Riddling the Undead
Soldiers and shooters as a rule love full auto, in combat many see full auto as better, but this is against as enemy that is shooting back. What if that enemy isn’t shooting back, what if that enemy is a zombie horde?
The machinegun, when introduced in large scale, during World War I, it took an unspeakable toll of human life and caused both sides to become bogged down in a war that both expected to take months not years. With tactical advances, the best way to deploy these weapons has become better understood and as guns evolved it has also become a more effective weapon. However, while the hail of bullets that can be laid down by machineguns and assault rifles is impressive and can keep the enemy’s head down so that you can take advantage and claim victory, against a foe which fears nothing it will do little more than waste bullets, and should be viewed as many a general in the civil war viewed the gatling gun, a waste, since it was not necessary to riddle the enemy with bullets since one would likely cause death or debilitating injure.
But enough history, of many reasons not to use full auto here are the primary ones.
- Waste: To kill a zombie you need not riddle them the a dozen holes, rather a single well placed round in the brainpan will suffice. Firing off hundreds of round to eliminate a couple dozen will also lower your ammo stocks and you may find yourself confronted with a horde and prematurely out of ammo, and likely the next meal.
- Control: Full auto weapons are notoriously difficult to control. Even a trained operator has difficulty placing every round from an M4 or AK47 into the chest of his target, let alone the head, and many special force groups, Delta, SEALs, SAS, ect… only use full auto when laying down either suppressive fire, which does nothing to deter the undead, rather it attracts them to the noise, and breaking contact with an enemy after an ambush. Most other times you will find them using semi auto.
- Reliability: Though most modern weapons designed as military weapons will function well either in semi or full auto modes the later will take a greater toll on the weapon as it raises the temperature of the weapon quickly and in an extremely dirty weapon may cause malfunctions that will make its user waste precious time clearing.
- Flaming Handguards: Though most modern warriors may not be familiar and the black rifles the world over have little danger of this, older assault rifles and light machineguns with wooden hand guards that lack heat shields, AK47s and RPDs just to name two, have the very real danger of catching on fire during sustained firing, though you are likely to be eaten before that happens.
Though these are not all the disadvantages full auto faces they should provide food for thought when a weapon capable of full auto fire falls into your hands it should be viewed with suspicion and if found you should question how well it served its previous owner, then switch it to semi and move on.
And remember, against an undead horde advancing on your position full auto is often the coward’s bravado.
Stay safe. Stay informed. Stay alive.
Comments (18)
Platinum on 14 Jun 2008 at 11:31 am #
This is why selectable 3-round burst was developed.
Panic fire or adrenaline-charged firing thereby emptying the clip was an issue in Vietnam.
Selectable double-tap is even better.
A heavy machine gun between hip and knee level would make the shufflers move a little slower, but isn’t the best tactic. Throwing that much lead in an adrenaline charged atmosphere is not a good thing.
And, as always, be aware on what’s on the other side of your target. You’re not going to have 100% accuracy with any weapon.
ZzDeuceX on 16 Jun 2008 at 10:10 am #
Full auto… For me it’s less a question of wether or not to use it, more like: Are you Rambo? Because the answer to that question also answers the question of full auto. Unless you have had years of experience and know exactly how to shoot the weapon your using, there is no need for that many bullets to be flying. In short, no one is Rambo, and no one is Chuck Norris…only Chuck norris is Chuck norris. Stay away from the fully aotomatic weapons and try instead the semi-auto or the three round burst ones. Chances are that there will be slim pickings of these kinds of weapons anyway. My advice? Become famliar with a machette. Like the man says: It never needs reloading.
German Psycho on 17 Jun 2008 at 10:04 am #
I don’t know about other armies, but soldiers over here in Germany learn not to use full auto on assault rifles. Full auto is used only in FUBAR situations, and probably only to give the soon to be overrun soldiers some hope.
Or is it, because our gouvernment takes the Zombie threat more seriously? It is much harder recognize Zombies in Germany, as dressing like a rotten corps is called fashion over here. And I suppose even Zombies would march in a perfect formation here.
I also dislike the three rounds setting. It is more suited for enemies that can be hurt. If the first round doesn’t hit the head, why should the other two hit there by chance? At least two of the rounds would be wasted. In a world, where ammo is limited and the Zs are not, where’s the use for 3 round bursts?
I agree about the machete, but I would prefer to thin out the Z’s ranks before they get this close. I think, the best weapon would be a silenced assault rifle set to semi auto.
ZAC Admin on 18 Jun 2008 at 8:15 pm #
One area that you did not touch on is somewhat in the same arena as “waste”. The average person would not have access to such a weapon, however, and more importantly, they would not have the ability to properly use it. I could easily see someone getting their hands on the weapon and dumping numerous rounds into the undead horde without any thought. This would not accomplish much, aside from leaving you with an empty weapon.
Full auto should be used as a last resort. If I had a weapon that was full auto, I would not use that until I was cornered and needed to grade down some zombies in a hurry. Even then it might be more to disable the zombies long enough to escape rather than dispatch them permanently.
ZAC Admin on 18 Jun 2008 at 8:16 pm #
“I agree about the machete, but I would prefer to thin out the Z’s ranks before they get this close.”
Yes, the machete doesn’t need reloading or anything fancy in order to use. But like you said, and I agree, I would much prefer a defensive standpoint at a distance.
Maingun on 22 Jun 2008 at 8:37 pm #
Hello to all-
Excellent comments on this matter regarding the highly debated “wastefull” full auto” VS the “controlled” more precise firepower of a weapon set to semi auto (if even an option- as most of us do not have access to a weapon capable of selective fire). As you probably gathered i fall into the “semi auto” supporters group. Having spent some time in the military back in the late 80’s early 90’s utilizing full auto firing on a fairly regular basis i can honestly say that full auto fire from an individual’s rifle is as described more difficult to control and score lethal hits with than a skilled marksmen with his weapon set to semi auto (one round everytime the trigger is pulled).
Where full auto fire really comes into its own is when used in a crew served weapon such as a m249 saw (squad automatic weapon) or an m-60 belt fed 7.62 nato (excellent weapon by the way!), better still is the M2 heavy barrelled machine gun or “Ma duece” as its usually referred to. These are all excellent weapons most of us will probably never fire in our lifetime and certainly will not have access to when the zombie apocalypse is in full swing!
With that said im going to make a practical suggestion on this matter, please realize this is with more than a few rounds of experience in the sport of shooting.
I can think of no better weapon in this scenario than that of the excellent quality RUGER 10/22. ( A brief pause while some recover from a fit of laughter!) now before im crucified on this matter and declared insane consider this:
* Availability- the 10/22 is probably the best
selling, most available rifle on the planet.
* Affordability- Lets face it (unfortunately) most
of us are not gun nuts, so coming up with
1,500-2,000 dollars for a good assault rifle and
the needed items to go with it (ie. magazines-
ammo-$$$$) is not a realistic option for most
people. A good 10/22 can be had at your
local “mart” or sporting good store for around
$ 200 or less!
* Accuracy- A more accurate rifle for 100 yards
or less (with a decent scope) cant be found!
* Dependability- Firearms are simply not made
that are more foolproof/dependable.
* Firepower- Thats right firepower! a typical
ar-15, mini 14 or ak-47 clip holds 30 rounds.
50 (fifty) round magazines can be found all
day long for the 10/22 on line for $39.95.
* Controllability- A more controllable weapon
you will not find! placing a 10 round cluster
in an area the size o a half dollar at a fairly
rapid pace is not uncommon at 50 -75 yds.
* Custom options/accessories - No firearm ever
produced has more options available to its lucky
owner. Scopes,flashlights, lasersights, red dot sights-
equipment rails, high capacity magazines etc. etc….
* Reduced combat load- The lightweight of the 10/22
is instantly noticeable, the real benefit however is the
ability to carry thousands (thousands!!) of rounds with
you. Especially if in preloaded high capacity magazines
not only will you be saving a lot of weight, but the amount
of well aimed fire you will be able to maintain can not be
matched with any assault rifle!
* Low cost practice- No ammuntition is more widely
available or more affordable than the timeless
.22 long rifle. A “generic” brand of 5.56 nato (223)
ammo will run you $7.99 for twenty (20!) rounds.
Decent .22 ammo at a local “mart” will set you back
a grand total of $10.99…….for 800 ROUNDS!!.
The more practice you do the better shot you will
become- do the math!
* Adequate stopping power- Now its made sense to most
people up to this point, this however is where most people
will raise an eyebrow and make a “i dont know what he’s
been smoking!” comment. Please know that i am not
on anything (illegal), and let me explain - HUMAN BEINGS
ARE NOT THAT HARD TO KILL!!. No i have never killed a
person and ill bet you have not either! Dont take my word
for it- the government has been in the process of arming
its combat troops with less and less powerful rifles to its
servicemen since the turn of the 19th century:
* 30/40 krag
* 30.06 springfield
* 7.62 nato (308)
* 5.56 nato ( a .22!) for the m-16.
Yes i see you waving your hand! and i know the 5.56
nato or 223 remington while it fires a .22 caliber
jacketed projectile is much more powerful than the
“lowly” .22 rimfire. This i will not challenge! what i will
debate is just how “lowly” the .22 rimfire is.
Consider this:
The benchmark high velocity .22 rimfire
round is the “STINGER” this round leaves
the barrell of my 10/22 at approx. 1700
fps (feet per second), with a muzzle energy
of 200 foot pounds of energy.
To most people this information amounts to nothing
so i will sum it up simply as this. Being a fairly healthy
person and having done “extensive” shooting with
this stuff- if one of these .32 grain pieces
of copper coated candy found its way into my brain i
would fall over dead! If i did not instantly- the shooter
could put as many additional well placed rounds into it
as he would deem neccessary!
* Secondary survival role(s).- In addition to all of the
positive features listed above, the .22 rimfire can serve
in limitless usefull roles wether it be to put meat on the
table (squirrels, birds and the like can be harvested
with minimal meat damage). The .22 also is relatively
quiet compared to centerfire rifles and should draw
unwanted attention to your position/situation.
As stated before it can also hold its own against
unwanted “non zombie” tresspassers/evildoers.
Well that about raps up my thoughts on this matter ( sorry about being long winded ) , Dont misread this as suggesting the .22 rimfire is the cure all end all rifle and you should throw your your ar-15
or akm into the river! Please keep them handy but dont forget to add a good .22 rimfire to you post zombie survival arsenal.
something “practical” to think about.
Take care and good hunting!
Kasper on 25 Jun 2008 at 5:52 am #
If you do find yourself equipped with an automatic, and you just HAVE to go Rambo (or one of your unstable friends insists on this), there is increased efficiency against zombies if you gain elevation.
Head-on (my apologies) a human head might constitute some 5-10% of the available target area. If you can get above a massed group of zombies, for example in your fortified hide-out, it’s all head-chest-shoulder. Perhaps as good as 30-40% available target area will then be head, depending on height. Making a sweep here would be more efficient ammo-wise, as fewer bullets are wasted in the stomachs and thighs, or in the chests of the taller zombies. It’s still not economical, but significantly more so, and we have to accept that some members of our un-prepared retinue might require the stress-relieving feeling of just letting go. (I will not use the word “fodder”. If it becomes a habit, I might slip up at an awkward time)
Also, some of the really heavy rifles can shoot through brick walls. I imagine the damage done by those would significantly affect the structural integrity of zombies, so if you’re about to run on to your next strong point, break a few legs to slow their front line down.
Rufomagus on 02 Jul 2008 at 8:20 pm #
Full auto is for Americans, real soldiers use single aimed shots unless they are involved in suppressing fire in combat situations with armed combatants.
A trained marksman is much more effective in a “target” situation than when using controlled burst of automatic fire. If you want the proof check with any Special Forces types, that’s why they like scopes on rifles.
I can tell the author above hasn’t spent a lot of time in combat - you don’t and can’t fire a SLR type rifle fast enough (unless you come up with a new feed mechanism for rounds) for it to catch fire. It WILL GET DAMN HOT and quickly - take skin off the palm of you hand after a couple of magazines of sustained fire if you not careful - but hell- who can afford to waste that much ammo. By the way after 100 rounds of sustained fire (i.e. as fast a possible) you are pretty much deaf at least in one ear if not both. Try that in a bunker and you WILL be deaf for a while.
Unless you are in a secured area you have to carry ammunition and that stuff is heavy! Combat ammo loads for riflemen run at around 200 rounds for a heavy load (well in my army anyway). Four twenty round magazines and 100 - 150 loose rounds which for the purposes of the exercise could be preloaded as well. If you have a vehicle different story, as much as you need/can carry depending on the situation.
AK47 (7.62 NATO Standard Rimless Round Short Cartridge) ammunition weighs in at 1.6kg/100 rounds roughly. A empty AK47 weighs in at 4.3kg. Effective range - 800m
The 5.56×45mm NATO round in an AR-15 weighs in at roughly 1kg/100 rounds. An empty AR-15 weighs in at 2.3kg. Effective range - 550m
These two options the best is the AK47 (and its clones - such as the SKS or similar SLR rifles such as the old FN) it is an excellent kill weapon with excellent reliability because it is sooo damn simple. The Viet-Cong used AK47 scoped for sniper rifles up to 1.5km! And unlike the lighter rounds both these have lethal impact at distance.
In short - don’t panic, distance is your friend, pick you targets quickly and one shot one kill. Then you get 200 kills for 200 rounds in the best case senario.
Toebo23 on 03 Jul 2008 at 11:17 am #
an AK47 is worthless in a fight with the undead.
Platinum on 08 Jul 2008 at 11:18 am #
@Toebo23: Please explain. Making a blanket statement like that about one of the most dependable semi’s around without some type of info just isn’t right.
Platinum on 11 Jul 2008 at 4:01 pm #
Rufomagus opened his pie-hole with, “Full auto is for Americans, real soldiers use single aimed shots ……”
……
I had a long diatribe all typed out to include such stuff as, “Tell it to the Marines”, etc… and a few points about the info you posted.
Upon rereading what I typed, I’ve decided you’re just not worth it.
I will concur with, “…the AK47 … it is an excellent kill weapon with excellent reliability …” and “In short - don’t panic, distance is your friend….”
When at all possible, USMC snipers work as a team. The non-shooting member of the team (both will be snipers, only one shoots at a time) is responsible for, among other things, close quarters security. If you’re not alone, make sure you’re buddy is watching your back. If you are alone, don’t get so wrapped up in your target that you can’t keep an ear out for what’s shuffling up behind you.
thatguy on 15 Jul 2008 at 8:35 am #
the only way i can see full auto fire for Zs is if you have a big gun like a crew served
50cal this would only dismeber them not likly kill them it would be only for deffensive
pourpose mounted on the back of a pick up truck or a some aromerd APC it would
just slow them down so you could get away thats it but full auto on an Assault Rifle would
be a wastie single shot all the way and try to invest in a suppresor
3ID on 23 Jul 2008 at 9:06 am #
Rufomagus wow have you ever been to a combat zone well i have know days every infantry man has an ACOG on his rifle and speaking from experience we rifle man hate the burst and full auto function unless your ate the range in the rear and just have ammo to wast so when you say americans you go right for Jonny Rambo well thats not it so do some f— research be for you post
sincerely 3ID grunt
Scaryalbino on 03 Aug 2008 at 11:43 pm #
one shot one kill, Rufomagus not all Americans drain rounds while screaming “GET SOME” some of us have the gamekeeper mindset of “two bullets is a wast of brass”. fully auto has its place, a .50 cal on top of a cement barricade on a pivot would be nice. but i would say go with a semi auto or even bolt, lever or pump action. Remember its not a video game, no one is going to call you a noob or whatever if you dont have 50 dead Zombies under your belt. if a ZAC admin could check me on this: they will be slow moving, so if they are 50 yards away why use a bullet, just run. i can see how having a small caliber full auto would come in handy when you get stuck face to face with a wall of zombies, use a burst to slow them down and get out of there. this post is pretty rough, its 12:39 here. ill try to be more clear in the morning. But i figured if we wake up to the living dead i might as well have shed some logic on the situation.
Angryvikingman on 09 Aug 2008 at 4:46 am #
Personally, full auto is fun as all get out, but impractical when facing something that can only be killed with a head shot. I have owned several assault rifles. FN FAL, HK SR9TC, and an AR-15, and I have to say that sustained full auto fire was harder to control on the FN and AR. My HK was my favorite. Easy to keep on target because it was so heavy(14lbs unloaded), and because it had roller lock delayed blow back operation. If you have to use full auto at all, small caliber is the way to go. MP5 is the best option for this. At 25 yards, a trained operator, or someone who has shot the weapon enough to figure it out, can hold it on target to hit effectively. Not every shot will hit the head of the zombie you’re aiming at, but if you’re facing a horde, then you’re going to hit another one that’s close by. I prefer the one shot, one kill school of shooting myself. My weapon of choice as far as weight, availability of ammo, and options is my AR-15 fitted with my 22lr ceiner conversion. Switching from a scope to iron sights is as easy as adjusting the weapon down to see through the scope mounts. You can kill up close and rain death from afar. The thing to remember about 22lr ammo is that the effective kill range is only 100 yds/m. As far as the Effective range on other weapons listed above, I dont think that anyone can shoot an AK of any type accurately over more than 200 yards (with iron sights). The inconsistancies in the ammo, and rifles limits the range. The AK is designed to hose ammo, not for accurate selective fire. That’s why the russians designed the Dragunov for the squad designated marksman rifle. Tighter tolerances, a longer barrel, a scope, and the max range on it is still only about 800 meters with a military trained sniper, not some regular joe off the street that just got handed the rifle. Yes, the ammo’s max range is greater than that, but max range is how far the rifle can be shot when mounted perfectly still, with perfect conditions, a perfectly sighted scope, and a perfect operator.
Fullcircle on 14 Oct 2008 at 5:10 pm #
I completely agree with the statement that Full-auto is next to useless in most situation. However, I’d personally love to have a weapon that was capable of fully automatic fire, as long as it was changeable to semi-automatic. a 30-round clip in an assault rifle set to semi-automatic would be a dream.
Except for the fact that I’ve never so much as seen an Ak/m4/SCAR/FAMAS in person.
So, in picking a weapon, probably I’d have to
agree with Maingun on a .22 rifle.
No, it’s not capable of fully automatic fire.
But do I need it? No.
Dr Who on 19 Oct 2008 at 9:06 pm #
Back when I manned the Pig (M-60) in my squad. I was the only one in my unit who scored expert on the damn thing (lug one in the field and you’ll know why I said that) by TAPPING the trigger and firing a round or two off at a time. It took practice, but that’s how I scored so high. I can see only one time that rocking and rolling on auto would be usefull and that is if you screwed the pooch before and are now facing a horde with nowhere to go but through them. Aim low take their legs out and RUN. But at that point you are probably dead already. HMG’s are only good for fighting hordes of zeds, so IF found should be mounted on vehicles for scavenging missions. Keep yourself a 22 pistol and rifle (Wonderful post Maingun!) but keep yourself an assault rifle for backup. Use the 22’s whenever possible and only bringout the assault rifle for when it gets bad or for the range. As for what one to go with I would want the AK or a clone. Get one WITH the wood stock. Makes an effective club if the going gets REALLY rough. You can only do that once with an AR-15, but do it all day with the AK and still fire it afterwards.
sofa+pizza=happy on 01 Nov 2008 at 5:15 pm #
Full auto works well at surpressing zombies, simply go down a nd spread as many clips as you can through the legs of the zombies. Because lets face it it hard to work without feet. The zombies can’t follow you except by dragging them selves foward.