Handgun Choices for Close Range Zombie Defense

In movies and games that populate the lives of many we see the hero standing up as the undead close in around him. First he empties his long gun, if he even has one, and as the enemy closes in all around he draws his pistol. Depending on the movie or game it is often a revolver, large and powerful the symbol of American gun perfection, the soul of the old west. He brings up his gun and fires till they are all dead. In real life he pulls the trigger six times, maybe hitting half that number of zombies and maybe killing one, and as he tried desperately to reload dropping the cartridges because his hands shake with fear and adrenaline he is over whelmed and consumed. Did he have the right weapon for close range zombie defense?
The above is designed not to deter one from carrying a handgun during a zombie outbreak, rather it is designed to deter a person from thinking that a handgun is the solve all that many movies portray it to be. Of all modern firearms the handgun is by far the hardest to master. It takes years and thousands if not hundreds of thousands of rounds for one to master the use of a handgun, be it revolver, autoloader, or otherwise.
Single Action Revolver: One of the oldest and most widely recognized handguns is the single action revolver of old western fame. Rugged and dependable it is nearly the worst handgun that could be chosen. The gun is slow to fire and even with a great deal of training reloading is slow and tedious. Even barring the single action army model Colt and looking at something like the Smith and Wesson Model three with its break open top reloading the weapon under enormous stress is difficult.- Double Action Revolver: This is again not the choice weapon when handguns are concerned since reloading the weapon is still time consuming. Some may argue that speed loaders have ended this debate and also that there are now revolvers that will hold eight round, the same as a standard 1911 with a seven round magazine and one in the chamber, that the double action revolver may still hold its own. However, unless you are a champion pistol shooter and have used one in combat or are a former police officer who carried one on the streets and have been shot at I would not recommend such a handgun as your backup weapon.
- Semi-Automatic: This is for the most part the choice weapon when you have the ability to carry a backup weapon to your main gun. The weapon is easy to reload, inserting the magazine into the gun and releasing the slide, magazine capacity is greater than that of a revolver, and in general, there are exceptions, they are highly reliable. This is the preferred type of backup handgun when dealing with zombies, the only down fall of it is the chance that in a panic a shooter could empty the entire magazine of the gun in a few seconds hitting little more than air.
Other factors to consider when selecting your close-range zombie defense firearm:
- Weapon size: Carrying a massive handgun may only slow you down and the idea is to have a weapon that can be brought into play quickly. Accuracy is also a concern here in that a gun too small or too big for the operator can hamper the likely hood of hit on target. Another consideration is that this weapon will not be used to fire at targets from a great distance. Though many handguns and engage targets accurately out to fifty yards twenty five is more realistic and less than ten yard is the best bet for being able to consistently kill the undead. Another factor that must also be taken into account is that stress and the pucker factor must be added and accuracy will diminish more the closer they get.
- Caliber: Another consideration when choosing a handgun is caliber. Though many will look for the most powerful round that they can this is not the best idea. You do not need to blow the zombies head clean off, you only need to destroy the brain. Another consideration is that a non standardized caliber will be hard to find, running out of ammo you may find yourself with nothing more than a fancy boat anchor. A prime example of this is the S&W model 500. It is the world most powerful production handgun and may be good you hunt zombified bear but will do nothing to save you against a horde of the undead. Calibers that should be looked at are the trusted .45ACP, the 9mm luger/parabellum, the .40S&W, and finally the humble .22LR. Stay tuned as we plan to offer an additional article which covers caliber more in depth.
The official ZAC close range handgun choice is the Glock. For various reasons, ZAC endorses the Glock as the firearm of choice when you find yourself in need of close range fire-power. The Glock is a reliable handgun and is easily purchased. It is not a speciality item and is easily recognizable to any and all. There are numerous accessories available and also numerous models of the gun as well.
Lastly you should remember that you need to keep and train the most important weapon of all, your brain. The ability to think and reason is what will allow us to prevail over the enemy. The weapons that are best suited may not be at hand and thus you may need to go with a less ideal weapon. As long you can survive use that weapon to its greatest potential and adapt. Also training before the coming of the zombies is essential to survival. A professional with a poor weapon has a better chance of survival than an amateur with the latest and greatest arms on the planet.
Comments (118)







Martha Rose on 15 Dec 2007 at 6:27 pm #
Once again, I must say that a gun of any kind is not desirable, particularly in close-range situations. Whilst shooting the undead may be an option from a distance on a well defended, inaccessible rooftop, close up it will be essentially useless.
The most obvious problem is ammo: once you run out, the gun is useless (as a projectile, it is unlikely to even slow a lone zed). Not to mention maintenance and re-loading.
In addition: the majority of the world’s population is not American. As a Brit, I know that I would not find a Glock “easily purchased” (and quite right too, in my opinion).
No, to my mind the best weapons are those that are easily found, easily handled (with some practice desirable) and truly affordable. Ideally, you want to stash several of these things in useful locations.
The most obvious examples include: Fireman’s axes, spades, long swords, etc. In a pinch, a large kitchen knife would probably serve better than a handgun. A long, solid blade securely attached to a pole to create a long spear would be very useful indeed – allowing for more distance between you and the undead.
Of course, the most obvious solution is to avoid close range contact with the undead at all costs. Surviving a zombie horde at close range is nigh on impossible, regardless of your weapon of choice. As glamorous as the movies may make zombie hunting seem, it must be stressed that you should NEVER actively seek out zed contact. The risk of being cornered is great enough as it is.
ZAC Admin on 15 Dec 2007 at 6:58 pm #
“once you run out, the gun is useless”
That is not a reason not to have one in the first place. Even at closer ranges, a firearm will allow you more distance than a sword or impact weapon.
The American point is well played and something that I personally did not consider. Saving the debate for and against firearms for another website, it is important to consider all regions when preparing for a zombie attack. So for that, I thank you for kindly bringing that to the light.
Some type of impact weapon might do the trick as well. Hopefully those previously unlightened will take heed to our warnings and begin to stockpile objects that could be used to thwart the undead.
“Of course, the most obvious solution is to avoid close range contact with the undead at all costs. Surviving a zombie horde at close range is nigh on impossible, regardless of your weapon of choice.”
Very well put. A close range defense is one that is handled against the odds of survival. However, if you find yourself in a position where a close range defense is needed in order to get into a better situation, then I personally would prefer a firearm.
Platinum on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:33 pm #
The Judge would be a poor choice, especially in .410. Additionally, it’s a revolver with only 5 rounds available. If the other option for it is .45 long (or .45 acp), just go with the 1911; more than enough power to scramble the brain of zombie, and the ability to carry 10+, with easy access (in USA) to ammo.
I have fought mock-combat (full speed) with wooden swords and, personally, would not want to face more than a few slow zombies with a sharp, combat-ready blade. After only a few instance of bone-contact, you’re left with a shiny bat. A cricket bat, or aluminum baseball bat would be better. Not as good as a .45, but would beat a sword in the long run.
Avoidance would still be better. Death to zombies at range comes in a very close second. High powered rifle with a scope solves that problem.
splint.chesthair on 16 Dec 2007 at 7:07 am #
I think it would be useful to carry a handgun in the sense that the one time you need it, it will probably save your life. You figure that at least once, a zed is going to take you by surprise when your guard is down. Even the best of us can’t keep on 24/7 heightened alert. So when you’re on your back on the ground fighting off a single zed with one arm, it will be useful to be able to reach for your handgun. That would be the most effective weapon in such a situation and although it may never happen, if it did, you’d be thanking your foresight for carrying your handgun.
Martha Rose on 16 Dec 2007 at 2:04 pm #
Good point about the swords, Platinum. A strong bat may well be more efficient.
A handgun is probably better than nothing, and if you do manage to find a one (that isn’t going to add too much excess weight) there’s no reason not to carry it. But I do fear over-reliance on guns, as I don’t think they’d serve well (or last long) as primary weapons.
Using your brain is important, I really liked that point. Unless it’s a very, very small outbreak, you’re not going to be able to kill all of them yourself. Putting space and barriers between you and them is essential – multi-functional weapons are a blessing here: sturdy knifes, spades, etc.
As a sometime fencer, I love the idea of using a foil to fend off zeds – just a poke through the eye would be all you’d need to destroy the brain. Obviously, I’m aware of all of the practical problems involved with this weapon – even a handgun would probably serve better. :p
Mick on 17 Dec 2007 at 12:35 am #
I would go with the 22LR. Its got a little to no recoil so you can keep your sights while shooting. Also you can carry a metric crapton of ammo. Seriosly and Altoid tin can hold about 80+ rounds. I would go with a Ruger markIII or a Walther p22. The Walther is SUPER easy to care for.
Ivory Legend on 17 Dec 2007 at 1:22 am #
while a bat seems ideal after a sword has run out, think about this, a bat is created with
the idea of hitting a baseball sized target. an important factor is speed. against zombies,
speed can be a life-saver. however, to create speed, the baseball bat generally is hollow.
i have seen a fair share of bats breaking after hitting a fast ball. how many whacks would
it take to get to the center of the tootsie pop (or zombie brain in this case)? too many.
in the long run a blade, while not quite as sturdy as a bat or bludgeoning object, would
take out a zed quicker than a bat and if you are in close combat, the last thing you want
is a prolounged encounter. ya, i know that a blade needs sharpened and could break,
everything does without proper maintence anyways. (im not familiar with cricket bats
even though i think they are solid wood). a good machete can be bought at a home and
garden store or at an outdoor backpacking store. so, thats what i think anyways. im
open to suggestions though. (ps, as a side note, golf clubs are hollow as well. this =
BAD CHOICE. just incase anyone was wondering).
splint.chesthair on 17 Dec 2007 at 11:11 am #
A good close quarters weapon may be a good sturdy section of pipe with a taped up handle for a good grip and a pretty good pointy end. Long enough to swing like a bat, heavy enough to require only one good strike, strong enough not to bend or break and sharp enough to poke a zed through the eyeball or under the chin.
Swords are nice but only a short sword is good in close encounters and it’s tough to grab a sword with tow hands and use it to block.
So at a minimum I’d like a rifle for hunting mostly and a shotgun, “battle bar”, sidearm, hunting knife and axe for defense. All of which I already have so bully.
DAVe on 17 Dec 2007 at 10:38 pm #
But which Glock?
maratuzero on 18 Dec 2007 at 12:17 am #
Those of you who are saying a sword would be a bad back-up weapon are forgetting one thing. like guns there are many different types of swords. A claymore for instance would be a terrible sword for close range combat with the undead, while you could cut one in half with a freshly sharpened blade, it would be slow and awkward to use. the best chooses as far as swords are either a katana or a wakisashi (the medium sized sword you would get with a set of three samurai swords) that was professionally hand forged. either of these 2 swords are reliable and fairly easy to get. the blade on these swords are so sharp and strong that they can literally cut a bullet fired at the edge in half (this was tested and show in slow motion on spike tv’s manswers). you wouldn’t have any trouble cutting through bone. of course you need even more training to use a sword with out being a danger to your self and those around you than you do for a gun.
splint.chesthair on 18 Dec 2007 at 10:49 am #
I think that’s why I have no desire for a sword, it’s a specialized weapon. You can only use it for slicing a zombie up and/or spearing them in the head. Plus, it’s not something I’m used to using. I’d rather have some weapon that can be used in multiple ways, like an axe, a piece of 1-inch rebar with a sharp end, baseball bat, etc. Then I’ll keep a big knife for cutting (possibly protection) and or a gun for mainly hunting.
I don’t want to be walking around out in the open with a freaking sword.
maratuzero on 18 Dec 2007 at 2:14 pm #
I wasn’t saying to choose a sword over a gun as a backup weapon. personally I think that would be stupid. Im saying to have a good sword as a backup for your backup. For those of you who don’t like the idea of carrying a long sword(there are plenty of good reasons not to, as i said before you can easily hurt yourself and others if you don’t know what your doing, and they can get in the way sometimes),thats the reason I recommended the wakisashi. They are short enough to be easily carried without getting in the way, you can use it as a cutting tool in many situations, and as a defensive weapon its longer that a knife(that gives you more room between you and the attacking undead, Id prefer as much as I could get)
teh gunslinger[DK] on 19 Dec 2007 at 6:56 am #
Hmm… as far as swords go I would prolly go with a roman gladius. Designed for up close and dirty fighting seem like a good thing. Alas, it’s designed primarily to stab, which will make a bit harder to lob the heads of zombies. And it goes well with shield, which seem like a good addition.
And even if they get me, the sheer coolnes of going down armed with roman arms is worth it.
But anyways, I would prolly prefer a mace. It really gives you stopping power and the ability to bash in some skulls. And again, it allows for a shield.
Jordan on 19 Dec 2007 at 7:59 am #
Did you notice we seem to always fall way off topic?
The revolver, good gun, good idea, bad side arm. Yes they are recomended to novice shooters for home defense or personal protection, but thoes are a bit different from combating the living dead offensivly or deffensivly. Its simple action and little need for maitenance makes it easy to tosss into a drawer and grab it when you hear a bump in the night its cylinder doesnt get stressed out when you keep it loaded and jams are rare. An automatic on the other hand relies on springs and the magazine springs in particular become weakened if its kept loaded for long periods of time, this will jame in no time. Even with good springs and a clean action they can still jam from bad loads, revolvers would not.
ZAC the glock is definatly an A in my book, but care should be taken to know everything about any gun you carry. Even with the automatics few downfalls its still the better choice for a sidearm, not a main weapon.
Edged weapons sound like a good idea to me, stictly as back up of course. I have one question on the swords, where do you get one?
Dont tell me flea markets or gunshops etc. all of thoes are not battle ready. I have a small collection of swords and knives but all the swords just wouldnt hold up to more than a couple of swings at a water melon. My cane cutter is abot 2 1/2′ long made of stainless steel, and has a flat edge back to it. Ive cut through 3″ thick branches with little effort but that was just once in a while.
Using an edged weapon for zombies, doesnt that seem difficult to you guys? Im no middevil exacutioner but i dont think ts that easy to decapitate a human head.
You talk about movies over exagerating the effectiveness of the firearm, but then glorify the poer of a sword?Why? Do you own stock or somthing?
Im definatly not saying dont carry a machette but dont take to much faith in it, keep it so sharp you might cut yourself looking at it, but use your mind and stay out of trouble.
splint.chesthair on 19 Dec 2007 at 1:03 pm #
yeah, the topic really was handguns for close range combat/defense. the more I think about it the more I think I wouldn’t choose a handgun at all. I’ll take a pistol grip coach gun (sawed-off shotgun). Nothing beats the coach gun for close range combat. A headshot is immediately effective while a blast to the body will provide stopping power if one is running at you, allowing for a follow up shot to the head.
You can get a clips for them and the ammo is common. Grab some slugs and you could even use it for hunting larger game.
If I could only take one gun it would be this.
maratuzero on 19 Dec 2007 at 1:11 pm #
The reason Im so big on these 2 japanese swords is because they are the perfect sword(the real hand forged ones, not the factory made replicas). All samurai style swords are made using a technique of folding iron and steel together that make them extremely sharp, yet strong enough to withstand repeated use without breaking and very little dulling of the blade. some of these swords that are made by masters taking months to years to forge. A katana hits with the same force as a guillotine, and a wakisashi(while not as powerful) is a shorter version. As for buying them look online. the only problem is price, your looking at anywhere from $300- a couple thousand depending on who made it. One good place to start is budk.com, every now and then they get a few real swords(hand forged and battle ready)in, but usually only have cheap copies in stock.
Platinum on 19 Dec 2007 at 2:39 pm #
I’ve used both the katana and the wakizashi (as well as the tanto, or ninja style sword) and would recommend none of them. Don’t get me wrong, if I were to carry a sword, the samurai set would be my first choice. But most swords are slashing weapons and reaching arms tend to get in the way of a good, level, decapitating swing. Additionally, more than just a little bit of training is required to pull off such a move against ONE opponent, much less a small mob of brain-hungry shufflers. Bone dulls swords quickly, making any sword impractical. A foil or epee may pierce the eye and puncture the brain (a good aim is required), but won’t destroy brain.
A mace and shield would be a pretty good choice. Blunt damage works on legs (disables them for a killing blow) and the noggin (squash)
Spazmoose on 19 Dec 2007 at 2:41 pm #
In all reality, I would probably want a combination of weapons for short range combat.
I would start with a semi-automatic pistol of a large enough caliber to destroy the brain (which depends on the definition of destroy really…do we need to just damage it to the point where a normal brain would cease to function – a 22 would work here, or do we need to obliterate the brain – better off with a 45 here).
As a backup, I would want two different weapons, which would focus on being both easily accessible and easy to use.
The first of these weapons would be the machete, as they are relatively easy to come by (most home improvement or sporting goods stores carry them) and they could be used for slicing.
The second backup would be a a 2 ft. crowbar (also relatively easy to obtain) which could be used as a bashing weapon or a piercing weapon (depending on the end). This weapon has the added benefit, that if you are able to knock a zed down to its knees, you would be able to catch it in the fleshy area on the back of the head with the hooked end.
As another added bonus, both of these weapons are realitively light weight, and could be wielded at the same time if necessary.
maratuzero on 19 Dec 2007 at 3:47 pm #
I will conceed that a mace would be a better weapon for those with no training. I probly just have such a strong stance for swords cause I do have the training to use them effectively. If you want to dedicate training time to a weapon, go with one of the samurai swords. If not a mace or a good hammer would be best. as far as blunt weapon a good hammer/axe would be my choice. you cant go wrong with something that has a blade on one side and a blunt head on the other.
Some guy on 20 Dec 2007 at 12:00 am #
the ONLY use for a pistol is if your pinned down or grabbed by a zombie you wipe it out put it up to its head and pull the trigger PERIOD. the pistol dose not have the ammo capesity to be used as primary.(so keep it a a secondary
so if you plan to clear a close range room use an smg and for gods sakes uzi’s don’t help ther unaccuret and made for the same use as the MG42 in ww2 pack a target with lead
Platinum on 20 Dec 2007 at 10:10 am #
Some Guy: PERIOD? Use a pistol a little more often. Deadly accurate in excess of 30 feet. Beats having them slobber on you. I have 3 eight round clips for my 1911, plus one in the pipe is 25 shots. Reload time, less than 2 seconds. Most rifles don’t carry much more (not counting assault style rifles, I’m talking about easy access weaponry).
Clear a room of shufflers with a SMG? Go fire one of those and compare the accuracy with a pistol. Remember, we’re going for headshots, not body shots.
jakal on 20 Dec 2007 at 2:38 pm #
Ladies and gentlemen it all boils down to realistic training for each as an individual. I’m comfortable with a hand gun I have spent many years on the range both in the military and in law enforcement sharping the skills I would need for combat. Preparing the mind then the body is a must. think through the multiple scenarios you would face and then worst case it. If the mind has already prepared for it the body tends to work faster when the threat is recognized. I know it sounds strange but trust me it has gotten me out of a tight spot or two.
For those who would be uncomfortable or who don’t readily have access to fire arms train with what you do have. Never fore go the the opportunity to use whats at hand. train, train harder, train often, regardless of the weapon of choice. I do agree that having multiple close quarter weapons at hand is a must never fully rely on your weapon of choice. have a back up and a back up plan. Stay safe.
jakal on 20 Dec 2007 at 2:39 pm #
Ladies and gentlemen it all boils down to realistic training for each as an individual. I’m comfortable with a hand gun I have spent many years on the range both in the military and in law enforcement sharping the skills I would need for combat. Preparing the mind then the body is a must. think through the multiple scenarios you would face and then worst case it. If the mind has already prepared for it the body tends to work faster when the threat is recognized. I know it sounds strange but trust me it has gotten me out of a tight spot or two.
For those who would be uncomfortable or who don’t readily have access to fire arms train with what you do have. Never fore go the the opportunity to use whats at hand. train, train harder, train often, regardless of the weapon of choice. I do agree that having multiple close quarter weapons at hand is a must never fully rely on your weapon of choice have a back up and a back up plan. Stay safe.
Some guy on 20 Dec 2007 at 6:11 pm #
well platinum you have agood point but the period is if you gave a pistole to some guy that dosent know or hasent used one befor and expect them to relaod in lightnign speeds and also htia zombie head(don’t for get the head is moving around) from 5 meters away well to tell the truth if you did thatand told them to hit a zombie 10 meters away all your doing is giveing someone a peice of metal that makes sound
but if you have trained with one can hit a small target from at least 5 meters away without a shaky wrist GREAT you would be the best guy to do it but if not best chance is that you could give them a simpla mp5 mp7(if you can get one) or some other submachine gun or semi-atuo rifle tell them how to reaload and use the stock or train them how to use a pistol (correctly of course) one and on and on
FallenKnight on 23 Dec 2007 at 8:24 am #
What no one here seems to consider is the time factor. I taught my wife to be a capable shot with a pistol in about 30 minutes, and she had never fired a gun in her life, and could do the same for almost anyone else. I have no earthly idea how long it would take to develop the same amount of skill with a sword. As for lopping off zombie heads, it’s just not that easy. You’d be better off trying to chop off their hands to buy yourself some time, because if they can’t grab you, you have a much better chance of getting away.
A pistol is a close range weapon, 5-50 yards, and the Glock would be at or near the top of my list for pistols. My G22 with 4 spare mags gives me 76 rounds, and if I need more than that, I seriously effed up getting myself into that situation in the first place.
Something else to consider is ammo consolidation. If you carry a 9mm pistol, consider a 9mm carbine of some sort. A rifle/pistol combo in .22 of .22 mag would be an excellent choice simply because you could carry so much more ammo. And yes, a lowly .22lr will penetrate a human skull out to 50 yards from a decent pistol, depending on ammo, and recoil is negligible.
Any pistol that you feel comfortable and confident with is the best choice for you. Anyone who thinks a DA revolver is too slow to reload needs to look into some full moon clips and watch Jerry Miculek shoot 16 rounds (with a reload) from a revolver faster than I can shoot 8 from my 1911. Granted, the pistol was built to his personal specs, but an 8-shot revolver is still pretty badass.
FallenKnight on 23 Dec 2007 at 8:33 am #
Something I forgot to mention: it might be a good idea to have a large caliber revolver handy as a deterrent in a post-outbreak world, because zombies aren’t going to be your only problem.
There will always be those who are too lazy to work to get what they want or need and think it would be easier to just take what you have. Believe me, a person’s perspective on life will change a great deal when they can look down the barrel of your gun and SEE the bullet that will turn their head into a crimson mist.
FORGER on 23 Dec 2007 at 5:52 pm #
OK, as a general rule, I detest the Combat Tupperware Glock. It is entirely too easy to fire under everyday circumstances with it’s “Safe Action” trigger safety. If you put your booger hook on the bang switch anywhere close to properly, you can fire it.
That being said, as a SHTF sidearm, it would be hard to beat. About the only thing that can make it jam is to pour it full of concrete, and I doubt acid could corrode it. And odds are that whatever is on the business end prolly needs to be shot.
The best sidearm to have on Z-Day is the one you can employ effectively. If you have a .88 Magnum that will shoot thru schools, but the report and recoil make you soil your armour, you basically have a really loud club.
But if you have a Ruger MKII .22LR pistol that you can use to put a round thru a flea’s ass at 50 meters, you’re much more valuable to have around when the All You Can Eat Brain Buffet opens.
ZackAttack101 on 25 Dec 2007 at 10:26 am #
In the case of a “Zack Attack”, a wide range of weapons suites the survivor/zombie hunter far better than picking and choosing. So the arguement should not be weither or not to have handguns, but rather what handguns would be the best back up for your melee weapon, or visa versa.
As an american, I would agree that the german made glock is easily purchased, both legally and illegally (I’m quite sure many of you know what I mean). However, for our european cousins, they need not worry for when the “Zack Attack” reaches a certain level, they will not need to worry about purchasing said weapons, they can just as easily be looted.
So my arguement is, as long as you have the weapon and the ammo needed for it to fire, it is a good weapon.
As for a choice melee weapon, I would have to go with the good ol’ axe, because unlike the sword which slices through flesh before hitting bone, the axe crushes the bone as it splits the flesh, and should the axe head ever fall/break off, the handle can be used as an effective club. But as any suvivalist will tell you, the best tool is one you have at hand.
Sboomarang on 26 Dec 2007 at 2:46 pm #
aluminum baseball bat for the win.
ZAC Admin on 28 Dec 2007 at 11:16 pm #
“I like my chances with a good baton.”
I had actually not even considered a baton.
While I cannot argue with a good baton, they are certainly not the most widely available item for people to consider. A baton is light (compared to an axe) and can be carried in a pocket or backpack (not factoring in the duty-belt carriers sold). There are also lightweight models available. I have used one of the lightweight models and had to send it back to ASP for a bent shaft.
To my knowledge, batons are not readily available to the general public. The purpose of this post was to try and locate a few items that one could put their hands on without too many hurdles.
The baton is a good idea, however, for me personally, I would like something with a little more reach to it. The extension offered via an axe will afford me a little more distance than the baton, and I love anything that keeps me a little further away.
Fearsclave on 29 Dec 2007 at 2:58 pm #
I’d second the motion for a Glock, backed up with a good hammer polled tomahawk. Why a ‘hawk?
1) It’s light and handy.
2) It’s an axe: 12-18″ of handle adds a lot of leverage, its 1.5-2 lbs adds a lot of kinetic energy, and when you concentrate that onto a reasonably sharp cutting edge you get good penetration; much better than a machete.
3) With a hammer poll, you can bash as well as hack, and the ‘hawk becomes a useful tool as well as a lethal melee weapon. Spike polled “war hawks” can have excellent penetration when reversed, but you lose some versatility and the risk of user injury increases.
4) With a bit of practice, a ‘hawk can be thrown with surprising accuracy. This is not a good idea from a tactical perspective, but impromptu throwing competitions are great for maintaining morale.
Tonikaku on 02 Jan 2008 at 9:32 am #
Ok, to stay on topic here will be hard.
Glock 19. 9mm being one of the worlds most common calibers your chances of scoring ammo is good IF you need to bug out, but I would just recommend having a good supply already on hand. This is a side arm, a second choice, a oh crap I let my guard down and you got to close to me and I didn’t bring my rifle with me while I went to use the bathroom kind of weapon.
With the Glock 19, you can have several choices on magazine capacity, 15, 17 or 32 round factory mags from Glock. On top of that you can always get a conversion kit which will change your Glock from 9mm to 22lr in a matter of seconds.
Two to three revolvers in any caliber with at least one available to your weak hand in case you are holding off the aggressor with your primary hand and several of them to just do a New York reload, i.e. drop and draw the next one.
Sorry FallenKnight Jerry Miculek is a freak of nature and though he is fun to watch, I don’t plan on spending tens if not hundreds of thousands of rounds on practice after the outbreak to get near his level.
Now, having said all of that, this was all based on the “oh crap” surprise situations, I prefer to sit back with a scoped .22 rifle and play pop goes the weasel. More than enough power to it to do the job, ammo is cheap, easy to find (again, just have it on hand already) and I can quickly teach any new shooters to use it.
Look at the Ruger Charger, it is a brand new pistol they are bringing out set up for target shooting, but it has the 10/22 (Rugers 22 rifle) action, meaning you have a pistol set up for accuracy with an action that can take all the hi capacity magazines meant for the rifle.
And for our Brit and other peoples whom can not own firearms. Well, thank your forefathers for not protecting that right for you.
Ricepuddin on 05 Jan 2008 at 3:58 am #
Platinum what 1911 have you fired that is 10+? The standard capacity is 7 +1 in the chamber.
Zack the Glock is Austrian not German.
you have to be comfortable with your weapon, if its a firearm or pointy stick. Saying i would use ____ firearm is pointless if you’ve never actually fired one.
my personal handgun choice would be the USP .45cal or USP CT .45.
Tonikaku on 05 Jan 2008 at 9:28 am #
I think he is referring to extended mags, I have a Colt 10 rounder, but it looks goofy as hell sticking out the bottom of a beautiful Wilson Combat CQB, at the point of an outbreak who cares about looks though right?
Albino on 06 Jan 2008 at 11:59 pm #
Well i have read most of these, and i would say 10 of you have seen a gun 5 of you have held a gun and 2 of you have fired a gun. Now let me tell you what my opinion of this is.
#1. Someone said something about using .22 LR ammo, not a bad idea. at longer range the .22 bullet will penetrate one layer of bone go through soft tissue and bounce off the back layer, so this would destroy a zombie brain. but on the other hand the .22 moves at about 1000 feet per second, and hollow points are less common then FMJs. Thus a .22 could go straight through with little or no harm done to a zombie.
#2. i am a huge fan of revolvers, with full moon clips i can reload in a shorter time then a good amount of semi auto marksmen. Now what most of you are going to say is “but after you run out of full moon clips you have to put the bullets in one by one.” well with a semi auto (if your takeing the time to pick up the mags in high stress situation, and if you have ever compeated with a semi auto you know thats the last thing you want to do) you must reload the mags, i have seen very few people pick up a semi auto and be able to put more then 4 rounds in it without help on their first try.
#3 It really scares me when you guys start talking about using 9mm handguns, everyone knows that if you want to knock something down you want slow moving, large caliber rounds. thats why i cast my vote with the .45, and the .357 calibers.
#4 so you want to know makes and models? Ok for the semi autos, Sig P220, of course the colt 1911 i might even say a smith and Wesson. those are all .45s and a child (not that i advocate kids with guns) could take care of them. now for my favorite the revolvers, at the top of my list is the Ruger GP 100 almost anything made by Taurs (sorry i have never bought from them so im not sure if thats the right way to spell it) and one thing that Smith and Wesson is good for (besides dangerous paper weights) is revolvers. look for things in a .357 caliber. the handy thing about .357 is that it can also take .38 s so you have two calibers to chose from.
#5 why no glocks? simple, glocks require a lot of work after a while, now im talking about 10,000 rounds plus, but still if your going to be fighting zombies for a long while your going to need reliably.
i happen to own a Sig P220 a Wather P99 .40 and will soon own a Ruger GP100.
so those are my 5 points on handguns, i will be commenting on rifles and shotguns at a later point, remember don’t keep your handguns where children can reach them, keep the ammo and the gun in different places and when it comes to zombies, Go big or go home and always aim for the head.
Platinum on 08 Jan 2008 at 10:22 am #
Ricepuddin, Tonikaku is correct. The 1911 holds ONE round. Magazines, on the other hand, can hold 7 (standard), 8 (like my 45acp KimPro Tac-Mag), and I’ve seen 10 rounders (total 11 in the weapon). Yes, they look silly hanging out of the bottom of the grip, but looks aren’t very important to a twice dead shufflin-braineater.
Albino on 09 Jan 2008 at 12:25 am #
If you count sawnoff shotguns as pistols there is an alternative for those of you living in the UK. i would not advise it because one its not by any stretch of the imagination legal so you cant really prepare it in advance and two its slow as hell to reload a double barrel shotgun.
Albino on 11 Jan 2008 at 11:52 pm #
Fallenknight, nice to know someone has the guts to step up to the plate and defend the 9mms everyone else, well I’m not angry just disappointed.
Alright well you open with i’m sorry so i assume you want to keep this civil. Now i can agree with a 9 mm, my girlfriends brothers own one and they swear by it.
Ok so i guess i can say Fallenknight, you know your weapon and what your talking about and i would be fine with you backing me up with your nine against zombies any day.
BUT you did make the point that we are going for headshots and all pistol ammo boxes come in amounts of 50 or more so one box should hold you off for a little while. plus .45 is pretty easy to find, the second most common pistol ammo in the world.
if you feel comfortable with a 9mm go with it. But PLEASE dont ask me to pick the make or model my hands are way too big for a 9, thats why i stick with the .45s and .357s ask FallenKnight he seems to know what he is talking about.
and i hope that last part was not aimed at me, i can nail that 6 inch paper target no problem. but that is a good suggestion for everyone else.
FallenKnight on 13 Jan 2008 at 1:50 am #
Thanks, Albino. I see your point about having large hands wrapped around a smaller pistol, it would be worse than the other way around. I have pretty small hands, but I think I’d be more comfortable with a Desert Eagle .50 than you would be with a Walther PPK.
I think we agree on strategy for the job at hand, even if we might use different tools. Personally, I think the 10mm rules (got 2 of them), but finding ammo is a chore, and it’s the main reason I got into reloading.
I have a definite affinity for the .45 (I have 3 and carry one concealed regularly) but if the carrion hits the fan, logistically I’d give the nod to the 9mm based on the following:
1- Availability. If you luck out and find abandoned military vehicles your chances of picking up 9mm ammo is much better than anything else other than .223 since it’s NATO standard issue.
2- Weight. The same number of 9mm rounds will weigh just over half as much as .45s (115 grain FMJ 9mm vs. 230 gr FMJ .45) so you could actually carry more ammo.
3- Recoil. Face it, not everyone in your party will be comfortable with guns, but will see them as a necessity. The lighter recoil of the 9mm will make teaching them to shoot much easier.
4- Adaptability. This pertains more to reloading ammo than anything else, but you can use the same bullets for 9mm, .38s and .357 Mags, which makes your scrounging efforts a bit easier.
Albino, I didn’t mean to direct anything personally at you, so I’m glad you didn’t interpret it that way. You can hole up with us for as long as you want, just don’t make fun of my poor little 9mms! Oh, and bring rum!
For the record, my 5’0″ wife shoots a Dan Wesson .357 with a 2″ barrel with full-house loads with no problems. It’s a beast, but she loves it. I started her out with .38s so she didn’t learn to be afraid of it, and we worked our way up from there.
Stealthweasle on 13 Jan 2008 at 2:40 pm #
This article is rather incorrect in ways that could potentially cost you your life. Therefore, I feel obligated to correct it in order to save lives (possible yours!). It is obvious the author has little or no experience with use and ownership of pistols, unlike myself (a retired Marine corp officer and current police officer)
First off, the officer claims automatics pistols are better than revolvers, but like all simple, cover all answers like that ,it is really not that simple. It depends on YOU!!! Automatics are prone to jamming. Seriously, they have it bad–some guns can jam as often as once per magazine, and these jams are all different and require different techniques to clear. Just as importantly, automatics require constant, careful cleaning that many people can’t provide–perticularly in a stressful, dangerous situation like a zombie attack. Unless you are an experienced pistol shooter like myself, automatics are the wrong for you.
A good double action revolver will almost never fail to shoot, and they physically cannot jam. They require almost no cleaning–a few drips of oil and occasionally disassembly–unlike an automatic which requires complete disassembly and cleaning essentially every time you use it. The old argument about them being slower to reload is true in some ways, but with modern speed loaders and moon clips, this is really not an issue any longer.
I noticed the article did not focus on caliber and model much, other than recommending the Glock. If you must buy an automatic, the glock is the wrong one. Lightweight glocks kick like mules–there’s not much weight to hold down the recoil. For an inexperienced shooter like most people, this will make you look away from your weapon (at least shut your eyes) while shooting and make you effectively scared off it. This is very bad.
If you are inclined to a higher caliber, the classic automatic–the Colt M1911A is the best gun available in my opinion. Solid steel, this weapon is unusually reliable for automatic weapons and contains high quality parts that don’t wear down quickly. In addition, it does not require the meticulous care of normal automatics since it was designed as a military weapon. The downside is that it is inaccurate to say the least, like most military handguns.
For a new shooter, however, I would recommend a .22 caliber pistol. Though barely a quarter of the weight of a forty-five bullet, .22 rounds actually do more damage because when they enter a skull they ricochet around and destroy the brain, giving an almost guaranteed kill. In addition, they are not as loud and have basically no recoil–a good thing for novices.
FallenKnight on 14 Jan 2008 at 1:48 am #
Sorry Stealthweasle, but I have to disagree with your opinion of the Glock, and automatics in general. If you saw the torture tests performed by S&W, Sigarms, Beretta, Ruger, Springfield and Glock on their pistols for military trials you would certainly have no reason to think they would let you down in a pinch.
Most jams or failures to feed in automatics are caused by the magazine, which is easily replaced. Ask your department’s armorer, they’ll tell you the same thing.
You go on to condemn the Glock for its stout recoil and then recommend a 1911 in its place? I don’t have issues with recoil but both my 1911s kick more than my .40 S&W Glock, which weighs more when fully loaded.
And to call the 1911 inaccurate is just plain ignorant. It has been, is now, and will be for a long time, the most popular competition pistol going, in several calibers and configurations. I can reliably hit empty 12 gauge shells at 10-15 yards with GI sights with my Gov’t model and shoot 3-4 inch groups offhand at 20 yards pretty quickly with my Commander.
You say you’re a cop, what do you carry? Do you trust your life (as well as the lives of the Public you’re sworn to protect) to its reliability? Why would you not recommend it to others?
I know cops that still carry revolvers and I would trust them in a firefight a hell of a lot more than someone who shoots with the “Spray & Pray” technique because they carry 4 extra 15 round mags.
FallenKnight on 14 Jan 2008 at 1:57 am #
Sorry, but I left out the ridiculously rugged and reliable H&K autos in the above post. My apologies to all the Elite Forces around the world that use them with exquisite skill.
Albino on 14 Jan 2008 at 9:31 am #
Sorry man I’m with FallenKnight on this one, not only do i not think that you are a cop, i doubt you are an ex Marine. You say that glocks kick like mules, yet they are low caliber plastic handguns. if you want to feel something kick like a mule ask FallenKnights wife if you can borrow her .357 with a 2 in barrel.
FallenKnight on 14 Jan 2008 at 2:34 pm #
Actually Albino, the 2″ .357 doesn’t kick all that bad to be honest. She’ll put 100-150 rounds through it during a range session. On the other hand, she doesn’t like my Taurus model 85 with .38 +P ammo because the grips are really small and do a pretty poor job of absorbing recoil.
I think a compact Glock in .45 or 10mm would come alive when you cook it off, though.
I didn’t want to be too negative on ol’ Stealthweasle but I have my doubts as to his credibility as well. Of course, he could have been a Marine Corps Officer while working in a non-combat role (I have friends who worked in the Motor Pool, too), and 70% of police officers in America have absolutely no prior experience with any type of firearms before joining the force, so he could be a cop, too.
Stealthweasle on 15 Jan 2008 at 2:09 pm #
“Sorry Stealthweasle, but I have to disagree with your opinion of the Glock, and automatics in general. If you saw the torture tests performed by S&W, Sigarms, Beretta, Ruger, Springfield and Glock on their pistols for military trials you would certainly have no reason to think they would let you down in a pinch.”
There is a difference between military and civilian firearms. Military automatic pistols have far looser tolerances between parts and slightly wider barrels to allow longer time without cleaning. While this lets them go through the tough trials required by the military to simulate field conditions (where they would get little cleaning, lots of use, and lots of dirt), it reduces accuracy badly compared to equivalent civilian weapons, which aren’t able to take the wear, tear, and use without cleaning of a military firearm in the field. Revolvers, with fewer parts and far less need for cleaning, even civilian guns can take these sorts of conditions (to a reasonable level).
“Most jams or failures to feed in automatics are caused by the magazine, which is easily replaced. Ask your department’s armorer, they’ll tell you the same thing.”
Whatever they’re caused by, it doesn’t change the fact it’s still jammed and you’re about to get mobbed by masses of the living dead. A jam of any sort will kill you. You are correct, most jams are feed related and can be cleared by releasing the magazine and thus releasing the jammed round, but knowing the source of the issue doesn’t change the fact that jams happen far more often in automatics. And the fact you don’t know how to clear them quickly and efficiently–something that requires extensive range time and practice, and something most people can’t commit due to time issues or money issues–can cost you your life. I put in ~20 hours of shooting in a months (mainly range, with some tactical pistol shooting competitions mixed in). In addition, I put in more hours cleaning my four pistils. How many people reading this page can commit that? It takes extensive time to learn to properly use and clean a weapon. Learning to shoot shell casings from 15 meters is one thing. Learning to identify and clear different sorts of jams is quite another.
“You go on to condemn the Glock for its stout recoil and then recommend a 1911 in its place? I don’t have issues with recoil but both my 1911s kick more than my .40 S&W Glock, which weighs more when fully loaded.”
eh?
“And to call the 1911 inaccurate is just plain ignorant. It has been, is now, and will be for a long time, the most popular competition pistol going, in several calibers and configurations. I can reliably hit empty 12 gauge shells at 10-15 yards with GI sights with my Gov’t model and shoot 3-4 inch groups offhand at 20 yards pretty quickly with my Commander.”
Read my first comment about the differences between civilian and military gun models. I have two 1911s. The first is a military one–the one I can’t hit a target on the other side of the room with. The other–which I use on duty and concealed carry purposes–I could duplicate your shotgun shell trick. Very nice shooting on those groups, by the way, with your commander.
“You say you’re a cop, what do you carry? Do you trust your life (as well as the lives of the Public you’re sworn to protect) to its reliability?”
My 1911 (civilian) usually. Occasionally my issued .38 when my Colt’s in the shop.
“Why would you not recommend it to others?”
I would not recommend it to INEXPERIENCED shooters (remember that word?) because they cannot commit themselves to the extensive time and care such a gun requires in order to master. Revolvers are simpler, more reliable weapons and far easier for novice or occasional shooters to understand and use, and I recommend them to those who cannot commit extensive range time. For those who can afford it, however, automatics certainly are better weapons IN EXPERIENCED HANDs. (sorry about the caps; it’s not anger, just there’s no italics option).
“I know cops that still carry revolvers and I would trust them in a firefight a hell of a lot more than someone who shoots with the “Spray & Pray” technique because they carry 4 extra 15 round mags.”
I certainly don’t spray and pray, nor do any cops I know. Plenty of cops I know–those who only commit the range time to stay qualified on their side arm–carry their issued .38s. There’s nothing wrong at that.
Albino on 16 Jan 2008 at 12:53 am #
FallenKnight after those pictures of your arsenal i needed to change my underwear. i like your style and moves man.
StealthWeasel, i disagree with you about a few things but i have already labeled you as uncreditable so i will leave you alone untill you prove yourself to me.
as for the rest of you, well you guys dont put up much of a fight. the most i can say at this point is find a friend who has a lot of handguns and offer to buy some ammo if they take you shooting. Find a gun you like buy it and practice practice practice. Keep in mind 2012 is right around the corner, just kidding.
anyone know if they are going to start up a long arms forum any time soon?
Stealthweasle on 16 Jan 2008 at 3:31 pm #
“Sorry man I’m with FallenKnight on this one, not only do i not think that you are a cop, i doubt you are an ex Marine. You say that glocks kick like mules, yet they are low caliber plastic handguns. if you want to feel something kick like a mule ask FallenKnights wife if you can borrow her .357 with a 2 in barrel.”
A .40 or .45 Glock is hardly a low caliber handgun. They do kick rather hard, but perhaps I have been a bit hasty in my generalizations about Glocks as they are the only ones I am familiar with. A 9mm or something smaller wouldn’t be bad (and I’m sure they make them), I’m sure, if they recoil like a service Beretta(very mild).
Honestly, I can’t exactly prove myself to you. I will not post pictures of myself, give personal information such as address, name, etc. All I can offer is information.
Chimpy on 16 Jan 2008 at 11:09 pm #
A Glock 9 mm or a decently made 1911 would be idea. The Glock is probably a better choice, but the 1911 has been around for almost 100 years…probably a reason for that ;)
Albino on 17 Jan 2008 at 12:27 am #
yes you offer information, so do i GOOD information, make, model, feet per second, availability, and statements that are helpful.
so you only have experience with glocks? get another gun, a better one since your always bad mouthing them, and if a .40 is too much for you why not get a 9?
FallenKinght might not like this but get a Sig Sauer P226 DAK its a nine so it wont kick like a mule buy that and drain a box or two, then tell us your opinion.
FallenKnight on 25 Jan 2008 at 9:56 pm #
“There is a difference between military and civilian firearms. Military automatic pistols have far looser tolerances between parts and slightly wider barrels to allow longer time without cleaning. While this lets them go through the tough trials required by the military to simulate field conditions (where they would get little cleaning, lots of use, and lots of dirt), it reduces accuracy badly compared to equivalent civilian weapons, which aren’t able to take the wear, tear, and use without cleaning of a military firearm in the field.”
Stealth, this may have been true 75 years ago, but I have shot as-issued WW2 1911A1s that could punch a single hole at 15-20 yards if you put it in a Ransom Rest. I’ve also passed on buying a couple of others that were obviously abused. My Gov’t Model is Mil-Spec and wicked accurate after around 15,000 rounds. Seeing as how issue sidearms are supposed to have a service life of 30,000 rounds, they have to shoot consistently well. “First time, every time” is how an Army Ranger buddy of mine put it.
Most modern autos will feed empty cases, too, so that should lessen the chance of jams by quite a bit. My Glock G22, S&W 1006 and 6904 will.
Besides, with most military-grade pistols made on CNC machinery, the tolerances can be quite tight. H&K recently did a test on one of their pistols that included 5000 rounds with no cleaning, no failures and no loss of accuracy. Any wonder why Elite Forces around the world love them?
Albino, love the Sig 220-series, a cop friend of mine had one and the ergonomics of that gun are stellar. Pistols don’t really get much better. If Beretta hadn’t priced their 92s as low as they did in the Pistol Trials back when they replaced the 1911s, the US Armed Forces would have been issued Sig 226s.
FallenKnight on 25 Jan 2008 at 10:11 pm #
The point of this exercise was to evaluate the pros and cons of pistols by caliber and type. Most firearms instructors will tell you the same thing: the best gun for someone is the one they are most comfortable and confident with.
Stealthweasle carries a 1911, and he’s absolutely right about not recommending it to a novice, because it’s just not a novice’s gun. A .38 revolver on the other hand, is a very good gun for a novice and has the added benefit of being able to teach good habits, instead of trying to “unteach” bad ones.
Revolvers have endured in the era of high-tech automatics simply because they do their job extremely well.
Here’s another puzzler for you: I personally am cynical enough to acquire a concealed-carry permit, yet optimistic enough to regularly carry a 5-shot revolver!
I think
jediwannabe1 on 02 Mar 2008 at 5:03 pm #
Okay, Mace + sword = good Idea. undoubtedly. But it’s not the weapon or shield that counts because a pack of zombies isn’t always going to stay in front of you. And if they surround you, you are screwed. You need to wear the right apparel. SUNGLASSES OR GOGGLES ARE ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for close range combat. There have been cases where AIDs has been spread to people through blood to eye contact. who’s to say zombie blood couldn’t turn you into a zomie if it got in your eye?
Also you want to wear thick clothing like carrharts with a layer of lighter “spit-proof” clothing like leather underneath because although a zombie probably couldn’t bite through carrharts it still might be able to tear your skin or cause abrasions through the material, and carrhart material is not water-proof, so saliva could still get through and into your blood-stream. this might not be a problem though, because I’ve heard (correct me if I’m wrong) that “cuts bleed out not in”.
Also wear a good sturdy helmet, like a skater helmet. You should be able to think of anything else that I have not mentioned.
Albino on 03 Mar 2008 at 12:13 pm #
Jedi i like your style and your moves but GUNS my friend this forum is about GUNS!
Albino on 03 Mar 2008 at 12:27 pm #
one more handgun you might want to look at is The Judge by Taurus, its a revolver (come on now you should have seen that coming when you saw my name on this) that takes colt .45s and .410 bore shells. rather nice to have a pistol and a shotgun in the same package don’t you think?
jediwannabe1 on 04 Mar 2008 at 9:12 pm #
Don’t have a shotgun as your primary weapon unless you have someone else in your group who has different guns, but yes that sounds pretty badass
Albino on 06 Mar 2008 at 9:28 pm #
oh god no i would not consider actually BUYING that, I’m just saying that it could be handy for those people who are saying “but i don’t know how to use a gun” watch Die Hard for crying out loud. that will give you the basic idea, remember the side with the hole on it goes towards what you want to shoot.
jediwannabe1 on 14 Mar 2008 at 11:39 pm #
Alright, sweet. Hey, when the zompocalypse comes, try to spray paint “Albino” on the building where ever you’re hiding. I’ll try to find you… Heh heh.
jediwannabe1 on 14 Mar 2008 at 11:51 pm #
And about the whole “It all depends on how much training you have” thing. It actually all depends on how much training you will have shooting the undead, which is none. okay, maybe you’re the kind of person who will kill anyone if it is self-defense or defending another person, but when you see a ZOMBIE in front of you (probably disgustingly difigured and covered in blood), not only might your hands be shaking from fear but also adrenaline. I’m willing to bet that when you are scared shitless like you would be in the presence of a Zed, your body releases a LOT of adrenaline which can make your hands shake like hell, which may pretty much negate any handgun training you have.
Shadmin on 15 Mar 2008 at 1:20 am #
If faced with zombies and limited to handgun size weaponry, I would opt for either several MAC 10s in semi-auto (not controllable enough in full auto) just for the ammo capacity and it is 45 cal. Several 30 round sticks of 45 cal would give me a fighting chance. A Calico Liberty III pistol with several 100 rd helical feed magazines pre-loaded would also give me a fighting chance. All loaded with a good brand of hollowpoint ammo such as Winchester/Remington etc. I have not had any ammo feeding issues with my MAC 10 as far as hollowpoint ammo is concerned though I have heard stories? A Glock 21 (13 rds +1 in the pipe)would be my choice for backup. Not to give insult but I personally do not think a sword, battle axe, mace or machete would suffice for this not only for the skill required but you had better be in better shape than a triathlete/power lifter (on roids as well!) if you think you can swing a sword/edged weapon that hard or fast for very long in a real fight especially if you think you are going to decapitate human beings (kinda dead or not)! Earlier someone mentioned a Coach Gun? If I am correct in thinking they mean a double barrel shotgun with a sawed off barrel then you have 2 shots then must reload and there are no clips or anything for these unless someone has invented something I am not aware of for break action shotguns? As for the British citizens abhorrence and misinformation concerning firearms I am betting they would quickly reconsider this mindset if faced with a horde of zombies attacking them. Especially considering the weaponry which was suggested by our friend from across the pond, I believe a quick death by Zombie would be the result of those choices. Hands down a firearm is the best weapon available to us currently for this task given the constraints of this discussion as to “HANDGUN CHOICES FOR CLOSE RANGE ZOMBIE DEFENSE”. I am very glad to live in a country which is not as of yet governed by Socialists and in which our Constitution allows us to defend ourselves from the Zombies amongst us. Proud to be an American!!! God Bless!
Albino on 15 Mar 2008 at 11:41 pm #
Shadmin,
well for starters you picked a forty five, good plan. But selecting a Glock is the worst idea ever. I never buy a gun that is made out of the exact same thing as my pellet pistol. A coach gun is a double barreled shotgun, its not sawed off, it has an 18 inch barrel. They are called “coach” guns because stage coaches used to have them in the wild west and the man who was not driving would “ride shotgun” and keep alert for bandits or raiders. Who are you calling “from across the pond” we have names for a reason. you seem way too dependent on mags being loaded for you. right now i have a Sig 220 with 3 loaded mags right next to my bed, a Wather P99 with 2 loaded mags at my desk and if things get really bad i have a 1856 colt cap and ball fully loaded with no caps on it in my dresser drawer. this is not including the 2 rifles and 3 shotguns i can get with ease in the room I’m in now. you are saying “i will look for this and that and hope i can find it when the time comes.” get your stuff together.
Dr. Detroit on 16 Mar 2008 at 7:03 pm #
this is where i am a lucky lucky man, with many pistols at my disposal. Personally, I’d use the m1911a1 .45, you’d want a bigger bullet to knock em down if you didnt kill em. Failing that (or maybe this is a better choice since it has a bigger clip, but its nowhere near as cool) my USP .45 would work also. I also have a USP .40 compact.
I do have access to some Dirty Harry style big ol goddamn revolvers and the pistol that fires shotgun shells as one person mentioned. Impractical and not tactical, thats for sure.
Albino on 16 Mar 2008 at 8:10 pm #
never said the pistol was practical, I’m just saying that you have twice the ammo supply .45s and .410 bore in a revolver? its a good gun for those who have little to no experience aiming and need results quickly
AUSSIEbazza on 01 Apr 2008 at 9:57 pm #
if u have not read the book ZOMBIE SURVIVAL GUIDE by Max Brooks (hahahah goda love the Brooks’) get that shit.
anyway in the book, it says that .22 is the way to go, puts forward the fact that a .22 can penatrate the skull but instead of the bullet exiting through the back of the scull, it ricoche’s (cnt spell it, ricco-che’, lit; change of projectile direction due to impact met with smooth surface at an angle sorda thing)
so ja, .22 wayda go’
plus im holding a dirty old 9mm live round right now and its preddy heavy considering if u had even one box of fiddy or so rounds,
against fiddy rounds of .22 which weighs in at bugger all.
otherwise a .357 Mag would be insane, even worth being eaten for to see one of those connect with a zombie head, goddam!
Ben the Fed. on 06 Apr 2008 at 6:26 pm #
As a federal agent I take it upon myself to understand guns and how they work. If you’re not trained to use a firearm properly, it may become more dangerous than the zombie. Find the gun that is right for you. Go to the range and ask an expert. I’m a strong believer in having each gun customized for its individual user.
-The Desert Eagle .50 AE sucks. It only holds 6+1 rounds, it kicks like a mule, it’s a waste of money, the rounds have the trajectory of a soccer ball, and it weighs a ton. .50 caliber is for big guns!
-Ruger is only good at making the Mini 14 (think: the best features on an M1 and M14 combined) and “cowboy guns.”
-HK pistols (such as the USP and Mark 23) are overpriced and tend to jam under stress.
-Beretta makes an okay gun. But as we should all know: Italian guns and cars look pretty, but they’re really cranky.
-I personally love the M1911. It’s a beautiful gun. I own several Kimbers (in .40 S&W and .45 ACP). They are accurate and can hit targets that are far away. The platform is virtually flawless because gunsmiths have had almost a hundred years to work out the kinks. Our FBI tactical teams carry them because they are reliable and they get the job done. A jacketed hollow point round does a lot of damage. Even if a ballistic vest stops the bullet, the force still knocks the wind out of the guy and knocks him down. Unfortunately, a good quality 1911 is pretty costly. On the bright side, Taurus is coming out with a 1911 priced at around $850!
Albino on 07 Apr 2008 at 9:56 pm #
Ben the Fed, i dont know many agents who go online braging about being FBI. but that aside
Ruger makes no good handguns eh? someone needs to take a look at the GP 100. it is one of the only revolvers that i never hear complaints about.
What the hell is an M1911? do you mean a 1911 M1? i love the 1911 style myself. so i will say that you have SOME, if limited knowledge.
the desert eagle holds 7+1 and does not kick unless you are limp wristed maybe you should spend some more time at the range with your expert. because i know a 15 year old who owns a DE .50 who can go through a mag one handed.
is it true that most Feds are accountants before they even pick up a gun? yeah i think ill take my advice from the local cops first.
Aaron on 13 Apr 2008 at 3:22 pm #
is the desert eagle 50AE still a bad choice for a side arm.
Platinum on 14 Apr 2008 at 5:52 pm #
Aaron, yes it is a bad choice.
Regardless of any other reason, ammo availability.
Albino on 15 Apr 2008 at 12:44 am #
hey i never said it was a good idea, i just said it holds one more round.
i still stand by .45s and .357s and for gods sake no GLOCKS!
Otacon on 17 Apr 2008 at 2:58 pm #
I would want a Glock 17 or 22, simply because of the number of cartridges you can have per magazine.
MOMinuteman on 17 Apr 2008 at 5:44 pm #
“Ruger is only good at making the Mini 14…”
The Mini-14/30 is a decent plinker but over priced and seriously picky about the mags it will eat from…
“HK pistols (such as the USP and Mark 23) are overpriced and tend to jam under stress…”
Overpriced for Joe Sixpack, but when you’re SOCOM, and write your checks off of Uncle Sugar’s bank account, and price is irrelevant, and you want THE BEST, you buy H&K Mk23-Mod0.
The H&K Mk23 Mod 0 was designed for U.S. Special Forces, and they have higher standards than even Uncle Sugar’s Misguided Children when it comes to weapons…
But I’m sure you know that, Ben the Zed, Gun Guy To The Undead…
Just like I’m sure Your Gun Guru-ness also knows that during eval testing, it averaged 1.4″ groups at 25 yds, and was designed to make head shots at 100 yds with the suppressor attached.
It demonstrated an average 30,000 rnd lifespan with .45+P ammo (that means the Hot Shit that eats lesser guns alive at less than half the count), and averaged 6000 rnds between failures.
And that included testing after being buried in dirt, sand, mud, silt, being frozen and thawed, and if the SOCOM testers lived up to their reputation as wise-asses, they fed them a turd and rinsed it out in a bucket of piss and it still went “BOOM!” when the bang switch was engaged.
Don’t sound like jamming under stress to me… I’d bet a lot of Uber-macho, fatass SWAT, HRT, or whatever pretty acronym they wanna use types would vapor lock LONG before the Mk23 would…
“Beretta makes an okay gun. But as we should all know: Italian guns and cars look pretty, but they’re really cranky.”
I tend to agree with this statement, but the M9 would be a helluvalot better if it were the M45…
Had a girlfriend who’s Dad had a 308GTi, and like a trailer trash wife, you had to slap it around to get it to perform…
Albino, M1911 is the original military designation for JMB’s single action semi-auto .45 ACP service pistol. The “M” means Model. And as a Last Ditch weapon, Da’ Judge loaded with 00 Buck, think 5 rnds of .38 in one shot, would work to get a Feasting Fiend or three offa your ass.
If I was in a confined, low infestation area that had to be cleared, I’d have Da’ Judge to back my Mossberg 500, but I wouldn’t use at more than “across the room” range
Otacon, how about a Para-Ordinance P14-45 with it’s 14+1 capacity of sweet, sweet .45 ACP??? Almost as many rounds with much more kickyourassitude…
Of course if you’re that much of a fan of Combat Tupperware, you could go for the G21, 13+1 rnds of Mother’s Milk .45ACP…
The DE .50 is little more than a Big Boy’s toy, much like the 44 AutoMag was…..
Platinum on 17 Apr 2008 at 8:09 pm #
.45 ftw.
tupperware for storing food in the fridge, and rent-a-cops with delusions of grandeur.
One point you missed though, MOMinuteMan, when the shufflers come marching home, no one will be guarding the store.
HK’s for everyone!!!
woot woot!
Otacon on 17 Apr 2008 at 9:00 pm #
I think that a .45 would be overkill. not only dus .45 decreece your mag capacity, you can get near the same killing capability in 9mm or .40 JHP’s. No .45′s for me, thanks.
Albino on 19 Apr 2008 at 4:03 pm #
MOMinuteman, im pretty sure i knew the back story behind the M1911 but i wanted to get one more punch in on Dan the soon to be Zed. as for The Judge, why do you think i brought it up? its a nice gun, but i think you would have to be a few yards away just because of the 410 bore.
Platinum on 24 Apr 2008 at 5:39 am #
Otacon: I’d much rather kill them too much, than not enough. Especially if they are close range.
Albino: The closer they are, the tighter the spread for the .410 A shotgun shell out of a shortbarrel requires up-close-and-personal application. Not metal to forehead close, but if you shoot them across the yard, all you’ll do is get their attention.
Otacon on 26 Apr 2008 at 8:15 pm #
Well Platinum, I guess thats your opinion. And your allowed to have it.
Albino on 26 Apr 2008 at 11:48 pm #
thats why i would not use a 410, i would use a 12 gage.
FallenKnight on 28 Apr 2008 at 12:41 am #
Man, Albino, you have some serious Glock-related issues!:)
Seriously, the only reason I don’t carry my G22 concealed is the same reason I don’t carry my Automag III or my VP70z, it’s too big to hide easily.
Ammo availability is going to be an issue eventually, which is why I have a reloading press for all my pistol calibers. Since not everyone has the space/time/skill/money for their own reloading setup, the more common your pistol’s caliber, the more readily ammo will be available. And since there’s every chance you may have to relocate to a different country, a very common caliber here in the States might be hard (if not impossible) to find. Some countries won’t allow their citizens any military-caliber cartridges, so no .380, .45, 9mm, 5.7x28mm, etc. will be in stores at all.
That’s why you should have at least one .22 pistol; you can find ammo anywhere in the world for it. A really big plus as well is the relatively low noise level from the .22 when you cook it off, making it harder to locate you by sound. And contrary to what Ben the Fed says, my Ruger MkII can hit a 6″ paper plate at 100 yards if I do my part. If you read the box as well, you’ll see that they are potentially lethal to over a mile.
For those of us that love the model 1911 in its various guises, there are some really nice conversion kits out there so you can shoot .22 ammo in your trusty Goverment Model.
The $50 pot-metal POS .380 that you have in your pocket is ALWAYS better than the $5500 hand built, hi-cap racegun locked up in your safe!
Albino on 30 Apr 2008 at 3:08 pm #
Fallenkinght good to see you back around here, sorry but you know me. go big or go home, i will always say .357 and .45 over .22 and i will always say steal over polymer. Always a revolver over a mag fed gun so i dont have to pick up the mags when im out. i say get a speed loader or some full moon clips and go to town.
FallenKnight on 07 May 2008 at 2:48 am #
All right Albino, how do you rate the Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special? I’m on my second one, this time in stainless. It is a bit chunky for my IWB holster, but the intimidation factor makes up for it! You know when a non-zom can look all the way down the barrel and see the bullet that’ll puree his melon, it tends to sweeten their disposition!
And what’s the first rule of gunfighting? Have a gun!
Mike in DFW on 09 May 2008 at 8:49 am #
With the exception of my 50 cal DE I have found all my auto pistols to be very reliable. I have encountered jams with some of my semi auto pistols but in all cases they were easy to clear. In my 9mm Springfield xD, and that was because I bought one of those 30 round extend magazines, but simply pulling the slide back release the stuck round. With my .40cal Sig P226, and that was because I was using some reloads that were specifically for a completion shooting Glock, I think the rounds had less powder so the shooter would experience less recoil, but they wouldn’t full eject through my Sig, again I just had to pull the slide enough for the round to fall out. But using the OEM magazines and reasonably quality ammo I never have jams. My Walther P22 on the other hand was a bitch, it would jam quite often and wasn’t very accurate at all, that is until I put about 500 rounds through it and switched to Federals, the gun doesn’t seem to like Winchester or Remington’s. But the Walther shoots good now, its fairly rare that experience a jam. But I have never had a problem with my .45 HK USP Compact jamming. I also have a tiny little NA Arms 22lr/22mag, it has no accuracy, but kind of expect that out of a half inch barrel, and I have the Taurus Judge everyone has been ragging on. But I like it. I’m not a gun expert, I don’t spend hours every night cleaning and maintaining my weapons, and I’m down to about one day out of a month that I get to hit the range, thanks to economy its getting tough to afford ammo to go out every weekend like I used to. But I would trust all my guns to be reliable. Well except the .50 DE, it does like to have a jam every now and than, and when I normally only put 20 to 40 rounds though it at the range even if its only one jam I find that excessive, and recoil isn’t terrible, but its not meant for rapid shooting or small hands by any means. Though I would probably use the HK or the Sig when Z-Day strikes. That Sig is just insanely accurate and the HK isn’t too far off either. I still need a good high powered rifle, I have a 22lr BA Savage with a 10 mag, but I want an AR. Any good recommendations? BTW this is my first post here, and I’m glad to see there are others out their readying themselves. If someone needs proof that I actually own and shoot guns I guess I could post a picture of my collection, or dig up an old target, but I don’t think anything I said was too extreme. BTW I don’t like Glocks, but my brothers has been extremely reliable, about 4k rounds and no jams at all, but my HK and Sig are much more accurate, plus the Glock has a strange handle that is awkward to me, I think his is the model 21 or 22, its a .40cal. Anyways sorry to go on rambling, just excited to finally chime in about guns and zombies. Stay safe.
Platinum on 11 May 2008 at 11:09 am #
I have a RIA .45 that is my everyday carry. I’ve only put a little less than 200 rnds thru it, but it’s so far 100%. The 1911 is a combat proven design, well-made to withstand all kinds of nastiness that make most other autos into display pieces. Buying good magazines is essential. Most “failure-to-feed” issues (most, not all) are mag-related.
Backup: Browning Buckmark 22lr. An oldy, but a goody.
I’ve got a couple of shotguns close at hand, a pump and a semi. A few hunting rifles (.308, .30-06) and some .22 rifles, and a 9mm carbine (ruger).
I try to buy ammo when I can and keep my weapons in a good working order. Range time is a must. Practice makes perfect.
And to Mike in DFW, Welcome.
Mike in DFW on 12 May 2008 at 4:12 pm #
Thanks Platinum. I know my opinion isn’t as well respected as some others around here, but I would have to agree with the Buckmark 22 by Browning, starting price is right around 200 dollars and its very accurate and like most 22′s there is basically no recoil. And if you happen to run out of 22′s, the thing is heavy enough to be used as a club, but not recommended. But I think any hand gun can be effective as long as the operator takes the time to get to know what they have. I personally would rather have one of my semi auto’s. Their low maintenance, accurate, usually hold more round and their easier in a way to reload. But just my opinion.
Strat on 22 May 2008 at 2:16 pm #
Lots of arm chair cowboys out there… lol
Lots of good opinions out there too. I’ll give mine and see how many disagree with it.
A good semi auto rifle like an AR-15 will always be better then a handgun. Even up close the .45 doesn’t have nearly the power of the 5.56 NATO.
1st choice, AR-15 with 16″ barrel. If you’re forced to use a pistol against Zombie’s you weren’t thinking something through or didn’t have a good plan.
2nd choice for me, a semi auto 12 gauge (FN makes a few nice models) Loaded with 00 buckshot and some hollow point slugs. Much better to have 8 rounds in my 12 gauge then 8 rounds in my 1911. Much more power behind a 1 ounce peice of lead then a 230 grain.
And 00 buckshot is 9 peices of 9mm ball for every shot.
3rd choice, Ruger 10/22 with and AWC suppressed barrel. The 22lr may not be the most powerful round but we’re talking about damaging a brain here. Go take your 22lr with cheap hollow point and shoot a milk jug. Then try and convince me that it wouldn’t kill someone. I’ve got 20+ 30 round magazines sitting here for mine ready to go. PITA to reload but so is every other magazine I have.
9mm vs 40 vs 45… Doesn’t matter, you’re not trying to knock them down, you’re trying to damage the brain. Whatever YOU shoot well is the best gun to have. I’ll be holed up in my basement with my years supply of food and ten 50 gal drums of water and my propane and wait it out.
BTW, it’s a MAGAZINE, not a clip. If you don’t know what the difference is don’t bother trying to argue about guns cuz you obviously have the intellectual fortitude of a monkey.
While I will agree that the 1911 is the best fighting pistol designed… what’s with the Glock hating? Who cares if the trigger sucks? You’re shooting zombies, not trying to make pretty little groups on paper. If the Glock sucked so bad why does appx 60% of law enforcement use it? It’s reliable, comes in multiple calibers, mostly idiot proof.
I love me 1911′s but I’ll take a keltec if that’s all that’s around.
let the bashing begin!
Platinum on 23 May 2008 at 5:41 pm #
@ Strat:
Just a few observations about your choices.
#1: Not a handgun.
#2: Not a handgun.
#3: Not a handgun.
We can dispute differences in weapons all day, but you (and a few others) are right about: “Whatever YOU shoot well is the best gun to have.”
Oh, and I’m a Glock hater, too. Why do 60% of LEA’s use them. They’re cheap, easy to arm the force with. Ask around, and see how many are bought as 2nd, or off-duty weapons.
Albino on 02 Jun 2008 at 10:29 pm #
good to see some people can see the light about Glock. like you and just about everyone has said, use what you know. get good with what you got, and when Z day does come, have some fun, might be your last chance.
Brent223 on 11 Jun 2008 at 12:55 am #
Only head shots count, so I’m going with my AR15 as primary, and my Ruger 22/45 as my primary backup.
The AR is capable of head shots at 100 meters, and the Ruger can do it at 25 meters.
Run out of ammo in close quarters? Aluminum baseball bat.
FallenKnight on 13 Jun 2008 at 7:08 pm #
Strat has a good point for a new thread, even though an M16/AR15 would not be my first choice….
The main plus for a pistol is its size. You can keep (at least) one with you at all times without being overly burdened, even with a few extra mags.
Another plus is the fact that most people can use them one-handed. If you shoot anything other than a .22 rifle one-handed, you will only accomplish two things, neither of which are good: first, any shot of more than a few yards is just going to waste ammo, secondly, and worse, it will attract unwanted attention.
The situation gets much worse if you have to switch to your off hand. I’m right handed, but I make it a point to be able to shoot left-handed, with both one- and two-handed grip shooting. If for some reason your dominant hand is incapacitated, and you can’t do anything to defend yourself & others with your off hand, well, it’s been nice knowing you.
If all you’re comfortable shooting is a .22 target pistol, then set up some 6″ paper plates at various heights & ranges and practice, practice, practice. If you can consistently hit a target like that out to 25m then your chances are way better than average, and I’ll make room for your bedroll somewhere…even if you make fun of my puny 9mms and my poor little unloved Glock! :)
Albino on 19 Jun 2008 at 1:02 am #
ow i cant help thinking that last sentence was aimed at me. either way you better be setting a place for me and my massive amounts of .357s .45s and 12 gages ha ha ha. No Knight has a good point, just get comfortable, i cant believe I’M saying this but *shudder* a .22 is better then nothing. well now i have to go shoot off some .45s to make my self feel more manly for advocating a .22. maybe ill get out the 10 gage to make up for it.
Docwade on 24 Jun 2008 at 10:36 pm #
I think I experience an aneurysm every time I read through this thread.
FallenKnight on 08 Jul 2008 at 2:35 am #
All right, Albino, if you’ll settle for .38 +P ammo we’ll make room for you! I’m just about ready to run off a batch of about 1200 rounds of reloads, and they’re all so nice & shiny.
What’s up Doc? ( I love saying that!) How about your choice of a handgun for Z-Day?
Since practice makes perfect, I just spent 2 hours at the range doing stress-fire drills that go like this: with your slide locked, drop your empty magazine, load 1 round into the mag, load the mag into the gun, release the slide, fire the round at a target 7-10 yards out.
I did this with 150 rounds of .40s in my 4006, both right & left handed, and I’ll tell you this much, my hands were shaky & cramping by about 100 rounds, but the last 50 were where the stress comes into play, and I was doing better than I thought I would (I had about 8-10 fliers).
It certainly made me aware of what it takes to make consistent hits on a target, even at close range. I may do the same drills with my MKII and see how hard it is with .22s.
And for anyone who is skeptical about .22s try this: put a cantaloupe behind a piece of 1/4 inch plywood and shoot it at 30-40 feet with a .22 pistol and tell me again how that won’t work. The effect is even more dramatic with a rifle, but that’ll be a different thread…
Albino on 18 Jul 2008 at 5:28 pm #
Sounds like you had some fun Knight, what do you think about the 5 Seven for zombies, with the right type of ammo it can go through 20 layers of Kevlar. the only problem i can see with it is the ammo, 5 Seven is not exactly as easy to come by as anything else.
Docwade on 22 Jul 2008 at 5:47 pm #
I would stick with my Glock 34 if I happen to have it when the shtf. Unfortunately, I would probably have my carry gun instead. 9mm is more than adequate for a head shot, ammo is ubiquitous, many police/security/private citizens have Glocks so, “finding” mags and ammo if you are on the move is a bonus. .22lr is also adequate for the job at hand. Of course, I’ll take whatever is available until I can get home.
Exotic choices will be great for the movie-style coup de grace on yourself. Just a sampling of oddball choices in this thread: Desert Eagle, FN 5.7, Mac10. Are you kidding me? For all the reasons already stated — completely bad choices. I did like the statement, “the 5.7 will penetrate 20 layers of ballistic material…” — I envision a zed with its head wrapped in spectrashield with two little eyeholes like some insane soccer ball.
A fencing foil?!?!? Seriously? I’ll tell you what. Run some full-on wind sprints for about 5 minutes and try to hit a quarter taped to a string swinging in the breeze with your foil. In addtiion, the back of the orbit is not like and egg shell in strength. I had to use a hammer and chisel to dissect the orbit on a cadaver. Also, there are only three openings in the back of the orbit to the cranial cavity. Yeah, I know, the foil is pointy and all…
FallenKnight on 29 Jul 2008 at 11:21 am #
Albino, I like the idea behind the 5.7, but the civilian ammo available is a castrated version of the military AP round, and it won’t penetrate a level II Kevlar vest. Right now, they aren’t widespread enough to make foraging for ammo less hopeless, but if you found a decent supply you’d be set, because carrying a pistol and rifle that use the same ammo would be outstanding, especially when weight is an issue. That’s why I like the .22 so much. If you feel less than manly using a .22 you could always upgrade to a .22 Magnum, but the muzzle flash from my AMT Automag IIs is bigger than a .357, so it would probably trash your night vision. But a nice lever-action in .22 Mag, hmmm…..
Docwade, you make some really well thought out points. Except for what I said above, I agree 100%. A DE .50 wouldn’t just be hard to find ammo for, it’d be like carrying a cinder block around. And the Mac 10 was designed to be sprayed around like a garden hose. Even on semi, their accuracy isn’t good enough to justify the choice, ammo capacity aside.
I think I missed the bit about a fencing foil, but once again you’re right on the money. Even if someone had a modicum of skill with one, trying to make a hit on a small target is hard enough under calm circumstances, it’s completely different under stress. Besides, you just may not have room to wield one (compact pistol for the win!). My suggestion to those bound and determined to engage in hand-to-hand is to use a very sturdy machete and try to hack off their hands and “go in” under the chin instead of trying for the eye.
Kevin P on 03 Aug 2008 at 6:50 am #
A Glock? Haaa! The day I rely on a pussy 9mm is the last day, try a good old 1911 .45
Docwade on 13 Aug 2008 at 1:32 pm #
I like 1911′s also, but you are assuming the .45acp will have the same knockdown/hydraulic shock effects on zombies as humans — I really don’t think this will be the case. If you take this into consideration, a head shot is a head shot whether you are using a .22lr or a 500 S&W magnum. I’ll take what is at hand whether it is a broomhandle mauser or an AMT 44 automag freshly freed from someone’s glass case.
And while you are turning your nose up to a “pussy 9mm Glock”, I’ll be more than happy to pick it up next to the gut and bone pile that is left of you and your empty 1911.
Angryvikingman on 26 Aug 2008 at 6:12 pm #
I honestly hadnt considered the Ruger for that, but you are correct, it is functional, and has a ready supply of mags that you can get at walmart, or local retail chains. I have one thing to say about the ceiner conversion though. I have one in my AR-15, and it functions flawlessly, and black dog machine makes hi cap mags for it. The kit did have a break in period though, and it was really frustrating until all the kinks worked out. One bad thing about the rugers though is that they have problems feeding certain types of 22lr ammo. At least in my experience they do.
Docwade on 31 Aug 2008 at 9:39 pm #
Oh, I nearly forgot to mention, yes, they do make 20 and 30 round drums for the Saiga 12. Wraithmaker makes one that adds around 2.5lbs to the weapon unloaded as well as having terrible customer service, a rediculously overpriced product, and a drum that the company recommends that the end user modify their weapon to conform to the finicky nature of their drum. Sadly, MDarms hasn’t started shipping their drum yet though initial beta testing seems promising. Stick with the agp 10 round mags if you go Saiga 12 for your “defensive pistol” choice. Tromix makes a nice 8 inch barrel conversion Saiga 12 that could qualify as a pistol that you could also use as an improptu flamethrower.
Dr Who on 23 Oct 2008 at 11:50 am #
One thing you have to realize is that what you use against living targets and undead ones are two different things. Against people you want high knockdown and you aim center mass. Blow nice big holes and toss them across the room. Try that on a zed and he’s just goind to get back up and come at you again. That coupled with muzzle rise (I’ll go into that in a moment) and magazine capacity give the larger calibers some drawbacks. Against zombies you want to make headshots, knockdown power doesn’t mean much here unless you like turning zed heads into tomato paste. Mind you knockdown CAN be effective. If you’re suddenly surrounded by a group, you don’t have to worry about aiming at their rotting noggin, just go centermass, knock them back and down. Then pull your .22 and make head shots.
As for muzzle rise, yeah with a decent gun and a little strength and training the rise on 9mm and .45s isn’t too much to deal with, but that 1/4 second difference could be the difference between dead zombie and getting your first zombie love bite.
Revolvers vs. semi-autos, they both have advantages and disadvantages. CARRY TWO pistols. If you do happen to jam one (it will happen at the worst time of course) pull your second, if you empty your revolver, you have a second.
It’s been said before, but needs restating, ammo is going to be hard to find. While you .50AE may do REALLY neat things to walking corpses when you run out of ammo you’re screwed. Reloading helps, but you still have to collect the spent brass and have the powder (you’ll use it up quicker), the bullets themselves (still hard to find, but you could cast them, still uses more lead), and larger primer caps. .22 cal ammo is going to be everywhere, after that you’ll have 9mm, .380ACP, .45cal, .380cal, .40s&W, then others.
Melee weapons is another thread, but I’m using a flail (ball and chain). I’ve trained with one for years though.
Other specific points. Calico’s an interesting pistol but it won’t hit the broadside of a barn, it’s a bastard to reload the helical mag (a reason it has a loading machine to do it), plus you just can’t find clips for it , AND it wieghs a ton. Get yourself a .357 derringer and make a necklace out of it, just in case. A coach gun is a good “Oh SH..T!” weapon for one use. You’ll probably shoot both barrels at the same time and clear everything in front of you, then pull your pistol out.
Another thing, if it is zombie apocolypse, look into black powder. You CAN make it youself. But we’re talking TRUE handcannons now.
Just my thoughts.
“Zed’s dead baby, Zed’s dead.” – Butch
Scaryalbino on 28 Oct 2008 at 10:19 pm #
alright, most of you know me and know that my posts usually mean high caliber cannons, Fallenknight i hope you still read this forum.
So i was looking at a good pistol for my girlfriend and *sigh* the Sig P232 just jumped out at me. its a 9mm so i shot a few rounds, yeah i liked it, it was good it had great recoil, i could put the muzzle back down where it was after each shot. so yeah, im not saying i would use a 9mm but i know its something i would consider.
THAT said, Ruger Redhawk double action .44 magnum, why kill a zombie when you can turn three of them into paste.
So there you go Knight, theres your big victory I ScaryAlbino just advocated the nine millimeter. Now if you can get me to like Glock then i will be amazed.
taekwondoeman on 09 May 2009 at 7:12 pm #
seriously though, think about revovlvers. I’ll admit, single actions suck, and double actions are slower to reload than semi-autos. But auto-loaders Jam up very easily, I have a .45 and i only shot maybe 200 rounds out of it and it jamed up half the time, as what happens with most auto-loaders. DA revolvers on the other hand never Jam up and if zombies are comin for u, u want something u can rely on. although most revolvers only carry six rounds they are so easy to reload. wat will happen if u run out of mags for ur auto-loader? it is gonna be a bitch to push those rounds into a clip, especially if ur surrounded by zombies who are eating u. whereas all u have to do with the revolver is push the cylinder out, empty the bullets and put new ones in,it only takes about 10-20 seconds and and less if u have a speed loader. but if ur tryin to put new rounds in a clip, it takes a few minutes and by then ur already digesting. Im not sayin that auto-loaders are bad but in my opinion a DA revolver would be better in the long run, in dependibility and reloading.
Zombilicous on 17 Jun 2009 at 3:56 am #
As for finding good steel weaponry, go to where they originally were made. Toledo in Spain and Kyoto in Japan are two big ones i know of, but i am sure there are great forgeries around europe and the east. I would not go with a scimitar simply because most were made of iron back in their hay day, and obviously the demand for major improvements have not been as on par as the development of Spanish steel, that which ruled the oceans at one point in time.
Overall for weapons, I would probably prefer the beretta firestorm, as while it’s a rifle it does accept clips and as with many old west guns, is chambered to use the same ammunition as your sidearm. I would prefer a .45 for stopping power but given that quantity might weigh in over quality, you may prefer going with the slightly smaller .40 or even 9mm for increased ammo capacity. I wouldn’t go with a smaller cartridge.
As far as actually carrying a sword, i wouldn’t. maybe a machete for it’s pure hacking power and multifunctionality, but def not something as heavy as an axe or similar bladed weapon. And also, you’re going to get really tired regardless of what bladed weapon you use..that’s why the old armies worked in formations and had shields out of necessity, not just because it was a splendid idea.
Monty on 13 Oct 2009 at 12:25 am #
I don’t feel that I fit the profile of most posters here. Here’s my two cents… my tactical background is as a martial artist for eighteen years, and as a hunter for ten, and as a rock climber for two. Here are some random strategic zombie-related thoughts (while still staying in the general same book as the thread topic):
Capacity, accuracy, practical stopping power, ease of use and maintenance, universality, and convenience are all pluses.
Many of the good (in my opinion after having read way too many forums-and watching tactical videos) ones have been listed: USP, Sig226, 1911 (although it has a lot of haters out there), 92FS, .357… all powerful, accurate, and easy to feed. Maybe a nice .22 for training or light-duty use… am I missing anything important? The only pistol I have fired is an old .22 revolver half a dozen times and a glock 9mm once. I’d drop the .22 it in a heartbeat for any of the others, but until I see something better it’s my best friend (after my BSA, double-barrel (sawing it into a near-pistol on Z-Day), and wakizashi.
I’ve spent infinitely more time firing rifles and shotguns than pistols (remington speedmaster .22 (8×32) , BSA Monarch 30.06 (w/Bushnell), Win 1897 12ga, Colombian ver. of k98 30.06, and Beretta side by side 20ga. A pistol would just be another tool-and likely a little-used one. I’d trade some pistols for a high-end wakizashi or even really good-quality hunting knife. Generally, we want distance, and distance means rifles. Vs. Z’s I’d take shotgun>pistol close range… conclusion:
Bang for the buck-on topic? I’d want to have a 9mm and a .357-ammo versatility and I’m confident I can use either. Really though, I’d pick up as many pistols (and holsters) as I could find. Btw… no one has even once mentioned mag drop pouches that I’ve noticed-seems like a good accessory for all the reloaders (brass) and magazine-using types.
Other useful Z-day measures: greaves, a good shield (plywood is fine), good leather boots, hand to hand weapon (even as an elite martial artist if I’m having to throw or push kick this ZMFer to the ground I’m closer than I ought to be-at least one teammate should have a ‘real’ katana, another a sword/shield combo for guarding the stairs), climbing and rappelling gear (including rope).
If you have the luxury to be worrying about what pistol you’re going to carry you should first go over all the other preparations “one more time”. Please bring whatever you like-I’ll take whatever spare you can spare…
Okay.. that’s coming out pretty haphazardly, but I’ll leave it at that.
Sonwoo on 06 Apr 2010 at 4:10 pm #
well.. I own a Beretta m9 9x19mm parabellum. I would think it’s a good choice against zombies. ( Don’t you think?). I do stockpile surplus ammunition(4 extra mags and about 500 rds) in my house, just IN CASE an apocalypse as this happens. Personally, I think it’s better to just have a handgun with a good amount of rounds (15 Rds) in each magazine and you can aim well with. Yea.. it is kinda big and a little heavy for a 9mm.. but all that adrenaline pumpin in ya?!, i don’t think an extra pound or two of weight would hinder you from running from them as fast as you can.
big bear29 on 16 Mar 2011 at 3:41 pm #
This may be a bit off topic but I hate how a lot of the hollywood movies play out . It’s always the people that are the smartest , bravest or the ones that know how to survive that end up staying behind and sacrificing themselves to save a bunch of morons that have all the survival skills of a bunch of suicidal lemmings that end up getting killed any way . If I was facing an advancing hoard of zombies and I was stuck with some malibu barbie look alike and all this idiot would do is stand around and cry and scream at the sight of the advancing hoard , I would not give up my life to distract the zombies just so that idiot could run around the corner and get herself killed because she decided to take a break because she thinks its safe just because she can’t see the zombies anymore . I don’t care how long her legs are or how big her breasts are I would not throw away my life to save some one that doesn’t even have the will to save themselves .
Angryvikingman on 17 Mar 2011 at 2:57 pm #
I agree, stupid panicky people should be left to get eaten while the rest of us get away. Them and the religious nuts who always start something.
Aside from that, I really disagree with this article with the choice of handguns. Yes, lots of people like the “tactical tupperware” type guns, but I like good ole reliable steel when it comes to a handgun. I own a CZ. CZ pistols are used by more police and military organizations in the world than the pistols of any 2 other major manufacturers combined. They’re ultra reliable, accurate, affordable, and come in a variety of shapes and sizes. The most popular of which is the CZ 75. This model has lots of variants, but the base model can take mags ranging in size from 10 rounds to 32 rounds, just like the glock. They’re really easy to clean and care for. I love my CZ 75 SP-01, and I use it to compete in IDPA matches. I have 3 18rnd mags and 1 32rnd mag. That puts me at a total of 86 rounds that I can carry for use when needed. I’ll definately be adding more mags soon. I love this gun and I’ll be getting the CZ 97B as soon as I can afford it. (.45 cal) I suggest you check out their great line of guns. http://www.cz-usa.com
kat on 26 May 2011 at 2:19 pm #
Best wepon that i would use would be a brearta because it can have a better aim and the revolver is good for a gun if you are having 2 secondary like me. you caan have to secandary\
Andy's Gun World on 09 Jul 2011 at 9:55 pm #
I would take a G11 with Red dot and a CZ 75 with three round burst. Then I would buy light weight pro and Ninja pro so I could sneek up on the zombies. I’d also get RC XD, Napalm, and then attack dogs.
mumbles on 16 Oct 2011 at 7:51 pm #
CZ SP-01 tactical, trinium night sights, hogue grip 18+1 and a Ruger GP-100, 6″bbl, stainless….The CZ for sheer capacity and availability of 9mm….The .357 for power if needed and .38 if they’re available….both are a lil on the heavy side but never have had any problems as far as reliability….main weapon would prob. be my M&P 15-22…..scoped and a bi-pod and its picken em off yards away….quad tac rails gives it lots of room for all the fun accessories, laser, flashlight, scopes/red dot, etc…..not getting into the other long gun choices as that is not the topic.
good luck all
clay houle on 13 Nov 2011 at 7:06 pm #
military standard M9 or 50cal deagle… if needed id use a 10gauge thick mild steel bat a sharp tip and for fun a pocket knife welded tacks with duct around it so you cant break it off if the bat is busted or rusted due to its just skinning off