pistol in .45, for myself probably a 1911 but any would be fine for the purpose.

     I choose the .45 because it has a better chance of knockdown in the case of a nonfatal shot than does 9mm, and because the ammunition is easily available.

     I’m sure in the 200+ comment that precede me all this has already been said, but this is how I’d do it.

222. nativeson on 16 Oct 2009 at 12:21 pm #

     30.06. Readily available ammunition in all kinds of grains; high hitting power, good for

     long or close range. Don’t like recoil? Use a lighter load. Need to drop em on the other

     side of something? Use a larger load.

     Overpenetration? Zombies are a biggest threat in groups. Fire at one

     so what if it blows out the back of its mellon and smacks into another’s…that’s called a

     twofer. Worried about hitting a living being? Any shooter knows to know what is in behind

     their target. If you are not able to handle a firearm safely, find something else for your

     zombie defence weapon.

     Reloading time? Even commercial hunting rifles come with magazines. 1 in the

     chamber, four in the mag. Go practice at the range, you’ll be amazed how quickly you’ll

     get the hang of reloading your rifle quickly. I think in a do or die situation anyone who

     has decided to survive with this type of weapon will get it together enough to use their

     firearm proficiently to save their bacon.

     And let’s not forget other people. Most zombies I’ve read or movies I’ve watched find

     survivors dealing with the idiot living as a larger threat than the zombified dead. You

     want to be able to drop a moron before they get you and/or someone else killed;

     sometimes you’ll want to drop them well before they can get close enough to drop you.

     Sometimes you’ll be putting bullets through things to get to get them.

     30.06. Accept no substitute.

223. 3-15 INF on 04 Nov 2009 at 12:28 pm #

     hey USAF security forces you are full of shit- carried the M249 in Iraq for REAL and ever grunt here can tell you it is full auto only. NOT selective fire!!! I wish guys would quit bullshitting. If you thought the weaqpon in your hands in a combat zone had that capability, you never spent a day shooting it. No selector for semi- jeeeez..

224. JMO on 08 Nov 2009 at 5:51 pm #

     Ummm…..I have a few things to say on this discussion. I have a few points to make and it may take a little reading. I apologize.

     1.) Nobody ever said you ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NEED to KILL the zombies. Wounding is just as effective if you cause immobility. An immobile zombie can be mopped up later when more time and other more practical arms are available. With the short spread of your typical .12 gauge you get about a coffee saucer spread of shot with .00 buck in a room sized environment. That blows HUGE holes in things. If you knock out the first row, the second row is entangled…continue as necessary until they have to claw their way through corpses or immobilized zeds until the rate of fire or ability to use an edged weapon is available. In an enclosed environment with minimal flanking possibility, such as a stairwell, shotguns can be the IDEAL weapon of first response. Should they be the only weapon in your arsenal? No. But they should be effective until you can switch or evacuate the A.O. effectively. They have stopping power, and maim

     2.) The .223………….A fantastic and utterly lethal weapon, but alas, not good at close ranged attacks with multiple targets at close range that DON”T feel pain or in the same situation with someone that won’t aim properly. My recommendation is to go ahead and pick up an AR or the M-4 in the .223 or 5.56mm for long range practice, sniping, perimeter defense, or something of that magnitude. I would like to suggest that you go to the same manufacturer and pick up the 6.8 derivative of the upper assembly though. It has better stopping power, so it will knock the zed down even if it doesn’t kill him so it gives you more time to play with when dealing with ranged combat, yet it still lacks the nasty kick of the 7.62 round. The upper receivers are not hard to come by. Which leads me to the best point of this weapon…..they interchange. One bottom assembly can house several different uppers. one gun for all seasons. Don’t like the .223 then get a 7.62, don’t like the 7.62 then get a 6.8, don’t like the 6.8 get a .45 or .9mm. The army chose it for it’s universal versatility.

     3.) Never go ANYWHERE in ZOMBIELAND without a .45 semi. Nothing says stop like it. My personal favorites are the Colt 1911 variants.

     4.) Whereas katanas are nice weapons they have extreme limitations in close quarters combat. You can hardly wield one effectively in an enclosed space and a good samurai/ katana that could hack and slash a zombie horde and survive would cost more than a shotgun, more than an AR, and more than a .45 semi pistol AND their ammunition. If the problem is bruising, or pain, or wearing ones self out then this is also a bad option. Hack some bamboo shoots tied together for a couple of hours and see how you feel. It has it’s charm and is a frightfully lethal weapon, but don’t let hype tempt you in the wrong direction. To properly choose an edged weapon you must first decide how and when that weapon will be used. I would wonder why you would put yourself, in this imagined reality, into a wide open space where a katana would be assertive and useful. Since doing so would put you at a severe disadvantage when engaging a numerically superior force without ranged offensive capability. That is just setting yourself up for failure. I would recommend something simpler, something the American natives knew of long before the rest of the world…..the tomahawk. It is short, can be wielded in one hand and can hack off limbs. It has a reverse that can penetrate skull bone and the base of the neck. It’s light, and you can swing it remotely safely in enclosed spaces and allows for other weapons to be used simultaneously. The only thing it lacks to the katana is reach, which is precisely why it is more effective in an urban environment.

     well…that was my two cents….hope to see you all after we’ve trained the zombies to be slave labor. Have a good one

225. Angryvikingman on 08 Nov 2009 at 10:02 pm #

     An AR-15 wont fail after 400 rounds. Ive put over 500 rounds through mine in a single session. If you shoot your weapon enough, you’ll get to know when its not cycling right. when it acts like its gumming up, squirt in some lube or CLP and it will keep on running. You dont even have to open the gun up. Pull back the charging handle and squirt the inside of the chamber, close the bolt, squirt the outside of the bolt, and run that bitch. It aint brain surgery.

226. Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 08 Nov 2009 at 10:15 pm #

     Well, lets be honest Angryvikingman, we are doing brain surgery, it’s just not very subtle.
     And I’ve known of AR platform that have 700 plus round in one day, and that being nothing but blanks, they those things are filthy to say the very least. And I whole heartly agree with Angryvikingman. Any good shooter can tell how their guns running by the feel of working the action or just shooting it, they become a part of you.

     “They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
     they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
     they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
     when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
     Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet

227. Montyy on 09 Nov 2009 at 12:48 pm #

     Angryviking man, just a tip mate, id watch with just squirting lube in the chamber because if that oil gets into the barrel it can and will combust which will cause the barrel to warp and potentinally explode in your face.. and thats definetly something worth avoiding… I have witnessed this, not actual barrels exploding but i have seen warping due to oil combusting in the barrel, it makes noticable lumps and bumps in the barrel, which are obvious weak points that could potentially cause a barrel to explode espically in hard sustained use.. I’m not implying you shouldn’t oil your weapons but there is a very fine line between a well oiled gun and a dangerously over oiled gun..

228. Drew Fox on 23 Nov 2009 at 12:13 am #

     So ive been reading this AR vs shotgun debate. How about a compromise? Theres a gun called a T-14. Its basically an AR 15 that shoots .410 shotshells. Now granted, .410 isnt as powerfull as 12 guage, but every time you pull the trigger 3 or 4 balls come out. And you can get 15 round mags for it(someone prolly makes a 20) so you can carry alot but you shouldnt have to pull the trigger as much and it wont tear your shoulder up. plus they make rifled slugs for a little more accuracy and range. Although it will never be a sniper rifle many people just wont need to make a shot over 75 yards.

229. Miskel on 05 Dec 2009 at 2:58 pm #

     I’m not a gun nut, survival expert or even really a zombie enthusiast, but I found this article very interesting. Although the M4 is a very excellent looking firearm (and by your article, a very capable one), I still feel the shotgun would have the real world advantage. I have no idea where one would even look for an M4, but I know exactly where to go to get shotguns and ammo for them, Wal-Mart! So when you’re on the move and you see that big blue sign, you know there’s a good chance to pick up some ammo and maybe more guns. But if you’re toting an M4, you probably need to go to specialty shops or military bases. Both are hard to come by and would most likely be either picked clean or have some crazy defenses up. So overall, I think the ultimate combination would be to carry both the M4 and a mag-fed shotgun. M4 for the artistic distance shots, and the shotty when you need to do some wet work.

230. salemsam on 06 Dec 2009 at 5:49 pm #

     After being on an entry team and having first hand experience with Zombies, both the M4 and shotgun are totally the wrong weapon of choice. You want a short barrel weapon the at you can turn quickly with in close quarters and have a high capacity. Now if you must use the .223 round then go with a bull-pup design. Personally I would recommend going with a Linda or Terry 9mm carbine. 32 inches overall, a 30 round mag, and has the recoil of a 22 cal rifle. A 147 grain HP head shot with a range of 200 to 300 feet will do any Zombie in. He might be wearing body armor.

     The second choice would be the Beretta Storm Carbine in either 40 cal or 45 cal. You loose capacity but gain in mass and energy at point of impact.

     Let’s face it – shotguns are too messy and you have to worry about cross contamination. Like they always say:

     ” one shot – one kill”

     Happy hunting

231. Drew Fox on 10 Dec 2009 at 2:02 am #

     i like the shot gun too miskel, but i dont think getting ammo or parts for an m4 or similar weapon is that hard. theres lots of gun shops out there. .223 is readily available in many places and a well made gun shouldnt need too many parts to replace. the question is, if you could only carry one gun which do you think would serve you best or the most?

232. Angryvikingman on 10 Dec 2009 at 4:43 am #

     My Walmart has 100rnd packs of federal .223 for $36. I try and buy a box as often as possible. Its bulk ammo, but its pretty accurate out to 300 yards. Its not nearly as bad as surplus or wolf ammo. Its cleaner and you can save the brass for reloading. Also, my walmart sells 100 round packs of federal shotgun ammo for $22. Its only #8 shot, but by god, thats better than nothing.

233. INF 3-15 INF on 16 Dec 2009 at 11:49 am #

     Yeah Federal .223 and 12-guage have become really available now. Good job to them in stepping up production. Ever since the election and economic trouble, ammo in general has been so scarce. That ammo may not be BTHP match ammo but its fine for assault rifle ranges.

     That birdshot is really tempting for the price, but we’ve all beat to death it’s innefectiveness at anything but really close range. Have you done any experiments on what is the farthest we could rely on #8 to destroy a scull? I’d be interested to find that out- what do u figure, 10 feet? Like you said, better than nothing.

     Oh hey, viking, I’d load up on some extra parts for you gsg-5 while you can. I read lately that they’re discontinuing production.

234. Knightmare on 17 Dec 2009 at 4:15 am #

     Sorry everyone, but if you really think about it…There is no gun out there that will work in every situation…Sometimes you need that rapid fire and quick reload and sometimes you and just sit back and wait for a better shot…However guns need ammo to work…Otherwise it’s just a waste…Use a gun when you have to and pick up a sword, bat, golf club or pipe…There is one thing you all are not thinking about…If zombies walk the earth, people will be scared and they will be humans with cold hearts out there that will kill us for food, ammo, or even to just get us guys out of their way because they want to rape are sisters, wifes, girlfriends or what ever good looking females we have in are group…Its a sick sad world out there and ZOMBIES are not what I will be using my gun to kill if they ever walk this earth…I would have to save my gun’s ammo for hunting and protection from other humans…It doesn’t matter how sharp my blade is on my sword, I know it will still kill a zombie…Oh by the way guys…Gun are loud, and shotguns being really loud…Zombies will hear the gun shots and be draw to you…so if you use a gun, make it quite…its better that you hear it than they hear it…

235. 3-15 INF on 23 Dec 2009 at 11:24 pm #

     All true points made many times on this thread- many many many people have thought about the thing you state that we haven’t thought about. Read through the site for a while and you’ll see that.

236. cardinal on 30 Dec 2009 at 11:26 am #

     While shotgun is not ideal it presents any advantages over the m-4 and disadvantages.

     First off it is a tactical item like all weapons. It is a tool.

     Yes shotgun is bulky, large and has a small ammo capacity making it very unideal for many circumstances.

     So lets say what a shotgun should be used for.

     1) In conjunction with a semiauto pistol.
     2) Stopping power. A slug or shell full of buckshot will knock a zombie down, blow a head off with a neck shot, shatter a spine, knock a leg off and incapacitate several zombies with one round into a crowd.
     3)Narrow hallways. A person with a larger capacity shotgun who is a competent marksman can knock down 1 zombie after another reloading if possible after each round.

     4)Most importantly a person with a shogun should be in a group with others. 1 or 2 people armed with shoguns and the rest with assault rifles or a light machine gun like a saw is is ideal as they can back each other up.

     Ideal setup is a person with a pistol in a holster for those hairy times, a mp5 with extendable stock slung by the hip which can fire in semi or full auto. Having the same handling characteristics as an m4 except with the better hitting power of a 9mm.

     Finally a mossberg 590 with a 9+1 magazine and sidesaddle is ideal as it is large capacity, reloadable and you know will stop a zed.

237. 3-15 INF on 06 Jan 2010 at 5:32 pm #

     @ Cardinal

     All good points, in that a sidearm is always a good thing to have if the primary goes down temporarily.

     There are alot of great reason to have a 9mm, but better hitting power over a m4 is not one of them. 5.56 has 3 times the power of a 9mm and ten times the range.

     I like the shotgun, but i wouldn’t count on it blowing limbs off or disabling multiple adversaries per shot either.

     I agree that the pump action is the best choice, especially for the reason of reloading after every few shots.

238. trax on 14 Jan 2010 at 3:35 pm #

     Just searching the matrix for “home defense” weapons and I stumbled in here… damn I love the matrix!

     Before I comment on the matter I must ask a question…

     Do spinal column shots and cranial shots incapacitate zombies?

239. AA-12 Shotgun – Anti-Zombie Weapon of Choice | Undead Report on 14 Jan 2010 at 4:48 pm #

     [...] my friends over at Zombies Are Coming have complied reasons as to why a shotgun does not make for a good weapon in a zombie outbreak. [...]

240. RudeBoy on 15 Jan 2010 at 7:17 am #

     Ive seen the Kriss Super V mentioned here a few times. I own this weapon (16 in. barrell/folding stock) and Im extremely happy with it. Its very simple in design, only has a handful of moving parts, breaks down in about five seconds (no tools required), shoots a heavy round (.45), very light weight with almost no recoil/muzzle climb, and uses a Glock 21 mag which means same mags for primary weapon and sidearm. I recently purchased a couple 30 rnd mags for it. This is a versatile, simple, weapon that is extremely accurate and easy to shoot. Good for room clearing and accurate to 100 yrds.

241. Pvt. Rasmussen on 15 Jan 2010 at 10:47 am #

     I Think That An Auto Assault-12 (AA-12) Full-Auto Machine Shotgun/FRAG-12 High-Explosive Round Combo/Weapon System might work

242. 3-15 INF on 18 Jan 2010 at 10:02 pm #

     @shotgunner- there’s a few probs with your post-

     1. The AA-12 does NOT have 200 rd drum, it has a 20 rd drum

     2. A 12-gauge shotgun round of any kind, from buck, bird shot, BB, explosive or slug will NOT make anything explode, just make a hole of varying size

     3. There are NO AA-12′s being used in Iraq (yeah, I know you are saying “How do YOU know?!?) well, how do you?

     4. A slug round will NOT “easily” hit a target at 200 yards- try difficult to hit at greater than 100

     5. I wouldn’t plan on zombies being slow

     6. How do you figure that 12-gauge rounds will pass through bodies more than rifle rounds and knock out multiples?

243. Angryvikingman on 21 Jan 2010 at 9:43 pm #

     With a rifled slug barrel, and a sabot slug, you can make a 3-4 inch group at 100 yards. After 150 yards, you’re not going to hit much of anything with a slug. If you guys want some instructional shooting videos, I’ll see what I can do.

244. 3-15 INF on 22 Jan 2010 at 11:31 am #

     Yeah, but with the rifled slug barrel you are dedicated to slugs. You could change out the barrel, but firing shot through a rifled barrel will make any shot pattern as this wierd looking concentric ring with no hits in the middle.

245. Angryvikingman on 23 Jan 2010 at 8:44 am #

     Even the new remington 00 Buckshot? Its got that filler in it to keep the shot from bouncing around in the barrel and allows it to keep a tighter shot pattern and perhaps increases the effective range.

246. 3-15 INF on 23 Jan 2010 at 3:55 pm #

     it’s got more to do with the rifling- gets the load spinning out of the barrel, so it patterns like a ring- not hard to switch back and forth to a smoothbore barrel though

247. Angryvikingman on 23 Jan 2010 at 5:22 pm #

     Yeah, couple twists of the screw and a quick yank, probably 30 seconds change time. Unless you practice. LOL, but who does that?

248. 3-15 INF on 24 Jan 2010 at 3:01 pm #

     I’m trying to find out more about the Mossberg 930 tactical semiauto shotgun- its really pointable and seems like it would have a lot of utility- I know alot of guys here like the saiga and other mag feds, but I’m old school and like tube feds. Can anybody attest to real experience with this gun and whether or not its reliable? I’m comparing it to a saiga 12, or a remington 1100

249. Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 24 Jan 2010 at 6:17 pm #

     The 930 supposedly out performs the Beneili M4. I don’t know, haven’t shot one yet, but they do point nice, that I won’t argue. Personally it what you want do. A pump gun has it’s advantages as do semi autos. The only thing I can say about the 930 is that I have yet to hear anyone with any clot trash it, plus the gun is very reasonable. Another semi auto I like that I should have bought when I had the change is the FN SLP. That’s a nice gun.
     As for the Saiga Its an okay gun in my opinion. Granted I’ve only handled and shot one and the length of pull on that one was god awful long. That and the one I was shoot wouldn’t cycle low recoil buck for that matter it would only cycle slugs. That said, with the slugs I was hitting a gallon buck as seventy-five yards with open sights so I not gonna say the gun can’t shoot. The only major issue I had that would stop me from buying a saiga is trying to do a mag change with the one I shot damn near took three hands. Personally I would go with an 870 or 590, but that just me and what I’ve shot. Can’t speak to the 500 or any other riot/combat shotguns. Now competition guns, that a different story.

     “They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
     they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
     they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
     when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
     Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet

250. Chainer on 25 Jan 2010 at 12:17 am #

     No gun will be great for any kind of defense (zombie or otherwise) without lots of practice. Rifles need to be reloaded too. Semi/full-autos are also much much more prone to jamming than a pump shotgun. And if you don’t drill clearing the jam, you’re screwed.

     That said, when I shoot 3″ slugs out of my my Mossberg 590 the first recoil mitigating factor I use is not being a pussy.

251. adam on 20 Feb 2010 at 12:35 am #

     Completely agree. I have a bushmaster just like the one pictured above, but with an eotech sight. I would say it is the ultimate zombie weapon. The sight makes a huge difference. Aim with both eyes open, and very quick target aquisition.

252. therenow on 26 Feb 2010 at 6:55 pm #

     Here’s what I like about a 12 guage shotgun. With regular old shot you can literally decapitate someone (some THING…) and can split a zombie in half. So, don’t limit yourself to just one gun. Get the carbine, but get the 12 guage for fun!!!

253. 3-15 INF on 28 Feb 2010 at 3:37 pm #

     how can you split something in half with a 12 Gauge? I think your’e overestimating it

254. 3-15 INF on 28 Feb 2010 at 9:21 pm #

     Just got the Mossberg 930 SPX- shot a box of 20 Remington 00 Buck and shot great! Came with ghost ring sites, 8 shot tube, pictany rail, breaching muzzle device, sling points, and case for $479.00! I would suggest this shotgun to anyone interested in a short, full stocked, Semi auto, tube fed gun.

255. Angryvikingman on 01 Mar 2010 at 3:08 am #

     Thats a sweet looking shotgun! And you got a good price on it. Only thing I’d do to it is replace the standard stock with a pistol grip stock. I never really liked the way that standard stocks felt. I gotta have a pistol grip.

256. Torben on 17 Mar 2010 at 3:13 am #

     lets not forget QUALITY over QUANTITY- an assult rifle has many many shots but has many many chances of jamming, and MISSING a target. zombies are not coconuts on a stick, they do actually move and unless u KNOW from PRECTICAL FEEDBACK that u are a crack-shot, u will miss most of the time.

     also, MURPHEYS LAW dictates “if something can go wrong, it probably will” again, assult rifles.

     as with the sore shoulder BS, learn to shoot without the sights. with a shotgun this is a piece of piss, as i never shoot against the shoulder but rather from the hip or holding the gun like an african rebel.

     one bullet vs a wall of bullets? c’mon shit. like its been said- u want to shoot only when u NEED TO. picking off zombies is a waste of bullets just fking leg it or buckle down in a shelter.

     i love both rifles and shotguns but rifles are good for hunting stationary prey or battling (IF UR A PRO)

     then again we can, and do, talk and talk about this and that but at the end of the day, whatever u feel most confident with will be the best.

257. 3-15 INF on 19 Mar 2010 at 9:58 am #

     Any gun can jam- I’ve seen revolvers jam.

     Plus, I wouldn’t advise unaimed shots from the hip- not very accurate pact point blank range.

     Semiauto shotguns like the one I just bought have recoil compensators in the buttstock that dampen recoil to a relatively soft push on the shoulder. My SPX doesn’t really kick any harder than my .308.

258. zomb13grunt on 24 Mar 2010 at 1:26 am #

     i think you guys are over looking some very important things when it comes down to having a weapon for zombie defense.. you need to have a weapon that you can easly care for. and find ammo for.. because no matter how much ammo you can carry it will never be enough.. take it from me ive been in the army for some time now.. im on my 3rd tour and i have learned quite a bit about combat loads.. i have a ar 15 with a acog sope and a flash light, and a pistol grip with a drop down bi pod, its easy and it works.. my wife loves it to death and usally shoots it more than me.. my 2nd weapon is an ak.. ( this is no ordnary ak, i have cut down the spring to slow the rate of fire, i have a buffer that as almost completly got ride of the kick.. i have a collapable buttstock and a rail system on it were i mounted a flashlight and a pistol grip.. and i ran a rail on the upper recever as well and placed a eot halo site… and for fun i have an 80 round drum clip.. ) and anyone that has fired an ak knows that at 300 meters your round might be off by an inch.. at the most.. but thats still a kill shot..and well worth the reliablitly that comes with the riffle.. most people just dont know how to use them.. when i get back from iraq im also gonna get a scar-L because there just bad ass.. i have 2 spa-6 nine millies..lol and a short barreled shotgun i use manly for home defence and room clearing.. when it comes down to blasting zack in the head you dont need a weapon that will shoot him at 600 metters out.. save the ammo and press on. you need a riffle that will never let you down when you need it to come through… all erban combat it gun fighting that takes place in less that 100 meters and usllay with in 50.. its gonna be the same way when zack comes.. look out your door.. i bet you cant even see past 150 meters out.. think about it.. thats whey an ak is my number one.. a spa-6 is my back up.. ( only becuase i love the safty that is built into the handle.. it goes off safe when you grab it.. just pull and shoot).. my girl worries about whats out there with the ar 15. i cover close and she keeps more from coming to the party.. at lest thats how we train…

259. 3-15 INF on 05 Apr 2010 at 12:27 pm #

     The round MIGHT be off by an inch at 300M? Are you saying you have a 1/3 MOA AK47? The AK is a 3-4 MOA weapon, ammo and type dependent. Account for wind, and your’e lucky to hit a six inch wide head at 150 M, max. Most people just don’t know how to use them? Please, an eight year old could fire one.

260. 3-15 INF on 14 Apr 2010 at 10:44 am #

     @ zomb13grunt- what did any of that have to do with shotguns? Are you telling me that an AR is easier to use than a 12-Gauge? That the ammo is more readily available than shotgun shells? Maybe in some countries, but 12-Gauge is sooo much easier to find in the US than 7.62x39mm

261. rennie on 11 May 2010 at 9:37 pm #

     ar-15 is a 5.56 or 223 cal u can get in whatever cal uwant but for the most part u will get in 5.56 which is a very deadly round how many people u see walking around that got zipped by that round nil to none 12ga is a close range weapon but very powerful in would get point across very quickly reload time is slow but u get it in magazine feed aa12 an ect….

262. USAF Security Forces on 22 May 2010 at 1:16 pm #

     Hey 3-15 INF, thats where your full of shit. You are probably a damn commie or something. When you use the M-16 mags in it you have to use semi auto because the spring in the mag wont keep up with the rate of fire. It also jams when you go full auto and quit firing before the mag is empty. I dont have to be a poser and say I was in the military. I was. I have the scars and tatoos to prove it. Think before you speek.

     732nd Expeditionary Security Forces June 2006 to Aug 2007

     Do some research.

263. Angryvikingman on 22 May 2010 at 8:56 pm #

     @3-15 INF on comment #255

     Flechette rounds will go through multiples, very easily. Although, they aren’t a standard round.

264. Jared on 24 May 2010 at 5:46 am #

     I didn’t read much of these responses, but I personally think that a shotgun, preferably a sawed-off one is good as a secondary weapon or a “last option” tertiary weapon. Say for example you’re in a small, closed in area like an office building or maybe the back of a kitchen of some restaurant. Close quarter combat is going to happen for sure. Plus the shredding power and the surface area of the BB spread can be way more devastating. The shotgun will do a lot of damage in close quarters. That’s what it was designed for. Using an fully-automatic weapon is just a waste of ammo. Even though shotgun shells are bulky and can weigh a lot, take your time and use your space accordingly when planning to travel. If I’m in a large area such as a downtown area or a highway, The MP4 (on single fire) sounds perfect. Or for the sake of availability and simplicity, a Rimfire rifle would do just fine. But in small close quarters, a shotgun for sure or even a Taurus Judge with 410 shotshells. The terms of reloading speed, capacity and rate of fire are perfectly justified ONLY if you don’t use it as a primary weapon and are relied on it so much. Shotguns should be used according to you surroundings. It’s simple. Whatever the scenario may be. But don’t exclude it from your arsenal completely.

265. 3-15 INF on 20 Jun 2010 at 1:54 pm #

     Yeah i saw that- must make the muzzle end heavy and unbalanced as hell- i dont have a prob with just topping off from a belt when i run low- tactical reloads are easy if you practice

266. 3-15 INF on 23 Jun 2010 at 9:50 am #

     Alright- here we go-

     @ USAF Security Forces-

     Yeah, Air Force Mp’s are really well known for being hard core door kickers.
     Why would you say I’m full of shit?- I don’t need to prove anything.

     The truth is…… the SAW M249 is an open bolt weapon and it is impossible for it to be selective fire. It is AUTO only. Yes, you can use a mag in a pinch, but it feeds like shit.
     If you’ve figured out why some SAWs work and some don’t, your’e a bigger genius than any of us, but it is not due to the rate of fire.

     I carried the thing for a year in afghanistan and know the weapon better than most guys know their wives. The only machinegun that the US employs that can fire SEMI is the .50 MA Duece, and that is because it fires from the closed bolt.
     To tell you the truth, you don’t have to have ‘scars” to know that. Ask Killer B- he’ll tell you, or for that matter, 3ID orr any of the other vets- they’ll tell you that you are mistaken.

267. 3-15 INF on 23 Jun 2010 at 11:10 am #

     @ USAF Security Forces-

     Where exactly would a selector switch on a SAW go?
     The only safety on a SAW is a simple crossbolt SAFE/FIRE on the trigger housing (like the ruger 10/22)

     How exactly would a functions check go on a selective fire SAW- educate me, please.

     The minute you said that I knew you were lying. Anybody can get a tatoo, doesn’t mean shit.

     My name is SSG David Ipock, I have been an Infantryman for 10 years. Google me- I did a couple of interviews my last deployment.

     I’m not claiming to be SF or anything, just a grunt defending your right to sit in your mom’s basement in your underwear and blog about things you have no idea about.

     Don’t come on the internet and say things about me that you are ill informed about you piece of crap- I’m the soldier you tell all your friends at home that you are- you fucking douchebag.

268. the mexican guy on 11 Jul 2010 at 5:34 am #

     first of all shot guns make a hell of a nosie in fact most guns make a bunch of nosie but then again shotguns are usefull sometimes if i had the choise to pick any gun first it will be silence pistols, silence snipers, and those silence guns that sound like thd thd thd when you fire. second i will get handguns and explosives. third i will use sub machine guns and a crowm shot gun .fourth i will use assaults like ak47 m4 scar and others. fifth machine guns like saw and 50. cal and others i won’t hold it like an idiot but i will use them to trick out a car two on the sides one on top of car or truck and one on the back. sixth and last rocket lancher flame thorwer and automatic shout guns the last guns of my choise of guns make a hell of a nosie and i don’t no if flame thorwer make nosie or not but it does come use full . i hope this clear u heads about choise of weaponery . i hope i see you brave street soldiers of fighting zombies i don’t no if i will have the balls to even go out side when the outbreak even if i’m out of water or food i will porpally shit my pants when i see a zombie runing to me or walking to mebut then again i’m only a kid. see you street soldiers on the other side or cuba or mexico or uk xD

269. the mexican guy on 12 Jul 2010 at 6:19 pm #

     holy s**t i for got about meteal weapons like knifes, crowbar, a chair, ax,and pole. and for those guy who don’t no why i said cuba,mexico,and uk is because cuba is a island and one of the strongest armys of the cerribean and certral america. mexico because they have drug labs to test medical drugs to cure flu ‘s because they have a gate and the building is completly made of concert the same thing goes for uk drug lab. remember country island with armys can be well defended like Cuba, Madagascar, crypurs if they have an army,new zeliand, japan, and others remember i’a see u guy on cuba or behine a wall xD xD xD

270. Joshyman on 13 Jul 2010 at 11:01 am #

     A shotgun would be good if u were always on the road cause then u can run away and reload then stop 2 shoot… i would have a backup gun though or if there was a fat zombie i would use the shotgun for that cause a handgun isnt goin 2 work good against the fat

271. Dave on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:16 am #

     I’m with the saiga 12 people.

     A shotgun is perfect for zombie use given the right configuration. In a tense situation such as zombie takeover, you are likely to be jittery and not have the accuracy you normally would with a rifle.

     Reasons to go with saiga 12:

     a.) Semi auto and shoots just as fast as any semi auto rifle

     b.) More accurate because you can shoot buckshot or even home defense rounds intended to expand. Either way, you WONT miss.

     3.) Capacity – all you need to do is put a 20 round drum on it, and have a few mags in your vest. Good to go.

     4.) when you run out ammo, you can have a sharp tactical muzzle break on the end to ram a zombie’s head right off.

     I’d say in comparison, you’re way better off with THIS shotgun. Definitely not just any though.

272. rutger on 28 Jul 2010 at 3:12 am #

     four words, “Saiga 12 gauge shotgun” google that shit bro

273. Angryvikingman on 28 Jul 2010 at 10:53 am #

     @Rutger

     Maybe you should read the comments. Bro.

274. Ein on 08 Aug 2010 at 4:18 am #

     The shotgun is not as bad a choice as many seem to think and itself possesses many clear advantages, though it is hardly surprising that so many veterans of the current zombie cold war regard it as the last weapon they would want in their hands in an outbreak.

     The perception that the shotgun is a ‘less than useful’ weapon (which is just one step from ‘useless’) for purposes of surviving and dealing with an outbreak of living dead possibly has more to do with unfamiliarity of many strange shotgun components and ignorance of vital accessories than it’s actual effective combat potential.

     The criticisms (valid though they are) of the OP being taken into consideration, I strongly disagree with the header and offer this rebuttal (3 years later).

     ——————————————————————————–
     Here are the Top 5 reasons you should consider using a shotgun for Zombie Defense:

     #1) Unparalleled Firepower in close quarters: The only thing that’s going to be more devastating in interior spaces or choked up hallways is likely to be a grenade.

     There are few weapons better suited to carve an escape path through an enclosed environment than a shotgun.

     FYI – In the event of an outbreak, other (very desperate) humans competing for scavenged resources will be a potential combat threat. Just because the shotgun isn’t necessarily as efficient at eliminating zombies as it is at eliminating humans isn’t a good reason to leave it in the closet if you have to flee your home.

     #2) Fast Target Acquisition: When SHTF, being able to shoot from the hip or while moving and still have a fair chance of hitting your target is a huge advantage. Because large amounts of packed shot are dispersed in an expanding cone from the muzzle, sight alignment on the target need not be as exact as would be required from a firearm propelling a single bullet.

     If you are an experienced shotgunner and know your way around a set of chokes, you already know to a degree how easily the pattern of spread delivered by a shotgun can be adjusted. The adjustibility ranges from choked-tight (for maximum close range spread) or full-open (for slugs and specialty rounds) and everything inbetween.

     I would never attempt to imply that an operator could not fail to miss with a shotgun, but the increased ease of striking the target should be obvious.

     #3) Large Variety of Specialist ammunition: In the right hands a shotgun is a modern swiss army knife. Whether you need to launch a signal flare for rescue, breach a locked door for a hasty escape, employ less-than-lethal force on a looter, or even launch a devastating explosive, the shotgun can do it all.

     Having enjoyed immense popularity for so many generations in so many places around the world has given rise to creations from both modern manufacturers and home developers that have created a range of specialist shells over the years that is a staggering display of ingenuity towards the art of utility and the science of lethality.

     There is a larger variety of specialist ammunition for the 12 Gauge Shotgun than any other weapon system on the planet (this includes grenade launchers), unquestionably.

     #4) Ammunition is relatively easy to reload (comparatively): With no brass to need trimming or sizing (from chamber expansion) or needing polish on the casing to ensure correct chamber feeding, reloading shotgun shells is significantly easier than it’s rifled bore cousins. Make no mistake; reloading is a science that requires proper experience and reasonably sophisticated tools (powder, primer, wad, shot, hull, shell-crimper, etc).

     In this area, the shotgun almost stands alone; Blackpowder is hardly a mystical substance in the modern world and there are literally dozens of ways to make black powder. So long as the primers hold out and you can lay your hands on enough wadding and trinkets to fill the business end of the shell, when Armageddon approaches you can blast away for as long as your shell hulls hold out.

     FYI – I have seen Saiga-12′s chamber AND CYCLE (reload itself) on black powder cartridges, possibly due to it’s adjustable gas system.
     Black Powder is Dirty, dirty stuff to run in a gas-cycled shotgun, but it works in a pinch.

     #5) Ability to accept Gauge Reducers and Caliber Adapters: Whether preparing in advance for the coming storm or scavenging a dystopian wasteland in the wake of disaster, the bulk, weight, and availability of ammunition is a vital consideration. These shotgun accessories will allow you to fire an incredibly large variety of ammunition from your shotgun. These accessories range from the very cheap (for shell inserts) to the somewhat expensive (bore inserts).

     Bore inserts are typically designed for break action shotguns (at least the ones I could find) and many will even operate (ejecting the spent shell) upen exposing the chamber(s).
     Prices ranged from under $100 USD to several hundred dollars at the top end.

     Shell inserts can operate in most any type of action, including break-action, pump-action, bolt-action (yes, they exist) and self-loading shotguns (gas cycled actions will obviously require the chamber to be cycled manually after each shot). The advantage of a shell insert over a bore insert comes from being able to fill a magazine with shell inserts.
     Prices ranged from $10-25 dollars per individual shell insert.

     These devices have been around for many, MANY DECADES, and I have currently located gauge reducers/caliber adapters that will allow the following calibers to be cycled in a 12 gauge shotgun (in order of size):

     16 gauge
     20 gauge
     28 gauge
     .410 gauge* (*-bore)
     .357 caliber
     .38 caliber
     .32 caliber
     .22 Rimfire

     With these accessories even if you were forced to barter from other survivors for whatever they can spare (or scavenge from the rotting wasteland) for ammunition you would have an entire range of potential gauges and calibers to work from that you could defend yourself with.

     ——————————————————————————–

     FYI/Full Disclosure: The shotgun is NOT A PANACEA for a combat environment, and it would be foolish to approach any weapon system as a cure for all battlefield ailments. No firearm, be it rifle, pistol, revolver, shotgun or machinegun is without operating limitations.

     There are not only advantages, and any kind of tool has drawbacks.
     The shotgun is no exception.

     ——————————————————————————–
     Here are the top 3 biggest shortcomings of a shotgun and considerations related to those shortcomings:

     #1) Limited Ballistic Range: With a maximum effective range of around 50 yards (for shot) and around 100 yards (for slugs), range is the achilles heel of limitations that is most likely to affect shotgun performance.

     Using a wad of ‘shot’, as the distance between you and your target increases, the combat potential of the shotgun will grow of smaller, eroding it’s advantage.
     Eventually, the range between you and your target will grow so great that the pellets will either not reach your target with enough force to be lethal, the shot pellets will have dispersed too far apart to be effective, or the they will not reach at all.

     Slugs are often suggested as a stop-gap measure which can allow the shotgun to be used at longer ranges similar to a rifle, but even the best slugs can’t compare with the range of even the cheapest centerfire rifle cartridges, and accuracy with a slug at it’s maximum range will be questionable at best.

     Some specialty rifled slugs and even fin-stabilized projectiles have been developed over the years, but even the most aerodynamically designed shotgun cartridge loads top their range at just under 150 yards.

     Should the slug actually manage to connect with it’s target (even beyond it’s maximum effective range) expect the results to be predictably devastating, but long range slug fire against moving targets with a shotgun will be challenging even for experienced shooters, and unless you have real confidence in your slug throwing ability with a shotgun it should be avoided.

     Shotgun = #1 in crowded and confined spaces
     Shotgun = Dead last in empty and wide open spaces

     #2) Limited Ammunition Capacity: Compared to modern rifles, the shotgun has an incredibly limited magazine capacity (or none at all in the case of single and double barreled shotguns).

     In order from largest to smallest capacity, you could expect the shotguns listed below to hold the listed number of shells in an INTERNAL (usually tube) magazine.

     Bolt-Action Shotgun – (1 to 3 shells) +1 in chamber
     Lever-Action Shotgun – (3 to 5 shells) +1 in chamber
     Pump-Action Shotgun – (6 to 8 shells) +1 in chamber
     Self-Loading Shotgun – (6 to 8 shells) +1 in chamber

     This list is NOT a reflection of every shotgun of these manufacture;

     FYI – Many shotguns either possess capacities above what is listed on the charts (or can be modified to), the chart is merely an average capacity range of what you might expect to find when you go shopping for a shotgun.

     Shotguns with detachable magazines vary wildly in size much as any magazine fed weapon system. Notable examples include:

     Saiga-12 (2, 3, 5, 8, and 10 round magazine; 20 round drum)+1
     USAS-12 (8 round magazines; 20 round drum) +1
     AA-12 (8 round magazines; 20 and 32 round drum) +0 (open bolt)

     #3) Shotgun Ammunition is Large, Heavy, Bulky: For approximately the same weight and bulk as carrying a box of 25 shotgun shells, you can carry 100 rounds of modern rifle ammunition, or 150 to 200+ rounds of modern pistol ammunition, or 1000+ .22 Rimfire.

     Gauge Reducers and Caliber Adapters can reduce some concerns over ammunition bulk and help stretch your combat engagement factor since it is possible to use bore or shell inserts and carry some amount of less bulky ammunition, but these measures will never completely eliminate the bulk problem of carried shotgun ammunition.

     Compounding the problem of cumbersome equipment is the increased weight and bulk of the vast range of accessories available for a shotgun; these include but are not limited to:

     Specialty Cartridges – Flares, Breaching, Explosive, LtL, etc.
     Choke set – Tight, Full, Paradox, etc.
     Gauge Reducers – 12ga to 20ga, 12ga to .410, 12ga to .22 LR, etc.

     These articles are IN ADDITION to weapon accessories (some of which are needed maintain any firearm). Things like:

     Spare Magazines/Spare ammo – Never leave home without it.
     Optic Sighting Devices – Magnification Scopes, rangefinders, lasers
     Gun Cleaning Kit – Cotton Gloves, Swab, Oil, bore and chamber brush

     Without a doubt, the combined bulk of a combat shotgun and it’s accessories can weigh an operator down to the point of limiting their other carry options, so it’s important to plan ahead and eliminate extraneous gear from your ruck BEFORE you take it, and be as certain as you can that you’ve chosen mission appropriate tools for the job.

     If you fear you might have to abandon your home for an expended period of time the motto “Rather have it and not need than need it and not have it” applies to your land movement speed and fatigue rate as well as your carried equipment. It’s not a bad idea to prepare and pack for possible eventualities, but if you’re too heavy to move quickly enough to escape, all that planning and preparation will be for nought.

     ——————————————————————————–

     I’ve been researching this subject for the last few weeks as an exercise in academia, and I came across this topic yesterday when I used the search terms ‘zombie shotgun’ after it became clear there is a deep division between readers in the anti-zombie preparation movement concerning shotguns.

     I hope my research has been informative, though I must admit there are some opinions and approximations mixed into the statements above. I tried my best to separate my opinions and perceptions from actual data and probability, but I’ve yet to read a document without a little opinion sprinkled in.

     I can provide links to any of the accessories mentioned, they are commercially available and relatively affordable (depending on your budget).

     -ein

275. 3-15 INF on 16 Aug 2010 at 12:38 pm #

     The term AD NAUSEUM comes to mind…..

276. akosmensky on 02 Sep 2010 at 9:19 am #

     A point that I have not seen addressed is availability of ammunition. When my party raids a gun store or other ammo repository, we will be much more likely to find large stores of shotgun ammo, particularly twelve and twenty gauge shells, than we would be to find say, 5.56mm rounds for an M4. I want to be able to keep shooting long after my fully automatic assault rifle bearing counterparts have run out of ammo.

     Alec

277. Bullseye on 02 Sep 2010 at 4:42 pm #

     I prefer a Saiga 12 gauge with three, 20 round drums. If you’re good, like me, you can get off 60 rounds in just under 30 seconds. I use #1 buck because in all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit a zombie/attacker/methhead/crackhead/rapist/terrorist or just plain ol’ bad guy’s body.

278. Jerod on 06 Sep 2010 at 6:06 am #

     AA-12 shotgun..enough said lol. Low recoil and can also deliver a 9 foot blast radius with shrapnel from the frag 12 shot. Id even throw some bird shots all around in there and still eat zombies but i will agree a little heavy if your on the move but in 175 yards nothings coming your way without getting put back. AA-12 with Ar-15 and you have a chance of survival dont forget all the ammo weight food/water cant survive alone need some buddys with firepower as well.

279. John on 10 Sep 2010 at 6:14 pm #

     I have a Saiga 12 exactly for this reason.

     my zombie defense plan includes a variety of different weapons depending on range of target and situation.

     I carry a 1911 .45 at all times.

     saiga 12 and I have a 20 rd. drum in addition to additional 10 rd mags

     an M4 and a M1A with bipod and scope for loooong range.

280. Cadence on 16 Sep 2010 at 12:12 am #

     You do realize that there are SEMI AUTO SHOTGUNS, not just pump? right? LEGAL 20 ROUND MAG FED SEMI AUTO SHOTGUNS…….

     Here’s the other fact Chief, all that adrenaline pumping that wouldn’t allow you to load a shotgun shell in an outdated pump action…. wouldn’t that affect your aim with a pea shooter? not a problem with a wide spread buckshot slewing shotgun, which I say again COMES IN SEMI AUTO MAG FED 20 PLUS ROUNDS PER MAG

     I REST MY CASE.

281. big bear29 on 11 Oct 2010 at 2:09 am #

     There is one issue with the shotgun that I wish to address and that is how you can modify some of your ammo . All that bird shot ammo in stores that wouldn’t be all that useful against zombies can be modified . Its really simple , though i’m pretty sure it is illegal to do this , what you do is remove the pellets from the plastic wad and replace them with metal washers like you use on nuts and bolts . You should use washers 5/8 ths of an inch in diameter , which by the way makes them larger than a 50. cal bullet , depending on the thickness of the washers used you should be able to fit anywhere from fifteen to twenty in the wad . As a child I saw one of these modified shells fired at a piece of plywood three quarters of an inch thick , it left a hole so big that you could throw a thanksgiving turkey through it without hitting anything . Now in close quarters with one of these shells you could potentially wipe out a half dozen zombies with each shot . By doing this simple modification you could make those useless bird shot rounds into your most devastating ammo .

282. Angryvikingman on 11 Oct 2010 at 9:29 am #

     Or just use Flechettes. Google it.

283. big bear29 on 11 Oct 2010 at 11:11 am #

     @ Angryvikingman

     I did google it and one thing I noticed over and over again was how people who used the flechettes would rather use buckshot instead . This was mainly because the shotgun flechettes had low velocity , limited penetration at range despite being a steel projectile and some of the things don’t stabilize and hit their target backwards or turned side ways . Also when these were used in combat they would do significant tissue damage and not penetrate deep enough to kill , but the enemies would keep fighting till they bled out and on top of all that these flechettes lack stopping power . So in the end I would rather use a shotgun shell loaded with washers than flechettes because it can be reloaded faster , has more penetration , range and stopping power and the washers would be easier to come by after the world goes to hell in a handbasket .

284. big bear29 on 11 Oct 2010 at 2:51 pm #

     Also if you come across a single or double barrel break-open shotgun you could use that as a last ditch close range weapon . All that you need to do is take a hacksaw and cut off most of the barrel down to the wooden grip and cut away the stock until all you are left with is a pistol grip . Now if you run out of ammo for your handgun you will have something to fall back on .

285. big bear29 on 17 Oct 2010 at 12:38 pm #

     The best known semi-auto shotguns on the market are the saiga , street sweeper and the aa-12 . The aa-12 and the street sweeper are harder to find and on the off chance you can find one you will need several thousand dollars just to get one . However the saiga is easier to find and only a fraction of the cost of one of the other two . Most saiga’s I have seen in gun stores have gone for two to three hundred dollars , sometimes four hundred when supplies where scarce .

     Now those of you who think the pancor jackhammer is the gun you want let me point out a few things . First the jackhammer never made it past the prototype stage , so nobody manufactures it and nobody sells it . Two the jackhammer used specially made shotgun shells that had extra propellant in them to make the gas operated reloading system work so when you run out of that special ammo all you have is a cool looking club . Three the jackhammer could hold a ten round drum where as the three shotguns listed above can hold vastly more ammo . Four the jackhammer was full-auto only , which means that you would likely end up wasting a lot of ammo .

286. HahahaaaaheadShot on 09 Nov 2010 at 10:24 am #

     So so so wrong mr. assault riffle boo boo. If zombies were taking over and I had access to any 2 guns that I wanted, ladies and gentlemen, the zombies have all been killed. I would rock a pair of AA12′s sporting the 35rnd drums. And a back back with some extra clips and drums and loose shells. (Just in case)

287. Ecks on 12 Nov 2010 at 8:38 am #

     The validity of the article is for the most part true. Yes a shotgun in any form has great stopping power. However this power comes at a price, that price is recoil! Lets face it shooting a shotgun all day is not fun!

     The M4/AR 15/M16 rifle is a good choice in my opinion, however other good rifles also include the SKS with an extended mag. Yes I know these are harder to get in the US (I’m from Canada and don’t have this problem). The SKS fires the same round as the AK 47 and these rounds are dirt cheap to buy compared to 5.56/223 ammo. The SKS due to it’s design is also far more accurate than an AK and is only semi-auto, thereby taking care of the spray and pray problem.

     Since the only way to stop the undead (short of causing massive systemic trauma to them,ie dropping a piano on one) is with a head shot even a 22 LR is more than appropriate and due to it’s light weight one can carry a large amount of ammo on them. As for which model of 22 rifle I would use. Hands down it’s the Ruger 10/22. There is a large selection of aftermarket add on for it and there are also hi-capacity mags available as well.

288. rutger on 13 Nov 2010 at 3:59 pm #

     SAIGA 12 GAUGE CLIP LOADING 20 ROUND SEMI AUTO ZOMBIE RAMPAGE

289. Angryvikingman on 13 Nov 2010 at 5:34 pm #

     I suggest anyone that gets a Saiga 12 get a few mags and practice reloading. Even with the magwell version, they’re tricky at best to reload.

290. jp on 22 Nov 2010 at 1:07 pm #

     I agree with the whole article but in my favor i think the best weapon would have to be the good ole’ pistol (dont matter which) Easy and quick to reload. Easy to obtain (from what i heard) and in a worst case scenario when out on the streets it will probably be the easiest ranged weapon to find being all law enforcement uses it. Its also easy to carry because of its size.

291. Scott on 28 Nov 2010 at 12:16 pm #

     Shotguns are great for killing something or someone, makes a big hole, takes off a large chunk of body or whatever. But, Remington 870′s are prone to over heating and jamming once they over heat.

292. 3-15 INF on 09 Dec 2010 at 2:00 pm #

     Jeez, how many rounds would you have to fire to jam and overheat an 870? I’d like to see that! A shotgun’s best advantage is the ability to shoot moving targets with sufficient lead (adjusting for point of aim, not the metal). A shotgun woulod be a great weapon while running but the good ‘ol semiauto assault rifle is king in almost every other situation. Good weapon. though. You wouldn’t be disappointed with the results. yet, you’d have to fire something better than the rounds you use for skeet- at least #4 buckshot. Slugs defeat the purpose of using a shotgun in the first place.

293. big bear29 on 09 Dec 2010 at 4:30 pm #

     I have never heard of anyone overheating and jamming an 870 . You would probably have to go through a crapload of ammo first to get that to happen .

294. big bear29 on 09 Dec 2010 at 4:31 pm #

     There are ways to make slugs into explosive slugs but I don’t recommend it because .
     1. It is illegal to make them and have them in most places .
     2.Plenty of people have blown up their guns and taken off one or more of their hands because they messed up when they were making the slugs .
     3. Unless you are fighting a heavily armored enemy and the shotgun is all that you have there would be little to no need for such ammo .

295. No Shotguns For Zombies | hellinahandbasket.net on 17 Dec 2010 at 2:46 am #

     [...] (“Which rifle is the best for the coming Zombiepocalypse!“)  Case in point is this post at a blog where the entire subject matter is zombie invasion.  The author argues against choosing a shotgun, and lists his reasons as to why.  As of this [...]

296. JimShyWolf on 17 Dec 2010 at 10:12 pm #

     Gee, Big Bear- if I’m in the midst of a Zombie attack, I sure as hell ain’t gonna worry about what the hell is ‘legal’ in what I use to shoot the lib bastards.
     However, to carry your third point to its logical conclusion, I have to agree: If you’re gonna worry about a Zombie invasion or having to defend against them, you’ve got more serious problems than a Zombie horde coming for you and having anything short of an atomic bomb isn’t going to help in any way whatever.
     Gawd, I can’t believe I posted to such tripe as this- you guys are hilarious!
     :-D
     Shy III

297. JimShyWolf on 17 Dec 2010 at 10:16 pm #

     Oh, golly- forgot to mention… My Xombie weapon if choice is the 7.62×39 SKS, which is very easy to get in the good ol’ USofKA despite what the libtards are trying to do.
     Second choice: .357 magnum hollow point 158 grain jacketed or a 158 grain semi wad cutter- makes a very impressive hole in ANYthing.
     Shy III

298. Shotguns Pown on 18 Dec 2010 at 10:29 pm #

     Shotguns may not be a premium weapon for everybody but they are still great zombie killers. Although a shotgun has limited ammo each shot can push zombies back so instead of three bullets killing three zombies, one shell blasts back three zombies and gives you time to escape. Your goal in the apocalypse is survival not zombie hunting. With enough experience loading a tube magazine can become quick. Also shotguns such as AA-12 and saiga-12 use clip magazines. Not all shotguns are pump-action. Benelli m4 and saiga-12 are two examples of semi-automatic shotguns. Some shotguns such as AA-12 are even fully-automatic. Because your goal should only be survival you want a powerful weapon that can push zombies out of your way, you do not need to kill them all. Also why would you ever need long range. If a zombie is too far away to be hit with a shotgun why waste a shot shooting it and attracting more zombies. Although it will hurt your shoulder a shotgun is good for inexperienced shooters. This is because the shot spreads out making it easier to score a hit. Obviously we can conclude that for a survivor on the move the shotgun is a great choice of weapon.

299. big bear29 on 23 Dec 2010 at 2:09 am #

     A lot of the people on this site talk about how you would be operating on an adrenaline high during the outbreak and because of that your shooting would suck . So would you want a weapon that can only take out one zombie at a time or would you want one that could take out multiple zombies at once . I would take a high capacity shotgun over an m4 or ar . People whine about how it only has a range of two hundred yards , well if you are shooting at something further away than that you can either avoid it or use a sniper rifle . Assault rifles are not the answer to every zombie outbreak . Plus reloading the shells of a shotgun is easier than reloading those of an assault rifle and you can easily mod your shotgun ammo where as you can’t really do much with the rounds of a machine gun .

300. 3-15 INF on 26 Dec 2010 at 6:34 pm #

     200 yards? try 40! slugs maybe. a shotgun is fine, if you understand its strengths and limitations. You, my friend, understand neither.

301. Angryvikingman on 26 Dec 2010 at 7:30 pm #

     lol, pwnt.

302. Lucky SOB on 03 Jan 2011 at 2:25 pm #

     I dont beleave that the world will end at 2012, but I
     beleave that a zombie apocolipce will come. when that day comes
     (and if I am still alive) I would have a 1) A good assulte rifle
     with a undermount shotgun and undermount flamethrower, yes I said
     flamethrower (if its not made by Z day I will make one my self.) 2)
     A rifle for long range 3) AA-12 for when I need to run and gun 4) 2
     Desert Egals as a backup 5) A VERY good sord Once I have
     established a safe house which zombies cant get to easly, I would
     go to a military base and raid the armory to get 1)Plastic
     explosives 2)Gernades 3)RPG 4)If I can find one, a mini gun
     Remember any thing can be used as a weapon. also make your own
     weapons. Because your best weapon could be your eginuity.

303. Angryvikingman on 03 Jan 2011 at 7:15 pm #

     Slugs: If you really have your shotgun dialed in and you are a great shot, then you might make a kill shot with a shotgun at 200 yards. The average person, shooting at another person with their adrenaline pumping is most likely not going to make that shot.

     Buckshot: At 50 yards the spread on buckshot is 20 inches. Lets assume that you are using 3 inch shells with 15 pellets. Yes, that will probably kill at that range, but past that you’re going to have a wider spread. If fired horizontally, then the mass of the buck shot will bring it down at around 70 yards. Your max distance with Buckshot is going to be 50 yards.

     Target loads: Well, 30-40 yards will kill/maim if you are using a 28 inch barrel with full choke. No choke and shorter barrel = shorter range.

     These are the accepted maximum ranges for the cartridges and types of shotguns that fire them. I looked it up.

304. Ben on 15 Jan 2011 at 3:00 pm #

     I must disagree with your choice of an M-4. Personally, I would much rather trust my life in the hands of an AK47. While the M4 is certainly a fine weapon capable of great precision and accuracy, it is known to be a finicky weapon that will jam if it gets dirty. I would much rather sacrifice a little bit of long range accuracy and take the more rugged, reliable weapon. Have fun clearing the jam in your M4, or field stripping it and cleaning it, with hordes of undead hunting you down.

305. 3-15 INF on 19 Jan 2011 at 1:56 pm #

     Exactly right, Angry- in order to get anything close to a chance of hitting something the size of a head at 100+ meters with a slug, you’d need a rifled barrel and a scope. Rifled barrels are only good for slugs because the rifling cause shot to pattern in a ring shape and have 0% shot in the center of the target. We’ve discussed the fact that it’s easy to change barrels( takes less than 30 seconds) on most sporting shotguns.
     I’m not discounting a shotgun- i have a mossberg spx that is awesome- I’m just saying don’t overestimate it. It’s fantastic for hitting moving targets at closer ranges less than 50 Meters. Those ranges that Angry stated are right on.
     Oh, and how is anyone here going to get ahold of exploding experimental shotgun shells that have never been fielded and only exist at some R&D shooting range?

306. TZH on 25 Jan 2011 at 2:58 am #

     If the mission calls for one to quickly destroy targets in close range to clear a path to another place, such as an emergency exit or to rescue a loved on barricaded inside a building, I will take a shotgun, pistol, and a one-hit-kill melee weapon. Preferably with a bunch of friends with the same loadout.

     No other weapon excels at CQB than the shotty because of how quickly you can blast heads with them. It will not be easy to do with a rifle firing a single round. SMGs and pistols too. They don’t walk in straight lines and their undead limbs makes things way more wobblier!

     I prefer a tube-fed one so I can feed it w/ ammo during movement intervals.

     See, the purpose of indoor or CQB is to get from one area to another. This can happen a lot. Rescue missions, penetrating dangerous resource buildings like malls or hospitals, room clearing, defending against break-ins, etc.

     Perhaps the other most common scenario would be picking them off from long range during transit or when defending your perimeter wall. For that a rifle would be best suited.

     Oh yeah this is very important: forget your fancy EOTech and Aimpoint sights. WTSHTF, batteries will become scarce. I’d endorse training with IRON SIGHTS because these last forever. And our real goal is to ENDURE the crisis.

     “To outlive the living dead.” hahaha.

307. Angryvikingman on 25 Jan 2011 at 10:45 am #

     Well, my aimpoint has 2 years of CONSTANT ON battery life, and I have enough batteries for it to last a decade. So you do what you want, I will still have juice.

308. big bear29 on 25 Jan 2011 at 11:30 am #

     A lot of the laser sights and scopes use double A batteries . So why don’t you just get a small solar panel like they sell at academy and a battery charger and charge up your batteries after they run down . So many people act like they have never heard of rechargable batteries on this site . I have some cheap worthless batteries that have lasted for years with regular recharging .

309. 3-15 INF on 29 Jan 2011 at 2:38 pm #

     good common sense points, TZH

310. John Clementi on 02 Mar 2011 at 12:58 pm #

     I agree the remington 870 would not be the weapon of choice against a horde of zombies. I wouldn’t agree to all shotguns being a bad choice though. The Auto Assault-12 (AA-12) is an automatic 12-gauge shotgun that can fire 300 rounds per minute and is recoilless. Basically, it’s incredibly powerful and you really, really, don’t want to be at the wrong end of it. It’s also claimed that it requires no cleaning or lubrication ever which is perfect when always on the move. also it is drum loaded which is way faster to reload. The drums come in 20,30, and 50 round drums. use the right loads against the zombies what you will have is a perfect video shot to the song Let The Bodies Hit the Floor.

     Bottom line is when you are choosing what types of weapons to use in a zombie apocalypse you need to think ammo. You are not going to have the luxury of always finding ammo of certain types of weapons. You have to think of weapons that use ammo from guns that are commonly owned and used. The police, gun shops, and private homes would be your best bet to hunt for ammo. what you will always count on finding will be shotgun rounds, 9mm rounds, 45 acp rounds, 38 rounds, 357 rounds, and if you are lucky .223 rounds. Maybe if you live in a hunting community you can find .308 rounds. Some areas around my way on Long Island you can bet your bottom dollar you can find 5.56 rounds which if used with a herstel Pn-90 you have firepower that can go through 48 layers of kevlar like warm butter. Think practical not hollywood when you are dealing with not only the undead invasion , but all types of invasions.

     Yes, you can probably find 22 long rifle ammo, but against a horde of hungry zombies that’s like using a bb gun. The stopping power is just not there, and the damage will be minimum. maybe if you use a ruger 10/22 from a safe location and distance a head shot will be affective when you double tap. When you are up close and personal it’s about as affective as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest when up against 10 to 30 zombies.

311. sam762 on 05 Mar 2011 at 4:54 pm #

     I can tell after reading this that whoever wrote it has never shot a shotgun in real life

312. 3- 15 INF on 17 Mar 2011 at 11:21 am #

     Carrying the aa-12 with a drum would be huge and heavy- youd just get chased down- plus, the thing fires from the open bolt, making it illegal for civilians to own without paying a tax stamp- and i’m prtty sure theyre unavailable- anyone who says they own one is a liar.

313. Angryvikingman on 17 Mar 2011 at 2:46 pm #

     Like that guy who said he had 2 G18s, lol! (another article)

     Like I’ve been telling everyone, just get a saiga 12 with an MD arms 5 port gas plug. Then it will fire any kind of ammo you put in it. Get a bunch of 12rnd stick mags and 1 drum when you need to really just mess the place up. Also, the best sight system on a saiga12 are the HK front/rear sights. Good and open for CQC and you can pop a slug in there, crank the diopter and put it in where you need it. Unless the ATF gives us the shaft, they’re still available to the public, and you can pimp them out in all kinds of neat ways.

314. big bear29 on 06 Apr 2011 at 1:07 am #

     I once heard of some nut that was trying to make a 12 gauge minigun . If I find anything about it I will try to post it . But that thing sounds like it would be a collosal fail . The recoil would probably tear the gun apart and it would really only be useful for carpeting an area with projectiles since the recoil would throw off anyones ability to aim the thing .

     I also heard of a guy that made a double barrel pump shotgun he calls the moe szyslak special . Apparently there are now several people making their own double barrel pump shotguns .

315. Angryvikingman on 06 Apr 2011 at 1:28 am #

     Not to mention you couldn’t hold it upright because of the centripedal force. I’ve seen a beltfed one on youtube, but I can’t get the dude to respond to msgs.

316. yhn on 08 Apr 2011 at 10:11 pm #

     you can buy semi auto shotguns that hold like 7 shells.

317. Death on 19 Apr 2011 at 8:20 am #

     There is a shotgun that is perfect for killing zombies. try the AA12

318. JasonDre on 20 Apr 2011 at 10:46 am #

     I have a Saiga12 with 3 20 rd drums, and about 15 mags ranging in 10-12rd capacities. I think I’ll keep my S12 for a zombie outbreak..those damn brain suckers aint getting me!

319. Lessjackson on 22 Apr 2011 at 1:15 am #

     “Anyone owning a AA-12 is a liar”

     Then I am a liar……

     Just cause your stupid state wont sell you one, please do not make things up…..

     Generation E spits out false info so much..

320. big bear29 on 23 Apr 2011 at 5:07 pm #

     @Lessjackson
     The only ones that are supposed to have any aa-12s are the military . They can not be legally sold to civilians and they are non-transferable . So either you are lying or you should keep your mouth shut about it to avoid drawing the attention of the authorities .

     The USAS-12 which is what the aa-12 is based off of is something that can be bought by civilians but the aa-12 can’t . There are supposed to be only twenty aa-12s and they are all supposed to be in the hands of the army under going evaluation .

     If you don’t know what you have , you can find out pretty easily . The drums and mags of th usas-12 insert just like an AR . But the
     aa-12 slids into place along a rail .

321. 3-15 INF on 26 Apr 2011 at 10:28 am #

     YEP! Your’e a liar!

322. LessJackson on 28 Apr 2011 at 2:48 am #

     Like I said, Generation E has no clue and spits out words as if they are facts

323. Angryvikingman on 28 Apr 2011 at 9:07 am #

     @lessjackson Hey, retard, before you come here with your one liners, maybe you ought to present some facts. Let me do it first.

     An AA-12 is a fully automatic shotgun. FULL AUTO, which means you have to have a class 3 FFL. In addition, a fully auto shotgun is further considered a destructive device, which you need a whole other kind of class 3 FFL for. So, you would have had to purchase a regular FFL and then 2 class 3 FFLs, and the gun.

     Let me break that down for you:
     Regular FFL: $200
     Class 3 FFL: $500
     Destructive Device FFL: $3000
     Weapon Cost: $3800
     Also, the company who sells them, doesn’t sell to anyone who isn’t classified as a manufacturer, LE, or Military, so you’d have to have another FFL that classifies you as a manufacturer, so thats another $800. Lets add all that up,mmmmmmmkay?

     Thats $8300 for an AA-12, so, money bags, wanna lend me some cash? Oh yeah, don’t forget about the interviews, inspections, and waiting periods for all of those FFLs, so you’re looking at almost a year wait for all of the paperwork to even go through.

     Jesus dude, maybe do some research before you come here running your mouth like a retard.

     Yeah, any ole Joe can get one, for $8300 and a year long wait. Oh, yeah, those FFLs have a renewal period too, so if you don’t renew, the ATF comes and takes your shit.

324. Angryvikingman on 28 Apr 2011 at 9:16 am #

     Oh, and BTW, if there was a semi-auto version, I would have heard about it, so don’t even go there.

325. 3-15 INF on 29 Apr 2011 at 12:45 pm #

     Aw man that hurt to watch

326. Angryvikingman on 29 Apr 2011 at 7:54 pm #

     You can’t say he didn’t have it coming. What a freaking idiot.

327. phlum on 02 May 2011 at 11:08 am #

     I’d like to point out that while the M4 is a substantial zombie defense weapon, it will only last for so long and, as you rightly address, it’s not particularly easy to get hold. What is easy to get hold of, is a simple crossbow. All you really need to do to stop a zombie is knock their legs out, right? So, build a crossbow and ensure that it won’t break (even if it does, you could still build another) – then build some quarrels and attach rocks to them.
     Problem solved.

328. Preparedness 101: Zombie Apocalypse « Freedom Is Just Another Word… on 18 May 2011 at 7:50 am #

     [...] Guns baby! Multiple weapons!! [...]

329. mike on 01 Jun 2011 at 8:46 pm #

     magazine capacity…. infinite. you can put a new round in during a smalll deadspot…. where as with a rifle the clip will run dry. then (CLICK) “Oh NO”

     you forget you have to reload your clips for the rifle, plus in longterm survival you will want a 12 gauge because there will be alot out there.

     rate of fire….. you need 1 shot per zombie… if your lucky 1 shot per 2 zombies. with rifle bullets they won’t have that big thud in them and might still come at you.

     a real life zombie would proabably not be undead, but just infected. in other words a shotgun blast to the stomach is the best. Also range wont be much of a factor, the big problem will be when they jump out of a cupboard. the shotgun will be quite handy then, dont need alot of aiming.

     ease of use…. point the little brass ball at the zombies’ bellies and squeeze the trigger…

     True downside. you accidently shoot another survivor…. you cant patch it up. with a rifle you have a small chance to first aid him/her up until you get to a survivor colony.

330. killiansampo on 02 Jun 2011 at 12:43 am #

     Not sure what others said, so ill just tyoe my thoughts. It is important to remember that all the rules of basic survival still apply in a Z-Day situation, and in a basic survival situation, you need to worry about hunting, and self defence from people, and for hunting and self defence, I’d take a Remington 870 with the basic tube and a quality choke. With basic 3″ shells you can take small game. Make them high-base and you can easily kill people and larger animals. with a slug and a cheap scope, you can move on to big game, like Elk and Deer. The Reminton 870 and many other pump action shotguns will almost never jam, and as long as you maintain them well (as you should any weapon), they will last you a very long time.
     Strictly speaking about the zombie aspect of the situation, while it is definitely not the best weapon, it is certainly a fine one. Concerning the fire rate, blasting away at a horde with a full auto weapon is nothing but a waste of ammo. An amateur can fire a pump action shotgun as fast as a one can fire a sem-auto assault-rifle. And I can say confidently that any weapon will bruise your shoulder if you dont hold it properly. I shoot trap for hours with a Remington 870 without any soreness. I do agree with the problems of the very limited ammo capacity and reload time, but every weapon has its issues. It is also important to remember the weight of the gun itself. 8 lbs. may not seem like much, but when you shoot a large weapon you quickly realise just how much 8 pounds is.

331. Anonymous on 02 Jun 2011 at 3:36 am #

     I’m no gun expert, but wouldn’t a Mini-14 do well against zombies?

332. New Zombie gun! - PNW Guns on 20 Jun 2011 at 5:49 am #

     [...] [...]

333. secret on 03 Jul 2011 at 5:35 pm #

     i mostly agree with you. but if you think about it a shotgun can take out several targets at once.so if you have a crouded area a shotgun could take out as much as three at a time with the amount of spread a shotgun has. an M-4/M-16 could also take out several targets vith the valocity it has. personaly i would recomend an M-14. it fires a heavy 7.62 nato round (the round of the well known AK47).it is a heavy round but it is a relitivly light weapon. it can also be used as a sniper rifle if a scope is attached. im only 11 so i dont if this means anything to you.

334. Shotguns Pown on 26 Jul 2011 at 10:38 pm #

     You claim it takes to long too load a shotgun, but almost all civilian hunting weapons don’t use clips and load equally as slow. Even with clip weapons, clips still need to be filled.

335. Ed on 27 Jul 2011 at 2:33 pm #

     I own a Remington 870 and would not recommend it for killing zombies. The pump action is too slow and makes it harder to keep it aimed at your target(s) when chambering the next round. If you need to use a shotgun, go with a semiautomatic model or – if you can find one – a fully automatic, high capacity, military-use-only assault shotgun. Oh, and definitely go with buckshot for your ammo. It kicks less and has a greater likelihood of scoring a head shot than a slug but the 9 pieces of larger shot are far more likely to penetrate the skull than bird shot.

     The biggest drawback of a shotgun, or any long gun, however, is the noise. You can hear a shotgun or rifle blast for miles, and that means attracting a lot more zombies to your position.

     With that in mind, as well as needing a weapon for which it’s relatively easy to find ammo, I’m a big fan of the high capacity, semi-auto .22 rifle with a good scope in combination with a semi-auto .22 pistol with a laser sight. They’re both quiet and can be made moreso with suppressors and loading rounds for subsonic speed. Ammo is cheap, plentiful and readily available, interchangeable between the pistol and rifle, and since only headshots matter, they’re every bit as lethal out to 100 yards.

336. beast on 01 Aug 2011 at 3:55 pm #

     Well I would carry A 20 gauge and A 12 gauge for my back up but im onley eleven so Id use my 1187 12 gauge But If I was going To hold out I would stay on my roof with all of my guns loaded first popin there heads off at a rang then use my shot guns

337. 3-15 INF on 02 Aug 2011 at 9:39 am #

     just adding this-
     i know your’e only 11, so not trying to be hard on you.
     the m14 shoots a 7.62x 51mm round.
     the ak47 shoots a 7.62x39mm round

     the rounds aren’t interchangeable, but both are entirely capable of what you speak of.

338. Icelander on 16 Aug 2011 at 8:11 am #

     As a person located in Iceland, the only available veapon is, unfortunately, the humble shotgun. With gun regulation very strict, hunting shotguns are the only real possibility without resulting to the black market (yes, I can’t even buy handguns). Even if I would prefer the M4, it is simply out of my capacity to aquire it. So the shotgun is the only real option. Could you guys post an article on how to make the best of the shotgun?

     Sincerely, a survivor in Iceland.

339. troyM on 20 Aug 2011 at 2:43 pm #

     i may be a lil late to this debate and this point may have been made and i missed it but the shot gun is also handy in the fact that when fleeing zombies you dont have to kill it to get away. what i mean by that is if i were to disconnect the zombies legs or lower body it is much slower. this mean i have more run time and i can get away. we cant really be choosy on ammo types so you may have a load of buck shot or similar rounds instead of slugs. you can use them to dismember the ghoul and thus retreat. i mean im not saying that the down zombie isnt a threat just hes less of a threat then his standing counter parts.

340. link on 11 Sep 2011 at 2:13 am #

     I humbly stand by the reasoning that a firearm is never my first choice of a weapon. A firearm in a zombie invasion is, for me, a last resort when other options fail. A melee weapon is always the best choice for a number of reasons. A melee weapon cannot jam, it is easily replaced if broken, it is a guaranteed hit on the sluggish traditional zombie, and cannot run out of ammo (unless, again, it breaks. Pro tip: get a metal weapon like a pole, metal bat, or sign post.)

     And what if you don’t already own a firearm? What if you never had the money or the want for a firearm? What will you do? If you’re like most people who don’t own a gun, you’ll say, “I’ll run to a Wal-Mart and find a gun and ammo in an emergency.” You and a few hundred thousand other people would have had the same idea. Ammo and weapons WILL be hard to come by given the popularity of this idea. Unless you are stockpiling weapons and ammo right now, you will stand little to no chance of finding a working firearm and the ammo to supply it when an emergency arises.

     Your only recourse is, obviously, a weapon you can swing at the zombies to dismember, disable, behead, or to induce heavy trauma with. It has to be heavy or sharp enough to cause serious damage, but light and portable enough to use at a moment’s notice and on the run. And you will be doing a LOT of running.

     Which brings us to the next indispensable weapon in your arsenal: fitness. Cardio is going to be your best friend in the apocalypse. You WILL be chased, and you WILL be killed if you can’t outrun your new undead friends.

     I will go with Bear Gryll’s assessment of your average survival situation. Your first priority is protection. That is covered by a melee weapon, and a backup firearm that is small, easy to use, and has a very common type of ammunition that will be easier to find than a fancier type such as .223. Some light body armor would not hurt either. Anything that can protect you from clawing or biting, or perhaps even an accidental stray bullet would start you on the road to survival.

     Your second priority is rescue. In this case, I deem rescue to mean finding other survivors and escaping to a place that is easily defended or isolated completely from the zombie invasion. Grab your weapons, and run until you can find a person to survive with. Or if you can’t run, find a place where you can wait for rescue if possible. Make yourself as visible as you can to let people know that you need help. Reflective clothing or other reflective items, lights, signals, anything that will get you noticed by people who can help to protect you is going to be essential. Your survival chances will dramatically increase if you have someone else beside you who can help fend the zombies off. It will prevent you from being surrounded or give you a moment to breathe and regain your strength and composure.

     Following rescue is water and food, which would ideally be sorted out by choosing a suitable location to weather the storm. Any place that can adequately bar entry, and possesses a stockpile of food and water is ideal. A Super Walmart, or another similar store, will be filled with non-perishables, water, and in most cases ammunition as well.

341. big bear29 on 17 Sep 2011 at 7:54 pm #

     @link
     You’re kidding right . A gun does have a limited ammo supply but it has far greater range than a bat ever will . You can fire a gun all day so long as you have enough ammo but you can only swing your weapon as long as your strength holds out . Also a metal pole or sign post weigh more than you think , so you are not going to be swinging those all day long .

     If you are a person that shuns guns in an outbreak , there is a name for you , VICTIM . You will be facing more than just zombies , you will also be facing wild and escaped animals and other survivors , some of whom will actually be carrying guns and ammo that they won’t hesitate to use on you to get your supplies . Also guns aren’t that hard to get and believe it or not they are not all pieces of crap that fall apart in your hands like something out of far cry 2 .

     I agree that fitness will be a very importent thing if you want to stay alive , but if you can’t “outrun” a traditional shuffling zombie then you are likely so out of shape that you will not survive without the comforts of society .

     Don’t expect to be rescued by anybody during an outbreak . If you want to survive you will have to relie on yourself or your group to survive . People that hope that some knight in shining armor will come along and rescue them usually die pretty quick in any catastrophe . Also making yourself noticable isn’t always a good thing , because not everybody will be coming to help you , some people will kill you to take your gear . Also the more noticable you are the easier it will be for the zombies and hungry animals to find you and eat you .

     Don’t wait until you are out of the city to find food and water , if you do you could starve or die of dehydration before you can find supplies . And for gods sake stay away from the friggin stores . Those stores that every body thinks will make such great shelters have plate glass doors and windows that can be broken pretty easy , so they won’t keep anything out if it really wants in . Also about a billion people think that those stores will be perfect hiding places so you will have a bunch of panicing people trying to cram into a store so they can raid it for supplies and possibly turn it into a safe house . Sooner or later people will start fighting and kill one another for supplies and while all this is going on the zombies will be drawn towards the store by all the activity .

342. lusfr on 17 Sep 2011 at 9:39 pm #

     How about an m-4 with a masterkey(shotgun) mounted under it. You have range, high rate of fire, and a few 12guage blasts if it gets hairy.

343. john on 21 Sep 2011 at 6:31 pm #

     In a zombie situation your best friend is the nearly 100 year old 1911, 45ACP round will stop anything with legs, and much ammo can be carried, easily reloaded, does not put much physical strain on the body, and will allow bullets to fly as fast as one can pull the trigger. for longer range : AK-47, cheap, reliable, nearly unlimited ammo worldwide, although accuracy and recoil may present a problem, the solution to that is simple (hit the gym). one last thing, to avoid being bitten, i recommend leather armor topped with chainmail, but try to avoid wearing yourself out. might be heavy to those who are less…fit.

344. Maelstrom on 23 Sep 2011 at 10:22 am #

     I’ll admit, I haven’t read thru all of the responses, but now that I’ve gone back and read some, a lot of people have said the same as I’m about to:

     my two cents (coming from someone that’s a long time real-world survivalist, who owns and uses many weapons, and yet has seen some movies and played some video games that portray a lot of these fictional “what-ifs” in the zombie and other survival genres, so I understand where some of these “but of course this will work” are coming from):

     Since the example the writer made was for in your home, long range is mute. The shotgun is your own personal space defender, with the best stopping power at close range. I own a Winchester pump, a Mossberg 930SPX (semi-auto variant of a pump action) and have fired and plan to purchase a Saiga 12 (semi-auto styled after an AK, with mag reloads). Also currently own a couple hand guns of various calibers, a couple AK semi-autos, and I’m currently looking at an AR in 5.56 (shoots both 5.56 and .223, not all AR’s do). Also interested in some less expensive hunting rifles in the most common calibers. Yes, I have a nice secured gun safe.

     I admit, I enjoy guns and I’ve shot them since I was 7 years old (.22 at the time, mind you). Guns+accesories+ammo can be expensive (sometimes $1000′s each) but most are in the $300 to $800 range. A barebones shotgun with lots of ammo comes in around $400.

     Almost any decent caliber gun is better than any melee weapon. You can injure or kill from much further away, and if you do run out of ammo, guess what, your gun is a decent melee weapon as well as a last resort of survival. Melee requires lots of strength and endurance, even if your just fighting off a couple attackers. Guns make 1 person the equivalent of an army of people with swords or bats (aka the term one man army) and a person with a gun can take down dozens of attackers with ease. In the fictional zombie scenario, that means better odds for you versus trying to take on more than 1 zombie with a baseball bat.

     BEST SHOTGUN: Saiga 12 = Eliminates just about every argument in the storywriter saying a shotgun is a poor choice in a “zombie” situation. One of the best options for home defense, legal for all to buy over the age of 21 (who don’t have a criminal record), and it’s only about $600 to $800 + expensive mags. Overall, I’m going to likely spend close to $1200 for my Saiga + mags + a couple accessories on it like a tac light and picatinny rail hand guard to mount stuff on. But just the base gun with some mags and iron sights will suffice.

     PERKS:

     1. It’s semi-auto (so you shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger), which means you can aim at what you want, fire quickly, and not empty the mag if you don’t want to.

     2. It uses magazines to feed the ammo into the gun (super fast reload)

     3. Magazine capacities can get 2, 5, 8, 10, 12 box mags or 12, 20, and now 30 round drum mags (depending on what state you live in, you might be limited to 20 round mags)

     4. Unless you weight 110 lbs, a 12ga shotgun is not going to knock you on your ass. If that is a concern, use 2 3/4″ shells, get low recoil shells if you need to (or reload your own). Within the confines of your home, the 2 3/4 is more than enough. If you are really petite, a 16ga or 20ga shotgun is still a good deal, but ammo won’t be as widely easy to find as 12ga.

     5. The ammo itself comes in many types, bird shot (not stopping anything unless it’s right at the muzzle when you shoot), various size buck shot (00 or 000 buck is like shooting around eight to ten shots of 9mm rounds in one shot, concentrated to within the size of a soft ball at less than 25 yds (which in your house will always be less than that). Personal defense rounds (combination of slug and buck shot) and straight .50 cal slugs (come rifled of smooth bore variations), not to mention all the special variants like flares, bean bags, etc.

     6. Ammo is plentiful!!! Almost every store that carries ammo has shelves of it. Abandoned police vehicles will likely have a shotgun mounted in them (likely need a handcuff key to get the actual shotgun out, but at least you should be able to extract the shells).

     7. Ease of use, it’s one of the easiest guns to learn!

     I also disagree with the M4 as the best. Sure ammo is light, and it has the conventional wisdom of hi-mag capacities. Not as easy to use as a shotgun (unless you train and work with it a lot). The + side is that it’s easy to aim and hit a target consistently, but when you have multiple targets coming at you at once, you are not going to be able to get head shots as easily as using a 30-round Saiga 12 with 000 buck (6 to 8 large pellets), which is the equivalent of shooting 180 to 240 rounds of .223 at close range. If you are in a secure building and are shooting at zombies outside, .223′s range is much better suited for that, but then you are drawing way to much attention to yourself if you are doing that (unless you own a suppressor for it, which ranges around $800 to $1200, and requires some additional paperwork, time for approval and a $200 tax stamp paid, and a threaded barrel AR to put it on).

     That said, I agree to have multiple weapons and multiple calibers available to you. 12 gauge, 9mm, .40 cal and .223/5.56 are the predominately used calibers in most police and military forces in the USA. Should you have to go out to pilage after a couple weeks, you may find these the most plentifully available calibers.

     Of course there is 7.62×39 and many other calibers for those internationally and in the US. Lots of gun enthusiasts in the US buy AK’s because they are inexpensive compared to AR’s ($300 to $800 vs $600 to $1000′s), shoot an arguably better stopping round, and AKs are hard to break and fire when even full of sand. Their downside is that the novice user will likely be less accurate as the round has more recoil than say a .223/5.56.

     .357mag, 38 special and 45acp are also used a lot. .357mag is said to be the best “human” killer for a handgun (the debate for the perfect caliber has raged since guns have been in existence). I like the .357 mag as they can shoot both .357 mag ammo and 38 special ammo. Downside is capacity, the most expensive ones still only handle 8 or 9 shots max, and 99% are wheel guns (revolvers, like old school cowboys used), so they require longer reloads than weapons that use magazines. Magnum Research’s Desert Eagle brand has a model that comes in .357 mag, and uses 9-round magazines to load, but it’s expensive ($1500). 38sp (special) is a much tamer round and easier to shoot, but is essentially the same size bullet with less powder behind it.

     Going hunting rifle, the .308 is one of the most widely available hunting ammo, which is also used in a lot of the “sniper” rifles and power punching assault rifles. Great for long to mid range, but bolt actions tend to have a small mag size (4 or 5 rounds), semi-auto hunting rifles around 5 to 10 rounds, and the assault rifles typically handle 20 to 25 rounds.

     .22 long/short is also very common, but it’s practically useless against anything bigger than a house cat.

     Having a good selection of guns is important (most times it’s quicker/easier to switch to an other gun than reload the one you have), but most importantly have a good supply of ammo for each, properly stored in a cool/dry place. Ammo (specifically the gun powder) will last for decades if properly stored. I tend to leave most of my magazines empty, to prevent the springs from warping. I recommend not buying ProMag if you can help it, as they so far have been unreliable for me. Go with the manufacturer’s mags, more expensive, but worth it for the reliability.

     Also, have a couple well made, sharp knifes (useful for construction jobs, cutting/cleaning food and self defense). Have the proper equipment and supplies to maintain all your weapons. Most will last a long time, but eventually all will get dull, break a spring or need lubrication.

345. Maelstrom on 23 Sep 2011 at 10:31 am #

     Now that I covered the gun side, and having read some more posts on other “what to dos”, I thought I’d right another novel on how I would suggest attempting to survive, whether it’s a natural disaster like an mega earthquake / super volcano, or a plague that wipes out 3/4 of the population (has happened many times in the history of our species), or a virus that converts people into rage killing machines, or the undead truly does rise and want to eat your brains:

     Yes you need to be fit enough to act quickly and work hard in a short period of time, have an escape AND a fight-defend plan, have the necessary materials and tools to quickly improve the defenses of your home (board windows, barricades, etc). Even if your 300+ lbs, if your capable and have a good “disaster” plan, you could likely survive, perhaps even better than others, because you can ration your food more (never ration water, you’ll die quick without proper water intake) and live longer off your own “natural reserves”.

     Have a minimum of two months supply of food, water, vitamins, medical supplies, Purel stored for each person and animal in your home. Ideally have it store in an upstairs closet(s). Canned foods with plenty of vegetables and meat and dry foods are ideal. Now a days most things have expiration dates. Keep the shelves stocked, and use the oldest stuff first, so you always have a good reserve should your local Walmart or grocery store become overrun with the undead.

     If you live alone, have extra in case family / friends / neighbors / strangers find you and stay with you to help you defend. Always drink a reasonable amount of water each day, don’t ration it. The amount varies from person to person, but expect at least six 20oz bottle of water per person per day just for drinking. Also be sure to keep extra “gray water” from rain for washing yourself / clothes / and flushing toilets (if society collapses, you’ll likely be without power, and therefore you have no water pumps to pump water). You don’t need to be clean, so wash infrequently (maybe once every other day) to conserve water. Rely on Purel and other types of water-free cleaners. Remember, you can hand wash clothes as needed, and let air dry.

     It’s not the best, but don’t flush when you only urinate in the toilet, to conserve water. Fill the back tank of the toilet about 3/4′s full to insure you get a proper flush the first time. You may even choose to resort to using plastic bags fitted inside the toilet and throw them outside if you really want to conserve water.

     Arguably, the upstairs should be the easiest place to have the last barricade on the stairs / at the top of the stairs (dressers, beds, bed springs, even clothes). Also have plenty of battery operated devices, plenty of batteries, and even alternative power source with plenty of stored fuel (solar or LP generator that runs off of BBQ grill propane tanks). Think about at least a radio, a couple walkie-talkies, and even CB radio and a shortwave radio for communication outside (likely cell phones and line lines will not work after a while). If you are hell-bent on zombie-specific attack, think about potential “armor” against being bitten, thick leather jacket, welder clothes, biker clothes, thick non-tear gloves, comfortable boots. If other types of attacks, a good NBC gas mask per person with plenty of filters.

     Initially, stay in/near your home and kill anything that threatens you if it gets close. Hopefully you have at least one other person to watch your back. Have one of you defend while the other boards up windows (don’t be concerned about breaking up furniture and cabinets to use as boarding materials if need be). Even the couch, la-z-boy and bed have wooden / metal frames and attached spring assemblies that could be used as boarding / fencing on windows. Use screws and power tools is good (as it’s the hardest to remove), but it takes time. If speed is the greatest concern, get a movable air tank with large extension cord and a pneumatic nail gun (they have various nails that could make them more resistant to being removed), or even a battery powered nail gun. These nail guns are quick to use, and easy to reload to board up quickly. Once the outside is secured, go inside, and if possible, use screws to board up from the inside as well. Note, on apartments and townhouses, be wary of people and other things breaking in thru “common walls” and thru the attic. Most people don’t realize it’s pretty easy to break thru drywall and even brick and concrete block with a nice sledgehammer. Those infected or the undead will likely go bare handed and/or kick, but remember this if you are trying to get supplies in a house that is barricaded against you.

     Having others with you is a double edged sword. Having multiple people can keep you alive thanks to you each contributing and watching each other’s back, but be wary of others and be on guard as much as possible. People act unpredictably in a crisis, so watch they are not trying to steal from you / kill you. Especially when supplies get low or their is not enough weapons to go around. Also keep an eye on changes in behavior, in case they have become infected and will eventually turn on you. It’s ok to kill to defend yourself and your family to survive. Pets are also a gamble. Great companionship and even a good defense / alarm system, but they require resources to live like you do, and likely will give away your position if they act up. Dogs are the best option to keep for defense/alarm. Cats, snakes, and other things are really only good as an alternative food source (I know, disgusting!, but if your hungry enough, you’ll be glad you ate Ms. Kitty).

     Roads will likely be impassible as people will try to flee and get caught in traffic. This leaves you with plenty of gas to collect. You can either use a hose / syphon, or just take a hammer and a screw driver and puncture the gas tank (it shouldn’t explode, and its a fast way to extract the gas). Have a cup/container to fit under the vehicle to collect the gas and a gas can to put the gas into. This gas is good for your own vehicle (ideally an SUV or truck that you can put plenty of people/supplies in) while you are pillaging for survival, and also good for a generator. I would limit generator use, as the noise will give away your position, and you can’t run it indoors because the exhaust will kill you. Also, gas only stores for about a year (unless you add preservatives to extend it to 2 years). Propane is better IMHO, LP gensets that run off of common 20-lb propane tanks. Still noisy, but you can likely collect a ton of tanks off of neighbors BBQ grills and local stores, and they store easily inside and the fuel lasts for many, many years, and can be applied to heating devices (space heater or food prep devices), as well as the generator.

     Consider learning common skills about construction, about water treatment and about farming / planting. After everything “modern” runs out and stored foods go bad, you will be left with gardening, farming and raising/hunting animals for food (and clothing).

     Give the event up to a month to “resolve”, drawing as little attention to your house and yourself as you can (of course having boarded up the outside of windows may draw attention, but it’s the strongest option against people breaking in (pushing against the boards). Hopefully after 1 to 2 months, depending on the situation that created the zombies, it is scientifically thought that without proper food and water, even a crazed human with a virus would die from malnutrition and especially lack of water. Obviously, the first couple of weeks they will have plenty of those things with killing other humans, eventually, that resource will run out and they will die. If you can hold out that long (or even through an entire season), you should survive and have a chance to rebuild. If they have truly died, and come back and still roam the earth after a couple months to a year of survival, I’m not sure it’s even worth surviving that.

346. Billy on 24 Sep 2011 at 1:12 pm #

     I wonder if you have ever heard of the AA shotgun, being released to the US army. It is an automatic shotgun with a fifty round drum magazine. it also has the capability to use an explosive grenade round. This would be the weapon of choice for something like a defensive or even offensive operation, hundreds of rounds in minutes as well as grenades, nothing better

347. Zac on 28 Sep 2011 at 3:06 pm #

     best weapon loadout for zombie invasion:
     Primary: XM8 (rifle)
     the XM8 has high damage (but when it comes to zombies any gun is one hit kill to the head), good accuracy, good range, lightweight. It also has a wide range of variants including:

     XM8 Compact Carbine: 9 in (229 mm) barrel, PDW configuration, folding stock or buttcap; muzzle velocity 720 m/s (2,362 ft/s)

     XM8 Carbine with XM320 grenade launcher: 12.5 in (318 mm) barrel; muzzle velocity 815 m/s (2,674 ft/s)

     Automatic Rifle / Designated Marksmen: heavy 20 in (508 mm) barrel, integrated folding bipod, 4X sight, 30/100 round magazine; muzzle velocity 916 m/s (3,005 ft/s)s[5]

     Secondary: AA-12 (shotgun)
     The AA-12 is with out a doubt the best shotgun every made, it is semi/fully automatic (up to 300RPM), good capacity (8 shell box/ 20/32 round drum), good range (up to 100m slug/200m frag-12), has diferent ammo types (slugs/ fragmentation (mid air detonating) and some sort of grenade shell idk the name)), high maintanance meaning it can be left underwater for years and still be used after.
     and if you can get your hands on a H2X-40 Turret you can make a HAMMER, remote controled dual AA12s on a rover thing.

     If you can carry one: Minigun
     up to 10 000RPM, 3 500 ammo capacity, good range and warm up time is actually <1/2 second (do not believe movies and games)

     someone said dont use firearms, use melee:
     Wrong! this is possibly the worst advice, always have a firmarm if possible, a melee weapon can not kill a swarm of more than 10 zombies at max. even a pistol would manage that.

348. Zac on 28 Sep 2011 at 3:13 pm #

     oh and also, in a lot of countries guns aren’t that hard to get, especially in a zombie outbreak. just walk into the nearest gun shop, get as many as you can carry and go. wether it be 1/2 a mile away or 50 miles away you shud always try and find one. otherwise ak-47 are as cheap as $30.

     big big question but…
     what would happen to the internet in such an event? is the internet even stored anywhere? does it need people to work or is it just endlessly beaming throughout the world?

349. jbpharis on 02 Oct 2011 at 8:32 pm #

     in response to your choice of the M-4 or variants i have but one thing to say:
     firepower
     the 5.56 NATO round is simply not enough to stop an oncoming zombie horde unless you are able to put a round between every zombie’s eyes and even still this may not completely stop brain function.

     As such i would suggest a heavier round, say somewhere in the 30cal. range perhaps, these rounds are not only heavier and do more damage but often have much more range and are more accurate in most weapon systems.

     However i do agree with the compactness, lightness and maneuverability capable with the M-4, such things that you can often not find in a rifle firing a 30cal. round, however if compactness, lightness and maneuverability are what you are mainly looking for i would seek a semi-auto version of a sub-machine gun which most often pack a much bigger punch

     This dose sacrifice accuracy but if you are in a more confined space this may be optimal, whereas if you were in an open space a longer range rifle will be optimal.

     I find a good balance in a semi-auto version of the Ak-47 which are much cheaper than the M-4 ,and are a bit more readily available. The Ak is more accurate than the M-4 in semi-automatic fire and has the stopping power that is lacking in the M-4.

     Now as an american i have a hatred for the gun but it does prove itself worthy in this instance.
     humanity’s humble servant
     jbpharis

350. Derek on 04 Oct 2011 at 1:28 pm #

     I don’t agree with either in the above article… Sure a gun is good to use to distance yourself away from the enemy zombie, however, guns need ammo and there isnt an infinite amount of ammo… Also guns attract unwanted attention… I like the crow bar… Blunt object that doubles as a means to open sealed doors and exits

351. Deadzed on 13 Oct 2011 at 9:47 pm #

     Ill take the shotgun over the M-16 any day. The m-16 is prone to failure, the shotgun is a workhorse. Yes shotguns have a limited capacity, but in a zombie situation you ideally want to fire as few rounds as you can. If you want to pick off zombies at a few 100 yards go with an M-16 or AR style rifle.

     If you want the ability to clear a room quickly using just a few shots, which is more than likely what you would encounter in an urban situation. Go for the shotgun. The shotgun is versatile because of its ammo choices, stopping power and spread.

     Ive seen first hand how picky AR-15 and M-16s can be. They need to be cleaned very often and have a dismal FTF/FTE. While shotguns go boom no matter what, due to their simple design.

     So all in all if you want to go “black ops” fine by me… Ill keep and extra slug ready for when you turn.

352. skullangel on 14 Oct 2011 at 10:08 pm #

     I partialy agree with the article above but somewhat disagree as well…

     Its hard to generalize shotguns, because there are so many types available, Tho I agree the Remingtom pump is a BAD idea there are other shotguns out there that will work as well as the M4…

     The Spas 12 for example Semi-auto but the reloading problem is there.
     The Spas 15 solves that problem along with the Saiga-12,

     Though the M4 has its good points aswell, for it to perform the best it could in a zombie apocalypse it needs a masterkey system as a last ditch weapon.

     A shotgun with, dragonsbreath, bolo rounds, rifled slugs, frag-12s make great tools for hunting zombies…

353. Shakezilla on 15 Oct 2011 at 12:49 am #

     Has anyone in this forum ever fired a gun? Shotguns do not knock man sized soft objects down, that’s just physics. Unlike Hollywood would have you believe you still have to aim. Even birdshot will penetrate a skull with a good choke at reasonable ranges. 25 shotgun shells equates to about 5lbs. Of weight. Unless you have a pussy lawyerproof autoloader all modern firearms are capable of loading a single shell from the breech to fire. Revolvers are not 100% reliable, ever heard of cylinder lockup?AK’s do jam. All guns are capable of jamming without proper maintenance and shooting bad ammo. Where the hell are you going to get a full auto weapon without being a criminal or having a class III liscense? You think you’re just going to get one off a dead soldier who’s trained to fight when the only experience you have is with some badass steady Modern Warefare gun? If what the only zombie films that matter (old Romero) have taught us is that it’s all about brain trauma. For an all around readily available gun (and ammo) I would choose a .22 rifle. They’re light, can be made reliable, cheap easily fond parts, thousands of rounds can be carried for the same weight as a few hundred shotty shells, and WILL penetrate a skull at any distance you can hit something with irons. If you need something bigger the AK or AR are easily found in today’s market along with 7.62×39 and .223. I know this because I own good versions of all the above.

354. survivor on 23 Oct 2011 at 2:06 pm #

     big bear29 i could not agree with you more and i also think that it is a bad idea to use a shotgun, unless it is the only kind of gun you own, in which case i still think that using a gun, no matter what kind of gun it is, is still better than using a melee weapon.

355. Wm on 28 Oct 2011 at 3:01 am #

     I am forced to agree with the author. You will be able to bring the heat and keep it up with a semi auto rifle. Interesting in that my go to weapon is an old 1100 that went with me overses long long ago. I know how to use it and keep it fed. None the less a CAR for example with a couple 30 Round magazine using civillian defensive ammo…. darn lethal. Not as much over penatration as one might thi

356. Timothy Linnomme on 03 Nov 2011 at 8:27 am #

     This is an interesting discussion. The AA-12 can carry a 32 round drum but that would become heavy in a flight scenario. Though a m4 is recommended, the stupid ordnance laws in the USA would prevent you from getting either if push came to shove. For a distance weapon, a .22 semi auto breech loader with sufficient extra clips would be realistic as far as procurement went. It has no real stopping power, but with a scope, head shots would be relatively easy. The ammo is light weight so one thousand rounds could be easily carried. For close in or quiet work, a modified Naginata or a sharpened piece of steel would be best. of course, the main objective of surviving such an outbreak is to get the hell out of the urban areas since they would have the most zombies by default.

357. Pro Zombie Hunter on 07 Nov 2011 at 11:08 pm #

     Consider this.

     The shotgun makes a load bang. The noise to shot ratio is horrible. Yeah you kill 1-2 zombies directly in front of you, but you’ve just alerted every zombie within a mile of your presence.

     Good luck with that.

     Best weapon for silent undead kills:

     100 lb+(string) Crossbow with a scope.

     Best weapon for a small war against zombies:

     Above mentioned assault rifle, or just about any rifle with a minimum 15 round magazine.

     Also, there are assault rifles with silencers, which will effectiveness to your mayhem.

358. clay houle on 13 Nov 2011 at 5:51 pm #

     ok 1st of all you dont have a fuckin flamerthrower unless you want to die. you have a shotgun, a 9mm (desinded for penetration) if possible a rifle. 3rd you stay inside in a attic with a months worth of cinnimon buns. whys that? zombies need to feed to… the virus will die if they cant feed like every other living thing. so instead of playing the hero stay inside… yes the rush of aderiline would probaly make you think oh shit i need to get out and get guns and sit in a store smoking cigarettes to relax.

359. boondock on 18 Nov 2011 at 7:26 pm #

     Sorry bud, but it looks like ill be taking you out with a 00 buck shot since you decided to aim with you AR-15 (a single projectile). apparently you have never shot at something that is trying to take your life. adrenaline is pumping and your barrel movement increases. sure reload time is slower but it only takes one shot per zombie. the answer is a saga 12 ga. shotgun… magazine fed, semi-auto, lightweight 16.5 in barrel, with low recoil. best of luck to you and your 30 minutes of survival.

360. christina thomas on 29 Nov 2011 at 11:24 pm #

     Grenade launcher. Missile launcher. And that energy gun from HALO. I’m all set. Oh; and maybe Optimus Prime’s Energon Blades attached to my wrists. Fuck zombies.

361. Michael on 01 Dec 2011 at 12:22 am #

     Heh, you can totally get an AR-15 at Wal-Mart now. My local Wal-Mart (Moses Lake. Store 2007) carries the Bushmaster AR-15 Carbine model with pull out stock. They also have another type of AR with the MOE handguard, looks like it’s full length or Mid-length.

362. Matt Ruiz on 03 Dec 2011 at 1:48 pm #

     Although this discussion is interesting, especially about the merits of civilian weapons, come zombie outbreak, you should be looking to those of us in the military to help out with supply/survival. My company has access to AA-12s, M-39 EMRs, M1014s, thermite grenades, etc.

     You’re also going to need people to train the unlearned in the art of using said weaponry.

363. Z_Creator on 06 Dec 2011 at 7:01 pm #

     I agree and disagree

     First, a shotgun is powerfull kill zombies (in the head) why would I aim to the chest??? Remember that most media showed us that shotguns fire like sprays

     But, it would be silly to trust just in a shotgun, anybody has considered where will you get more ammo??? Remember, fast zombies show no mercy or pity and will kill you, slow zombies are like ants; they will keep coming (unless you escape or manage to kill ‘em all) A handgun or SMG could be a good idea. Also, some bait wouldn’t be bad idea

     Yeah, the may have high recoil, slow reload time, but with practice (and a backup partner) you should be able to survive until you die, get eaten or do something stupid

364. Arctic Hunter on 31 Dec 2011 at 7:44 pm #

     I only read about the first 50 posts so if what I am about to say has been addressed then thanks for reading. I personally believe that the shot fun should only be used as a tool. It is great for bird hunting (don’t expect to have McDonald’s when zeds come), not to mention for breaching locked buildings and rooms such as warehouses and places with potential supplies. So keeping something like. Mossberg 500A tactical with a couple hundred rounds between you and a group is a good idea. It is a light shot gun with a decent capacity and is easy to maintain. The only time I would use it as a weapon is to facilitate an escape route or to buy some time.

     As for my choice of weapons, my side arm is an XDm .40 with a rod laser. The round is fairly common and is lighter than a .45 but has more punch than a 9mm. I personally hate the Berreta M9 pistol. From my experience, it is less accurate and jumps more than other pistols that I have used. As for a rifle, the AR15 is nice due to available parts, easy modification, range, mobility, and available ammo. The downfall is that it requires more TLC and the round is not as worldly available (outside of the US). The AK47 is a good rifle because of the larger round (more damage/stopping power, less expensive, less moving parts, easy cleaning, less jams in non-ideal conditions (dust, dirt, mud, moister ect.) and the round is more widely used in the world and it can be used in hunting rifles chambered for it. The draw backs are that the parts are not as common as the AR15, less accurate at longer ranges (200m+), more ammo weight. All in all I would be confident with either weapon in CQC and midrange scenarios.

     The thing about Z-day is that the lone wolf scenario would not work and hopefully you all have close friends that have built an arsenal and plan around working as a team. So having more specific roles to spread the load would increase your chances of survival.

365. Gun Show Oddities « 1 With A Bullet on 11 Jan 2012 at 11:24 am #

     [...] (BTW, Don’t use a shotgun for zombie defense) [...]

366. Cricket Forum on 25 Jan 2012 at 6:53 am #

     Cricket Forum…

     [...]Zombies Are Coming » Top 5 Reasons You Should Not Use a Shotgun for Zombie Defense[...]…

367. Brian on 06 Feb 2012 at 1:52 pm #

     Saiga automatic magazine fed 12 or 410 gauge with a bandolier. Built on an AK platform, its reliable, rugged, and user friendly. The 410 has a lighter recoil, and you can pack more ammo, so its suitable for smaller people.

368. Batd65 on 09 Feb 2012 at 3:11 pm #

     AA 12 is the End all Be all for Z-day
     #1 weapon for killing undead, next to a M1A2SEP TANK.

     http://www.undeadreport.com/2007/12/aa-12-shotgun-anti-zombie-weapon-of-choice/

     •1 – Ammo Capacity: Even the Benelli Super-90 only holds eight rounds, and as evidenced by a panicked Ving Rhames in “Dawn of the Dead”, 8 is not enough. The AA-12 holds a minimum 10 rounds in a quick loading box, or 20 or greater in a fast firing (and easy to load) drum.
     •2 – Reloading Ability: No longer is the shotgun operator stuck opening the breech or sliding in shell after shell – just drop and replace a clip or drum with the AA-12.
     •3 – Rate of Fire: No contest here. The AA-12 Automatic Shotgun produces an incredible 300 rounds per minute – thats 5 rounds per second you’re pumping into zombie heads, always on target. You can even mount it on a vehicle.
     •4 – Range and Power: You certainly don’t need to worry about range and power when your grouping and accuracy is so tight. Not to mention you can fire grenade rounds 175 yards – more later.
     •5 – Ease of Use: It may be heavy, but it’s rugged and reliable, and incredibly easy to use; even a 100 pound woman can fire the weapon one-handed. Point and shoot – it doesn’t get any easier.

369. jackie the cool on 12 Mar 2012 at 11:23 am #

     368 idiots think that zombies are coming, wrong. only unicorns and faries are :) the faries hand out lolipops and the unicorns S*IT rainbows:)

370. Grayson on 19 Mar 2012 at 6:16 pm #

     The beast thing would actually be a shot gun because you cant get m4 bullets but you can get shot gut shells at walmart

371. jack on 31 Mar 2012 at 11:09 pm #

     the m-4 is the most reliable, effective weapon of all time. it’s light weight construction enables the user of any age to fire w/ any type of scope as long as the m-4 has a handle. so i would prefer a m-04 over an gun/ except a 50. cal or mini gun!

372. jack on 31 Mar 2012 at 11:13 pm #

     the m-4 is the most reliable, effective weapon of all time. it’s light weight construction enables the user of any age to fire w/ any type of scope as long as the m-4 has a handle. so i would prefer a m-04 over an gun/ except a 50. cal or mini gun! i would also like to have the most dependable long lasting truck on the road- CHEVROLET SILVERADO/GMC SIERRA!!!!!!

373. Eliazar Chandra on 05 Apr 2012 at 3:31 am #

     I reckon the most suitable weapons against a zombie would be an anti-tank sniper rifle for a long distance Uzi for mid distance and a Samurai sword for close range combat and since that we would be talking about Zombie era then cost isn’t matter any more

     Ammos
     Long distance anti tank rifle – 20 crates sufficient
     mid range Uzi – 1212 boxes
     2 samurai swords/ known for a degree of hardness and razor- sharpness impossible to attain in European swords without danger of brittleness and breakage.

374. ikillzombies on 17 Apr 2012 at 6:40 pm #

     have you ever heard of a thing called the spas 12? or the AA 12? THE spas 12 is semi auto and the aa 12 is full auto. so if you had the aa 12 you could blast the heck out of those zombies much better then an m4.

375. skooter on 21 Apr 2012 at 4:14 pm #

     I agree, the shot gun is overused in movies but that said there are meny situations that a shot gun would be needed like the sawed off double barrel in resident evil: afterlife if your surrounded by 5 or 6 just bust out the ol’ sawed off and empty it ..lol it might not kill them but it will knock em down so you can make a break for it so in that aspect anyone who is going to take this seriously had better be picking up a small arsenal now while wal*mart’s employees are still friendly and aren’t trying to bite you. If you want my opinion on some calibres I’d say (2- .22mag pistols , 2- 12ga. Double barrels , a JR. .22mag lever action (cus its short & light) and probably a short ninja sward ..just incase …lol. every one is different so if you don’t have any experience with the weapon then yer screwed anyhow, my son is 7 and I’m teaching him how to aim with a “little crikket .22 short” and I take him squirl hunting all the time because its not just about teaching him how to shoot & aim you also have to get them passed to killing barrier. I know grown adults that have never killed anything and I don’t think they could live thru a zombie apocalypse. I’m just saying its a good point of view and a good fact article but its all personal experience, know how, will to live ..

     Good article its got me rambling..lol
     Skooter

376. ChoppinZombies on 23 Apr 2012 at 8:56 pm #

     You have obviously not seen the Saiga 12 shotgun. They can be made fully auto and have up to 74 shot drums. It is a zombie kkilling machine.

377. Manofmanyhats on 25 Apr 2012 at 9:03 pm #

     I have actually read all 368 comment prior to mine, which if a lot of people had, there wouldn’t be near that many. The only people who seem to know what they are talking about are the people I would want to be with when SHTF. What people generally seem to fail to realize is that most weapons are purpose built. Fully automatic weapons, as great as they are(I’ve had one for 5 years in the army) is first and foremost mean as a suppressive weapon, secondly as your individual weapon. Just the sound of a M249 unloading is enough to make most reasonable people seam cover, even if not in eminent danger. This tactic however works the opposite with zack. The more noise is generally worse and attracts them like. Moths to a light. All that in mind the shotgun is a purp

378. Manofmanyhats on 25 Apr 2012 at 9:45 pm #

     I have actually read all 368 comment prior to mine, which if a lot of people had, there wouldn’t be near that many. The only people who seem to know what they are talking about are the people I would want to be with when SHTF. What people generally seem to fail to realize is that most weapons are purpose built. Fully automatic weapons, as great as they are(I’ve had one for 5 years in the army) is first and foremost mean as a suppressive weapon, secondly as your individual weapon. Just the sound of a M249 unloading is enough to make most reasonable people seek cover, even if not in eminent danger. This tactic however works the opposite with zack. The more noise is generally worse and attracts them like moths to a light. All that in mind the shotgun is a purpose built weapon as well. But with its ever adaptable ability different ammo has been produced for all kinds of situations. The shot gun is a must have tool in my book. It has the capability to be used for CQC, hunting, breaching, and much more. I am surprised that not once has the Kel Tec KSG been mentioned. I think everyone is just to hung up on magazine fed and full auto shot guns. As I have experienced many times in the army, not only are weapons prone to malfunction, but magazines do as well. The KSG is a 14+1 shotgun. It has 2 selectable tube magazines and you can have one in the chamber. It is a bull pup design weighing in at a 6.9lbs and is 26.1″ long the colt M4 weighs 6.1lbs and is 29.8″ long. Unlike the AA-12 or any other full auto weapon the KSG is completely legal to own and is available right now. There’s not one in every gun shop where as production is limited right now, but as soon as I can get my hands on one I’m going to. And I already have an AK-47 and a glock 17 with extended mags. So I’ve got my bases covered. Anyone interested in a good shotty should google the KSG and watch a few videos on you tube, you’ll probably fall in love like I did. I’ve been waiting over a year for it to become publicly available.

     The best weapon choice for Z-day is to have a few different types. Never rely on just one weapon. A primary weapon, whatever your choice, and a handgun at a minimum. One should never have to worry about the much talked about I’m cornered scenario. Always have an exit plan, if you find yourself trapped in a corner fighting a number of zeds, well you let a mindless zombie outsmart you and you probably deserve to join their ranks so I can kill you later. The more you kill, the less you have to worry about in the long run of things. Enduring the crisis is the key, not trying to avoid it. Anyone just stashed away in hiding not helping to end the problem, in fact, helpin the problem. I personally would rather die in honor than die in shame. Happy hunting everyone, see you on the other side!

     Totally unrelated but having shot a M249 for 5 years, in response to an earlier post. I will say just this, the guy who said the SAW is select fire, he was right. You may select either safe, or fire(full auto) there is no semi auto selection on a SAW other than when you let go of the trigger. I will say is is possible to shoot one or even two rounds at a time, but it takes a lot of practice and disaplined. It does accept the M16/AR15 magazine, but that is always a bad choice unless you have no choice. The problem is not in the weapon, but the magazines ability to feed. The rate of fire is to fast and the spring in a may is to weak to support long automatic fire. But will work just fine in short bursts.

379. Ken P on 11 May 2012 at 12:57 am #

     You all are amazing. We need to establish a meeting point for everyone here so that when the Zombie Apocolypse happens this group is together to rain down hell fire on those undead bastards.

380. toast on 17 May 2012 at 11:48 am #

     so i OWN guns and know what happens when u shoot them. a .22 is THE BEST ROUND for killing zombies because it has a high enough velocity to go 100 yards flat and take a zombies head out accurately and with no recoil. You can carry 10,000 .22s in the space (not taking account for the weight) u could hold 100 shot shells. another thing .22′s are the most common ammunition and if u use a kel tec plr-22 with a 50 round drum mag you can take on hoards all on your own. its a mini no-stocked m16 pistol that fires .22 lr and u can make it a little zombie killer. Thats what i named mine. a plr-22 is under $300, add vertical foregrip($30), suppressor($350), mini red dot($80), ammo(3 cents per shot), and with all this its still cheaper AND lighter than an AR15.

381. Jeff on 17 May 2012 at 5:50 pm #

     MP5, SPAS-12, Mauser C96, machete, and a gmc canyon is what i have and will use.

382. AliLaw on 18 May 2012 at 4:32 am #

     Well thought carefully about protection in Zombie land. I came to the conclusion (AKA walking dead) that guns are last resort and stealth is key so assult rifs just not pracitcal. You also have to look at sustainability (ammo running out etc). What about grenades (learn to make home made ones also) when surrounded, crossbow for medium range stragglers and at close quarters shield and sword etc and backed up with carbon fibre chainmail base layer clothing (bite resistant).

383. Vinny on 22 May 2012 at 3:47 pm #

     I still say a shotgun is best. Who says you have to take out the brain? Birdshot to their eyes will blind them and severly limit what they can do. Similarly taking out their ears and nose will deprive them of their senses. Shoot off a foot or two. Shoot them in the hip to shatter it and they cannot walk. Give me a shotgun any day of the week. Even in Nam I prefered the M79 loaded with shotshell rounds to my M-16 for close up work.

384. Bigzoop on 30 May 2012 at 2:15 pm #

     @lbreevisii your a fuckin idiot

385. Eric on 01 Jun 2012 at 7:56 am #

     If your going with a shotgun, the AA-12 will do well
     magazine get with 8, 20 or 32 round magazines. Also fully automatic and will rip hoards of zombies apart.
     Keep some kind of assault rifle with you anyway cause its not smart to wait for the zombies to get in range of your shotgun.

     My zombie survival kit
     M4A1 – SOPMOD if possible
     AA-12 with 32 round mag
     Some kind of melee weapon

386. Sebastian on 21 Jun 2012 at 10:49 pm #

     As a Newbie to the gun world, I love this discussion. A Keltec KSG has great ammo for a pump shotgun, bull-pup design while staying legal, and it can fire shorter shells down to 1 3/4 inch shells alowing 24 shells to be loaded.

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