Morals After The Fall
When humanity falls and the undead walk the earth you will be faced many decisions. Not the least of these will be what you will add to humanity after society has collapsed. Are you moral or amoral?
After society has collapsed, which may not be that far off depending where you live in the world and depending on what happens in the coming months, you will be faced with several different types of people. You will run into people who have no skill in which to help you, like bankers and lawyers. You may find yourself looking at these people as nothing more than zombie bait and tempted to use them for just that. You will also find other people who have set up their own settlements and who have stockpiled food and weapons, but find that their views of the world do not coincide with your own views.
The question that I ask is will you take the high road and try to rebuild civilization to pre-zombie levels? Working with whatever you have near to build a better life with those who survive. Or will you watch the world burn with glee in your eyes?
Comments (61)
Snidely Whiplash on 25 Feb 2009 at 1:56 am #
I’d spend my days making my own personal existence as pleasurable and easy as possible, through whatever means necessary.
If that means helping re-build, so be it. If that means slitting throats, that’s not a problem either.
Marius on 25 Feb 2009 at 2:00 am #
I’d try to start a survivors colony, but it would quite honestly be a dictatorship. After all in an emergency situation, you have to have a clear chain of command, if you’re stoping to argue about what path to take every 5 minutes too many people will die. Better to know that this person must be obeyed. After you’ve got a green zone, then democracy can be allowed, but not until then.
3ID on 25 Feb 2009 at 10:26 am #
I would watch the world burn with glee. Humanity is pathetic in its own right. I would pillage and steal I would crush anyone or anything in my way, if you have what I want I will destroy you for it. Its that simple, if some one is stronger then me the old saying comes in hand you live by the sword you will die by the sword.
Leor on 25 Feb 2009 at 11:56 am #
Remake society in my own image.
seriously the zack attack will be a chance to fix stuff up.
I’d try to save anyone willing work hard and listen and bash in the skulls of anyone who posed a threat, or at least try to.
Masta_C.H.U.D on 25 Feb 2009 at 11:59 am #
My main concern would be for my family and that means protecting them by any means necessary. I would try and help who I can but with small children in the house I would probably limit my help to women and children or familys but not single men They might just be food >=O
jesse on 25 Feb 2009 at 1:05 pm #
Watch it burn. its usually warm and cozy next to the fire…
Dsurion on 25 Feb 2009 at 5:26 pm #
Hmm, the ever-entertaining morality compass; always interesting to hear how other people *think* they’ll act. Every time someone brings this up I always think of ‘Lord of the Flies’.
At any rate, I’ll fall back on the old morality standby: the D&D chart. For lack of a more accurate descriptor, Neutral with a tendency toward Lawful Evil seems to fit how my actions may be perceived. Good, bad…I’m the guy with the gun, and whether you’re trying to rebuild or dancing on a pile of bodies is pretty much irrelevant…unless there’s something in it for me. Think Clint Eastwoods’ man with no name or Jonah Hex. Yeah, we’ve all heard this one before: bounty hunter, hired gun, lone wolf, whatever you want to call it. But if this sampling (admittedly statistically irrelevant) is what I can expect when the world goes to hell, I think I’ll be safer with the zombies.
You boys can keep your civilization rebuilding, crazy tinpot dictatorships, and self-righteous moral ambiguity to yourselves. Me, I’ll be moving between strongholds helping and hindering as I see fit.
Marius on 25 Feb 2009 at 9:13 pm #
Dsurion, well I tend fall between chaotic neutral, and lawful something. You could say that I’m an Anarco-Fasist. That is in my colony, the government would be paramount in matters of survival and defense, and have no say in other things. Don’t hurt other members of the ‘colony’, don’t do anything to damage our defenses, and be willing to fight when zack hits the walls, other than that, do anything you want. Break a law and you’re out the gate, and good luck with zack. Welcome any warriors, people with medical training, and engineers, so you’d be more than welcome.
McLuvin on 25 Feb 2009 at 11:14 pm #
I plan on starting a survivors stronghold. However, I will be very picky as to who I let in. Anyone with a useful skill will be welcome on a trial basis. If at any time they prove themselves weak-minded or harmful to the group, I’ll kill them myself. It’s going to be a trying time after the zombies come and I don’t need any histerical, panicky, useless people making it harder on the rest of us.
I always tell my friends that when the zombies come there will be two classes of people, shooters and loaders.
In my camp even the loaders better be level-headed and dependable.
Marius on 26 Feb 2009 at 1:54 am #
McLuvin, you forget the third group, mobile snacks. :D
phantom-edge on 26 Feb 2009 at 11:12 am #
hhmm…very interesting..well I’ll start off with,with what I *assume I have.
A trust-worthy team:along the way you must have met people you can rely upon,
thus you will have their assistance if you’re considering to make a new society or anything e.
decisive action:if you haven’t developed it you’re most likely either a pile of bones
or joining the last remnants of the un-dead.
Plans:such as food,drinking sources or what not.
skill:you might find people who can build or something along that sort.
-my idea-
Simply house those I find trustworthy or need help,defend the”location” of choice
from not only undead but human survivors who are …let’s just say a little off.
to me there are only two groups of people:helpful or unhelpful,even the weak”or mobile
snacks”as one said have SOME use in a world.there will be contreversy,but as someone
else said”the one with the gun gets the last say” and most likely I will ask all new comers
to give up their weapons or leave.
-you know this reminds me of:the fall of arcadia-
Sharpshooter on 26 Feb 2009 at 12:54 pm #
i honestly dont know. id have to say that i would be a heavily changed person if i survived the initial outbreak and i have no idea what i would be like afterwords and those of you saying you would watch the world burn or help re-build are so full of shit because like i said: you survive the initial outbreak your are going to be a changed person.
Spanky on 26 Feb 2009 at 2:59 pm #
For real you never know how you will end up after you watch children being ripped from their mothers arms or your girlfriend eatan alive. It might be for the good or bad you could feel inclined to save the world but why would you want to fight the dead AND the living we would need to band together ro survive. No use killing each other, in the end they might save your life you just dont know it yet. Why make everything harder than it allready is?
A. McGuillicutty on 27 Feb 2009 at 10:09 am #
Any decision you make at any time during Z-days MUST be based on weather it is the best decision for keeping you alive both for the long run and the moment at hand.
If you started out with a weeks worth of food and now only have 2 days worth would you offer sanctuary in exchange for food, or would you raid travelers/homes and settlements?
Obviously there is no fail safe decision but there are lower risk ones, they may be the moral choice or they may be otherwise. Sticking to one particular moral code will probably get you killed. So just think logically, logic trumps all.
Angryvikingman on 27 Feb 2009 at 3:42 pm #
My moral flexibility has been expressed a few times on here. I’m generally an easy going person, but in the event of an earth shattering apocalypse, I’ll go berserk in a second. Everyone else (expecpt fam and friends) are a threat to my survival. They are definately expendable. If you can help me, fine, if you can’t I’ll drop you in a heartbeat when you become useless.
Ryan on 28 Feb 2009 at 2:32 am #
I would simply follow the orders of the most interesting person I could find be it man or woman, criminal or saint. Not really anything else to do if the world ends, and at least this way it will keep me amused.
jonessoda023 on 28 Feb 2009 at 2:52 pm #
Well im not 100 percent sure on what i would do. I would most likely just try and get my friends and those i trust together to form some kind of community. I live in a fairly rural area with some farms nearby that could be used to start a new sort of village. For the time being after the zombie outbreak we would just wait to see what the rest of the world was doing.
Jordan on 28 Feb 2009 at 3:52 pm #
So me and my roommates have a detailed and complete plan for the eventual zombie invasion. As survivors go we have a policy that states something like this. You can follow us on our quest to find a suitable home however when we get to where we are going anyone not present in our vehicle for the entire length of the trip a strip search to check for bites and other possible infection. As for survivors with or without skills as long as they are willing to fight when necessary and work hard to rebuild then they can come along. Also if you intend to eventually start a new society you are going to need people that don’t have any real living skills doing the road( ie Computer People,Lawyer, Banker etc) While at first these groups would have to do things they are not used to if we intend to rebuild we would need them around. As long as those that we recruit listen to us (we made the plan without us you all would be screwed type of thing) its all groovy. Everyone works everyone eats.
Sinister on 01 Mar 2009 at 10:13 pm #
Morality runs deeper than just how one interacts with one’s fellow human. Treatment of the self, an attitude about one’s self and one’s place in the world may have more to say about one’s long-term survival prospects than who we decide to hurt or help. For example: Someone who lives by the idea that their purpose in life to pursue a constant enrichment through physical and mental improvement may be better suited to survive a zombie outbreak than someone whose outlook on life is limited to getting through this world having maximized his/her pleasures and limited his/her pains. If that is so, then there are cloistered nuns who are already better prepared for a zombie outbreak than “Biff” who hangs out at the firearms store.
Let’s not forget this: Human beings are basically social animals. We are meant to communicate, and commune. This being said, those communities that stand the best chance of survival during hard times are those communities that are best able to align themselves, not just in a basic communal structure, but also in terms of their shared values. These shared values create an environment of trust, cement faith in the community, and give people the hope that together they are building something that will last beyond their individual years on this earth- a culture.
Let anarchists and self-centered people beware: These communities have the ability to see you coming, before you even see yourself. And they will protect themselves. All people make choices to join or leave their community; choose wisely.
Angryvikingman on 02 Mar 2009 at 10:11 pm #
Oh, right, I hear some one hand clapping B.S. You can’t tell me that someone who sits and ponders enlightenment is going to survive longer than someone who knows how to hunt, live off the land, avoid detection from animals who have senses MUCH sharper than humans, and knows how to use a gun. That’s crap. Any redneck will last lots longer than the average nun. I can guarantee that. I can also guarantee a community would rather welcome someone who can work and help defend them, rather than some “enlightened” person who tries to preach selflessness. Often enough, people who try to preach are only as good as their words, for that is the only thing they can offer from the pedestal they put themselves on, while the working man is oft unrecognized even though he contributes more.
another mike on 02 Mar 2009 at 10:12 pm #
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.
The Scout Oath. Sounds like a good basis for a new civilization to me.
/be prepared
another mike on 02 Mar 2009 at 10:15 pm #
The Scout Law
A Scout is:
Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.
If you can get all twelve traits in one person, recruit them. Aid their survival and they will guarantee yours.
/be prepared
McLuvin on 02 Mar 2009 at 10:57 pm #
Sinister, you have some valid points about human behavior. A group that is meshed, works well together , and thinks about everyone’s wellbeing will always be better off than a disfunctional group of selfish blowhards.
But I can’t help but think that those nuns would be better off if they every once in a while hung out at the gun shop.
Sharpshooter on 03 Mar 2009 at 2:44 pm #
Screw enlightenment thinking untill I can fortify a possition and devote some time to it. Theres always one thing that bothers me; I’m affraid i might go insane if I end up all alone. Which is why I have started devoting time to mental games and exersises, something the rest of you might look into as well though just a suggestion.
Sinister on 03 Mar 2009 at 5:18 pm #
Thanks, anothermike, for showcasing my point. Both sharpshooter and angryviking used a word I never brought up in my post: enlightenment. The idea that spiritual ideas are all divorced from so-called “real-world” skills is a lie bought into by too many people who are too lazy to bother with the place where battles are truly fought and won: The mind and the heart. Most experienced Boy Scouts will tell you that when the elements turn against you (and they will) the greatest enemy to overcome will be your attitude about your situation, and the confidence you have in yourself.
I have also noticed the locations of many Buddhist monasteries; sometimes they occupy the most hostile of terrain, where wind and snow threaten all but the most hearty. By angryviking’s argument, they should all be dead- but they aren’t. I have taken note of a great many Christian missions, and the all-but-abandoned neighborhoods where they battle urban blight, not just in the U.S. but in a great many countries around the world. By angryviking’s argument, they don’t exist. And yet there they are….
All moralities are spiritually informed, whether we want to own up to it or not. And the more powerfully informed a group’s morality is, the more cohesive their community structure, and the higher the likelihood of survival. My point isn’t that you have to choose one or the other: A spiritually informed world-view vs. real-world skills. My point is that having a deeper understanding of one’s place in this world fuels an indiviudals quest to be filled with the kinds of life-saving skills that both guarantee an individual’s survival, and help an individual to be more attractive to the community. No offense intended, folks. But I do think that we have barely scratched the surface of a much deeper subject than we know or care to admit.
3ID on 03 Mar 2009 at 7:46 pm #
I would not wont someone with an enlightened view or a High Moralities out look i would want some one with some skill that i could brain wash into willing minions that would stand and fight no matter the odds a person i know no matter what will never ask why and never question my judgment or my other leaders judgment that is for me and my loyal others to deiced i don’t like having more than one chief
Kevin on 04 Mar 2009 at 12:25 am #
Ok, so personally i would say, yes, they dont have actual skills, but unskilled labor is important, i would do a general visual overlook of them, it has been shown that people in the upper classes have a tendency to have eaten healthier and have had more checkups then lower classes of people, a basic unskilled person? no. a extremely healthy person who have taken care of their bodies their entire life? probably.
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 04 Mar 2009 at 2:47 am #
Sinister you have a very good point, we are only just scratching the surface of this. And while there is that Big bad Wolf inside that wants to tear the world to pieces, lets call him the id, I keep him under very tight control. For humanity’s sake if not my own freedom. That said, I don’t care how ‘enlightened’ you may be, if you can’t help me, then you hinder me and are no use and your line shall end. Those who are willing to fight, to adapt, to suffer so that they may live will prosper.
And I hate to say this because it will likely piss off every boy scout in the country but they can take their code of ethics and shove it. It’s nice yes, but in anarchy it’s something that you’ll more likely die by than live by. If I have to start up a new society the basic rules will be this: Do not rape, do not murder, do not steal. Now these are law that every man of every faith can abide by. If you can’t, then I will happily send you to whatever god you wish.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
Ryan on 04 Mar 2009 at 6:40 am #
Kain is definately the person I’d follow as he so far has shown most of the qualities that I deem interesting in his post.
Nicky on 05 Mar 2009 at 2:27 pm #
Being changed is a good point, I think.
Not sure what I will change to, as far as my personality goes I tend to become chaotic good or similar in games at least, squeamish about doing evil. And this is in a virtual game, where being evil should be very easy.
If I survive I will try to help others out that can help me in the long run, building a community. I could lead as a organizer I think, but I will follow anyone better than me at giving rational orders that will further the cause. The cause being survival.
I don’t really think the part about useless bankers and lawyers apply, it would take a lot I think to make someone utterly useless.
Long term, my personal opinion is that a small group is chanceless, there is a reason why humanity only started to prosper after settling down in communities. Everyone need to sleep and rest, after all. So you will need guards, carpenters, mechanics and similar for major tasks.. But there will always be work. You GI Joes has skills that are invaluable and utterly wasted on carrying suplies, building barricades, mending vehicles and clothes.
I wonder what this would have looked like, if written year one after Z.
Now, I could make some decent rational plans as to how to live in the wasteland, eventually behind walls with greenhouses for food and guards posted at all times. Just existing with two or three other people in constant fear of attack is not enough for me.
That makes me Chaotic good, ambitious?
Angryvikingman on 06 Mar 2009 at 5:12 pm #
Hey, buddhists live off the land they are given, and generally live off the land surrounding their temples, and the good will of the places surrounding them. Thats why they live very spartan lives. Buddhist monks are a LOT different than christians in urban areas or any other GODFORSAKEN place on the earth. Christians go in with the intention of helping people, and generally end up screwing it up for everyone. Look at Laos and Vietnam, those places where big christian projects that ended up in massive warfare. Look it up. Ask the thousands of dead Hmong tribespeople if they think it was a good thing that the christians came. Oh, wait, you cant, they’re dead. By the way, I never said that improving yourself mentally and physically was a bad thing Sinister. What you said sounded like preaching to me and I felt that you needed to be called down for it. It smacked of snobbery. People who act like that in a real life situation are usually the first ones to die, and rightly so.
3ID on 07 Mar 2009 at 12:25 am #
Angryvikingman good point on the snobby person dieing first. i hate those kind of people thinking they are better than every one else and they are the first ones to turn tail and run when death rears its decayed head, also i like Nicky’s post as well no won is useless there is a need for face less cannon fodder to be thrown at the on coming masses and yes making and repairing stuff is wasted on your good shooters that would be better suited to guarding or resource acquiring.
Tim on 07 Mar 2009 at 4:16 am #
I would definitely try to help rebuild civilization; although, I would try to do so in my own image of how civilization should be. I certainly wouldn’t be above using useless people as zombie bait and I would backstab people I didn’t like if it assisted in rebuilding.
Cyaegha42 on 08 Mar 2009 at 7:40 am #
Well, it’s nice to see a good question with some real debate quality. Now, as apocalypse-style events are rather rare in human history(recorded anyhow), this is a bit of a thought experiment, and a litmus test for both personality and moral standing. Ah, ethics. And now, my two bits.
In the beginning stages of a type 3 and above, simple survival is dependent on pure luck, with a bit of preparedness and mental fortitude. After all, seeing the re-animated corpses of friends, family, and the nice old fellow down the block chomping and chewing on the living is going to set one back a bit. If, and I stress this, IF you can keep a level head, the chances for survival increase by a factor of 3. Not much, but enough. In the initial outbreak, find a place you know, well, and hold up with as many supplies as possible. If that isn’t possible, you need numbers. That brings an increase in potential for what I’ve called a chaos-bomb. Basically, you can account for your actions, but no-one else. This actually decreases your chances for survival if you go the ethical, everyone lives route. By the by, that’s my way. I feel the inherent need for for helping others survive. thank you USAF basic training. But, if ones was to go the other route… well, I love playing Devil’s Advocate(fascinating history, check it out. The Vatican still has the position). If I wanted to survive, and only me, there are a number of routes to go. The ever popular bait tactic, made popular by Max Brooks in his second endeavor. There is also the real possibility of using local law enforcement and military installations, and their rank and file troops, to your advantage. Imagine baiting them to come and rescue a baited trap. You put some poor sap on the top floor of a nearby structure, and call as many shamblers as possible to that location. Usually, the the peacekeepers will go to their aid, diminishing their capacity for self defense. Use this to your advantage, infiltrate(with stolen uniforms and ID), and proceed to make the installation yours.
But that sticks in my craw, in reality. I would imagine finding myself trying to get as many people away from population centers, and to the top of a mesa, or a similar natural structure. Over here in the States we have so many people, yet so little frontier left. The Canadian North would be ideal, if you were prepped for the cold season. Mexico has some old mining towns that are perfect for defense, but you’d have to deal with local warlords(even now, no zombies). Realistically, I do have the idea that the military would be able to keep specific areas protected, and in some larger townships, National Guard armories would be fortresses waiting for civilian populations. But make no mistake: for every one of me, there will be five others out for themselves, and for them, ten thousand biters. I welcome some good debate(angryvikingman, you always have a great counterpoint), and please, make me see other POV’s.
Sinister on 08 Mar 2009 at 10:17 pm #
I see that Angryviking agrees with me about the Spiritually-informed morality of Buddhist monks; it does work for them, even in hostile environments. As for the Christian Hmong undergoing persecution for their beliefs, up to the present day- I don’t have to ask any of the thousands of dead Hmong whether it was worth it to die for what they believed in when I can address my question to the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of living Christian Hmong today. (I checked my 2000 census figures on that one, by the way, since “Angry” told me to look it up.) And yes, people of all religious stripes have suffered persecution and death because of belief, but that directly speaks to our debate about morality- For many people, death isn’t the worst thing. I think we can all agree that in a zombie apocalypse, death definitely isn’t the worst thing. Such beliefs allow an individual to sacrifice his or her self for the sake of others- even when the people being sacrificed for misunderstand the gesture, or are ungrateful in the short run. I might die in a Brooks-style “Zombie War.” But I think I’d rather die well than live badly, were those my only options. (Although I will continue to assert that it’s not a case of “either/or,” It’s a case of “both/and.”) I might make any number of sacrifices to save the life of someone who said my words were “bullshit.” It’s that spiritually informed morality that spurs me to go the extra mile for people who accuse me of “preaching.” And I just may have to lay down my life for someone who thinks I’m a “snob.” And if that’s the case, please understand: It won’t be a failure of morality, it will be a success.
Angryvikingman on 09 Mar 2009 at 12:08 am #
Yes, there are lots of living christian Hmong, in california. They got chased out of Laos. Many have since gone back, but there are still an overwhelming number of them living in the U.S. Yes, I usually do get people to see another side of things, some way or another.
Ok, depending on what National guard armory that you go to you’re going to realize a few things. They are woefully under supported in many ways. A lot of times they can hardly get ammo or other needed things to do their monthly drills. Also, a lot of NG “soldiers” are just some overwight middle aged guys. THough recently a lot of them have seen some combat in the ongoing middle eastern theater, but even so, they mostly do escort duty around the “green” zone and rarely encounter any large numbers of people. Most of the heavy conflicts and fighting is left to regular army while the NG guards the base. Though they have the weapons and vehicles there on site, they don’t really keep any ammo on hand. So going there is probably going to be suicide given the fact that it took the NG forever to properly respond to hurrican Katrina, and that is probably nothing near as bad as Z-day would be. So unless the Army pulls up and starts handing out gads of ammo, then I’d stay away from NG buildings. They aren’t really fortified buildings either. THey have large glass fronts and generally poor locking mechanisms on all of the doors. I’ve been in about 5 NG armories and they’re all basically the same. Now I’m going to start a little different discussion.
Where the hell are you going to get meat?
Sure there will be meat in grocery stores for a while, but what will you do when that runs out?
If you want a steady and self-replenishing meat supply, I suggest rabbits. Rabbits reproduce year round, and they’re freaking tasty on top of it. They have quick turn around time as far as reproduction of their eaten friends, and are pretty easy to keep and slaughter. I won’t go into gruesome details, but it is a little messy. I grew up slaughtering animals. We always killed and processed our own beef, pork, and even poultry. Just grab a chicken by the head and swing it in a circle a few times and the neck will break and a lot of time the head will come right off. I have no problems getting elbow deep in viscera (guts) and getting the job done. I’ve been doing it since I was five.
How many of you could say the same? I know a lot of people who get grossed out if they even have to touch raw meat in meal prep, much less having to actually kill a pretty, fluffy, little bunny and then rip its skin off, decapitate it, and then eviscerate it. Even if you do manage to supress your gag reflex a little at first, as soon as you open the abdominal cavity that smell will get you. I still get woozy from time to time when I’m skinning rabbits, and I do it pretty often.
Chickens are ok, but are slow and picky about reproduction. There’s a reason behind the saying “reproducing like rabbits”. In a month, maybe two at the most, rabbits are plenty big enough to eat. Keep a few good breeding pairs and eat the rest. If you have no way of refridgeration, then the longer they’re alive, the bigger they’ll get and they stay fresh and tasty until it comes time to murder the poor little bunny. Grow your own food and you can keep them fed on just about any type of plant fodder. Corn, wheat, tomatoes, they’ll eat anything. Hell, when they get hungry, they’ll even kill and eat the smaller rabbits. Like I said, they’re not picky, and they’re hands down the best and fastest reproducing food source. Hope you all enjoyed my little slice of hillbilly knowledge.
Cyaegha42 on 09 Mar 2009 at 9:23 am #
My point exactly for the NG armories. These are exactly the kind of folks who would try to mount a rescue, leaving the remaining troops woefully undermanned. The armory I have in mind is in North Florida, just a few miles from a prison. That alone brings up some interesting defense ideas. But that’s just my cynical side talking. ;)
As for meat.. well, depending on the way the undeath spreads, there could potentially be hundreds of thousands to millions of “walking happy meals”, to paraphrase. It depends on your morals. And morals go out the window when you are starving. Trust me on that unfortunate fact. I’ve never eaten anyone, and don’t ever plan to, but after a while in a hopeless situation, say a few weeks to months, that could change. I like to think I could resist that option, but then again, I like living. It’s nice, even with the downsides. And even if you don’t want to chow down on the shamblers, there is the possibility of survivors.. or rather, non-survivors becoming lunchmeat. After all, human history is rife with cannibalism. There are even specific rules in some religions on the consumption of human flesh in emergency situations, and also, specific cultural psychoses to go with it. Devil’s Advocate is fun. sluuuuuuuurp.
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 09 Mar 2009 at 2:48 pm #
I don’t mind what religion a person holds, truthfully. Me, I’m Roman Catholic, was raised as such, but I’m quite tolerate. Hell I dated a jewish girl in high school. That said, you try to force your view upon me and I’ll shove it up your ass, period.
Also, returning to the article, the part about useless was more directed at people who think that the government or others need to help them and do their work for them. Though on reflection those people will likely be the first to become dead-heads. And yes you do need people to do basic things when in a large group. I’ll apologize now for that, since I have the tendency to want to do everything myself when I feel that others can’t do it as well. However when someone shows me that they are more capable I’ll happily step down from the job, but I’ve found a lot of people who don’t like pulling their own weight and it is them that I find to be useless.
As for a meat source, Angryvikingman, brings up a good point. Eventually, if society does collapse you’re going to need to find a source of food, an army marches on it’s stomach and all that. Pity that the zeds don’t need food. I grew up hunting and have, in fact, been nearly up to my elbows in blood and gory of the kill. It’s not nice but by the time you get done dispatching a few hundred zeds I’m sure a lot of people will build up a tolerance to it. And remember kiddies, sometimes you have to either laugh or puke, and laughing is so much easier. Though Angryvikingman I would also look into smoking the meat as well. The meat will keep better than raw and with the right equipment you can feed a whole lot of people. That and it also happens to be a hobby of mine.
And how does the littel .22 shoot. I’ve heard a lot of good thing about them. A few people I’ve seen put surpreesors on them and at the Shot Show they have a couple set up like some ARs and M4s I’ve seen. Me, I just bought a Springfield TRP.
I also must make a slight point about the NG and what Angryvikingman said. Just because you have overweight middle age men does not mean that they pose little threat. Now my neighbor, who is actually a reservist but that will work for my point, is an overweight middle age man who can kick my young buck, twenty one years old ass across the street and would make even shorter work of 3ID. He can also out shoot most people I know, and his close friend who is also a reservist and who fits the same general description can do the above even better. That said they are the exceptions, but still just because a person does not appear to be in the best physical shape do not underestimate them. Age, wisdom, and deceit will make short work of youth and exuberance. Also a man once told me, a man who was former Army SF, that one day you might have to kill a National Guardsman to feed your family.
That also brings me to my next point. Cannibalism. No I don’t condone it outright, but if circumstances lead to you and your group not having food then I won’t condemn you for eating someone to stay alive. Though if you must eat a people eat the vegan non-smoker, they taste the best.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
James on 09 Mar 2009 at 3:57 pm #
This stuff is actually golden for my ‘practice’ zombie novel.
I’m afraid I’m one of those people who will by a chance of 85% say that he/she will do something evil to survive, then theres a 45% chance I’ll do it, and sadly, 99% chance I’ll never forget what I did and regret it. Even if it’s ditching an animal (particulary a Dog(I’m a dog guy)) to feed the Zs.
But there’s a 100% chance I’ll try to stay with-in a small group of friends and family, I CAN’T trust anyone I have zero trust in any human being! Which is sadly a very bad thing…
sean on 09 Mar 2009 at 5:34 pm #
with glee
definately glee
another mike on 10 Mar 2009 at 1:57 am #
Is it a bad thing if I laughed while reading Angryvikingman’s description of butchering a rabbit for the dinner table? Well, obviously it’s for the dinner table. No sense in killing a tasty critter if you’re not going to eat it. I was cackling with glee. It was an accurate description.
I remember a particular hunt with a greenhorn. We stalked and brought down a deer and while the greenhorn was butchering it, I was making a *hurk, hurrrrk* sound. Admittedly he was already having trouble keeping his breakfast down so I wasn’t helping matters any. I rolled on the ground laughing when he finally lost it.
When it all seems hopeless, your evil side can provide hours of entertainment.
/be prepared
another mike on 10 Mar 2009 at 2:45 am #
When there’s no more civilization to answer to; that’s when we’ll find out if our inherent civility is sufficient.
I’d like to say that what happens downrange stays downrange; if everyone that makes it back comes back with the same story, well, that’s obviously what happened.
But I don’t really believe that. Those that are just out for themselves, or who want to watch the world burn, they’ll end up in the ghoulish ranks. The people who want to be a part of whatever’s left will be the ones that survive.
If survival requires a breach of ethics, so be it. But I’d still rather be an ethical man that can release the beast within, than a beast with no ethics to draw on.
I think we’d make an interesting character study for a new Hollywood movie. Each of us with strongly held beliefs and unique outlooks. Quite the contrasts.
/be prepared
Cyaegha42 on 10 Mar 2009 at 3:35 am #
A character study… sound like a great idea. I do wonder how I really would react. I can talk a big game, but when it comes down to it, certain aspects of personality and training do kick in. I am morally opposed to killing of any sort. Period. I am against the death penalty, and other routes of execution at any age. But on the flip side, I have had the unfortunate experience of military training trumping my beliefs. I don’t, or rather, I can’t speak for civilians. As a member of the Armed Forces, the instincts taught simply do not go away. But civvies… it’s a grab bag. Survival instinct, killer instinct, desperation. They all manifest in different ways to different people. This has been a good thread.
JaxOTD on 10 Mar 2009 at 8:23 am #
Personally, I’m laughing a bit at all of you who say you’ll be the lone wolf survivor, or those who say they’ll always stick with a group. I think the only ones who’ll have a prayer are the ones who can adapt to a changing situation. And that will likely mean being in a group when it’s beneficial to be, and then going solo at the opportune moment. You can’t get too comfortable in either scenario. Groups have their benefits. You might need them. But at some point you’ll find that you need to break away from the group for your own survival. And then you have to be able to switch modes yet again if you meet up with another group. The key here is: don’t get too attached to anyone or anything (including any idea of being alone or with someone). In different terrain, you need different plans of attack.
Zombie King on 10 Mar 2009 at 4:11 pm #
If the burning is happening because we have defeated a zombie army and have piled their undead corpses onto a burning pyre, I’m bring the marshmallows!
That said, I would do what I can to rebuild society and ensure books, culture, and and history is not forgotten. I’d want to avoid another visit to the Dark Ages, as was the case when the Library of Alexandria was burned down following the fall of Rome.
guerrilla_warfare on 13 Mar 2009 at 1:14 pm #
I don’t know about you guys, but I’d gather as many like-minded individuals around and fight the zombies head on! We’d just move from small town to small town, purging them of zombies, finding supplies, and recruiting survivors to join us. Once we have a large enough force we would purge the larger and towns and some cities in order to create a sort of “green zone” then we would worry government, theocracy etc.
Instruisto on 16 Mar 2009 at 6:20 pm #
Like there’s any morality now. LOL.
Juggernaut on 21 Mar 2009 at 12:03 am #
In any Apocalyptic scenario it is vital for survivors to band together, it matters not whether it is due to the firestorm of Nuclear devastation, an uprising of our machines, extraterrestrial interference or the living dead.
The reason is simple, while preying on the weak and depending only on yourself is a inherently bad-ass idea, there is the simple fact that you will not be able to sustain such a existence for very long. You will run out of food, you will run out of bullets and you will run out of luck.
The only way to preserve the long term survival of both an individual and Humanity as a whole is to form communities, and continue to provide, somehow the necessities for human survival, food, clean water and shelter. While opportunists may luck out and find a source on their own, groups of survivors will be able to do the same with some tools, a competent militia and good old fashoned hard work.
Of course that isn’t to say that society as we know it will survive, most likely we will be forced into a more pragmatic and unforgiving mindset, this is a tragedy, but it may be necessary for the survival of humanity as a species.
Kiki on 22 Mar 2009 at 11:53 am #
Morals, who says we have them now anyway?
But really, morals are imortant. Seeing as the #2 threat during a z-attack is…well..hummans, we need morals.
To save a child traped in a building going to be over run’d by zombies, or to make it to the safe zone.
I think i’d chose save the child! D:
Morals are what keep us….human you could say!
Tyler on 12 Apr 2009 at 2:32 am #
I would try to rebuild a small society on the island i will escape to after the zombie apocalypse cuz that would be the safest place to be
jediwannabe1 on 13 May 2009 at 4:11 pm #
dude 3ID u said it perfect in ur fist post. except im not so rutheless… Humanity is pathetic but im not going to kill people just buz they hav something i want. Firts I will determine if my life depends on what they hav an if i NEED it and they wont give it to me, then yes, I will kill. But I will try as hard as possible to come to a peaceful solution, maybe bargain, or even try to team up with them if i think i can trust them. But yeah, humanity deserves none less than immediate deliverance, and I think it wud be just fun to see how stron i am in the new zombie world :)
jediwannabe1 on 13 May 2009 at 4:15 pm #
hmm… maybe i shud hav thought about this more…. If the zombies come and are finally exterminated, the the people who remain will be the people who are the strongest and most worthy of life. In the after-math of the zombies, I would try and create a society f hard-working people who wish to rebuild the world and create a a better world and a better humanity. Of course if anyone tried to screw me over, they’d be dead in a second…
mason on 20 May 2009 at 12:56 am #
what i would do is go chill with jonessoda023 cuz i know him and in the begining i’d probably tell people to fuck off cuz i’d be parinoid and not be sure if people were infected. then eventully after some time i’d start leting people join if they showed value or skill i would put them in solitary to make sure they weren’t infected. more realisticly we would probably start a raiding group and steal shit from places and travel north and fuck shit up along the way. but hey what would u do realisticly? its like war all rules and morals are gone even if u were raised and marinated in them they fade slowly away till instict that pushs to survive and civilized thoughts are an after thought. if u get stuck thinking to much about if its the right thing to do ur gunna be off guard and if ur not on guard its likly shits gunna go down or ur gunna choke up. i’d do what i had to do to survive like kill, rob, steal and all that good shit but i would kill every one i meet like a fucking psychopath. and the whole rebuilding civilization thing i’m guessing the zombie apoclypse would bring us back to times around the mid to late 1800s or posibly later cuz were not gunna have a mass abounduce of production. but hey thats my guess who rly know till it happens?
Ronin666 on 01 Jul 2009 at 7:19 am #
I dont know about other countries but in Oz the best armed people other than the cops and army are the bike gangs and a few nation specific gangs. They are organized and loyal to each other. Presuming the cops and army are out of commission these people are going to be the new overlords in a Zed-pocolypse. My morals don’t mean a hell of a lot in this situation,I’ll be gone, headed bush away from people, we have a lot of space to get lost in here.
TJ on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:08 pm #
If it means surviing i’ll tke what ever is nesscary while trying not to be some evil demon. For insteance if there was someone who was bitten I’d shoot them without a second thought. But yet if there was a desperately hungry child who needed food I’d ofcouarse be suspicous of a trap but still feed the poor kid. There are certian time where your morals could very easily put you into a trap like in Zombieland.
Semper Cogitant on 15 Nov 2009 at 1:06 pm #
We would all probably do whatever is needed to survive, and that would mean making some very hard decisions, doing things that outside the zombie apocalypse would seem immoral. Few who are not now cold blooded murders would be cold blooded murders after the Zs come.
We might do things that seem cold though.
There would be times when the survival of our family or group would mandate killing or leaving behind weaker or dangerous people.
There would be times when other groups or individuals would make those decisions affecting us and we’d have to use force against them to survive.
Those that try to go lone wolf won;t likely survive long, and if they are attacking family groups or social groups to survive they’ll have to be killed.
Those that figure it’s the end so they’ll just have fun, act like they are playing doom or something, are really no better than the Zs themselves and will have to die.
My own morals state that survival is key. There is a hierarchy of survival, who should survive. My family is at the top of that hierarchy. My moral decisions are based on that hierarchy. In a life and death situation the higher you are on the list the more likely I’ll help you survive.
big bear29 on 30 Nov 2010 at 11:24 pm #
Most people on this site could be sumed up as being like wolves or coyotes or wild dogs .
The wolves are the people that gather into groups , try to secure their own territory , set up some type of social structure and attack anyone that enters their domain unless they have something that they want . They prefer to just go out and attack their enemies directly using brute force and numbers to try and win the battles , also they may on occasion use some basic stategy and while this would have some success they would still take casualties if they where facing a large group of raiders or zombies . These are the people that say that they would try to rebuild society but if you don’t have a skill they need or they think that you won’t be useful they will just kill you . They are the ones that say that if they feel that you are a threat to their family they would kill you . I would personally steer clear of any group of heavily armed , overconfident and excessively protective gun toting people . Because as soon as some one begins to see others of the group as a threat or they begin to think that they could do a better job of running things it will get very bloody very quickly .
The wild dogs are the people that would be traveling the wasteland alone or in groups , killing zombies and humans and just doing whatever amuses them . These people will be little better than vermin and the greatest danger to all survivors . They should be disposed of without delay or hesitation . They are the ones that will be forming the worst of the gangs after the outbreak and will likely be pillaging , murdering and raping human survivors for their own amusement . They will likely be using mob tactics where everyone just charges in and attacks any target they can find and they provide little if any cover for their comrades . They will take what they want and likely destroy what they don’t need . They are vermin and should be dealt with as such .
The coyote is small , swift , cunning and adaptive . These people will likely form small tightly knit groups of people that are far less likely to draw the attention of the zombies or the other survivors . They will be highly mobile when they need to be and will hunker down in an area when it suits their needs as well . They value intelligent combat over simple mob tactics or direct brute force . These will be the people that setup traps and explosives to thin out the enemies and force them to fight the battles on their terms , they will kill off alot of their enemies without having to fire a shot . They will be almost like guerilla warfare soldiers because they are smaller in numbers than their enemies they can’t afford to use the same tactics as the other larger groups . These people might move to a safer area at first after the outbreak but they will likely settle in an area that they can easily secure against all outside threats . For a while they will be small in numbers but once they have secured their new home against any human or zombie invaders they will likely go out and start recruiting other intelligent like-minded survivors . Once they build up their numbers they will be a force that only a fool would dare to attack .
Personally I will be like the coyote . I will settle in the middle of nowhere far from anything that would draw the attention of other survivors or zombies and once I have secured my area I will go out and begin recruiting other survivors and start picking off those that prey upon them . My territory would become a no-go zone for wild dog raiders or the thugish wolf survivors , any of them that invade my domain wouldn’t live to tell about it , I would see to that personally . To let them know that they aren’t welcome there I probably would set out a few of the corpses of their dead comrades to show the rest what happens if they come into my domain looking for a fight .
big bear29 on 03 Dec 2010 at 11:01 am #
I forgot one group . The Lemmings . A bunch of fan boys that blindly follow what they learned in the max brooks zombie survival guide , despite the fact that this guy doesn’t know what he is talking about and he clearly has all the survival skills of a lemming . This group while heavily armed has a very limited chance to survive long term due to a string of poor choices that have been tainted by the advice of a famous but inaccurate book . Given the wide array of supplies that they possess and the aggressive nature of these individuals expect to see them picked off and picked clean in the months following the outbreak .