Silencing the Undead
Reading many of the posts on this site I have noticed that while many have chosen a firearm for their weapon of choice many have not considered that if they are forced to use it while fleeing the hordes of the undead that the report could blow whatever stealth advantage that they held.
Surprising only a few have brought up the subject of suppressors, more commonly, if incorrectly known as silencers.
The Bang- While they do not truly silence the report of the gun they do lessen the sound, a gun muffler is perhaps the best description. This could be an advantage to those combating the undead since the lesser noise would attract fewer zombies.
Another thing that should be noted about suppressors is that while for best performance you may need dedicated ammo. However, even with standard ammunation the suppressor may make it harder for zombies to locate where the shot originated giving you precious time to escape. Also the sound of a suppressed gunshot often lacks the distinctive sound of a gunshot, perhaps meaning it will be ignored, though this may be a false hope.
The Whisper- while a handheld weapon like the ax, club, or a trusty knife is undoubtedly the quietest way to dispatch a zombie having the ability to take a zed down at a distance and still have the advantage of stealth is a great thing. Plus one must consider that up close and personal there always lies the chance of a misstep that will lead to you become a shuffler yourself.
Comments (95)
3ID on 19 Aug 2008 at 6:02 pm #
Than you Mr. Kain the suppressors is one of my big with zombies every body that keeps putting down high powered for zombie defense yes 223 and 308 are great rifles but have you ever fired on in doors or out side with out ear plugs and please let me see one of you people say hold on Mr ZED HEAD while you put your ear plugs in to clear a room i will shoot you my self a suppressor help you keep hidden, by lowering the sound of the bullet and makes no mussel flash that why (SF like the so much ) and if you fire one to two round in a room your hearing is shot and that is one of your biggest zombie detection devises. but using knifes and that shit that’s for you hard core SOB’s i will stick to the 200 plus meter mark if i have to take it close i will use my tomahawk amen
Will on 19 Aug 2008 at 6:35 pm #
Grenades, etc. are nice because while they are by no means quiet, they don’t give away your location, just the location of where you threw it.
Dsurion on 19 Aug 2008 at 7:07 pm #
Interesting, but unless one puts a suppressor on a gun with sub-sonic bullet velocity (by which I mean pistols, subbies, and certain varieties of rifle) there will still be a significant amount of noise. Certainly changing the signature of the shots sound and nearly eliminating the flash will confuse other people, but will a zombie care?
They are hunting hunting humans after all, even if only in the loosest interpretation, and any noise would register as human activity. In the movies, all sorts of things can set a grave* of zombies after the hapless protagonist: falling objects, motors and engines, gunshots, nothing at all, something across the street, the neighbors annoying dog. In short, they are out to get you and masking your guns signature may not help.
However, every cloud has its silver lining…according to Wikipedia, attaching a suppressor significantly reduces a weapons recoil and in higher velocity weapons can increase accuracy by stripping the hot gasses away from the projectile, not to mention saving your hearing. That means one can fire more quickly and more accurately with a suppressor than without, provided they’re calm enough, which means more headshots and more dead zombies.
Taking all this into account, I would imagine a suppressor would be a valuable accessory _IF_ one is able to find one quickly and if their pack allows for the extra weight, but not having one is certainly nothing to agonize over. As they say, it isn’t the gun that makes the shot, it’s the marksman.
*grave, -noun: a group of zombies. See: gaggle, pod. =)
Avakar on 19 Aug 2008 at 9:31 pm #
The problem with silencers or mufflers is that they are hard to come by, why you ask? They are illegal, so unless you are an assassin or work for the mafia, you’re out of luck for a good one. They can also (if poorly manufactured) damage your gun, now you have a whole other batch of issues. Yes, I will admit that I carry, 1 1911 and a .12 shotgun but those are for worst case scenarios. I prefer to use my well broken-in baseball bat and sword. A utility knife is my back up. Stealth is the best policy. It will keep you alive longer than actively shooting a gun which is as good as ringing a dinner bell saying “Here I am! Come and munch on me! I taste awesome with ketchup!”
Brian on 20 Aug 2008 at 12:40 am #
I will take a sharp machete and a rope ladder. In almost any situation, but particularly in big cities where i live at current. A blade is quiet and never needs reloading, a rope ladder can take you at least one flight away from serious conflict until interest dies down.
If you disagree then i will gladly behead you when your one of “them”
Donjonjon on 20 Aug 2008 at 4:00 am #
If you want stealth & distance, might I advise you sirs to consider bows and crossbows? True it takes a bit of training, but with all the different types of arrows you’ll find what you need: crescent shaped to cut limbs (or head if you’re skilled), hollow head you can fill with acid. Plus you can attach all sorts of things to it: hooks and ropes to reach high places, if necessary TNT or grenades, which will disorient your foe as regards your current position.
Bows can kick Z-ass as well as a .223 but still keep it quiet… SHhh
Steve on 20 Aug 2008 at 9:40 am #
A silenced weapon is clearly an advantage over an unsupressed one in all circumstances where you might need it to defend yourself against a zombie, except the snuck up on while sleeping scenario where the overall length of the gun and suppressor might slow down your beading time.
You’d have to be insane to take on a big group of zombies at once, instead, you’re much more likely to try to avoid large groups of zombies and only take solitary shots at zombies which are standing around on their own or in very small groups. You’re aiming to survive, not go on Unreal Tournament killing sprees.
It doesn’t matter if the zombie beside the one you shot hears it since you shouldn’t be firing into big groups in the first place so you’ll be able to follow up with a second shot reasonably quickly and continue on safely. However, the fewer zombies who hear the gunshot echo around the country or city the better.
Kasper on 20 Aug 2008 at 12:34 pm #
It’s possible to improvise silencers from household materials. As I might be one to go on an airplane some day, I won’t provide links, but the recipees can be found online.These are not quite as efficient as the professional gear, but can be quickly adapted to any gun YOU might happen to have.
Donjonjon suggests bows/xbows… While definitely more quiet, what about the price?
It’s relatively expensive to get a hold of either, and you’ll have a harder time finding ammo in a crisis. Ever tried making an arrow yourself? There’s a reason fletcher was a full-time job. If you must, instead of a “real” bow/xbow, get a stone-launching one. Even better, learn to use a sling. It can be worn around your head, lowering encumbrance significantly, and can launch anything fist-sized you pick up along the way. If you’ve ever been hit by a thrown rock, you’ll know what I’m getting at. The sling gives even more force to this low-maintenace weapon.
In my opinion, the risk of owning an illegal weapon is not sufficiently compensated by the increase in security, when zeds see other zeds reacting to something, they flock like vultures, eliminating the gain of being unheard by the furthest ones.
3ID on 20 Aug 2008 at 6:53 pm #
Avakar a suppressors is not illegal in the US i can go to my local class III gun store and by one for 1000 that includes the ATF stamp and that is just for my AR i could get all kinds ones for .22 9mm 45 and for shits and giggles a Barrett 50 cal so they are not illegal unless you live in some of those gun hatting state like CAL then i suggest you move ASAP
Kornkob on 20 Aug 2008 at 9:02 pm #
It’s notable that suppression does come with costs. It slows the round and creates some turbulence. Accuracy and stoppign power are thuis negatively impacted.
After all, if suppression didn’t come with a cost, there would be far more soldiers in Iraq running with suppressed weapons.
Goldfish on 20 Aug 2008 at 9:35 pm #
The problem with the supressor is one of reality versus fiction. Yes, a supressor is going to do wonders for keeping you from being detected by, say, humans. But, assuming we’re going with the Max Brooks zombie you’ll need to remember that zombies are dependant on all senses equally. This means that something just low enough for a living, breathing, non cannibalistic human won’t hear could be heard by a Zed. I’m going to echo the statements of Avakar here first to reiterate that supressors are insanely illegal. Yeah, you can manufacture a temporary one or two shot supressor by firing through a potato or wrapping your rifle in old blankets, or even make a quick fix by drilling holes in the barrel of your weapon (thereby reducing the muzzle velocity, but the explosion of the cap is dispersed more evenly and quiets the shot down a bit), but why take the risk? If you’re preparing before hand and, god forbid, you’re found to have weapons like this you’ll go to jail. No ifs ands or “but I’m ready for the zombies”. Your best bet is, as has been mentioned before, the crossbow. You don’t get the fire rate of a firearm but you do get a quiet, effecient piece of equipment. Remember folks, it’s not how much brass you throw downrange, it’s how much you hit with it, so if you play it safe and smart you can clear a hole in a matter of time. The goal isn’t outright murder of the shamblers, it’s surviving.
Avakar on 20 Aug 2008 at 10:45 pm #
OK, when I am called out on my statements I check my validity, to be wrong is as good as being dead. I researched the legality of “silencers” and acquiring one. Yes, 3ID you are right, silencers ARE in fact legal, BUT! They are not as easily acquired as you are implying. You can’t just waltz into a gun store and say “Hello shop keep! I want you to sell me a silencer.”
1st, a silencer is considered a class 2 weapon the dealer must have a class 3 license in order to sell you one, meaning that they have to pay more taxes annually than your normal dealer. Look at our present economy and tell me you will be able to readily find a store paying out that much in taxes and still be open for business. I live in a military town and there is not 1 legal store that has a class 3 license.
2nd, the sale MUST be approved in advance by the ATF which takes 4-5 weeks alone.
3rd, the store cannot have them on location. You have to order them through the dealer. Even then you will usually have to pay an amount in advance, this is not including cost of the modifications required for a gun to even be compatible with a silencer and you still have the remaining cost of the silencer itself. In the end you could be paying out 3X the cost of the gun itself.
I don’t know about you but I don’t have $5,000 lying around to throw away on an item that will reduce the performance on an already expensive gun. That money would best be invested in other items and resources that could further assist me with surviving. Besides overly investing in guns won’t help you when you run out of ammo, and I believe you’ll have below mild success with pistol whipping a zed to death….. At least the silencer will give you a little more length and leverage, good luck with that. ^_^
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 20 Aug 2008 at 11:11 pm #
My, my isn’t this going to get bloody. Firstly, Suppressors are NOT illegal. I’ll qualify this because I can go down to my local class three dealer and place my hands on one, 3ID will back me up on this, granted the paper work may take a while , now in some places, not where I live, they may be illegal, however in some places they aren’t even taxed. Hell in some places you don’t even need a license to buy them, these places unfortunately are not in the US. Secondly, while they do slow the round they do not degrade accuracy, at least not within your average combat range, 200 meters. That said the down side is that they do tend to muck the weapon up quicker and can put greater stress on the weapon’s mechanism, as well as heating it up quicker, as well as the suppressor heating up quite quickly, that is why our military doesn’t standard issue them. Nonetheless they are out there, in a greater quantity than you think, but why use them when you’re patrolling and not ambushing?
Oh and drilling holes in the barrel is called porting and isn’t going to do a damn thing to quiet the shot, in fact it will make it much louder:)
As for noise reduction, I know from first hand that firing one from a tree line will make the crack far from anything that can be called a gunshot. In the woods? Good luck locating where the shot came from, and even if a zombie is close enough to locate where the shot came from in that area I don’t plan on sticking around for him to arrive. It has been stated time and time again that you are trying to survive, I am not trying to get into a fire fight with the bastards. But if I must take one, two, or five down, I want to be able to do so as quietly and quickly as possible and with the least threat to myself. Translation, while I am able to take a threat down at close range, I would much rather take that threat down outside of arms reach. At the risk of being clichéd, only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight.
While I will not argue with Kasper’s idea of using a sling I do not find the bow and arrow or the crossbow to be that appealing. They are not perfectly silent, especially any high powered crossbow. Trying locking and loading a 180-200 pound crossbow several times a minute and see how long you last. 3ID will surely agree with me that pulling a trigger is much easier. Also bolts for a crossbow, or arrows for a bow are much heavier than rounds for most any rifle, especially my .223s, and while you may say that retrieving the bolts or arrows is possible, eventually you will lose them or they will become damaged beyond repair, and again I side with Kasper on the side that making arrows is a pain, especially fletching one, which is a dying, if not lost art. You would be much better with a spear in that regard.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
3ID on 21 Aug 2008 at 9:27 am #
Kornkob After all, if suppression didn’t come with a cost, there would be far more soldiers in Iraq running with suppressed weapons.
Well when i was in ira
3ID on 21 Aug 2008 at 9:35 am #
Stupid Computer any way when i was in i Iraq our scout and sniper platoons carried suppressors i am in the Infantry we don’t use them because we like being very load and scary it demoralize the enemy when you hear a 50 cal or 25 mike mike going of it gives you a little boost because you another Towel Head SOB just got sent to paradise and if we need to use suppressors trust me the infantry would be the first to get them beside from the SOF guys
Avakar on 21 Aug 2008 at 10:51 am #
Kain, there is no bad blood, and none shall be shed (accept for zed). Both you and 3ID are right about suppressors being legal, but i just don’t see it being a cost effective option. Yes, it has sound application at a distance, but if it gets up close and personal, don’t bother with it. As for arrow and bolts, i wouldn’t wish the task of assembling them on my worst enemy, if you had to assemble them in the field, the long stream of loud obscenities you would spout would give your location away to zombies miles away.
Goldfish on 21 Aug 2008 at 5:17 pm #
Well, I’m going to concede defeat on the legality of the supressors, but I still echo Avakar on cost effectiveness. Some of us are preparing on a budget, after all. I don’t know that I’d go with a silencer, still, but that’s because of my initial argument of a zombie being dependant on all senses equally (Ala Max Brooks). It makes sense that a zombie would not be as dependant on sight after the human mind has been rewired by the virus/bacterium/whichever, rendering our enemy a much more dangerous predator. The sound generated by a supressed weapon may be quiet enough not to attract a human, but undead cannibals may just be able to hear it. The supressor, in that effect, becomes something of a wild card. Until it was field tested I’d be a little apprehensive to use one in a combat situation. Moving on, I’ve never had to assemble a crossbow, so I won’t argue with Avakar’s point about it being a factory for foul language and shrieks of rage. What I will point out, however, is that we will all, always, have our standbys that will, most likely, wind up being out saving grace in the end anyway. Be it bat, katana, longsword, tire iron, large rock, brick, younger sibling, we are going to be saved by our melee weapons. It’s the quietest you can get, and as long as you play it smart you’ll not have to wind up wading through a hundred thousand stenches with a crowbar and the hope of survival.
instruisto on 22 Aug 2008 at 6:40 pm #
Mace, flail, or baseball bat. Nuff said.
Miguel Sanchez on 25 Aug 2008 at 3:46 pm #
but the problem w/ suppressors is that you give up power and accuracy..
Although stealth does rank higher than both…
Miguel Sanchez on 25 Aug 2008 at 3:48 pm #
especially using 9mm or smaller rounds the power that is lost may sometimes barely penetrate the human skull…
Angryvikingman on 26 Aug 2008 at 5:55 pm #
I have an AR-15 with a ceiner 22lr conversion kit. I also own a walther p22. It also shoots 22lr. I have a Tac 65 supressor that I can use on both weapons. It sounds like someone snapping their fingers beside your ear when it is fired if its even that loud. It is very cost effective. I only paid $259 for it at my local gun store http://www.ontargettn.com, on any class 2 or class 3 item, there is a $200 tax stamp, and I had to pay $10 to the local sherrif’s dept. for a background check. So in total, I paid about $470 for it. It is not something that people cant afford. I mean shit, I’ve spent more than that in a strip club in one night.
Angryvikingman on 26 Aug 2008 at 5:55 pm #
crap, I put a comma in the link.. http://www.ontargettn.com
Jesse Gilbert on 27 Aug 2008 at 12:37 am #
Speaking of legality, where is everyone from? Not looking for a home address, just wondering what state/province/country everyone is from?
3ID on 27 Aug 2008 at 2:43 pm #
GA Good old FT Stewart “Rock Of the Marne”
Miguel Sanchez they do not give up accuracy maybe a little bit of power but a 9mm 45 or 223 with a suppressor will still gut through a human skull (rag-head) like a hot knife though butter let alone an undead decomposing skull
Goldfish on 28 Aug 2008 at 7:45 pm #
I’m living in Mid Tennesse right now to answer your question JG. And, in response to AngryViking, I’m not sure waht you do for a living, but for me $470 is alot of money, especially when spending it on firearms and/or strippers. I still have to pay rent and bills and whatnot every month.
Angryvikingman on 28 Aug 2008 at 10:12 pm #
I have rent and bills too, I just used my government stimulus check for the supressor. My wife wasnt happy. BTW I also live in Middle TN. Murfreesboro to be exact, less than a mile from MTSU.
Death or Glory on 29 Aug 2008 at 3:41 pm #
http://www.impactguns.com/store/silencer_barrels.html
Kasper on 31 Aug 2008 at 8:55 am #
From Denmark, hence my focus on non-firearm ranged weaponry. No way a college student here could secure a weapons license for a non-heirloom, functional gun, and on my budget the hunting license required to otherwise justify the weapons license might be out of range too.
By the way, the sling is described well on wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sling_%28weapon%29
Angryvikingman on 31 Aug 2008 at 9:49 am #
Move to switzerland or Norway. You can have guns there.
Blitz Haigen on 02 Sep 2008 at 9:16 am #
Another interesting thought would be to try and find subsonic rounds. I doubt it would be in any way easy to find them, they just so happen to be the favored ammunititon of assassins. The name says it all, the reason a gunshot is slo loud is because of the sonic boom vreated by the bullet travelling faster than sound. Subsonic rounds travel slower than the speed of sound, reducing the report of the shot dramatically. However, this cuts back hard from the weapon’s range and some of it’s penetrating power. As long as you were fighting the average civillian zombie, however, subsonic rounds would probably do the trick. Add a suppressor to your weapon and you may get near silence, never alerting your undead targets that anything was ever alive to make noise. I’d try it.
Angryvikingman on 02 Sep 2008 at 4:19 pm #
Subsonic rounds dont really make that much of a difference. On a .308, it makes a small difference, but as far as 22lr goes, mine already sounds almost like a pellet rifle, and I use high velocity hollow point rounds. Its not really hard to find them though. You can get just about anything you want from http://www.cheaperthandirt.com or any other online ammo dealer. Including armor piercing and armor piercing incendiary rounds.
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 02 Sep 2008 at 7:16 pm #
Subsonic ammo is less prevalent than its supersonic counterpart, but a suppressor can use either, though the later is less effective. That said I’ve got several thousand rounds of subsonic ammo for my .22lr. They require a longer barrel on a pistol or a rifle to cycle but they make very little report, and out to fifty meters I would feel very confident with them. Besides ball amoo for a .45 is subsonic to start with, less you wish to use +p loads which may be over kill. As for price 500 dollars isn’t too bad for a surpressor, no worse than what they seem to want for baseball bats these days.
As for the sling, unless you have lots of experience with it I wouldn’t pick one up. From what I heard and read about them the learning curve can be quite harsh, especially to get good enough to hit a man sized target, let alone a grapefruit, which is the brain. That said Kasper if you are good with one go to it.
On a similar note, like the sling the flail can have a steep learning curve, and be much less forgiving. The sling you miss judge or screw up you miss, the flail you screw up you brain yourself. As for the base ball bat I don’t trust them to hold up in the long run, they are only good for so many strikes before bending or breaking, test one on a tree and see. Oh and Instruisto you seem to be under the mistaken belief that those like me and 3ID are going in guns alone, we will have other weapons, knives, tomahawks, and other instruments of death, the guns are just much simpler. I, myself, will be carrying a cut down bo staff, a more elegant form of you baseball bat, though longer and more cumbersome that the bat in close quarters it gives better striking force, trust me when I say I can split a skull with it. And unlike the bat it doubles as a walking staff, quite handy if you must go through the woods or fields.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
Goldfish on 02 Sep 2008 at 9:25 pm #
Angryvikingman, you’re from Murfressboro? Not terribly far from me in Clarksville. As for the bat, I agree, it’s not as reliable in the long run as, say, a six foot crowbar (can’t remember the technical name of that bad little toy). I think people are seeing me as not going in with any guns, which is not true. I’d swear by a glock in a situation like this, it’s simply a matter of getting the weapons secured (I am perpetually broke). Maybe, and I’m going on a limb here, a surpressor would be a great item for one or two members of your group to carry. If you’re anything like me you have a cadre of people in your local area that are going to recognize the threat immediately in the event of a massive outbreak, and will be right along side of you. That way you cut spending a bit and have one member designated as the “L33t Snipzor lawlz” with the suppresor and everyone else acting as support. Maybe that could be a topic for the future “In the event of an outbreak, you and your fellow survivors will all have roles to play, and what will yours be”.
For all his bluster, it is the sad province of Man that he cannot choose his triumph. He can only choose how he will stand when the call of destiny comes.
-Mohinder Suresh
Dave on 03 Sep 2008 at 3:22 pm #
This is another thread that has brought up a consideration that frequently applies but I’ve rarely seen addressed. The expense and legal requirements simply define whether or not something is suitable to acquire in preparation. After an outbreak, it’s whether it is worth the risk going somewhere to ’steal’ one.
Kasper on 05 Sep 2008 at 4:46 pm #
Agreed Kain, practicing slinging should be done well in advance of the zompocalyse, or not at all. A slingshot perhaps? Easily rigged up, fairly easy to aim and operate. Unlikely to directly backfire too. Still, the elastics needed to get optimal propelling is not the kind you find around your burger-wrap, and repeated use could easily wear down a slingshot constructed from non-optimal materials.
Angryvikingman, when I say I can’t afford a hunting license, I take it to be self-evident that I can’t afford to move hundreds of miles away, give up my citizen-ship, and then buy a rifle in my new location. Keep it realistic.
With it’s many fjords and mountains, Norway might be a possible go-to when my food runs out.
Angryvikingman on 06 Sep 2008 at 9:38 am #
If I happen to be one of the first people to recognize the Zombiepocalypse for what it is, the first thing that I’m going to do is break into my local class 3 gun dealer and steal a TON of weapons and ammo. And supressors. Whoever gets in my way gets fragged, human and zombie alike.
Goldfish on 07 Sep 2008 at 6:20 pm #
Angryvikingman, though your level of Huah is admirable, you have to remember that most people aren’t going to be so apt to fly into a murderous, self preserving killing spree. In the event of a Class 4 World end Scenario Zombacolypse, it’s going to be Humanity’s ability to unite and work together that will ultimately save that. So, be careful who you’re going about fragging during the event. Getting crazy like that is dangerous to yourself and certainly dangerous to others and will only create a larger scale riot.
For all his bluster, it is the sad province of Man that he cannot choose his triumph. He can only choose how he will stand when the call of destiny comes.
-Mohinder Suresh
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 07 Sep 2008 at 8:28 pm #
Going gung-ho has a time and place, and there will be times where the best resort is going to be to take the fight to the enemy. That said there is also a time where a tactical retreat is best advised. Arming yourself as best you can is important and in a world ending outbreak you’ll likely see events similar to that of Katrina, people stealing and looting high priced good that do them no good. People like Angryvikingman might just be the people who live to fight the longest.
That said I also see that I am no longer the only person with a signature.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
Goldfish on 08 Sep 2008 at 7:31 pm #
Heh, yeah I decided to jump on the signature bandwagon while it was still fresh and new. As for the gung ho looting and pillaging plan, I have several concerns in regards to that, not the least of which is America’s recent love of declaring Marshall Law during a crisis. Look at the events of Katrina compared to Hurrican Gustav: Katrina resulted in poor response and poorer protection of people and goods, whereas during Gustav if you were found to be looting you went to prison, straight to prison, do not pass go, do not collect $200. In an event like this you can expect an even stronger response from local authorities as well as the National Guard. They may not know what’s going on until it’s too late, and when you go after those firearms they could shoot you in the street. The first hours of any outbreak are the most dangerous, not only because of the mass panic and ensuing riot, but the poor preparation of the locals. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m locking the door and shutting off the lights until I can’t smell smoke quite as bad.
For all his bluster, it is the sad province of Man that he cannot choose his triumph. He can only choose how he will stand when the call of destiny comes.
-Mohinder Suresh
sean on 08 Sep 2008 at 8:53 pm #
silencers are a good idea but they are hard to manufacture/obtain even if they are’nt banned in your country
but hey i don’t care i own a crossbow and i would use that when the dead rise
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 09 Sep 2008 at 12:00 am #
Goldfish you have a point about Katrina and Gustav, but you also misinterpret my words. I didn’t say to charge the horde when you first see them, I said that there may, and likely will come a time and place where one must fight tooth and nail for survival. As for Katrina and Gustav, the show of force with Gustav was because they didn’t show any during Katrina, and Gustav never made the impact that Katrina did, if it had then you would have seen the same scenario. Why because there would have been chaos and they would have likely not have been able to move the looters out of the city, think of the problems they had with Katrina, another Katrina same problems, just fewer people around(we thinned the herd a little the first time, that and they could have solved a few problems with idiots taking potshots at helos in Katrina by bring in a Apache or Cobra and turning the shooter into so much ground meat. But, that’s my opinion.) A massive zombie outbreak you’ll have the same thing happening, while I do agree with the disturbing trend of America becoming more and more willing to give up rights for false security, the government is slow to react and short of calling in the special forces or a quick reaction team, most of which are likely overseas, the response is going to be slow, and that’s not even taking in to the mess and legalities of doing so would bring. Also, if the outbreak is severe enough then the governments screwed, the department of homeland security says you should have two months of food in your home in case of emergency, this isn’t because they don’t want you to starve but because they figure that if the government does not regain control within two months they’re not going to. And may God save us if FEMA takes control of the government. Why? It’s not because of how they handled Katrina, it’s that while they have a plan on how to take control of the government during a national emergency they have never said how they are to reestablish the government. This shit is more scary than the zed heads.
Sweet dreams.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
Avakar on 09 Sep 2008 at 11:45 pm #
Kain, i couldn’t have put it better. If FEMA took control, we would be S.O.L. and would be better off on our own. I have more faith in my ability to kill zeds and defend myself and family then the government to do so. Knowing our government they would probably try to negotiate with the zeds first, then when that doesn’t work they will try to perform tests on them. Next they would hold a committee on the true nature of the enemy. Then once they finish their rounds of political circle jerk, they would declare war on the at home and already out of control munching on the mass public enemy. Long before then i and my fellow compatriots (ie: the people of ZAC) would have long before then commenced negotiations between them and our baseball bats, guns and weapons of brain bashing goodness. We would have long begun our fight for survival before our government comes to our “rescue”. Now some of you may be thinking “Hey Avakar must be anti-government!”, no, I’m all for government, I’m just anti-idiocy….. and lately our fine political establishment has been batting “0″. Lets face it comrades, When the zeds come we can only count on ourselves.
“Its kinda scary knowing when one part of you falls asleep, another wakes up.” – unknown
Peepshow on 10 Sep 2008 at 4:07 pm #
Living in Scotland I only have access to stealth/melee wepons so wouldn’t really have a choice. Anything that dosn’t make a loud noise when it hits somthing would do, like a brick, or really big stone. Garden tools make that “dung” noise while wood has the “thunk” noise that would give you away. I totally agree with Avakar, self protection over goverment protection anyday. However our goverment would react quicker to Zack I think. Negating the need for self protection. We have less of this “How will this affect my popularity with the people” shite or whatever it is those twats think. We deal with it then move on. To finish I like to direct you to a brilliant discussion that took place on the World War Z film IMDb boards about the chance there was that an outbreak could gain the momentum to actually bring the bad, or good depending on who you are, times.
“Don’t be reckless with your most precious asset – life”
Goldfish on 10 Sep 2008 at 7:48 pm #
Kain, I think my point has been misinterpereted as well. I understand as much as anyone that the fight will need to be taken to the Zacks at one point or another. What I was warning against was Viking’s statement of knocking over a gun store as soon as he recognizes the threat, killing both undead and human alike. That behavior and mindset is dangerous, and counter productive. Will there come a time when you may have to slay another living being during a Class 4 catastrophe? Probably, but that does not mean indiscriminate killing of any and all humans that simply “get in your way”. Perhaps hurricanes are the wrong kind of catastrophe to compare it to. Look at the LA riots back in the 90’s versus response now to riots and/or demonstrations. That is, most likely, what the situations will be recognized as first by local law enforcement agencies and media organizations. Nowadays when there is any kind of massive demonstration or riot the police are out and in force immediately. It’ll be chaotic, they’ll have their bean bag guns and mace cannisters that will, honestly, do nothing, and add to the mayhem. During this time frame it’ll be too dangerous to leave your home, let alone go bounding about trying to raid a weapons dealer. That is a one way ticket either to the relative safety of a holding cell, which may or may not have infected inside, a hospital that will undoubtedly be filled with infected, or to a body bag. I agree that, at least in the States, government response and local police response will be uninformed and underprepared. This will lead, frankly, to an even more dangerous situation and alot of bitten police officers and paramedics. I suppose my overall point is we don’t need to start killing each other off as soon as the biting starts. This is going to be the time frame with the stupid are going to be busy getting themselves killed, the police are going to be dying and killing, and anarchy will reign supreme.
3ID on 10 Sep 2008 at 9:05 pm #
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN I have to tell a little some thing about our government I.E my boss in the 3rd Infantry Division we are making a special response team for disasters and terrorist attacks so if civil unrest did start happening on a massive scale the would look to us the 3rd Infantry Division AKA the BUTCHERS OF BAGHDAD yes so instead of FEMA vans and red cross trucks you would see Bradley,Strykers, and maybe occasional M1A1 main battle tank also your rare but alwasy presant BW(Black Water) guys so looters be warned you steel a SAMSUNG you get a 25 mike mike up your ass so Angryvikingman if you do go down to your local gun dealer and take much need guns and ammo dont let one of our happy trigger finger 22 year old maning a thermal imaging 25mm bushmaster stop you that bullet is only twice the size of a normal mans dick our be smart and stock up on ammo and food until we get over run or we set up deffensive areas and just say F this and start doing our own thing because trust me i wont go any were with these guys i will steel a M-1117 (look it up) and head home were i hope my family awaits i at least know KAIN could use the company but thats all i have to say this is coming from some one that does not go to a liberal arts collage (JK) and works for the the MAN, THE BIG CHEESE, or THE GOVERNMENT
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 11 Sep 2008 at 12:33 am #
Ah yes, I do in fact know 3ID and live not too far from fort Stewy so if anyone was wondering of my basic whereabouts. You’re not going to get more specific than that because of my generous helping of paranoia. Though, 3ID, I really didn’t need to know that the Butchers of Bagdad are going to be working our next major disaster, then again with the elections on the horizon it could get quite sporting for you guys.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
Kasper on 20 Sep 2008 at 12:23 pm #
Punctuation, please, 3ID, apart from that good to know that there’s a plan available to handle… Non-standard situations. Even if it’s not close enough to benefit me.
An interesting point was brought up about crowd-control often using tear-gas/mace. Would this work against zeds? Some sources believe their olfactory abilities to be somewhat enhanced, and given that these weapons are relatively silent, they might be able to help. Robbing a zed of a few senses would turn the scene into something like a sober-vs-very-drunk fight, and if the zeds aren’t screaming too loudly…
As for the collapse of society, it’s hard to predict until it’s been observed a few times. What happens if the military tries to enforce quarantines on the cities hit? It’s standard response in most countries with a coherent epidemic plan, which is likely what the zombies will be treated in accordance with. These plans enable a
variety of health personnel to over-rule local administration, hoefully disabling the bureacratic factor locally.
On the downside, this would concentrate the people available to the zeds, and with their rather basic mental capacity, they might stay in town waiting for the locals to come out, rather than storm a line of armed men too far away to be seen.
3ID on 22 Sep 2008 at 8:41 pm #
personally i wouldn’t care to use that stuff on zombies even if it did have an effect it would also limit you abilities as well. Kasper i don’t know what you do for a living or any thing unless your a cop then sorry in advance but i have been hit with that tear gas and it sucks even if you do have proper gear on you can hardly fight effectively try to shot a zed will your looking through a gas mask breathing hard lens are getting foggy and every piece of exposed skin is burring personal i would not even bother with chem agent its going to hurt you probably more then the zeds
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 23 Sep 2008 at 10:31 pm #
Mace and tear gas work on the principle of pain, zeds don’t feel pain so it would be next to useless. Though carrying mace does have one use, run out of hot sauce you can use it to spice up the dish your eating. Though make sure the stuff it liquid and not the semi solid stuff, that crap is chewy as hell and ruins chilli.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
ManicXellos on 26 Sep 2008 at 8:20 pm #
If you are looking for some kind of area effect weapon, you can try dragon breath shotgun rounds, can be pretty nasty, but not a one shot one kill technique. Still a handgun calibrated to shoot shotgun rounds, with these shots would give the effect of a personal flame thrower.
If you are interested in burning some zombies thermite in a delivery system like a hollow point round would doom any zombie it hit. This would make body shots lethal as the thermite would eat away the lower torso in fire. Thermite is cheap also, 1 part rust, 1 part aluminum in powder form.
I would rank both methods up there on the visibility rating though.
A smaller size round is going to be a lot quieter, and easier to acquire monetarily, and legally, and ammo will also weight less which translates to more rounds. If you can fire a gun well it would be easy to hit a target at 100 yards with a .22 and penetrate the skull. Larger rounds don’t mean much if all you have to do is hit the brain. Where larger rounds might be useful is in knocking back a target.
One thing to keep in mind about silencers though. They are only good for so many rounds. They will wear out after a less the reasonable shots, especially on larger round weapons. This means more then one would be needed if your plan has you in contact with many zombies.
You can purchase silencers in the following states:
AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY
Class 3 dealers and Class 2 manufacturers in: CA, IA, KS, MA, MO, and MI.
Class 3 in MI is ~$900 annually, not sure if this is different between states, but it also allows you to own some fully automatic weapons.
If you have the money to be tricking out an ultimate weapon, infrared goggles and an infrared laser for the gun would allow for a precision shot, without a zombie being able to see the light, additionally you would be able to see in the dark. An infrared flashlight would also be recommended, as zombies would also fail to see this.
3ID on 27 Sep 2008 at 6:50 pm #
ManicXellos the suppressors of now days they are life time guarantied they will last for ever unless you do something stupid to them
SDS on 30 Sep 2008 at 1:34 pm #
This would be the ultimate in perfect to separate some zombie heads from their bodies…
http://www.americantomahawk.com/products/comanche.htm
Besides being fun , it’s fast, large cutting edge, long reach, never runs out of ammo.
3ID on 30 Sep 2008 at 6:19 pm #
SDS i have the CQC-T and it is right on my molle vest
jacob on 01 Oct 2008 at 5:38 pm #
silencers also take velocity and accuracy from every bullet fired and while you dont need all that punch depending on what you are shooting chances are not every shot you take will be a head shot you still might need that extra punch to knock down the zombie
Angryvikingman on 10 Oct 2008 at 8:22 pm #
Silencers DO NOT reduce velocity OR accuracy. They simply supress the gasses from making the supersonic “crack” as the bullet leaves the end of the gun. The only silencer that becomes less effective after use is one for 22lr. The super heated lead near the back of the bullet mists into the baffels and needs to be cleaned periodically. A wire brush and some gas will remove the accumulated lead, then a quick bath in soapy water and immeadiate toweling off will keep your 22lr silencer in PERFECT working order, assuming that you got a suppressor that can be dissassembled. Other caliber supressors do not deteriorate after use because the lead bullet is encased in a copper jacket. Also, a note on subsonic ammunition: While sub sonic ammo is slower moving than standard velocity ammo, they usually have a heavier projectile. Giving it more punch. Standard velocity rounds can be used in a supressor. They aren’t “silenced” as much, but they are a LOT more quiet than normal. My supressor sounds like a CO2 pistol when being fired with standard velocity ammo. It is deathly silent with a good subsonic round.
Standard velocity: 1200+ feet per second
Subsonic ammo: 500-1000 fps.
Depending on what type of weapon you have, the ammo you are shooting, and the size of your supressor, you can have a whisper quiet firearm. Do some real research before commenting on things that you’ve only seen in movies and heard things about from other people.
At all who have commented negatively on my earlier comments:
You want people like me. My class 3 dealer knows me by name and probably would let me walk out with whatever I wanted in case of an emergency of that magnitude and not really have to “knock” him over. If the shit hit the fan at night and the gun store was closed, then I’m knocking in the door and taking what I want. My home town is not heavily populated, and I wouldnt have to wade through hordes of people to get to the gun store, or likely kill anyone on the way there. Barret firearms is also close to my house. A trip there would would also be on my list. I doubt there would be anyone there in a time of crisis like that. I’m not going to “LOOT” unecessary items, I’m taking survival gear. I guarantee that I will have everything I need before any armed forces detachments show up as well. BTW, Infra red doesnt work so well on corpses as they are colder than room temperature. So if you see someone looting an electronics express, shoot a 25mm up their ass for me. I’ll be in the woods, or at the very least a secluded location. Surviving.
Angryvikingman on 10 Oct 2008 at 8:23 pm #
Of course I was speaking about IR military targeting equipment. Civilian cameras and such work much better, but have a limited range.
3ID on 10 Oct 2008 at 9:33 pm #
Angryvikingman I have a feeling deep down that you have never been inside a bradly or any other militarty vehicle. The ones with IR targeting equipment is not like the movies it doesnt not look like heat vision on a video game either or some shit like that. You can tell the difrence between inanimate objects you can pick out alot of different things but when it comes down to it there is not going to be target aquisicion they are just goin to shoot any thing that moves.
Gurilla on 15 Oct 2008 at 2:04 am #
If your going for quiet than i would say a good crossbow is in order. It can hit targets 50 yards away with nothing but a slight twang.
Dreamornaut on 17 Oct 2008 at 3:57 am #
Huh, I wonder. Would a zombie respond to the report of a rifle as a sign of prey in a area? It’s a good question that I don’t believe has really been answered adiquatly. After all, if a zombie would chase after the report of a rifle or pistol, what do the zed do when they here thunder? If they can tell the difference, it would mean they seem to be smarter then believed, but that is doubtful so I’d say it’s most likely something else that gives humans away aside from the report.
Either way a supressor is a good option. If anything to save your hearing when fired indoors. The availability of suppressors is extremely limited, but if you have to they aren’t that difficult to machine yourself if you can gain access to the right equipment. Granted all suppressors have a definite ‘lifetime’ and homemade ones will only be good for around 20-100 rounds or so depending on the materials you have available. Though considering that all suppressors have a limited usefulness, even if you can get hold of pro-made models you will eventually have to make your own at some point.
If I recall, the newer suppressors on the market boast a 20,000 rounds fired before half effectiveness, though I think they actually field test at less then that. Though it’s been a few years since I’ve kept up on stuff like this so I’d actually expect it to be around 200,000 rounds these days. Regardless, in the long term you would want to know how to make these yourself, and the tools necessary should be part of your eventual fortress compound being the primary reason you would want a gas generator. Having a fully functioning machine shop will crucial to being on top of things when people start retaking the countryside. At least IMHO.
Necrowerx on 17 Oct 2008 at 1:59 pm #
Suppressors are out of the question for me, being in NJ. So is moving. I have a state job and a family, and a mortgage. Lastly, I just can’t afford it. If the Zombapocalypse hits though, well then I’ll get my suppressor the hard way maybe, I guess.
I think suppressors might be advantageous, but only in very certain circumstances.
Some of you have stated that the muffled or altered “pop” would still be enough to attract nearby Zeds; of course no one knows for sure, but there’s another thing to consider too – if Zeds are that darn sensitive to sound, then they’ll also be able to hear the sound of the body thump when it hits the ground. Or worse, fall into a bunch of crates or barrels, or flip over a chair or onto a table, or fall against a chainlink fence, or through a window, making a hell of a racket. Point is, they’re not going to go down in total silence regardless. So in those instances, the silencer may not be much good anyway, even if the shot was 100% suppressed, which we all know is impossible anyway.
Obviously, in this scenario, even a melee weapon is no “protection” from alerting the nearby Z horde. Finally, there’s the problem of scent; they’re going to sniff you out anyway. And vice-versa. I never buy it in the movies when a zombie comes out of nowhere to bite someone unexpectedly – like you wouldn’t smell that rotting thing coming from 20 ft away??
Angryvikingman on 17 Oct 2008 at 8:50 pm #
@3ID
Yeah, i’ve been in a few vehicles, but I’ve never personally used the IR equipment, BUT I have seen lots of video, and my buddy from the 82nd airborne has mentioned things quite a bit. From what I have seen personally, you can tell the difference between people, and cars, and other things that have heat to give them away. If you were hunting zombies, at night, through cover, the fact that they are just as cool or hot as the cover they’d be in, I’m sure that it’d be hard to distinguish them from many other things. Kinda like this: http://www.defensereview.com/article725.html All they did was paint one tank and not paint the other. You can tell the limited capabilities of the IR systems. Like I said, if the zombies are the same temp as the things in the background, then you won’t be able to see them as well as you would normally see the living.
Didnt mean to derail the topic….
@necrowerx
Yeah, you can smell dead stuff from pretty far away, but when there are dead bodies everywhere and it all stinks, then it’d be pretty hard to smell them coming. Conversely, if you smell like the dead, then maybe they wouldnt smell you. Although I dont see how zombies could have super senses given the fact that they are in fact dead and rotting. Unless whatever causes the reanimation of the dead prevents decay, then I’m betting that they’re not going to be hearing very well, or be able so sniff you out like a blood hound since their sense organs would be deteriorating. (Eyes, ears, and nose) I’d guess that shufflers are oppertunistic eaters at best and try to munch on anything that seems to be living.
Dr Who on 19 Oct 2008 at 1:22 pm #
The real focus needs to be on the situation at hand. Some are going to require stealth and some aren’t. Usually a stealth situation is going to be leaning very close to CQC. At these short ranges a .22lr pistol with subsonic ammo and a homemade suppressor will be the ruler in firepower. At ranges 20 meters and less the .22lr round has more than adequate power to penetrate the skull and mashpotato the brain inside. We aren’t talking combat against living humans where you aim dead center and want massive knockdown force. Against zeds in a stealthy situation, you have more time to choose your shots and aim. If you get to the point where your still shooting and not having the time to aim, the time for stealth has passed and it’s now time to make noise. While, yes suppressor do degrade your range (and thus your accuracy at any given range beyond close) when the situation calls for stealth, it will be close enough not to make a difference. And you can easily make a suppressor with pvc or metal pipe, a drill, a two liter bottle, some papertowels, and styrofoam peanuts. This makes a pain for aiming but anyone who has access to a pellet pistol can train themselves past the point of needing to aim at close range. Another problem in the close range area is edged weapons. The human skull is actually a very hard object to trully cut into. Usually what a sword blow to the head acomplishes is the sword sliding off the head (because of the roundedness of the skull) with a horrible skalp wound and a serious concussion, knocking the person out instantly. While this is fine and would finish off a living opponate, you won’t even phase a zombie with this type of attack unless you get really lucky. A heavy blunt, or semi-blunt (i.e. crowbar) weapon will be your best bet. With this you can crush the skull and provide the massive head trauma needed. As for those times where stealth is out of the question, get yourself a clip fed shotgun for those upclose and personal moments and a decent assault rifle for medium ranges. Long ranges, you are probably playing and having fun picking zombies off and are either clearing a fire zone or wasting ammo having fun. Also not enough can be said for I.E.D.s and homemade grenades.
Angryvikingman on 19 Oct 2008 at 10:25 pm #
SUPRESSORS DO NOT DEGRADE ACCURACY!
How many times do I have to say it. DAMN! All it does is trap the gases and “supresses” the crack of the round leaving the chamber. It doesnt lessen the velocity, the bullet doesnt make contact with the silencer (Most of the time). Trust me, I have one, I know WTF I’m talking about. Also, a sword doesnt just glance off the skull causing a bad scalp wound and instantaneous knock out. The amount of pressure exerted on the edge of the blade coming into contact with the skull is more than enough to cleave it in half. You could hit someone with the flat of the blade and kill them. (when hit in the head) No matter how you hit them, you’re causing enough blunt force trauma to cause death. Stop talking if you dont what you’re talking about. Go read a book about some of this stuff and/or get some real life experience before you go running your mouth and filling people’s heads with INCORRECT information.
Angryvikingman on 19 Oct 2008 at 10:27 pm #
BTW, 22lr can enter the skull at 100 yards and kill the intended target.
Dreamornaut on 20 Oct 2008 at 4:30 am #
Angryvikingman,
I think this is were personal experience, writen accounts and the statistics all fall appart from each other. It’s like the ‘common’ belief that .22 short at close range will possibley puncture the skull and dance around the brain pan churning your brain to mush. Well I know that’s not always true. .22lr will not always punch through a skull at 100 yards either, nore will it always kill you. Hell I have a family member that was shot in the head at point blank 12 times with .22lr and was still walking and talking afterwards. Which of course saved his life since he was drug out to no where before it happened. Though I will acknowledge that this is by far an exception to the rule.
The problem is that I know alot of people who have been shot or stabbed in the head who just suffured glancing wounds. There’s even a few people I know with parts in there head from .45acp and 223. Assuming I’m not the only person who’s seen this more then once. Since the people who have been killed this way aren’t walking talking testaments to the effectiveness of .22lr (at least yet) the exeptions could then cloud reality. It happens all the time.
Angryvikingman on 20 Oct 2008 at 12:32 pm #
Well, I was a student at a school that had a multiple fatality shooting. I was standing less than 5 feet from 2 teachers who were shot with a 22lr. One died, one lived, but suffered brain damage. Another student was also shot and killed. The two teachers were both shot in the head. Also, when I was in 4th grade, a freind of mine (Jimmy Krise) was killed by a 22lr because the bullet ricocheted off the surface of a pond and hit him in the head. I DO have personal experience. I grew up in the country and have killed multiple animals with my .22lr, and from pretty good distances. I’ve hunted all my life. I’ve even seen whitetail deer be killed by .22lr. Much of the lethality of .22lr depends on shot placement. The front of the skull is the worst place to shoot. As far as the case for other calibers, I’ve heard a first hand account of a man shot at close range in the back of the head with a .357 and surviving. Miracles do happen.
Dr Who on 20 Oct 2008 at 12:45 pm #
The way a suppressor degades accuracy is it reduces the power behind a round. Take your suppressor out to a class III range. Go to the 300 yard area and switch back and forth between the suppressor and unsuppressed. You will see a difference between the two. It depends on the weapon and the rounds used but there is a difference. It may only be minimal, but it will be there. Even disregarding this, suppressors get dirty quickly and need to be cleaned often, homemade ones (as it is hard and expensive to get hold of legal ones) are fragile and not as effective.
Can a .22lr penetrate a skull at 100 yards, by all means. I’m talking about EFFECTIVE range. Where you can pretty much COUNT on hits and kills.
I’ve trained with melee weapons for 20 years now, I KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT. If you are weilding a claymore (the sword not the mine) or a flamberge, yes you are likely to cleave skulls as the kinetic energy involved is more than enough to overcome the deflection angle of a skull. Where as what most people here are talking about when using a sword is a katana or machete, the kinetic energies involved aren’t nearly high enough to guarantee skull penetration on a consistant basis. With melee weapons you want to focus on power, not finesse. Swords as a whole are finesse weapons until you get into the purely two-handed variety. Stick with heavy clubs, battle axes, and two handers. If you want to train in skull cleaving at home, get yourself a canaloupe and cover it with about a 1/3 of an inch of concrete (approximate strength of the skull) then a 1/3 inch of wet newspaper. Then talk to me about cleaving skulls in half. I will say this though, if you focus on disabling zeds, a katana and hamstringing blows is the way to go. Then all you are dealing with are alot of easily outrun anklebiters.
Yes there are alot of cases out there of nails, bullets, and other fun things penetrating brains with little or no ill effect on the victim. The thing you have to think about is the dead are using very little of the brain with most of it being rotting soup. This will PROBABLY make them more suseptable to damage, as rotting flesh would carry shock waves easier than living (and more solid) meat. It could have the opposite effect though as there is less to damage. That can only be found out with the first corpses start walking around.
Dreamornaut on 20 Oct 2008 at 1:20 pm #
Huh, you too? I knew a guy once who was shot in the back of the head with .357. When he was in the emergency room I guess the doctors couldn’t find the bullet in the X-ray so they were going to probe around in his head to see if they couldn’t find it. While the doctors were discussing it, an intern asked him to open his mouth. The intern ended up pulling the bullet off the tip of his tongue. Apparently the round had traveled from the back of his head, through his tongue and was stopped by his teeth.
I think when it comes down to it, I personally think it’s best to be on the safe side. Personally I want a .22lr pistol as a OMFG! THINGS HAVE JUST GONE FUBAR! weapon. Other then that I really wouldn’t feel comfortable relying on it to put down zed, especially if it’s subsonic. Though that’s just me. I’m just assuming that the front of the skull is going to be my only available target almost all of the time.
Dr Who on 20 Oct 2008 at 8:16 pm #
I’m sorry if I am down to pistol ranges things HAVE gone FUBAR. The last thing I want is it to be close enough to use pistols. Pistol range being 25 meters. Anything further, use a rifle. Remember keep a big nasty pistol, a .357 derringer on a necklace. One shot is all you need.
Dreamornaut on 21 Oct 2008 at 2:53 am #
Oh, about the sword thing. Dr. Who is right. Have you ever seen those guys in the carribbean islands choping coconuts with a mechette? They chop those things in half like nothing right? Well although they make it look pretty easy, if you ever try it yourself you may find out that most of the time the machette will slide right down either side. Hell even doing it on a cutting board with a heavy cleaver is more then a little prickley. Basicly blades, particularly long blades require alot of training and practice to wield effectively. This is one of the reasons swords were a symbol of rank and prestige. Usually, only nobility or the higher classes had the time (we are talking years) and resources to become proficiant with these deadly weapons. Not to mention that for the price of a sword you could buy dozens or even a 100 spears.
Even using an axe can be tricky. A woodsman axe has almost all of it’s weight at the head. If you aren’t framiliar with one and you miss your target, at best you’ll stumble forward a couple feet and at worst you’ll you’ll fall head over heals. Not to mention the occasional breakage or the head falling off mid swing. I’ll generally prefer something I could use as a bludgeon, pole or something that can puncture the skull which has reach.
Angryvikingman on 21 Oct 2008 at 7:35 am #
Sure, tell military snipers that supressors degrade accuracy. They’ll get a laugh out of that. Although most of them don’t supressors due to the fact that whatever they’re shooting at is usually dead before they hear the shot, although they do use them occasionally. Go to http://www.thearma.com/ This is where I learned my german zweihander skills. I studied for 2 years. You can be a pretty effective fighter after a few months of classes. I’ve trained in fencing as well, but I love my two hander.
Dr Who on 21 Oct 2008 at 9:28 am #
Angry, I talked to a former SEAL (held commander rank during nam) and a former Green Beret Colonel. Both said the same thing about suppressors. They do lower your max effective range (thus your accuracy). They do have their benifits though. The SEAL also said that integeral suppressors work better than external ones, though I have NO idea where you would be able to get one.
And if you have trained and are using a two-hander, you’ll be cleaving skulls, but what about all these samurai wannabes running around out there? Myself, I’ll be using a ball and chain. Home built, it’s got a 5 lb. ball on a 3 ft. chain all attached to a 2 ft. reinforced handle. I can take a small tree down with that bad boy, but I’d NEVER suggest to anyone else to use it unless they invest the time to train with it. Hell, just about ANYTHING can be effective against zeds with the appropriate training. But there are alot of operative words there.
Dreamornaut on 22 Oct 2008 at 12:49 am #
Also, the homemade ones will have a definite effect on your effective range. Even if you know how to machine one the materials likely available will give you something pro-quality circa 1950’s at best. There will be a noticeable change in effective range and the effectiveness will degrade pretty quickly.
3ID on 22 Oct 2008 at 7:01 pm #
DR Who and Angryvikingman wow both of you guys know your stuff very impressed the suppressors will take off a tad bit of accuracy not enough to make a difference unless your going out to 800 yrd plus but if your going to shot a zed that far it would probably be just for fun and DR Who “a suppressor gets dirty quickly and need to be cleaned often” NO not relay the ones you can buy or acquirer if you have a chance are military grade even civilian ones are made to spec they don’t get gummed up
any way if you do clean it it should be every day with your rifle wicth you better clean every day and do a some sort of a functions check to see what need replacing on your rifle
Dr Who on 22 Oct 2008 at 9:35 pm #
From what I’ve been told (I am working with Vietnam era knowledge here but it shouldn’t be too different today) suppressors do dirty up faster than the barrels do. They have all sorts of space between the baffles (what actually does the work of suppressing the noise) that traps the gases coming out of the barrel. And you don’t have the action of a bullet to clean some of the crap out like bullets do to the barrels. There is a slight cleaning action from each round, though not enough to get out from cleaning it. I was told that the better suppressors you CAN take apart and clean. So they will last longer than I thought.
Another thought, though we can reload our spent casings and cast lead bullets, the supply of smokeless powder is limited. While you CAN make smokeless powder it is much harder and ALOT more dangerous to make than black powder. You can use it but it wears out sensitive rifles quick. And primercaps, I will have to check into how hard it is to make mercuryfulminate. Crap, things just started looking worse.
“Zed’s dead baby, Zed’s dead.” – Butch
Angryvikingman on 27 Oct 2008 at 9:28 pm #
Ah, just find and take over a munitions factory. I’m sure that they’ll have enough stuff on hand to make lots and LOTS of ammo. Hard to find some of that Info out though. Took me forever to find barrett firearms factory, and its in my home town. All they ever list is the P.O. Box. Stumbled across the actual physical location one day after coming back from a shooting trip. LOL.
Dreamornaut on 28 Oct 2008 at 4:09 am #
Yeah, those places don’t advertise there locations, I lived in a town for awhile that wasn’t far from a bomb testing site and a munitions factory. Alot of people knew about the factory because it was the big employer in the area, though a lot of people would pass it daily and not know what it was. The only real indicator was on one side of the place was a wide open field with ammunition storage sheds set a good distance from each other, otherwise there wasn’t much for signage or anything. The bomb testing site was relatively close to town, but not that many people even knew it existed let alone where it was.
Scaryalbino on 28 Oct 2008 at 9:53 pm #
for once i have no argument with this website, then again they are not encouraging small calibers again. stealth, when i can use it i try to, I’m 6′5 and albino (VERY PALE) so not only can you spot me a mile away in the daytime but i night i literally glow in the dark. Now if Zeds are color blind im all set but i assume they are not. So when it comes to sneaking around its not my thing, thats why i opt for shotguns and magnums. BUT back to the question; suppressors, if you can find/make them i say use them, you do lose a little bullet power but hey, its not like zeds wear armor… or if they do we are all screwed.
3ID on 30 Oct 2008 at 8:34 pm #
Scaryalbino zeds wearing body armor this you will see sadly cops military and your occasional crazy civilian with a bullet proof vest mostly military when a class 3 or 4 out break happens the GOV. wont know what is going on so they will send in the NG and they will try to detain the Zombies and they will git bite and probably say the damn SOB bite me and proceed to kick the shit ot of it so being in the infantry they will just srug the bite off as a flesh wound and keep moving then you got a Zombie in full battle rattle so be prepared
Dreamornaut on 31 Oct 2008 at 6:41 am #
No kidding. Just picture something like arriving at a checkpoint full of NG mulling about and realizing when you’re uncomfurtingly close that they are all zed. Zed wearing helmets and wearing gasmasks or full NBC gear. They might have all been bit at around the same time and thought nothing of it and as a result there’s no immediately apparent wounds. A group of scared survivors could easily wander into this situation, and although the zombie NG might not be able to bite, they would tear peaple apart trying. Not to mention your target area just got really small. What like 4″ x 3″ for a likely kill.
Dreamornaut on 31 Oct 2008 at 6:46 am #
4″ x 3″ inverted triangle actually.
Scaryalbino on 07 Nov 2008 at 10:48 am #
Well zombie cops wont matter much, remember you are aiming for the head, as for national guard helmets, I am not sure on this one but i don’t think they are all that bullet proof. Please feel free to correct me if im wrong but isn’t the helmet designed to take indirect fire? Shrapnel or blunt trauma? not stop a head shot. as i said it wont matter much to me, a 12 gauge slug or a .44 magnum bullet will more then rip through most Kevlar and even the steel plate in hight class vests.
3ID on 07 Nov 2008 at 8:48 pm #
yes our helmets are not bullet proof but they are designed to make the bullet travel round your head and out the back it follows the helmets curve.
Scaryalbino on 12 Nov 2008 at 11:30 pm #
still, a half inch of lead will going 1400 feet per second will blow through most body armor, army or otherwise.
jordan on 29 Nov 2008 at 8:23 pm #
OK, drilling holes in the barrel makes it LOUDER, just like a muzzle brake. If you dont know why i said that you didnt read all the posts.
Not to mention it will reduce accuracy.
If you want to use a supressor, awsome, their hard to get because of cost, laws, and availability. So good luck. POTATOES are not a good lowcost temporary solution, they just add a mash potato flash to the really loud gunshot. Its kinda fun in that “im-a-retard-so-its-ok-when-i-do-shit-like-this”kinda way.
To maintain stealth just shoot a couple times and hide shoot a couple times and hide, all you got to do is keep moving. If the idea was to hold a position and kill em all, you would want them to come to you anyway.
jordan on 29 Nov 2008 at 9:13 pm #
suppressors do degrade accuracy
suppressors do reduce muzzle velocity
and
suppresors do need to be cleaned more often
Depending on the model, a suppressor can effect MUZZLE velocity and degrade accuracy, although if properly installed and sighted in the guns accuracy could actually improve. Maintenance is required more often ,sadly, this is do to the nature of its effect on the escaping gases used to propel the bullet unburned powder, carbon, and lead fowling build up in the baffles used to supress the sudden expulsion of gas. in turn the muzzle flash also disipates as a result of “afterburn” through the baffles. There is a physical contact between the bullet and the suppressor, with out it the gasses would escape through the gap around the bullet!
Without the proper instillaton, especially with threaded supressors, they can throw a group completly off center. Of course tapping (threading) a barrel to match a supressor dyed by somone else with a different and getting a match grade line up is next to impossible, thats why you have to sight the weapon in afterwards. Imagine slapping on a whole new barrel and expecting it to be zeroed.
Angryvickingman its not that they didnt know what they were talking about, its just that that didnt understand the problem.
Sharpshooter on 06 Jan 2009 at 6:02 pm #
great section!!! but i have a question would the zombies even care if one of there kind’s head just exploded? i mean if they are like most humans today they wont really care about anytihng unless it affects them directly.
LongNguyen on 29 Jan 2009 at 7:11 am #
using a suppresor means cleaning it and your gun constantly after every use. it builds up carbon and muck very quickly. and if anyone thinks of putting it on a m16,m4 or any of its variant. bring a brush, tons of qtips and some rags. cause you will be cleaning that bitch. =)
Angryvikingman on 21 Jul 2009 at 1:16 am #
My supressor has 1/2″ x 28 tpi. Same as an M4 flash hider. Pretty much all supressors and barrels are threaded to that same standard.
LongNguyen:
Have you ever shot with or do you own a supressor? If yes, you are misinformed. Quite a lot of supressors arent even capable of being diassembled, and the copper jacketed ammo doesnt leave ANY residue in the supressor itself. AND it doesnt need to be cleaned constantly if at all, nor does your weapon. Yes, there is some residue left by the unburnt gunpowder, but not in a significant amount. I hardly EVER clean my AR-15 due to the fact that its service life can be up to 5000 rounds between cleanings before it gets gummed up so bad it can’t shoot. A gun does NOT have to be cleaned after every use.
3-15 INF on 04 Aug 2009 at 9:48 am #
As far as the accuracy or muzzle velocity of a pistol, as supressor won’t change much that will matter at 50 meters or less. On a rifle, it can change the barrel harmonics, sometimes causing the zero to change considerably . Again, long range shots are all that would be affected. Most pistol supressors can be disassembled, while rifle ones usually can’t. A little basic maintenance and the’ll last as long as any firearm, maybe longer.
I have a .22lr that works beautifully, and makes a pistol very quiet. My rifle suppressor can be placed on any gun that’s 30 caliber or less. Got both of them at Mission Essentials gunshop right outside Fort Stewart. I think the total cost out the door with all paperwork was 1300 bucks. Not cheap, but allows some tactical superiority. Melee weapons should never be a primary, in my opinion. I don’t want any rotting gore on me. Consider a zombie the same as a plague victim. I wouldn’t want bubonic plague blood splattering on me either. I believe i would use my guns sparingly and only shoot what got in my way until someday i ran out of ammo. Then, and only then, would I consider fighting with a hand held weapon.
It would be best to not worry too much about what you do or don’t own. For those of us who do own specialty weapons and gear, that’s great. That doesn’t make it the end all be all. I don’t carry those weapons around with me everywhere, and i have alot of firearms. BUT- who says I’ll be anywhere near them when the initial infection begins? The average person doesn’t know enough about ANY weapon system, firearm or not , to use them effectively in a combat situation.
This discussion of whether a suppressor would be a good idea only really pertains to those who own them and know how to employ them. Leave that up to guys like me. If a ZEDs head explodes right before he was gonna get you, and you didn’t even hear wear the shot came from, you can thank me later!
KillerB on 02 Sep 2009 at 4:03 am #
I have a supressor on a .308 rifle and it does not reduce accuracy. It is not whisper quiet due to the fact that I still shoot full power ammo through the rifle. It completly reduces muzzle flash and reduces felt recoil. As a matter of fact 300 yards away my rifle can be heard if it is pointing at you but to the sides at the same distance you would think that it is a mile away. From the back of the rifle you can not tell that a rifle just fired. The biggest reason that I own the thing is to make my rifle shot sound like something else. If you are a distance away you will NOT be able to tell where I am firing from. It does require an abserd ammount of cleaning and it does add weight and length to my gun. It also was a nightmare to get the thing. (I own two one for my AR-15 and one for my Savage 10FCP) they are worth the money just based on the cool points but if it is permitted in your state you can hunt with them as well. (Ferrel Hogs on private land only where I am from) but they aid in increasing the number of hogs you can kill in a single night. As I read above a supresson on an AR-15 is a nightmare for cleaning. More gas is blown back into the recever. I got a PRI gas buster charging handle and that helps keep those gasses out of my face. So far the reliablity of my SBR with the supressor has been acceptable. I have noticed a few failures to feed or extract that had never happened before so that is an issue but practice clearing stoppages and you will be fine. I can always run 350-400 rounds through the gun before the first stoppage. That is more rounds than i will carry in my combat load. Just be sure to get a can that can be put back on without loosing your zero (Sure-Fire) and you will be fine.
KillerB on 02 Sep 2009 at 4:09 am #
PS The supressor in a post zed world would be for elemination with out recognition. Unless you are using sub-sonic ammo then you will be heard. I would not want other non-infected know where I was more than the zeds. We are going to end up being our own worst enemy. The Zombies will be easy to kill compared to a half starving desperate mother that is trying to feed her kids. Or a father that has lost everything and is now in a permenant state of aggression and leading a band of like minded killers bent of further destruction. Or us the prepared when we run out of equipment. We will then turn on each other and in essense will become non-infected zombies that can think and react. In truth that is when the fun will really start. It might feel good to take on an advasary who can fight back for a change………..
Montyy on 04 Nov 2009 at 5:49 pm #
In regards to the original article stating “Also the sound of a suppressed gunshot often lacks the distinctive sound of a gunshot, perhaps meaning it will be ignored, though this may be a false hope.”
I’d have to disagree as having fired large caliber suppressed centre fire rifles before (.22-250/.243/.270/.308 to name a few) i’ve noticed that when using standard super sonic ammunition although the actual “bang” caused by the explosives in the cartridge is muffled to a certain extent, obviously the very distincive and loud “crack” made by the bullet breaking the sound barrier which can not be silenced without subsonic ammunition, is so loud that even at longer distances it would be innefective at not alerting anyone near your target..
3-15 INF on 12 Nov 2009 at 10:47 am #
My .22 is as quiet as a bb gun with standard ammo on a .22 pistol, and equally as quiet on a rifle with subsonics. My .30 supressor is much bigger and heavier but reall cuts down on flash, recoil and noise for anything .30 or smaller. They are both by YankeeHill Machine and worth the money. They reduce noise but don’t eliminate it. Better than a unsupressed weapon in my opinion.
Semper Cogitant on 15 Nov 2009 at 12:35 pm #
Suppressors are a very good idea, especially if you are trying to move through an area lightly populated with Zs. The sound of a shot will bring in everything in the area, so you want to be as quiet as possible.
Remember that a suppressor is NOT a silencer. You do not get rid of all the noise. It dampens it, sometimes a lot, makes it harder to hear from a distance. You still have some sound from the expanding gasses, and all of the sound of the action working and the sonic boom.
If you really want silence, you need to be firing subsonic ammunition from a closed bolt with a good suppressor.
As for obtaining a suppressor, they are expensive and hard to find, but legal to own in most of the USA. Here is Washington State you can own one, but it is illegal to fire a round through it. They are also almost impossible to find.
However, when the Zombie Apocalypse comes there won;t be too many worries about what’s legal. A suppressor is very easy to make and could often even be improvised from what you find laying around. The idea is just to slow down the escape of the gasses coming out of the barrel, it’s not rocket science at all. In a pinch a soda bottle or a pillow can be used, though it’s hard to aim that way.