Group Preparedness

Author: Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant
Submitted: 23 Sep 2008
Filed under: Mobile Defense &MZPK &Safety

39 Responses to “Group Preparedness”

1. Rachel on 24 Sep 2008 at 5:31 am #

   I’ve been reading up on many of these blog posts of yours, and I have to say, they’re the most entertaining to read as they’re quite visual and extremely informational.

   This subject, from what I recall, isn’t brought up very often– on a serious note, atleast. I’ve seen many groups that were a bunch of teenagers that swore to wreak havoc with their multitude of weapons, but I don’t believe I’ve ever seen others genuinely speak about their ideas of what their partners would be. I find this to be a grand idea to discuss.

   Me, personally, I would only take those that I’d have a gut feeling would be helpful. If the ghouls were to spread, then I would essentially go cold-blooded and only allow those I could trust, or otherwise believe to be both strong-minded and physically strong in the beginning. If anything, I would essentially make a ‘pack’ similiar to the wolves hierarchy.

   Alpha

   Beta

   Gamma

   And then, omega.

   Since I’m speaking from my own view, then I would most likely be in the alpha category along with my significant other, whom is a fellow survivalist and essentially knows alot on how to survive through disasters. Otherwise, if I were to find a gun specialist that knows more than myself, then I’d let them take charge if they had good leadership skills to boot.

   The betas would be good friends, which– the majority– are only people that have atleast basic knowledge of how to take care of themselves in said crisis. I’m already a bit picky about those whom I acquaint myself with, so this wouldn’t necessarily be a problem since they are a good shot, own semi-trucks and have great transportation knowledge, are good carpenters and well, are the redneck epitome! Gammas would most likely be those that have medical or another important prowess, while omegas are simply strangers that recently joined the group.

   Of course, we wouldn’t be calling eachother Alpha and whatnot, except for maybe on a transceiver, which would actually be rather useful. In all, once my group would be strong enough, then I would most likely find a large area and let my group stay there– only after finding escape routes that would prove useful incase we were to move. With my own logic, we would most likely move often, which changes the subject onto each of their roles.

   Alphas and betas would be those that would wield guns, and pick the best for patrol and overall protecting the land around the ‘base’. If we were to be near a large enough town, with bountiful supplies, then betas would most likely scout the towns with a transceiver while the alphas looked on, and gave them direction.

   Gammas would serve as protection at the ‘base’ itself, if the betas were temporarily away. Omegas would stay there as well, and essentially learn the ethics of our group and strategy by word of mouth and simply watching.

   In all, I’d actually hope that I wouldn’t have too big of a group. The larger the group, the more bait for the Zeds, I think. It would most likely be about 6-7 at the very most, with possible allies with other groups as well. The newer folk would all need to be compatible with both my significant other and I, and my friends who I know I can count on. Any suspicious behaviour would destroy any plans for letting them join.

2. instruisto on 24 Sep 2008 at 7:50 pm #

   And you could hold hands if you feel frightened. Or perhaps cuddle.

   Beowulf worked solo.

3. 3ID on 24 Sep 2008 at 7:54 pm #

   well, well, well Rachel I like the whole hierarchy thing you have going on, i agree on taking the ones you trust most that would be a big factor for me. frankly I would not grab a lot of army guys we tend to play chief a lot and not the Indian, but army guys have great assets like commo, weapons and engineering personal from what you said its sounds like you would start a small colony, fare enough. I personal would would stick to raiding parties, I would take a couple of my trusted buddies steel some strykers or M1117 and maybe some up armored 5 tons and raid villages and city’s that my idea each one of my budies would get a his own APC and a crew the crew would be survivors and the lot but if they tried to over throw me or one of my mates I would feed them to the zeds my self no mercy for the incompetent

4. 3ID on 24 Sep 2008 at 8:02 pm #

   oh and i should add i would not just stay in the vehicle and give orders from my safe armored preach. i would conduct foot patrols and raids right a long with my crews any way that’s how all the good leaders should lead were the metal meets the meat

5. Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 25 Sep 2008 at 12:47 am #

   “Beowulf Worked Solo.”
   Instruisto while Beowulf may have worked alone he was never ALONE, he had a group around him at all times. Friends and warriors. And you seem to forget that working alone also got him killed, and only with the help of one of his men, Wiglaf I believe, is he able to kill the dragon that is terrorizing his kingdom, but he was still mortally wounded. Working alone got the man killed, if he had not tried to play the hero he might have lived. Think about that, and while you’re at it think before you speak, take a page from Lincoln.
   Anyway, I like Rachel’s idea of having a hierarchy and setting up a base of operations. Though I’m going to lean towards a larger group, especially if you’re looking at trying to build a compound that may be the last human sanctuary for hundreds, if not thousands of miles. Bleak outlook? Yes, but I have never be accused of being overly optimistic. That said trust is a big factor in any group or relationship.

   “They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
   they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
   they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
   when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
   Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet

6. Rachel on 25 Sep 2008 at 5:27 am #

   @instruisto – Nah, I don’t believe a Zed apocalypse would be a good time to be giving hugs ‘n cuddles, or entirely being solo. Just my thought though– Kain gives a few good points about that.

   @3ID – Great idea! I agree, the best leaders do follow at the sides of those patrolling in large raids. Personally, the leaders of my own group would have to be adept with keeping their eyes peeled and being cool while raiding for supplies with the betas, giving out any command for falling back or an outright charge to a specific location if the zeds suddenly outnumbered us all. Those with the better guns for shooting an onslaught of Zeds (Which I do have some favorites, but am going to take any that I can get) will have to move out for the supplies, just like everyone else if they want to keep that right. All would need to work together to not lose someone vital, as they’re all equally important and have their own strengths and knowledge. And yes, my group in of itself could be a colony of sorts, but as I said, I would also be acquainted with other groups that could take their own areas nearby. So, call it a few colonys once the area itself is sustained and marked as safe. The only problem I’d mostly be afraid of are the humans themselves– betrayel and anarchy, simply put.

   @Kain – The lower population I meant was for in the beginning, before the area itself was sustained and thought of as being safe. Even if it is bleak, I, too believe there could be civilisation after the zeds, and that we could all rebuild. I would actually hope that my ‘colony’ would spread outward from it’s first area, into other states, ect. Allies would be a necessity for this of course, and alot of ‘em.

   Like Andy said, from the Dawn of the Dead DVD:

   “We survive, that’s what we do. We survived the Romans, we survived the Crusades, we survived the Black Plague– We survived World Wars, we survive through everything.”

7. Dsurion on 26 Sep 2008 at 1:05 am #

   That pack idea is really fantastic…heh, I wish I’d thought of that.

   Anyhow, at this point in time I would be very comfortable and safe with my brother and best friend since high school covering my back. We’ve got complementary skill sets, think alike and act together. Plus we spent more than a decade (!?!) in scouts; not the USMC, but hey, its better than most people.

   I suppose in that strange future where zombies eat everyone, we’d be more like a hunting party than a mass of humanity looking to reboot the world…a fairly good approximation would be S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (if you know what I’m talking about) times three.

   Not only that, but I think knowing a couple people well is better than knowing a large group by name, or face, or how good of a shot they are. For example, I know my chosen fellows well enough to anticipate their actions, know how they’ll react under certain situations, strengths, weaknesses, and limitations. I know for a fact that, because of certain life experiences or training, one of them may be better suited to make a decision than I. Will any of this help while wandering around Bartertown? Probably not, unless glib tongue is a skill. What about a zombie ambush? You bet your bootstraps; I’d rather have only two guys with guns who will do exactly what’s necessary than a roomful that may panic, run, fire wildly, who knows what. After all, zombies ARE pretty freaky, and not everyone saves vs. fear.

8. jjc on 27 Sep 2008 at 8:07 pm #

   Three things that need to be added in to the list on top, in my opinion.
   One, sewage is a critical problem any group is going to be running into, provided of course they settle down. Dealing with sewage incorrectly can poison water supplies, ruin crop harvests, and most importantly spread disease among the survivors (lets just hope diseases can’t be carried by zombies).
   Two, water supply (and perhaps most importantly). If any group is going to survive for more than a few days it will need access to clean water. While you may be able to loot bottled water from grocery stores and those jugs of water from office buildings for a time you will eventually have to find a local source. This is a huge problem as many local water tables are already polluted today, and who knows what the zombie apocalypse may bring. You will most likely have to clean your water, test it to make sure its safe, mean while ensure no run off from farms (insecticides) or sewage gets into it. Just to make sure you understand waters importance here’s a few things you will need it for; cleaning clothes, vehicles, food (washing vegetables), yourself, dishes (cause you will eventually run out of paper plates);watering plants (rain is no guarantee); drinking water for you and any animals you may have. Their is probably something else I’ve forgotten but you get my point. Of course here’s a fun point for you to consider, in the dark ages because reliable water was so hard to find Europeans drank watered down alcohol. This gave them the water they needed and the alcohol in the water killed off the germs making it safe (though I have heard it said it impacted their overall intelligence, but hey they where still alive).
   Thirdly, you need a dedicated entertainer. This may seem kind of stupid to some but having a musician, comedian, or whatever around is the only way your going to keep your group from cracking. Sure you can be very mentally tough but no matter what eventually everyone cracks, and having some to brighten your day now and then can not be understated in it’s importance.

9. ZzDeuceX on 27 Sep 2008 at 8:13 pm #

   This is a tense subject for me, because I’m pretty sure mosty of my friends wouldn’t be able to hack it. I can get along with anyone, but when it comes down to it, I would rather be one man short than risk being eaten…thats life…thats logic. I think people are built with that inside themselves, that one drive…”Don’t get eaten!” Hopefully that will kick in for everyone. My friends dont really have any useable skills, other than zombie fodder and some minor firearms training((Courtesy of me…)) so theyre all basically toast. I’ll do what I can though. I would never leave a man behind, unless it would mean getting eaten…

10. Rachel on 28 Sep 2008 at 7:09 am #

    @Jjc I agree, those points should be added although they’re very basic needs that we all use daily. I suppose their importance, before a crisis I mean, is pretty devalued. I would have to say, for fresh water, if you’re near any mountain sides I’d most likely go there for it. Although most water can be stagnant, if you find a clean stream that’s coming from the cliffside itself, that would be most likely pure springwater. Another good thing for water is digging for it, and with certain vegetation, draining it. If you use common sense, such as boiling the water, or if you’re fancy using water tablets to purify it, then I believe you’d be safe. Filtering it though, prior of any of this, would also help in getting any unsafe bacteria out or grime. I do know of a certain tree specie, that’s actually parasitic, is good for water. Typically the branches twist around other neighboring trees, and if you cut the branches, water will pour out like a funnel along with possibly dew. If you find moist earth, then dig there, and you may just find underground streams of water. Simple things can save your life.

    I would also stay away from creeks, or rivers, or what have you. Although the water may look clear, it’s tough to say what could be in it. Upstream, a body could have laid up there and drained nasty bacteria into it. And for sewage, well.. I believe the simplest way to get over that factor would be to find working bathroom facililtys near the area you’ll be living in, or simply not using one spot as a toilet in the wilderness. That could, as you said, poison the vegetation there and make for a huge cooking pot of desiese. Really, if you have a group, then tell them to do their business beside a tree or ‘marker’ such as a stone, but only after digging a deep enough hole and then covering it with dirt and moss. The recently upturned dirt and moss would signal that you’d been there, and to search for a different spot to do your business. The key here, really, is to make sure that you don’t use a specific spot repeatedly in one week. Also, just never do it in creeks or running water. You could really destroy the habitat and what could be food for you in it, along with what could be mostly clean water if you really needed it.

    As a second note, moss is also good for.. er, wiping.

    I’m pretty content with what I have near here, mostly being wilderness, which I’m accustomed to. I think the big thing really is, try and find spots that you’re accustomed to and atleast know the area well enough before running off ‘into the mountains’. And if you really want, you could always buy a wilderness survival book to keep handy with you if things get really desperate. Other good things one should know if they do resort to the forests are how to make fire with simple flint and shavings, how to find said things, along with how to tend to your wounds without any first aid kits nearby. Other things, such as hunting, are also useful too. I personally wouldnt want to waste ammo on small prey, so finding other ways to catch it would be a huge thing for others.

    Maybe someone should make a subject as to how to survive in the wilderness, while simultaneously keeping yourself alive from the Zeds, unless it’s already been made.

11. Black Cat Crossed on 28 Sep 2008 at 11:41 pm #

    There are a lot of excellent points here, but one thing nags at me in these suggested groups and hierarchies. Where do children fall into these groups? Even if you don’t have any children or know them, chances are high there are going to be a sadly high number of orphans out there in need of rescuing and protection.

12. 3ID on 01 Oct 2008 at 5:45 pm #

    To me children are like a rare steak because when food becomes scare and I find an orphan BBQ that’s all I have to say.

13. Sinisterminister on 06 Oct 2008 at 4:11 pm #

    Did someone say “Survival Guides?” Allow me to share some highly educational sources for anyone interested in staying alive without modern amenities.For the great outdoors: “How to Stay Alive in the Woods” by Bradford Angier (New York: Black Dog, 1956). “U.S. Army Survival Handbook” Department of the Army, ed. (Guilford: Lyons, 2002) . “Tracking and the Art of Seeing” by Paul Rezendes, (New York: HarperCollins, 1999). Let’s not forget the updated “Boy Scout Handbook,” although the original American printing carries more details about wilderness survival than my most recent edition.
    For primitive living, allow me to point you in the direction of “The Foxfire Book,”Eliot Wigginton, ed. (New York: Doubleday, 1968). Also, “Back in the Day,” by Michael Powell, (New York: Barnes & Noble 2006). And let’s not forget “The American Red Cross Text Book on Home Hygiene and Care of the Sick” by Jane A. Delano, Philadephia: MaplePress, 1918).
    The reason I include older texts here is due to a trend I have encountered over the years both in first aid training, C.P.R. training, and even wilderness survival training: Instructions in the manuals and training sessions have gradually been “dumbed down” over the years. Teachers and trainers are less willing to be liable for mistakes made by amateurs in the field, and consequently one finds less and less information in newer manuals and guides. It’s true that if one injures oneself during good times, the correct answer is “Seek professional medical attention.” But what if no professionals are coming? Ever? Add old treasures to your reading lists, friends- as well as new.

14. Chris on 07 Oct 2008 at 1:17 pm #

    I would much rather have a small group of competent people (3 – 5) that I can trust… instead of a bunch of alphas, betas, omegas, whatevers running around. The bigger the group the higher the likelihood that someone would slip up and let the zombies in.

15. 3ID on 08 Oct 2008 at 6:04 pm #

    Chris that’s a good point but that why you have the 3-5 competent people in charge of at least 3 slightly less competent people and i in my opinion would stay mobile for a while because to me no matter how good you think your defense is the zombies will get in or you will run out of supplies and need to leave so might as well get a rolling fortress so you can go to the supplies and having those other people around to help get the supplies more people more supplies and more people to pull watch because trust me it gets boring on tower guard.

16. Rachel on 09 Oct 2008 at 4:44 am #

    @Chris – I can’t help but point out a few things in my own post in regards to you using my example;

    Those ‘alphas, betas, whatevers’ would be very competent in what they did. Their sole titles would be for pointing out what they’re adept with, afterall. It may sound silly, but I’d rather have a code with people I could very well trust than allowing a possiblity for slip-ups when out on the road or looking for supplies. I hate to point out that I rounded up a number one to two digits higher than your own preference, at the very most, so I don’t really know why you used my example in the first place. Inevitably something would happen with your group, no matter the size, and I would think having different sets of people that could fit different needs would be best.

    I also did mention that the higher the number, the more at risk one would be in a sudden attack. I do agree with you in that for the beginning of the outbreak, mostly because it’d be hard to remain mobile when outnumbered. However, I do disagree in another point of view that I made for later on in the outbreak.

    I don’t believe I should just scavenge what’s left of the world afterward and live pitifully without hope of regaining civilization. The zombies would eventually falter to an end, and those patient enough would have a role in creating the world once more for the human race’s sake, in numbers. Those that are omegas would have to join with other more competent groups to help spread outward, and claim their land from the remaining flesh-eaters that took it. Those without experience or spirit enough to live would have already been claimed by that point in time.

    So in short, I can see why you’d think it’d be best to only ever join up with a small group during the beginning and middle of the outbreak, but rogue groups would have to eventually come together to make something of the world that’s left over and begin to pick up the pieces.

17. Angryvikingman on 10 Oct 2008 at 9:16 pm #

    I’m a bit of an isolationist. I’d grab my core group of friends who are gifted at a variety of skilled tasks. Then find a secluded spot in a rural area and make it defensible. I have seeds for planting and I spent most of my 28 years on a large family farm, so I know what I’m doing, even if they dont. At first we’d scavenge food and hunt, but after that, we’d farm. I can produce enough to feed 10-15 people on a 2 acre lot. Lots of corn and beans, but you can survive on that long enough to secure more farm land. The only problem would be food storage and spoilage. Zombies arent going to bother the plants, but you could fence in the crops if you want to. The living would be spartan for sure, but at least we’d be alive. Cities are about as good as a death trap. Stay there at the risk of your life. Zombies aren’t going to be in a rural setting due to the lack of people to eat. If there are any, then they will be rare.

18. Ivory on 11 Oct 2008 at 3:28 am #

    Instruisto-“Beowulf Worked Solo.”

    Beowulf also fought Grendel, a seven to eight foot monster naked with his bare hands. The question you have to ask yourself is “Are you ready to fight a horde of zombies naked and with your bare hands? Goodluck Jackie Chan.

19. Goldfish on 11 Oct 2008 at 9:44 pm #

    I know I know, been a while since I’ve been around (work eating me alive, which is better than a Zed I suppose), but I guess it’s time I weighed in on this.

    I like Rachel’s group hierarchy, but the problem with that, at least in my experience with people (and being an administrator over more than a thousand people, it’s nothing to sniffle at) for every one person who is capable of following, you will find yourself surrounded by ten that want to be Alpha. This will become even more of a factor in the event of an outbreak, simply because that’s when everyone kicks into Dawn of the Dead mode and starts dressing up like Ving Rhames and toting a shotgun. My solution to this problem is one of diplomacy: think of your group not as a monarchy but as something closer to a Senate. And, unlike the American Senate, English Parliment, or any other massive governmental body, you’ll be surrounded by people you know and trust (God willing, of course), so decisons will actually be able to be made without too much fuss. Another reason to be apprehensive of the ‘Crown and down” type system is that if you get into a situation where the leader starts letting things go to their head or the betas and below start despising their respective Alpha, the Alpha could be in danger. In my group we’re already well planned out, thankfully, and as such have all taken both a leadership and follower role, depending on the situation.

    Now, let’s examine the other side of this very same coin, the hierarchy.
    Great. Freakin’. Idea. Humanity has a great deal of impulses and instincts left over from our olden days of eating moths and mice in the forest, and as a result when we get that boost of adrenaline into our bloodstream, we sometimes get a signal wrong, leaving people with “deer in headlights” type mindsets where they will absolutely freeze up. This will give leaders who don’t have their team at the ready the opportunity to collect a team rather quickly. Nothing works quite as well as a shout of “Wake up!” and a swift smack across the face to get someone moving, and people like that tend to be as docile to orders as a Hindu cow and motivated like a marine. Granted, not everyone will bounce up to their feet and be useful, but you can have a “squad” prepared in all of about four minutes if you know what you’re doing and have people that can at least be told how to defend themselves, and therefore protect the group as a whole as you move to a safe zone. Think of it as a wolf pack if it was one Alpha and a hundred omegas. Down the road you might meet some of the issues mentioned above, but that’s not the point I’m arguing in this paragraph. We, as a species, need chaos to function but desire order. This structure gives your fellows someone to go to when they have a question and someone to keep their stuff in order.

    Now that I’ve argued with myself, I’m going to leave you with this: Any time you’re dealing with other people, things can get flaky. A business environment is very different from a survival environment, yes, but people will act much the same as they did their entire lives. The key to any success in a situation like this is to know people in general. Pick up some psychiatry textbooks, review situations where a mass panic has or could occur, and review the behaviors of humans. Movies have spoiled our view of the human psyche by building up a situation by showing screaming, running, flailing people everywhere, when that is (usually) the opposite of what happens. If you have a firm understanding of the human mind and the human body’s reaction to a panic, riot, or disaster you have the key to survival.

    For all his bluster, it is the sad province of Man that he cannot choose his triumph. He can only choose how he will stand when the call of destiny comes.
    -Mohinder Suresh

20. Dreamornaut on 17 Oct 2008 at 8:52 pm #

    I should mention that the pack hierarchy is one of role and not so much of perceived usefulness. The big thing to remember is that humans are a bit more adaptive and dynamic. Hierarchies will change based on changing needs to fit every situation, and like Goldfish said they’ll probably be a line vying for Alpha. I just can’t stop thinking about Machiavelli on several different levels. I think a better way to look at the whole wolf pack scenario is one of role the person fits into.

    The Alpha needs to be the ultimate leader, figurehead and the groups general vote of confidence. The person who makes the final decisions when it comes to what the group does as a whole whether it was the Alphas plan or not. The alpha also picks the people that will make his decisions work, which is the Betas.

    The role of beta is one of administrator. When the Alpha chooses a direction for the group in general, it’s the beta that usually handles the specifics to make that work. The beta gives everybody a role to preform based on there talents and the needs of the group. Also the beta keeps the group together despite the asshole in charge.

    The gamma in this case are responsible for a given task. From day to day they handle some sort of role based on there particular skills. This is usually general stuff. Also, when the situation changes or shit just hits the fan, they are given a individual duty to preform by the beta to make the alphas orders work.

    Omega is kind of a odd-duck in this set-up as well as in a wolf pack. When it comes right down to it, the omega is the one who keeps the moral up. This is the guy everybody gives shit to. Maybe he just isn’t too bright. Maybe he’s just not assertive or just a klutz. Otherwise, this person is in all other respects just like any gamma, and will need duties to preform, maybe more then anyone else if a leader knows what’s good for them.

    I’m the beta. It’s not like there’s really even a decision that’s been made. It’s just where I fit by nature. I can keep everybody on track, including the alpha, I can handle the details of how to make a plan work and get everybody into the roles they need to preform. When a alpha is fucking up, I can rein them in. It has nothing to do with my skill sets, it’s just where I fit into the pecking order in any group dynamics.

    Oh, also. Outsiders do not fit into the hierarchy. If a new person enters the group, they either fit in or don’t. It’s that simple. Nobody fits into the hierarchy unless they are a trusted member of the group. Any outsider coming in, no matter what impression they make has a potential to cause morale issues. Most likely because the first thing they will do is either attempt to usurp the alpha or beta. It’s a natural testing of authority, I think we all do it as part of finding are role in a group. Basicaly aim high and just fall into place.

21. Angryvikingman on 17 Oct 2008 at 9:07 pm #

    Yeah,

    Tell everyone you want to live to make an OSB, (OH Shit! Bag).
    Suggest common survival items. Make an emergency code word. Designate a meeting area, a meeting time, and a wait time.

    Code word/phrase: “The world is burning”
    Meet time: 30 minutes
    Meet place: burger king on 4th avenue
    Wait time: 30 minutes

    Send all that in a text to people who have cell phones. (Who doesnt these days) Call other ppl you want to live.

    You could always make a phone tree. That way you call one person, they call a few people and then they call a few people. That way no one calls the same person twice, and everyone gets the message.

    Hopefully everyone grabs the shit they need and gets to the meeting point within the hour, and you all shag ass caravan style to your defensive position.

22. Dreamornaut on 20 Oct 2008 at 9:28 am #

    Zombies seem to be tireless, relentless and have no concern for self preservation. They will keep coming and coming with random numbers and steady intensity. Though this sounds a little dramatic it’s true for all I know and it made me think of group composition. Just thinking of battle-buddies. I wonder if having battle-threesomes wouldn’t be better in these curcumstances. It would be easier to establish rotating rest periods for a group preforming a task, and provide a support position in combat against relentless undead. It’s just an idea.

    Since fatigue will be and always has been an enemy of any task. When the labor would benifit from two people, a third would be ‘at rest’ keeping watch. The three man group could switch off from time to time and ultimately be able to accomplish more, with hopefully less over all fatigue. The same could be true for a task best left for one person as well. Either way there’s a lot of work to be done, but since the zed don’t rest…

    When it comes to combat with the dead the three man team will come into even greater importance. The zombies will never have to stop and reload weapons and there is also the possibility of a sustained conflict were a lot of rounds are fired in a short amount of time. Having one person who loads magazines while the others shoot would allow for continuous fire, which in this case could be a life saver.

    As a side note, I’m also thinking of one shooter firing at a distance (beyond 100 yards) while another handles those that get within 100 yards. Also, if separated from any other teams the loader which is not concentrating on individual targets could also more easily see when a zed gets to close. Of course the ammo mule would be armed as well. While with other teams each team would have an arc of fire, which could cover 360 degrees if there’s at least twelve people with sustained almost continuous fire.

23. Dr Who on 20 Oct 2008 at 10:31 pm #

    I believe that a military “unit” structure will be appropriate. Make sure everyone has their own jobs. Even the village idiot can haul stuff around and take care of the latrines. Certain jobs you can leave up to fools and other ones you want trust involved. Really the zeds will weed out the complete morons after the first few days and everyone after will be good or just damn lucky. And the damn lucky ones are good to have around too.

    Expeditions are going to have to be sent out looking for supplies and equipment. Depending on the vehicles available and distance to supply sites really dictates the size of your expedition. Considering a decent survivor enclave a 10 person, 3 vehicle seems about right. Using one vehicle for security the other two for supplies. With two supply carrying vehicle it gives you one to lose to breakdowns and still make the expedition worthwhile. With three people one drives, one on security, and one resting.

    Anytime anyone leaves the walls of the compound and comes back, this is where you use the coldest person. Take your antisocial and have him/her check every returnee for bite marks or other signs of infection. Any wounds put the person into an isolation box. Depending on how quickly the disease turns it’s host, keep any wounded in that box a bit longer. This ensures against infecting your enclave. Only use you most trusted capable people on gate/sentry duty.

    Make certain everyone has two weapons one firearm and one melee weapons on them at all times. And remember everyone has their use, Forest Gump was an idiot but he saved his who squad.

24. Dreamornaut on 21 Oct 2008 at 12:56 am #

    Agreed. When it comes right down to it, skills can be taught and crucial talents found in anybody. Giving everybody something to do and providing at least some sort of structure will keep up moral, create commradery and enforce solidarity. Although I have my preferences, I really can’t ensure who I’ll ultimately end up with when shit hits the fan. Though one thing I’ve learned in my professional life is that a good team isn’t chosen, it is made.

    That register jokey you found running around shitting his pants a few weeks ago could end up having a knack for anything mechanical. The housewife you found hiding in a broom closet might end up being your best shot. The goofy guy from the natural foods market, might actually turn out to be an excelent tactition or even that lawyer you found banged up on the road side might be a natural when it comes to wilderness survival.

    All I know is when the dead outnumber the living, beggars can’t be choosers. The only thing you can really do is create an enviroment where everybody has place and purpose. Everybody has there job to do, and everybodies job is important. Idleness makes a mind wander and keeping everybody thinking about there job will help people keep there mind off how much of a annoying jackass the guy next to them is. Yeah, there are people who just can’t figure it out, but those will ultimately find themselves dead or alone and maybe both.

25. Dr Who on 21 Oct 2008 at 8:59 am #

    Dreamornaut, you summed it up nicely. With very few exceptions everyone will have a place. Those rare individuals who don’t or refuse to fit in can always be asked to leave.

26. Dreamornaut on 31 Oct 2008 at 4:01 am #

    Well I still like my three man teams. A full unit in the field would be twelve or even 24 people. The reason I have it as two riflemen and a mule is assuming weapons with common magazine/zip capacities like five, ten and fifteen which would have to be kept full almost as they are being used. Who knows how long the fire fight would have to last. Like I said before with the three man teams. Each team could switch duties to help reduce fatigue which is maybe the biggest weakness humans would have fighting the dead.

    Ideally, I would like this to be five groups of 60 (formed into two lines and a rear guard) with three twentyfour man recon units (that would find the zed and lead them into the main forces firing lane), a twentyfour man command/observation group and a 120 man support group with vehicles, supplies, medics and maybe some big bang if avaliable. Then you can multiply this by six, and add the population, infostructure and agriculture to support it. Then I think things would be alright.

    Seiges would require making fatigue a consideration even more since the zed might keep coming for days at a time and your people at the walls will have to be at full capacities for the duration to prevent the zombies from ramping over the corpses and breaching your walls. Rotating groups on the walls would be crutial, as well as having a method to either get rid of the bodies at the walls base (burning, currosion or something else) or prevent the zed from getting to the walls (tons of ammo, multiple walls with firing alleys, etc.). Personally I would prefer polearms and fire (assuming the walls won’t burn down) in a seige because of the possability of long engagements instead of firearms due to limited ammunition, which is more essential in the field and hunting if possible.

27. Angryvikingman on 02 Nov 2008 at 3:19 am #

    We really ought to do a piece on improvised explosives. Not necessarily on how to assemble anything, but where to find common ingredients and things like that. Bird poop has potassium nitrate in it. So does stump remover which you can get from any lawn and garden place at lots of department stores. Which is a key component to gun powder. Things like that. I’ll have to do some research.

28. 3ID on 05 Nov 2008 at 2:39 pm #

    Dreamornaut if it is siege you could use one or two of those CAT D9 bulldozers that would clear the remains of the Zombies quite nice becase i think the ones even the civiliens use have extramly tough windows if not bullet proof

29. Angryvikingman on 24 Nov 2008 at 11:06 am #

    LOL! More like bullet resistant. If mass and velocity are sufficient, then even a tree limb can break the “glass”. Mostly plastic is used because it will flex and deflect projectiles. Although, a lot of times, bullets will skip off or deflect when hitting even normal vehicle glass. Sure, it’ll break the window so your second shot may pass through, but you may not get a second shot. 9mm and .223/5.56 are notorious for it. If you want to shoot through glass, go for a .30 caliber or higher projectile, and no less than 150 grain. Anyway, I doubt that zombies could penetrate the plastic and heavy guage steel wire that covers a bulldozer cab. If you want to use it with 100% “zombie-proofness” then up armor with 1/8 inch steel plate and extra lexan “glass”. Lexan is really really strong. I know from personal experience. My friend left her infant in the car and locked the keys inside in winter, and I couldnt even break the window with the sharp end of a tire iron. The PSI must have been enormous, but it didnt break. Took a screwdriver and pryed the triangular window out of the back door. It was a rural area and no locksmiths could get there in less than an hour and a half. Too long and too cold to leave an infant in the car. The child had been in the car for 30+ minutes and I didnt want to chance hypothermia.

30. Josh on 05 Dec 2008 at 3:47 pm #

    I wouldnt recomend hunting or fishing or eating any wild animal unless its your last resort,they may be infected,i would reccomend putting dehydrated food in your mzpk.

31. Sharpshooter on 06 Jan 2009 at 5:57 pm #

    hmm i like the pack idea but wouldnt work very well with my friends… we are picky on who we hang out with meaning that unless the new guy had some badly needed skill (such as him being a doctor) he wouldnt get into the base i know it sounds cruel but it’s the way things are with me. my friends are some what of a good system… i can shoot amazingly with my rifle (hence the name) but i suck when it comes to shooting hand guns i mean im just HORRID at it but one of my friends is a good shot with hand guns but also sucks with rifles… with us the only tihng we would be missing would be someone whos good with explosives like i mean can make homemade bombs big enough to blow up a city block and a doctor.

32. Kasper on 08 Jan 2009 at 10:42 am #

    This might sound brutal, but it could be an idea to keep “profiles” on the members of
    your group if it grows large enough due to taking on survivors. More specifically, keep
    account of their contributions, assign a preset value to different kinds of work, or
    different kinds of loot. Basically, create an economy. This is somewhat late in the
    process, however, so probably not an issue for Group Preparedness.

33. Phantom-edge on 09 Jan 2009 at 1:28 pm #

    hhmm…to be honest I would not pick my team until after the zombie invasion,why do you ask?first off it is dangerous but in the long run once the weak are eliminated,the only people left will have survival talents,most likely crucial to your and their survival.As cruel as that sounds A weak person would just slow you down unless you are certain you can protect them,then it’s best to let them be.
    Once I do have a team,I would look for survivors,assuming there are any,weak or strong I would rescue them,maybe they have no talent in their bones or maybe they are crazy but as long as they can carry and help planting(you never know if you have to make a mini-society)I really don’t find a problem.If there is somebody who is basically “killing” the team,mentally,emotionally,and some cases physically I would use them as bait in discresion.

34. Etienne on 27 Jan 2009 at 8:33 pm #

    This is very true, both in war ad in possible zombie invasions.

35. Skeluhtor on 02 Feb 2009 at 11:22 pm #

    i dont like how everyone thinks they will be in charge… obviously at first u will have to be incharge of yourself but i would gladly pass it on to the next man if he proved more competant.. i know my limitations and the right person would know thiers… while they may make a better leader i will have skills they wont

    just a thought i mean never sell yourself short and take an order u know will doom you but also know your own limitations

    example… me and 3-5 friends band togather and knowing we get along dont have any problems… then our group grows to take in others… well fred seems to have been leading his group of 15 very effeciantly… but he doesnt have very many weapons or much training… yet they are all still alive maybe he has better leadership skills especially to keep 15 illequipt people alive and sane

36. Sharpshooter on 11 Feb 2009 at 1:08 pm #

    very true Skeluhtor.

    for all who live in colorado springs area e-mail me at: sk8wise12@hotmail.com

    no face to face meetings though so dont ask -.-

37. Jason on 23 Mar 2009 at 12:13 am #

    I would get most of my friends together, fortify a place, and go out on weekly runs into town for ammo, food, water, and anything else we need. If a survivor came upon us, I would let them stay, but keep an eye on him. I don’t think I would turn anyone away, new people bring new skills to the table.

38. Angryvikingman on 23 Aug 2009 at 10:10 pm #

    You said it yourself, you have to be almost perpendicular. Shooting at a car windshield, you’d have to be standing on the hood to achieve a 90 degree angle of attack.
    Shooting at a plate glass window:

    Most bullets hitting glass at a relatively normal angle(up to 25 degrees offset or so) track fairly well out to 10-15 feet or so, less than 2″ deflection from point of aim in most cases. The problem is the fact that the bullet normally gets torn all to hell in the process of getting through the glass. With the good bonded core bullets(like the Federal LE Tactical 165gn stuff marketed directly at this target array) it isn’t a problem, but with the 168 and 175gn SMK’s the core and jacket separate and you could have some terminal effect issues, particularly if the deflection from the glass results in the bullet striking the target’s forehead instead of the cranio-occular window. Instead of lights out, it’s headache and a drop to the ground, out of line of sight of the shooter.

    If you want to say i’m full of shit, fine, but I’m not wrong. Watch the Futureweapons episode where they show the .50 beowulf. Mac says the exact same thing I did about 9mm and .223 skipping off auto glass.

    KillerB reported to admins.

39. spleeee on 24 Jul 2010 at 12:12 pm #

    Yah buy you have to worry about someone who gets bit but doesnt tell anyone they were. one infected can ruin a whole group in a matter of days.

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