Forget High-tech, Look to Old School
Take a day and go to any major range and you will see any number of AR-15 model rifles, many of which running close to a thousand dollars or better. At accessories and the prices quickly become outrageous. A sidearm can also run well over five hundred dollars for just the base model any major quality manufacture. Add in ammo costs and the idea of become proficient with your weapon quickly become hopeless. But, this is when you look at the newest, latest and greatest weapons out on the market. What about old school military surplus, guns and ammo, weapons systems that are older than you, and have been battle proven decades ago, can these weapons possibly save your live during the zombie apocalypse.
Arming yourself on the cheap does not mean that you have to go with weapons that are poorly constructed or unreliable. Looking at communist surplus may be the very best source for a working firearm that is both cheap to own and cheap to shoot.
- The Mosin-Nagant rifle is arguable one of cheapest rifles to own, and one of those rifles that lends itself to hard use and reliability even under horrendous conditions. This is a rifle that has been in service since before WWII and is still encountered on occasion in Iraq. It is accurate, the ammo can be bought cheaply and for those who want to reach out and touch someone it is one of the best. Granted the rifle is not a slicked up sniper rifle it is a solid rifle that has one advantage over many of the latest in bolt action rifles, iron sights.
- The SKS: The SKS was one of the first rifles to be produced to use an intermediate power rifle cartridge. While they were not long lived as primary military arm of the Russian Army millions were produced and used as a secondary arm in both Russian and those countries that were supplied by the USSR. The SKS, while not as cheap as the Mosin-Nagant it is still more affordable than an AR-15 or even the ever present AK-47. Also, the SKS has a large selection of accessories and ammo is relatively cheap and easily found. Plus, for those who seem to require a bayonet one is already on the rifle.
- Tokarev: No matter what your primary weapon is you need a back up for those times when you just don’t have the time to reload. And what better handgun to go with your Russian designed rifle than a Russian designed pistol. The Tokarev is a neat little pistol that fire the 7.62x25mm round that was the 5.7×28 of it’s day. It is flat shooting, hard hitting and accurate at distances that some modern pistols have a hard time matching. Add in the fact that the ammo is dirt cheap and you have a handgun that you not only can afford but that you can afford to shoot and become very proficient with.
Granted none of these guns are quick or fancy but by God they work, and they can save your life in the zombie Apocalypse.
Comments (60)
AndrewxAnarchy on 24 Jan 2010 at 5:54 pm #
AK47 + Glock 23 for me.
McLuvin on 24 Jan 2010 at 6:23 pm #
Andrew, you do need to read the article before you respond. The AK is borderline at best for “Old School” and the Glock is not even close to old.
Kain listed the best combo. For weapon and ammo cost the SKS and Tokarev are tops. I would maybe get a CZ-52 in place of the Tok but either way you are in the bargain basement.
Docwade on 24 Jan 2010 at 6:30 pm #
Well, that’s about the best loadout for the scenario proposed.
sean on 24 Jan 2010 at 6:41 pm #
you could easily learn to use a crossbow,simple and reliable,cheap and effective,not to mention silent and deadly,you can add modern sights if you wanted to, but overall whatever model you decide to use it should still be an accurate weapon,also i can’t think of an older weapon either,aside from say a bow or club….
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 24 Jan 2010 at 6:50 pm #
I considered the CZ52 but I haven’t seen any of them as of late in the local market, not like the tokerev. Nice guns though, hell anything that’s CZ is pretty nice if you ask me. And the AK just is not bargain, not when a POS Century Arms underfolder is priced at 1200 dollars. Hell no, I can get a decent AR-15 with an old model Aimpoint and still be under cost(750-800 for the gun, ~350 for the sight). Not to trash the AK, there decent guns, and some are quite accurate but they just what too much as of late. They get back down to an average to three to four hundred and maybe I’ll put them on a list, but not six and seven hundred or more. And truthfully 7.62×39 isn’t as cheap as it once was, then again is any ammo really that cheap anymore? And granted the list is nowhere near comprehensive, but it’s the stuff that can be easily found, at least where I’m at.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
Angryvikingman on 24 Jan 2010 at 7:32 pm #
My ex-roommate had a sweet SKS that he bought last year for $250 with 800 rounds of hollow point ammo and 3 30 round duck bill mags, but the dirty fucker sold it after I told him repeatedly NOT to sell it without asking if I wanted it first. He got an insane deal on the thing, then went an sold it, the ammo, his 1911, 10 mags for the .45 and 250 rounds, and the dumb shit only got $600 from the guy at the gun store. I told him he got robbed, and I would have given him more than that for all of that stuff.
I shot a few mags out of the sks, and it was damn accurate. The vietnamese used them as sniper platforms to great effect.
I’ve never fired a Mosin Nagant, but I’ve been thinking about getting one here lately. They’re going for a median price of $130-150, and you can get the “Spam can” of ammo of 300 rounds @ $75-90.
You can certainly get it cheaper if you go to gun shows or specialty retailers that keep vast amounts on hand.
Another good alternative that is cheaper is remanufactured ammo. Some cases can be reloaded up to 20 times before they become unsafe to reload. I can get re-mfg 9mm at $8 per box of 50. Which isnt a great deal, but its cheaper than $15 per box of new 9mm. Shop around for deals, and for god’s sake do your research before you buy anything. There are some unscrupulous people that will sell you a crap gun and the wrong ammo. Find a reputable dealer, check prices on the net, and tell them what you found other weapons for before you buy and a lot of the time, they’ll work with you an the price.
Angryvikingman on 24 Jan 2010 at 7:41 pm #
Also, I wouldn’t pay more than $600 after tax and background check for even a new in box AK-47. I don’t care what dealer you go to, they didn’t pay more than $350 for the thing, and are trying to rape you if they’re selling it for more than $550. The shops here are selling basic models for $450, and models with more features for about $550-600. Check pawn shops for deals. They tend to not know what they have, and will let them go for cheap. Remember, cash talks. Flash a stack of cash and offer them $50 less than the sticker price, and a lot of times you can walk out of there with a great deal. (At pawn shops that is.) I’ve never paid the sticker price for any gun.
3-15 INF on 25 Jan 2010 at 12:07 am #
The topic was OLD weapons, not CHEAP ones. When I think of old school weapons, the image that comes to mind for me is durable, proven, made-to-last. All that com-block crap might be ok for some, but there are about a hundred older handguns better than a Tokarov, and I would much rather have a German Mauser 98K, a British Lee-Enfield, or American Springfield 1903 than a SKS . True, all are more expensive, but when it comes to weapons, you get what you pay for.
I have alot of old guns, thanks to my Dad’s fetish for the weapons he was used to when he served. I inherited them when he passed on.
All of which, I would consider ideal old school guns that would serve me well and , under the right conditions, I would choose over any SKS, Tokarov, or Mosin-Nagant.
1. .38 Caliber S&W Model 10 service revolver with 4 inch barrel- accurate, reliable, and still has smooooth trigger after 70 yrs.
2. .45 Caliber 1911A1- reconditioned, still shoots 1 inch groups at 25m
3. M1 .30 Carbine- lots of inexpensive 15 and 30 rd mags- fires 2 inch groups at 100M and has a round that hits as hard as a .357 magnum
4. M1903 Springfield .30-.06 Rifle- Tied with the Mauser for most accurate battle bolt (yeah, i know alot of guys pay attention to Soviet propoganda about Zaitsev and all that, but lets be serious)
The ’03 can be used to bash a head in and then shoot to a KM. The Marines held onto these with a steel grip until the more “modern” Winchester 70. MOST are 1 moa shooters.
5. M1 Garand .30-.06 Rifle- Really, get one! These awesome rifles are amazing- I love mine and would trust it in any environment. The eight round enbloc clips are easy to reload, don’t add much weight to your ammo load, and you can get them by the crate-load cheap as grap. The rifle can be topped off without them if you run out. Most are 2 MOA shooters. If you decide to add National Match parts, you could get them to shoot 1 MOA. .30-.06 is a really common caliber and Walmart rarely runs out of it, unlike almost any other.
When it comes to old school weapons, the good old USA is on top. I don’t think this is true anymore for modern weapons, but it was a different time back then. That was way before stamped steel, aluminum, and plastic made its way into combat weaponry. I don’t think that’s silly nationalism. There are SOME other old guns I would use though-
-Browning P-35 Highpower 9mm- first double stack 13 shot 9mm pistol- still great
-Luger P08 9mm- great little handgun
-Walther PPK .380- still an amazing pocket gun
-M1917 S&W .45 Revolver- another great gun that reliably, accurately shoots the same round as the 1911A1
- Mauser 98K 8mm Rifle- Superb bolt rifle that can hammer out the rounds all day
- Lee-Enfield MKIV .303- highest capacity mag of any bolt rifle from WWII and- only prob is ammo availability – get a .308 conversion
All these weapons are still in circulation, have alot parts out there, are duarable, tough, accurate- ok i’m done
McLuvin on 25 Jan 2010 at 2:00 am #
3-15, you must have missed the first paragraph when he mentions cheap guns. The idea was to list cheap guns that shoot cheap ammo.
None of the guns you list are inexpensive except the rare deal on a used S&W 10. Also every gun you listed shoots ammo that is much more expensive than com-bloc surplus 7.62xanything.
Semper Cogitant on 25 Jan 2010 at 12:57 pm #
The Mosin-Nagant in 7.62×54 is a great choice for long range, though in many areas ammo availability will be a problem after the outbreak so stock up. This is a great cheap rifle for longer range stuff, though of course it’s next to useless in close. Makes a great club though.
The problem with the SKS is that most of them available here in America at least have fixed magazines so reloading is a serious problem. I had one once that tended to slam fire occasionally, which is dangerous and can get you in serious trouble. I destroyed that one.
The Tokarev, and also to Makarov are great sidearm choices, cheap and reliable. The odd ammo will be hard to find after the outbreak, so again you’d want to stock up.
The M-1 Garand and the M-14 are both good inexpensive choices too, and they are in more common calibers so replenishing your supply might be easier.
Pistols by Bersa, Hi-Point or CZ are all fairly inexpensive and reliable, and come in common calibers. Also older used pistols of many types can be found at guns hows fairly inexpensively.
Also, don’t discount the possibility of revolvers, they are easily available and often very inexpensive. Carry two and practice a lot with speed loaders and you’ll still be able to take out Zs with the best of them.
Older shotguns can also be had cheap. In a zombie scenario their utility is limited, but they are one low budget option.
Semper Cogitant on 25 Jan 2010 at 1:10 pm #
Addendum, have to agree with 3-15 Inf on the M1903 Springfield too. They can be had fairly cheaply and fit the scenario well. The M1903 fires .30-06 which is ballistically almost identical to the 7.62×54 as far as I know and is much more readily available, at least in the states.
Angryvikingman on 25 Jan 2010 at 5:47 pm #
I’ve been to a LOT of gun stores and gun shows in my area and I havent ever seen a 1903 springfield. M1 Garands yes, but very expensive @ 1200 bucks. A lot of the sks magazine capacity issues can be solved by removing the factory internal mag. Do this by pressing the small button at the base of the trigger guard and removing the trigger group and internal mag, then replace the trigger group. The 30 round duck bill mags will snap in and out of place like normal mags, you just have to get used to doing it. This should work for every yugo/russian sks after 1955. As for slam firing, I think thats more common to chinese models, but I could be wrong. However, it is freaking dangerous. so be careful.
3-15 INF on 25 Jan 2010 at 6:42 pm #
Yeah, I know those guns aren’t for everyone- like I said, I inherited, didn’t buy.
GI .45′s can be found pretty cheap (I’ve found ‘em for less than 400 used).
You can still find Mausers for el cheapo and they’re easy to convert to .308. So is the Garand, though not as cheaply.
I took the topic as old weapons more than cheap, or the topic would be called “on the cheap” or something. My bad.
I didn’t really consider combloc ammo all that common outside gun stores. I find .308 and .30-.06 to be way more common.
If the topic was all about inexpensive, but effective, I guess a highpoint carbine in 9mm would be ideal for me (really cheapo and not the best quality, but hey)
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 25 Jan 2010 at 8:11 pm #
I’ve seen a few 1903s but they tend to runs higher then I’m willing to pay, and I sure as hell ain’t paying more for one than what I paid for my FN PBR. Less than six hundred into the rifle at the moment, including Harris bipod, Burris scope, sling, and HS precision stock. ‘Course it doesn’t have irons but you can’t have everything. As for a Garand those things are running higher than then hell around here, even a junked one will cost you close to seven hundred dollars and the bore was shot out on that one.
As for SKS slam firing the only times I’ve ever heard of them do that personally is when the firing pin is installed backwards. Had a friend get one straight from the factory that had the pin reversed so it can happen accidentally. The other time that I’ve heard of them slam firing is when the firing pin hole gets clogged with gunk and the pin gets stuck forward. Then again if you slap the butt stock of an AR15 hard enough you can get it to discharge so there is no design that doesn’t have it’s own quirks. Hell I know of AKs slam firing on occasion. Also they did make an SKS with a special modification to take AK magazines. I’ve heard of them running anywhere from 300-450 which isn’t too bad but still more than you standard SKS. I haven’t seen any in stores but I’ve seen one made up to where if you didn’t know your guns you’d have thought it was an AK. Another one belongs to my friends and that thing is nice. More accurate in my opinion than an AK and can take the same mags. The only problem is they are rare and that jacks up the cost.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
ThatScoutKid on 25 Jan 2010 at 9:13 pm #
all this talk of old weapons has made me wonder what a 30mm gatling cannon would do to a swarm of zombies…
Ronin666 on 25 Jan 2010 at 9:28 pm #
Around here Enfeild 303′s are plentifull and some are cheap, no where near as cheap as you guys can buy stuff tho! Before the semi auto ban I had an SKK, good pig gun, pretty accurate and cheap ammo back then. The cheapest gun in my safe is a Spanish 98 Mauser I picked up for $150, it’s saftey was missing. It’s now stripped down to just the action ready for rebarrelling to 308. As for cheap handguns, no such thing really,there are a few russian ex-mil things around but I really have no interest in them so I don’t know what they are.
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Angryvikingman on 26 Jan 2010 at 12:07 am #
The only SKS that take standard AK mags are the modified chinese ones. I’ve heard of people converting the russian ones, but they are really bad for jams and FTF. Just get a Russian/Yugo one and use the duckbill mags. They’re only slightly more expensive than AK mags, and have the same capacity. As for accuracy, with my own personal experiences, the SKS is far more accurate. I had a tight group at 100 yards with the SKS (9 and 10 rings) and a more spread pattern with the AK.(6-10-6 rings) Could have been lack of experience with the Ak, but I doubt it.
3-15 INF on 26 Jan 2010 at 5:33 pm #
Impact Guns lists the following cheap Primary guns-
1. Maverick 88 12 gauge shotgun with 8 shot tube for $209.99- that’s pretty affordable- add a 55 rd shell bandoleer and you have a good bargain basement blaster
2. Remington 770 .308 Bolt rifle for $369.89- comes with a detatchable mag and a cheap but effective 3×9 scope- not a tackdriver but it would work
3.Bersa Thunder 7-shot .380 auto- $299.99- good to 15 yrds and semi auto- the mags are cheap, even though .380 has become less than plentiful as of late
For one grand, you could buy a handgun, combat shotgun, and a decent long range rifle- all for the cost of a bare bones, base M4.
Angryvikingman on 26 Jan 2010 at 6:32 pm #
I’d go ahead and spend the extra to get a model 500 instead of the maverick, just because there are more aftermarket parts for the 500. As for the rest of it, thats pretty good research and not a bad loadout. Good job 3-15INF.
3-15 INF on 26 Jan 2010 at 6:55 pm #
yeah- I was looking for guns that had the bare minimum you would need for an effective fight and that’s what i found. No real need for extra mags, scopes or anything. Accessorizing would push the budget way up over a grand.
Angryvikingman on 26 Jan 2010 at 7:48 pm #
Well, you can be more than effective with iron sights. Also some of the cheaper accessories are actually pretty good. I had a 30 dollar BSA red dot that shot a 4 inch group at 100 yards, and a 40 dollar 4×9 scope that was pretty accurate to 200 yards. Most people wouldn’t engage a target beyond that anyway, so you can accessorize on the cheap and still be effective.
3-15 INF on 26 Jan 2010 at 9:55 pm #
Alot of us (I’m hugely guilty) spend alot on accessories that are marginally better than cheaper versions. I rarely spend for the most expensive of anything, but you have to pay for quality quite often. A taclight that i might spend 150 or 200 bucks for when I have plenty of money and I want something professional, can just as easily be replaced with a mini maglight and ducktape when the end of the world is here. You work with what you got.
Like KillerB, I keep back old school backup guns in other places than just the gun safe. I keep an M1 carbine in the lockbox in the back of the Jeep with a dozen mags and a few boxes of ammo. M1 Garand in the storage shed with an ammo can full of loaded enbloc clips. 12 Gauge mossberg cruiser in a sealed PVC tube with a box of shells buried in the back yard. Old guns in convenient places can sometimes be better than my M24 or M4 in the gun safe.
KillerB on 27 Jan 2010 at 7:37 pm #
I have a Mosin Negant in my car right now. I have 80 rounds loaded onto stripper clips that are in a Soviet era ammo belt. Great trunk gun that is capable of taking on any two legged hoodlems or Zeds. The rifle is cheap enough to be considered disposible and it is accurate enough for a gun fight. Ammo is cheap and I have many of the sealed spam cans at the house for the just in case senerio. I train with the rifle every chance that I get so that I am used to the heavy recoil and the reloading process. Having said that I would not pick this as my first choice for a gun fight but it is in the top 20 for sure. Having shot many Soviet era handguns I have to say that I do not really like them all that much. The Soviets, like many nations, never saw a pistol as a fighting weapon. They viewed them as a status symbol. But I do own a Tokarv TT. It does a decent job as a fighting pistol. The ammo is cheap but most is highly corrosive. So you will have to keep in mind that your weapons cleaning routine will have to adapt to that. Accuracy from my TT is less than desirable but it is possible to get head shots at 25 yards most of the time. I am sure that if I dedicated more range time to this gun I would feel more comfortable with it. Old war guns are still a great cheap way to stock up for TEOTWAWKI. But all things being equal I will still grab my AR-15 first.
duke on 28 Jan 2010 at 12:19 pm #
yea real nice job there guys…. taking advice from idiots isnt a productive practice. Advising people to purchase and deploy substandard weaponry with substandard ammunition is very typical of you dipshit armchair commandos. I am a combat veteran and served in US army for over 10 years and now am employed as a CQB and defensive tactics instructor.
You some better advice? Equip yourself with what local law enforcement and the military use. It will vastly inprove your chances of battlefield re-supply. No one gives a fuck about a rusty piece of shit tokarev, or a combloc bolt-gun that finding ammo for is a pain in the ass.
Get a damn Glock for a hand gun and be done with it. They work everytime you pull the trigger, and they don’t break.
Maintain possession of some good quality edged weapons too.
AK and all its variants are a good choice. Sturdy,reliable, ammo is everywhere, but the AR-15 will be easier to scavage ammo and repair parts due to current issue status.
Angryvikingman on 28 Jan 2010 at 12:54 pm #
I’m glad that I went ahead and got my AR-15. I can scavenge parts, mags, and ammo from any other compatible models that I find. However, a spare bolt carrier assembly, and internal parts would be good to have on hand before the apocalypse.
FreddeX91 on 30 Jan 2010 at 4:41 pm #
The M1911 handgun was made way back and the model still works like a clockwork and the US army used it in every war from the First World War all the way to the Iragi War and it is still used in some specialised units.
As far as i know there is no other firearm that can say the same thing. I think that is a testament to the high quality of the M1911.
I don’t know if you can get it cheap or not but if you can get your hands on it then you have one of the best handguns in the world in your hands.
3-15 INF on 31 Jan 2010 at 8:35 am #
The basic GI models aren’t any more than a Glock or Sig, but the original war ones are worth thousands-the only other weapon that has served as long in modern times has been the M2 .50 cal HMG
KillerB on 08 Feb 2010 at 6:19 pm #
Old does not guarantee that the weapon that you are wanting will be cheap. Cheap is usualy Russian, Chinese, Polish, Romanian. The AK-47 entered service in 1947 that is OLD. So OLD does not mean unusable. There are many people on this site that love their AK’s. A decent quality Sprinfield 1903 will run in the area of 400-700 bucks. SO if you want cheap gun that can possibly work get something made in or designed by the Russians. A Mosin-Negant is a great rifle and the ammo is dirt cheap and powerful. Any of the Russian service pistols are alright as long as ergonomics and comfort are not a primary concern. The Makarov and the TT are good defensive pistols but they are no where close to American pistols. We Americans pushed west with a handgun on our sides so, in America at least, the handgun is taken a little more seriously as a fighting weapon than our European counterparts. Keep in mind that when you buy cheap you buy twice. If that Glock is calling your name then go and get it. You will be happier in the long run. Whatever you choose as far as weapons goes make sure to budget for training. Even a .22LR pistol can be deadly in the right hands. Train so you do not have to realy on luck.
3-15 INF on 10 Feb 2010 at 5:18 pm #
WOW duke, congratulations! You said the same thing lots of us have already said but way more rude and condescending. Be proud you served, but there’s plenty of vets and current military who have experiences other than commanding a couch, bud.
The fact is, any weapon you are proficient with and is serviceable is better than your high speed tac squad gear locked in the gun safe, yeah? I have plenty of modern guns as well as antiques, and believe me, wtshtf, there will be plenty laying around.
KillerB on 10 Feb 2010 at 6:22 pm #
CHEERS 3-15INF Well said!
@ DUKE. Dude you need to chill out. There are a lot of us on this site with military experiance. Me included. You are right. Practice is everything but there are a lot of guys out there that can not afford the latest and greatest or they just do not see the need for such things. I have old and new tactical weapons ranging from an Enfield that served in the 1st Great War to a super tweaked AR-15 SBR with all the cool do dads to go along with it. You had better beilve that I will be grabbing the most capable weapon to handle that task. That may be my AR-15 or it may be my Mosin Negant that I keep in the trunk of my car. Both have their places, their strong and weak points and purpose. But you had better belive that I can shoot them all.
CHEERS
CorrodedGear on 16 Feb 2010 at 11:46 pm #
Well said KillerB. I’m a poor college student that wouldn’t be able to afford an AR-15 on a combat level for at least another few years. The mosin-nagant is something I’ve considered getting specifically because it is relatively cheap for a short term rifle. Plus, I’ve fired one before and was actually pretty impressed by it.
KillerB on 19 Feb 2010 at 6:51 pm #
@ CorrodedGear
You really can not go wrong with a Mosin. I have the carbine version and the recoil is spicy to say the least but is still more than managable. Get some stripper clips to make reloading a little faster and a few cases of ammo and you can not go wrong. I have found that keeping this rifle as close to stock as possible is the best idea. Keep in mind that almost all of the cheap bulk ammo is corrosive. No worries though. When you are done shooting for the day just boil some water and dump through the barrel. This will remove any of the corrosive salts that are left behind after shooting. The hot water will also evaporate much quicker. Follow this with some oil and the rifle will be ready for next time. PLUS it is cheap to shoot so range time will not have to blast your budget as much. I am a huge fan of the Mosin but I do understand its limitations and strengths. Some of its limitations are the very basic sights, slow rate of fire, often questionable accuracy (make sure the bore is in decent shape will fix this), recoil, muzzle flash (on the carbine version) and the ergonomics. Some of its strenghts are that the rifle is bomb proof reliable, cheap ammo, cheap rifle, very effective round, easy to carry, easy to shoot and operate.
Accuracy will be in the 3-6″ range at 100 yards but I have seen many that shoot much better and many that shoot much worse. Pick one with a good barrel and you will be set though. GOOD LUCK, CHEERS, KillerB
KillerB on 19 Feb 2010 at 11:56 pm #
You know I was just thinking. Why do we carry a handgun in combat? That reason, for me anyhow, is as a LAST DITCH weapon that can hopefully get me to a long gun. As a civilian the handgun is my only defense so it becomes my primary weapon. As such that is the best I will get in any CCW defensive shooting.
My point is this. If you only have enough money to spend on one gun to defend against the zombies then that gun should be a rifle or shotgun. I would choose a rifle before a shotty but there are many who would choose the shotty. Get a rifle that you can afford the ammo for. Choose a round and then, only then, is is time to find the right platform to launch that round from. Sounds backwards but the logic here is that if you can not afford to feed that 7.62x51mm blaster then it is worthless. You will not shoot it as often and that means that valuable training time is lost. Now you may be able to afford .223 steel cased ammo so go ahead and buy the best rifle that you can afford that will chamber and shoot the .223 Remington. Get the point. Recently I have started selling off all the guns that I have decided serve no purpose. I am not doing this for the money I just want to be able to spend the quality time with my favorite blasters that they deserve. Once I sell off all the unneeded guns there will still be plenty for the caches and BOB’s and even a few friends.
Just do not fall into the trap of thinking that you will have to arm and equip all of you fellow survivors. I am sure that two weeks after the zeds come everyone that you may come across will have some type of weapon that actually shoots and as a bonus they will probably be able to shoot the darn thing. I do not know anyone who wants to run around with more than 2 weapons and the ammo that goes along with them. Angryvikingman will probably be charging the zombie hords with nothing but a kilt a chainmail t shirt and a sword. Not me and unless you are able to pick up a car then you probably should not either.
So in closing choose the ammo that you can afford and then choose the rifle. As long as it is a modern centerfire cartridge then you will be fine. CHEERS
Angryvikingman on 20 Feb 2010 at 11:12 am #
The only way I’d charge the zombie hordes is if I ran out of ammo and was cut off from escape. Then the two hander would come out and I’d work my way through as many of those undead bastards as I could. In my ARMA training, I took 5 armed opponents at once. Its all about positioning, tactics, and a bit of luck. Most people dont realize that the sword is as brutally simple as a club, but has infinately more uses and ways to kill an adversary. Even an undead one. As long as it isn’t an unending flood, then even a noob would stand a chance. And if they’re shufflers instead of runners, then the sword would definately be my favorite method of dispatching them.
3-15 INF on 22 Feb 2010 at 11:35 pm #
I don’t really think of a handgun as a last ditch weapon if I already have a long arm as a primary. I see it as something I transition to until I can get my main weapon back up and running ( during reload or clearing a malfunction), or a CQB weapon.
KillerB on 24 Feb 2010 at 8:40 pm #
3-15 INF I understand what you are saying but if you are in a situation that requires a transition to a handgun then that is your last chance. Yes if you shoot well then you may get a chance to fix your long gun. I also understand the saying “One is none, two is one”. I just wanted to point out that if you own zero firearms then the first one you buy should be a rifle. For simplicitys sake it is easier to teach someone to shoot a rifle than to teach them how to shoot a pistol. The rifle is a more effective weapon in ALL situations. Would I go into combat with just a rifle? No! Having that handgun just makes me feel better. I have cleared houses with just a pistol when the situation demanded. But there was always a few rifles and a shotgun or two right there. The tactical situation dictates the weapons so we can both agree that the rifle is used in roughly 90% of those situations. It boils down to operator prefrence on when to use and when not to use a handgun. For me, any place that I can not fully swing my rifle (even short stocked) out comes the pistol. I keep transitons from long gun to handgun to anything under 20 Yards and over 5 yards. The reason is that if my gun goes tits up and the bad guy is closer than 5 yards then there is just no way to get to the pistol in time. At that point it is better to use the rifle like an expensive club and beat your opponent to death with it. For transitions over 20 Yards, if cover is available then I head for that to fix the long gun. If not then out comes the pistol so that I can fight to cover to fix my rifle. These are some things I learned in the Marines. PS I am not sure how any of these techniques would work solo. I always had lots of other shoooters around me so they could pick up the slack if someones gun went down. Didn’t work all the time but most of the time. Like always it boils down to training and determination to win.
P.P.S. Hows Hati treating ya?
3-15 INF on 26 Feb 2010 at 11:23 am #
Well, we’re here instead of our combat deployment, so in a word, it sucks. Hoping to get out of here soon and get on to where we need to be.
As far as the handgun goes, you do have a good point. Of course, the weapon I’d prefer is my M4, but I don’t carry it around.
The weapons I have in my trunk or my ccw pistol are more likely. That mosin you have or your keltech may be the only firearm you have access to.
KillerB on 26 Feb 2010 at 5:53 pm #
@3-15 INF
Hang in there Man. You guys are doing some good things down there. Not combat but probably more important in the long run.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about what would happen if I was limited only to my Mosin and Kel-Tec. I can do work with both guns but they are not what I would call ideal weapons for TEOTWAWKI. The irony is that I have put an old rifle in such a place that it will be used before any of my other more capable weapons. Funny to think of it like that. The P3AT is always with me unless I can get away with carrying my Glock 19. Summer is just around the corner so the Glock will probably get carried a lot less. The Kel-Tec hides perfectly with just shorts and a T-Shirt.
At least I am not the only one who always carries around a rifle in the trunk for when the shit hits the fan.
Keeping an eye on the news will help develop an overall picture of your area. If there are riots, looting, etc in a near by town then of course my loadout would change. In an extreme case like this I would make my M4 a trunk gun in a second. Of course with the M4 comes some other gear like a chest rig for ammo, and body armor. But right now things are calm so the Mosin is in the trunk. I plan on not getting cought with that as my only weapon but I understand that it can happen.
CHEERS
3-15 INF on 26 Feb 2010 at 7:03 pm #
Yeah the P3AT is an impressive gun- my wife and I use it as a carry gun when nothing else is practical or comfortable to carry and I really like it.. I always carry it with an empty chamber since it doesn’t have a safety. My usual carry gun is a five shot Taurus 85 loaded with +P 125 grain Winchester Silvertips. Aside from the apocalypse, I figure it’s all I need. The next level up is the .45 1911, and even bigger is the Taurus PT92 with 17 rd mags. One of those guns would end up being my only firearm if caught out without a long gun. We seem to have an oddly similar taste in firearms.
The 2ADirtbag on 08 Mar 2010 at 5:50 pm #
Put it this way, when the shit hits the fan, its not gonna be about how much ammo you have, its gonna be about how often you’ll come across ammo for your weapon. i can pretty much promise the military will drop by and if they hit a wave of ZAC there will be plenty of 5.56 laying around. Enter my M4. Doublestar M4 – $450. 5.56, reliable like no other and completely customizable with anything any other Stoner design rifle can have.
now as for sidearms, the military seems to be on the fence between the .45ACP and the 9×19 Parabellum. Enter my Taurus PT1911 and my Glock 17. .45ACP Taurus PT1911 – $550 9x19mm Glock 17 – $600. Both reliable weapons with solid reputations.
we all know the machete is a beautiful tool for hacking and other things but i have to admit, an 18″ Tanto sword will do the trick with a little more stability and only a few $s more… oldschool may be better for immediate prepardness, but the military standard will be easier to keep loaded and repaired in the long run…
Chicago Ted on 14 Mar 2010 at 11:28 pm #
“Granted the rifle is not a slicked up sniper rifle it is a solid rifle that has one advantage over many of the latest in bolt action rifles, iron sights.”
Iron sights? Really? Do you know how hard it is to snipe with a post/notch, especially one set in an obsolete Russian unit of measure? Seriously, all moist nuggets built before and even a short time after Russia adopted metric had rear sights calibrated in arshins.
Unless you have great vision buy a scope and a bent handle bolt carrier for your moist nugget. They’re not that hard to find and some are even on the cheap side.
Also, make sure that you can handle the gun. The .30 combloc is easy to handle in semi, the 7.62 Russian kicks like a mule and has a muzzle flash and boom that will skull fuck any weaklings within 10 feet.
The SKS is a fine gun with detachable mags but the TT-33 overpenetrates and isn’t a good home defender due to its low stopping power. It was made for shooting through helmets and cover and to comply with the 1899 Hague convention. Go with something in 10 mill auto for the sidearm.
crazycanuck on 19 Mar 2010 at 7:35 pm #
to the guy who said the “states is tops because it invented the m1 garand” you are false
the inventor John C. Garand was canadian.
i would take a canadian long branch lee enfield no.4 mk.1 over the british ones
because it is of better quality. despite being a bolt action it had a rate of fire close to
a semi auto garand about 35 rounds a minute. a bayonet could be attached for close
quarters. i dont know what the price on one of these is in the states but in canada
they are quite common and you can pick one up for around $200.
i would also use my s&w military nand police revolver for back up i like that gun
Dreamornaut on 03 Apr 2010 at 5:40 am #
Hello people. It’s been awhile.
Personally I would have a m1 carbine. It’s kinda’ a trade off since .30 carbine isn’t nearly as common as 5 56/.203 and it’s a little underpowered for it’s class, but it also is also easy to maintain, accurate and very forgiving. It is also a weapon that looks relatively innocious and wouldn’t likely be confused as milspec like the Bushmaster M4 would be which early on could create problems. Though I suppose it really just comes down to what you are most comfurtable and framiliar with.
Whether the ammunition is ubiquitous or not shouldn’t immediately be that big of issue. After all if the dead walk and your loosing rounds like no tomorrow, there’ll likely not be one.
3-15 INF on 05 Apr 2010 at 7:00 am #
What does it matter that John Garand was a canadian by origin? We fielded millions of the things. Did Canada? THUS it’s an american weapon.
3-15 INF on 05 Apr 2010 at 9:38 am #
I just checked on John Garand- he moved to the US from Canada when he was 10- douche
ThatScoutKid on 06 Apr 2010 at 3:59 am #
crazycanuck aren’t you the one who was calling us all crazy,paranoid morons?
Edward on 31 May 2010 at 11:06 pm #
I’m opting for my 9mm/.40 caliber handguns, .308 hunting rifles and 9mm carbines to get me through the initial period of breakdown to best determine what resupply is available. I’m keeping a few hundred rounds of each to get me through the initial period.
I wouldn’t mind the Mosin-Nagants except that I don’t see much 7.62/54 laying around on shelves. It’s the same with ammo for the Tokarev and even the .380′s out there. Some availability, but not much. I prefer the 9mm carbines (with lots of magazines) and the plentiful supply of 9mm around every sporting goods store and many hardware stores.
Later, if there’s tons of military gear laying around on the ground then 5.56 and 9mm ammo and weapons will be easy enough to come by in the first few years post apocalypse. If the military gets stalled in their bases then I’ll be resupplying from what’s left of the neighbors which means 9mm, .40, .308 and 7.62/39.
My mid-term expectation is that .308 is the go-to round while scrounging is still viable. Next to .30-06, .308 is the most prevalent caliber sitting on the shelves and will be there (on the shelves) and in the pockets of everyone sitting ot laying around when the SHTF.
If the situation continues to deteriorate, then I’m looking at picking up a reloading outfit with .308, .40, 9mm, 7.62 X 39 and .30-06 dies along with bullet-molding tools. This way, I’m set for the long-term future as long as I find a source for lead and the three basic components of gunpowder.
Course, a place for this stuff is high on my list. That would mean either establishing a place in the country or bird-dogging someplace highly defensible where the snowbird owners are not going to be there to argue about it when I need to squat there. Except for the reloading outfit, this seems mostly doable.
Edward on 31 May 2010 at 11:10 pm #
By the way, unlike many of you, I regard edged weapons as the last resort. Closing to knife range drastically increases your chances of contamination through splatter of blood or saliva, not to mention the odds of being bitten increase dramatically.
Survivor316 on 17 Jun 2010 at 9:18 am #
I have an old British 303 enfield. Great gun but ammo is expensive and somewhat scarce. I went for an easy to find 9mm for a sidearm. Picked up an old sig 225 police trade in for next to nothing.
Velesam on 24 Jun 2010 at 10:13 am #
I think a 22 is a great zed killer! If were talking about just zeds then this really is a great option at least for a close in weapon. I mean if you need head shots to take em down then 22 is great. I’m assuming that since they are already dead a 22 should penetrate fairly easily then bounce around scrambling those zombie brains. Ammo is cheap, easy to find, and easy to stockpile. Obviously at range or against living people not your best choice. for that I have a 303 Enfield. Ammo can be a pain and the gun is rather heavy to lug around but well worth it if you can stock up on ammo.
Happy Hunting!
ratking on 24 Sep 2010 at 4:38 am #
I’ll have to go 1911 and M1 carbine.
Angryvikingman on 24 Sep 2010 at 7:35 am #
Good luck finding 30 carbine in large numbers. This isn’t nazi zombies where you can get ammo off the wall.
Hillbilly on 28 Sep 2010 at 8:51 pm #
I am going with a .243 win. Easily good to 300yards and up to 600 with a steady hand. Here in Nebraska where you can see them coming you need a load that can reach out and touch some one. I going to use my trusty Savage 10 Predator. 75 grain plus vmax varmint loads should be more than enough for head shots. For up close I have my Winchester Model 12 shot gun, a super nice Stainless Schrade Machete and my Stihl chainsaw. Sure expense wise a .243 may be more but it is so common once the world is all exposed I should be able to find it nearly any abandon store. Try that with your 7.62×39.
Semper gumbii on 02 Dec 2010 at 11:55 pm #
Like I said before, your nifty “wtf ever” rifle is just going to be a club when you run out of primer and brass, or bullets if you don’t reload. Better buy a couple flint-locks, some salt peter, sulfur, and collecting ash. Oh yeah, a couple buckets of tire weights and a bullet mould. Learn how to shoot that. And learn how to shoot a standard bow and make arrows, because home made arrows won’t stand up to velocities a compound bow produces. Chew on that for a bit.
TZH on 19 Jan 2011 at 11:14 pm #
training yourself to make do w/ iron sights beats tacticool optics & gizmos any day coz batteries & stuff will run out in an extended crisis :-)
GotUR12GetMY6 on 03 Feb 2011 at 11:08 am #
my army issued SAW and my m9 will do me fine, thank god i was give 5 crates that held 1000 rounds each by my weps. sgt., ive been saving them. anybody live in N.C. Fort bragg like me?
GotUR12GetMY6 on 03 Feb 2011 at 11:09 am #
7.62 rounds :)
3- 15 INF on 08 Feb 2011 at 10:34 am #
Yeah, I do- I live in Dunn and do the commute everyday- Im in the 2nd Bde, 1-325th – what unit are you in?
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