Axing the Debate
One of the oldest weapons of man is the ax, in various shapes and forms. While some of the oldest were little more than stone wedges today’s axes are high tech and designed to do their jobs with minimum work. So, is the ax, the hand ax, and the American cousin the tomahawk the answer to the melee debate?
Advantages:
1. Availability: As a utility tool and a combat weapon the ax is simplistic and brute effeteness in one package, it is also widely available. While you may not find the latest and great in battle “hawks” at you local hardware store you will likely find a fine variety of utility axes.
2. The all around tool: While you can kill with an ax it’s most tantalizing aspect is the multi-use aspect of it. One can use an ax to chop wood, breach a door, or hack their way out of a house through the roof when they fled to the attic after the defenses have been over run. The uses for an ax are many and varied and this is perhaps one of the reasons that many will choose it over a sword or other weapons that require years of training to achieve proficiency.
Disadvantages:
1. Exhaustion: In combat the weight of the ax and the energy required to swing and swing it is perhaps one of the greatest downsides of the ax. Exhaustion against an enemy that does not tire can be fatal and even at peak fitness a person can easily run out of energy and once fatigued make a fatal error, by either over committing a strike of injuring oneself.
2. Carrying options: While for utility axes means of carrying is not a big issue for tomahawks and other axes designed for combating adversaries other than logs bringing then into action quickly is often a problem. Their sheaths are designed for keeping the blade away from fleshy parts of the wearer, not for quick draw and combat, this may be a fatal flaw in a life or death situation.
While the ax has many uses, it pure utility aspect will make it part of many kits. However, as a combat tool, perhaps there still lies pieces of it that require refinement before it becomes a mainstay of firstline combat kits.
Comments (185)
trenton on 04 Jun 2010 at 9:00 pm #
eh the hand ax not the huge ax is good uou can throw it and swing it i have one myself
HMPlatinum on 05 Jun 2010 at 1:25 pm #
What’s not to like?
I’m not into throwing a perfectly good weapon away (you may not be able to retrieve it after the zombie walks away with it embedded in his forehead…not quite deep enough to destroy the brain), but it IS a good weapon for close in. A zombie can’t grab you with it’s hand lopped off.
But that can be done with a machete, without the need for such precision aiming.
Knife vs Axe when the non-zombie threat attacks? A totally different argument.
Knife vs Axe when the zombies attack? If I have a fighting axe, a combat-designed weapon, the axe everytime (after the ammo runs out). The ol’ woodchopper I have out back? The added weight of the head almost makes removing the metal and using the handle as a club worthwhile.
A combat-designed weapon, though derived from the workman’s tool, is an entirely different beast to wield than any work or sports product. But regardless of new alloys, they don’t come in “featherlight”, yet.
Here’s to hoping the ammo holds out and I don’t have to resort to hand-to-hand.
3ID on 05 Jun 2010 at 2:00 pm #
The AX i carry one in my kit more like a tomahawk but for me it is a very effective tool
fatloserboi on 05 Jun 2010 at 2:49 pm #
a hand axe isn’t too heavy and you can double fist it for double damage…
I just don’t like the range of a hand axe…
McLuvin on 05 Jun 2010 at 4:28 pm #
A hand axe is too heavy if you are required to use it for any length of time. It is a very effective weapon but shines more as a multi-purpose tool as stated in the article. The design of the blade or spike on a tomahawk are designed to puncture more than cut. This is great for getting to brain tissue but terrible if it gets wedged in the skull. The small edge of a hand axe could suffer from this as well. I will keep a tomahawk in my kit for its many virtues but not as my primary melee weapon. That duty goes to a Spyderco Forrester.
McLuvin on 05 Jun 2010 at 4:31 pm #
A full size axe is out of the question unless it’s the only thing available. The weight is way to much to control effectively and the effort needed will tire you out in minutes. I would rather have an axe handle than a full size axe in close quarters fighting.
Ronin666 on 06 Jun 2010 at 5:52 am #
Google Nemesis L-Max :) great anti-zed tommy and all round axe.
I have a couple of short bearded axes as well that would do very nicely, I can shave hair with one of them.
I’m waiting on an SA Wetterlings 18inch axe atm.
Um, yea, I like axes :)
http REMOVE://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/Dedman/axes-2.jpg
try pasting that into a browser and taking out the word remove.
Angryvikingman on 06 Jun 2010 at 9:41 pm #
If you want a great, light axe with an insane amount of cutting surface, the ability to become razor sharp, and it be the least likely of all other axes to get stuck in a walking corpse, then you have to find a sawmll. Generally they will have a large saw cab that moves a giant band saw to cut up logs. They will have a few of the large band saws on hand as replacements. These are generally about 1/4 inch thick and make great blades for knives and large machetes. They will also have cutting torches there. Cut out a nice chunk of the bandsaw and rough cut it to the shape you want. Fine tune the shape and put a good chopping edge on it. Then affix it to a hickory sledge hammer handle. Don’t bother trying to bend the metal around the handle, just cut holes and slide it in. Then make some metal lames to go on the sides and bolt it all into place. It will be about 3 lbs and easier to swing than a dead cat.
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 12:03 am #
A hand ax is a good part of your kit, but:
1. You are obviously too close to a zombie… Who cleared this room???
2. Did you remember to put on your eye protection and are you either wearing something covering your mouth or so well conditioned you don’t start sucking wind through your open mouth slinging that steel? Because you’re going to get covered with back spatter from all that whackin and hackin.
3. You are all approaching this with such a cavalier attitude. A level 5 CDC contagion would be handled with a positive pressure self contained clean suit within a vault with air locks and chlorine decontamination sprays…and you gentlemen want to hack infected flesh within arms length of something more contagious than anything that has ever affected mankind?
So, definitely have a hand ax in your kit, but flee and fight on your terms, this isn’t freaking Braveheart.
McLuvin on 07 Jun 2010 at 12:14 am #
Docwade, you don’t need to worry about infection as long as you wear your level 27 great cloak of invulnerability.
Also, don’t worry about the stamina of most zombie hunters. They have proven their fortitude with 16 hour marathon Call of Duty sessions.
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 12:16 am #
No glove, no love…or zombie head smashing.
Ronin666 on 07 Jun 2010 at 1:57 am #
Doc, you don’t watch enough movies. Zed virus isn’t spread through the air, only by direct contact through an open wound or orifice. So it’s like AIDS, keep it covered, keep it safe.
And I’m only being cavalier if I get the hat that goes with it :P
Angryvikingman on 07 Jun 2010 at 12:32 pm #
@ Mcluvin Big words for someone NOT attending Z.A.C. T.A.C.T. where we will be proving our mettle. I may play call of duty, but I also do ”run and guns” as well as play paintball, and shoot every chance I get. I cant wait for all of you guys to see the videos and pictures we’re gonna post.
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 1:11 pm #
Ronin666, I know how it’s supposed to spread. You can avoid back spatter if you are wailing on a relatively wet piece of meat. It’s going to get in your eyes and mouth if they aren’t covered.
A better point would be, do you want to risk getting infected because you decided to engage a zombie with a short range ,hand held weapon, and a tiny particle of blood — possibly as small as to be aerosolized and inhaled from your bashing antics, infects you?
McLuvin on 07 Jun 2010 at 2:01 pm #
Yup, I’m not going to Z.A.C.T.A.C.T. I guess I won’t be able to “prove my mettle” by driving 1000 miles to shoot with some strangers in a field. How will I live with myself knowing that keyboard warriors doubt my abilities.
Mcbwaa on 07 Jun 2010 at 2:04 pm #
I L00000VE THIS SITE.
/on topic
I have read almost every post on this website and I have come to know that many of you are “handy” or “survivalists”. I, on the other hand am not. I have no practical skills that would help me in the electricity-less wastelands of tomorrow. I know that I would have a very low chance of survival for any length of time but then again I have ran through countless scenarios with barricading my house. It would take an army to get in here. Home Alone style antics should save me ;).
After leaving my house I would probably take the biggest axe I could find or anything long/sharp(in my head I’m thinking that I would spin really fast with my arms outstretched so I would become a human blender). Maybe not the SMARTEST idea but thats about as far as my combat training goes, though this might do more damage then just a straight hacknslash approach since your not throwing all your energy into each swing. right?
P.S. Anyone here play L4D/L4D2 or any other zombie game?
3ID on 07 Jun 2010 at 4:01 pm #
@Docwade
1. You are obviously too close to a zombie… Who cleared this room???
well i hope you would have that is the the definition of CQB/CQC you cant just go willy nilly in to a building in a level whatever outbreak and think it is clear dumbass
@McLuvin
i did not you played World of Warcraft that would explain all the weird post times but congrats on the hobby its a life waster. well about doubting ability’s who knows you could be Chris Costa or some 47 year old pedophilia that lives in his moms basement but ZACTACT to me it is just a way to meet fellow zombie hunters and talk shop on kits and strategies but if you see it as any thing else that your problem it not like you weren’t invited
@Ronin666
yes AIDs is very bad
@Mcbwaa
you totally forgot the Chainsaw and the BOOM STICK or get high powered buffer it would help on the hole super spinning concept
PS L4D awesome video game
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 4:28 pm #
3ID,
You have completely missed the point I made. Since I do not have the ability to post in crayon or the time to Photoshop you a flow chart, I must be content with the knowledge that, like the cockroach, you will probably be evolutionarily superior to me through your sheer breeding numbers.
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 4:29 pm #
Yes, that is sad knowledge indeed.
McLuvin on 07 Jun 2010 at 4:38 pm #
How did you know that I was a 47 year old pedophile living in my mom’s basement?
Have you been watching me? Are you with the government?
Those bastards have been keeping tabs on me lately.
You hang around grade school playgrounds every once in a while and you get on everybody’s list.
3ID on 07 Jun 2010 at 6:32 pm #
@ Docwade
well if you had a point to begin with you and me and probably the rest of ZAC missed it unless that point is you like dressing up in bio chem suits witch well to each his own and “your sheer breeding numbers” i guess that means that i get a lot more poontang than you than yeah that is absolutely true you got one out three right.
@McLuvin
yeah i would not show up at ZACTACT either good call
Angryvikingman on 07 Jun 2010 at 7:19 pm #
Question: If zombies are technically dead, then they have no heartbeat, if they have no heartbeat, how can there be arterial spray from wacking them with a melee weapon. A dead animal generally won’t bleed at all if it has been dead for longer than a few hours. At least not from the kinds of wounds a melee weapon would inflict. Blood tends to gel in the veins and only come out when it is warmed. Perhaps on a really hot summer day spray could be a hazard, but its not going to come gushing out of a corpse like it does in the movies. Precautions should be taken, perhaps not pressurized suits, but face shields, gloves, and sanitizer would be a good idea.
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 7:49 pm #
Yep, I definitely wasn’t referring to arterial spray. If coagulated blood is about the consistency of firm jello, and you cleave into a skull one or more times, you areceither going to something along the kines of the cavernous sinus or sigmoid sinus depending on your trajectory. The compression/decompression with cause some spatter. In addition, your weapon will become covered with gore at a rate proportional to it’s use. You cannot stop your hands and knuckles from becoming abraded over time in the field. You want to risk contamination because you want to sling your axe in close combat? I didn’t say I wanted to stroll the light fantastic in a pressurized clean suit, 3ID. The point was that the known contagions that have near 100% communicability and no known cure are studied in environments of incredible caution and precaution. You seem to think that your skills, whatever they may be, make you less likely to become infected. Good luck with that.
P.s. Getting “more poontang” and procreating are two different things. I referred you to the latter while the former is my domain, little boy. Sorry this wasn’t in crayon.
3ID on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:16 pm #
@Docwade
“Getting “more poontang” and procreating are two different things”
First things first if these two are not the same then your probably Homosexual
Second what is up with you and crayon fetish? do they turn you on or does it make you think of the littles boys?
I am sorry Mcluvin i guess we no who the 47 year old dungeon master/ pedophile is so i guess Mcluvin that makes you the later so i a apologizes Chris Costa.
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:27 pm #
Is that your best retort, “You’re gay, you’re a pedophile”? Sounds more like your fasade of heterosexuality is weighing heavily upon you. Had a little rough time in the infantry? You run a little short on cash before the 1st and 15th and have to do some things, but you were young and dumb…but that was last week!
Angryvikingman on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:31 pm #
Hmmm…. As I’ve never split a skull with a melee weapon, I don’t know what would happen. However, I do know that when sawing a deer’s head open to remove the antlers, there is almost no blood. I generally remove the anlters prior to hanging the carcass for skinning so…. I dunno. I still advocate gloves, leather over the top of rubber, or nitrile. Those ”Mechanix” gloves are just about as good as any tactical glove also. For a head covering, I’d suggest an NBC hood from your local military surplus store. The suits are hot as hell and you’ll sweat buckets, but is breathability more important than your life. Although, I’d only use them for patrol in areas that are high risk of close contact. For base patrol and scouting, I’d just wear layers and BDUs.
3ID on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:33 pm #
enough of the Trolling
blood would sink and coagulate in the first six hours in the lower regions of the specimen because there is no blood pressure and there is nothing keeping it up in the head. GRAVITY IS A BITCH!!
then in this case Angry is right you wont need a chem suit a mask and eye pro will do just fine
Semper Cogitant on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:38 pm #
Seriously? This devolved into a gaming discussion? Bummer.
A smallish tomahawk is part of my kit, even when hiking/camping. A very useful tool that can be a good weapon for close combat if needed. A spike on the back is a good way to disable to brain quickly.
It is definitely not a good primary hand to hand weapon. If I’m using that to puncture a zombie skull that means my hand is within inched of a zombie, a situation to be avoided if possible. It is better than a knife as a last ditch weapon though.
One important point brought up is eye protection. Wearing some sort of eye protection – not fogging – is very important, as is some sort of covering over you mouth and nose.
Hand to hand combat is a messy business, weather your hitting zed with a bat, a sword, a fire axe, or any other weapon. A bit is contagious, so the contagion is in the mouth. The contents of the mouth, as well as the rest of the head, can be sprayed or flung in significant quantity, and to a fair distance. I’ll be wearing goggles and face protection whenever I’m out of my shelter.
Oh, I’ll add one good use of the ax/tomahawk for combat. If you are secure for zed, up a tree or behind a wall that you can reach over, and in a situation to conserve ammunition, it might be a good tool, though even then I’d prefer something longer.
Angryvikingman on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:41 pm #
Alright now, keep it civil or I’ll have to use my scary admin powers to edit your posts to proclaim your gay love for one another. Or just delete them entirely. At any rate, keep the gloves above the belt, ”yo mama” jokes to a minimum, and agree to disagree. No one on here really knows the expertise of the others, with few exceptions, so keep it clean, lest you wish that I play dirty.
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:42 pm #
Wasn’t that what I freaking said in my first post??? Eye protection and something to cover your face to decrease exposure risk.
Angryvikingman on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:55 pm #
Yes you did. I was re-iterating your earlier statment and agreeing. 3ID has agreed. Perhaps he just misunderstood and thought you meant a full blown bio-chem suit was necessary. Idk, I’m just making assumptions.
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 9:02 pm #
The ax is just another good tool for the pack. If you are operating from a secure site, you may not have an axe with you, but more likely a crow bar. Again it depends on what your purpose is at the time.
No secure operating site to work from, again, you may or may not have an axe. If you are wanting to be able to cut wood / fabricate rudimentary weapons or defenses, an axe is great, but a good knife and a block of wood to pound the spine with work too, and you spare the weight. I just had a Grayman Merdeka made for me but I would never put it in my kit…it’s too freaking heavy.
If an axe is what I’m using to fight a zed, I’ve done something terribly wrong and placed myself in a compromised situation.
The axe provides me with only a marginal advantage over a zed’s tooth and nail. Note that the zed doesn’t have to kill you right there to finish you. Really, the only advantage the axe has is the speed the user has, and that speed would be better used to avoid or escape.
3ID on 07 Jun 2010 at 9:11 pm #
@Docwade
i rerad your post agree with the 2nd statement but come on dude the first thing you said who cleared this room. this is a little stupid no room no matter how safe you think it is is never safe. and dang dude you cant take a joke take note from Mcluvin he took it in stride you kind of freaked out and i do admit to egging you on hell it was fun but yeah Angryvikingman playing dirty well that would kind of fun guess i have to wait till ZACTACT to see that in person
Docwade on 07 Jun 2010 at 9:18 pm #
The phrase, “who cleared this room” is an inside joke between me and another poster referring to just about any zombie movie where a sweep team calls a room clear, then out of some side closet a zed pops out and wastes the trailing team member.
Angryvikingman on 07 Jun 2010 at 9:36 pm #
Only a week and 3 days till you and Kain show up. I’m going down there to start prep work on monday. Fun, fun, fun! Hopefully I wont be covered in ticks and be burnt to a crisp before everyone gets there. When its all over, I’ll be rocking the meanest farmer’s tan ever! It’ll be 10 glorious days away from work.
Docwade on 08 Jun 2010 at 5:13 pm #
Oh, back on the topic of zero blood pressure. If the zed was turned from a simple bite or less and the circulatory system was intact, there would still be pressure without a heart beat due to the action of the skeletal muscle pump. Your venous return from your legs doesn’t get back to your heart when walking or running by your heart, it gets back there by the pumping action of your major leg muscles against the long bones of the legs. Possible blood flow, granted they are in a hyper coagulable state…but they are also not supposed to be animated either.
3-15 INF on 08 Jun 2010 at 5:25 pm #
My cold steel rifleman’s tomahawk has a 22” handle, is light, has a hammer end on the back side and will definitely not get stuck. t will tear right through the body of a car, decapitate a man with 3 or 4 hits, crush a scull, and can still be used to chop wood or hammer nails to barricade an entryway. It tucks neatly in my molle loops on my crye precision war belt and i can draw it out faster than my handgun. Check one out- theyr’e only 40 bucks!
Ronin666 on 08 Jun 2010 at 9:18 pm #
It’s all well and good to say Mellee weapons are no good and get you too close etc, but I bet if you ran out of ammo or you had a major malfunction in your weapon and someone said “Here’s an axe” you aren’t going to say “No thanks I’ll just stand here and let them bite me.”
Also remember a lot of countries in the world don’t allow private ownership of guns, you better beleive those folks are going to be using. axes, bats, crowbars, anything they can get their hands on.
Docwade on 08 Jun 2010 at 10:18 pm #
Well of course. I definitely wouldn’t turn down an ax if my alternative is nothing. However, since the zombies in question are modeled on the Max Brooks archetype, a pitched battle will cause a flood of zed activity to your doorstep. It’s something about the moan. You get spotted, one moans, and it attracts zed’s for miles. That scenario dictates more of a hit and run approach, not fixed battles.
I feel for those countries that don’t allow ownership of firearms…ok that feeling has passed. Losses in those areas will be astronomical. Of course the percentage of the percentage that survives will probably be skilled with a blade like that guy from ninja assassin.
Mcbwaa on 09 Jun 2010 at 3:32 pm #
The end of the world may not seem like it could be fun in any way but has anyone here thought about creating their own little robot army to combat the flood of undead.
Now obviously to do this one must have basic to pretty good technical knowledge. I don’t know how to build anything other then lego’s but my idea would be to take the engine / blades off a lawnmower and turn it upside down and secure that to a moveable platform, like maybe a go-kart or remote control vehicle of some sort. After everything was in working order bring it to some remote spot away from any living quarters you have setup. SOUND THE HORN!! Now wait for the zombies to come shambling around the corner and VROOM VROOM your little tank of death.
This is a spur of the moment thought I just had and felt I had to share with you gents. I am not sure if this would even work at all but it would be fun as hell if this or something along these lines were put to use in the field against the undead.
Thunderhawk on 09 Jun 2010 at 6:26 pm #
that sounds like the auto axe from fallout 3 which would be highly effective against z’s just think 3 whirling blades of death hold it at head height and boom you have a bunch of severed heads.
Sandos on 10 Jun 2010 at 12:05 am #
I say keep the axe. It can only help. In fact, looking thru history, it was a very successful weapon.
Descentofthedead.com
ThatScoutKid on 11 Jun 2010 at 3:48 am #
happy summer guys! wish i could be at zac tact =(
specially equipped Guardsman on 11 Jun 2010 at 12:25 pm #
While I have a wood ax in the shed and a throwing ax in the weapons bin between the flail and Hungarian fighting stick (doesn’t everyone) It would not be my 1st choice. If I was doing a full up clearance, and for some reason I could not fire, I’m going for the old BUTT STROKE TO THE HEAD/SMASH/SLASH/THRUST SERIES. EXECUTE. and they say bayonet drills have no place in the modern military. If the fit hits the shan while I’m away from Home or the Armory I keep an E-tool and a 6 D-cell mag-light in the truck.
Oh and Gloves, willy-Xs and a bandanna over the face at the bear minimum.
Angryvikingman on 12 Jun 2010 at 2:43 am #
Axe = crap for a primary weapon.
That being said, it is a great complimentary weapon to any knife. For those of you who have seen the movie “The Patriot” you’ll kow what I mean. A hand axe or even a tomahawk is a really really REALLY bad primary weapon. It puts you too close to the intended target, and leaves you vulnerable if it is your only weapon, but if you pair it with a long knife or even a machete, then you can become a whirring cyclone of death. Assuming you were taught how to use them in unison. Like any weapon, the axe requires practice and I don’t know or even speculate that you could ever become a “Master” axeman. Using a poleaxe, maybe, but even that has its limitations. Most of the time throughout history, the axe was used as a weapon to throw the opponent off guard so that you could employ better means to dispatch them. Certain axes were designed to be thrown and would bounce and tumble into the enemy to cause them to be off balance when the real attack came. In summation, axes are fine for multi-tools, but NOT as primary weapons. Not even used in pairs.
Ronin666 on 13 Jun 2010 at 3:28 am #
Yup, it comes down to numbers. Taking on more than two zeds with a melee weapon of any kind would probably not end well for you particularly in a confined space.
However remember history and the many battles fought with nothing else, and these were against healthy thinking humans not slow moving mindless zeds. ( I refuse to beleive in running zeds, they are dead, a virus may be able to get some simple walking skills happening but they aren’t going to run and fight).
So basically while I wouldn’t want to rely on an axe as a primary weapon I would certainly feel comfortable taking one on with a good tommy.
Remember the ammo WILL run out before the zeds do.
Angryvikingman on 13 Jun 2010 at 11:34 am #
@ Ronin
LOL! Run out of ammo? NEVER! I have enough to take out 1/4 of the residents of the town I live in. Population about 60K while college is in session. I know where I can get enough to finish off the rest as well. Also I know for a fact that there at least 10 other people who have ammo stockpiles here in town that dwarf my own in a ridiculous fashion. Of course after ZAC TACT my supply will run down to about 3/4 or 1/2 of what it is now, but I can always resupply. Evidently the ammo shortage has ended as walmart is covered up in ammo. Sorry for derailing, but I feel that its necessary to carry a large supply of ammo. And I feel that everyone else should keep a nominal supply of at least 2-5k rounds.
HMPlatinum on 13 Jun 2010 at 11:36 am #
@Ronin who said “Remember the ammo WILL run out before the zeds do.”
Just have to be ready to change primary weapons. Once I’ve shot up all the .45acp, there’s LOTS of 9mm. Heck, I may even have to resort to shooting .22 shorts (assuming I live to be 80). There are LOTS and LOTS of bullets in the USA. The trick will be living long enough to use it all up.
HMPlatinum on 13 Jun 2010 at 12:03 pm #
@Angry, I agree about the ammo. A greatly misquoted line originally said, “A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.” George Washington, January 8, 1790, First State of the Union Address”
This also falls in line with what one US enemy said, “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.”- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
We have plenty of available ammo (if my family is gone, you guys can have what’s left of mine) in the US. It’s going to be a LOT harder on guncontrol countries. Sorry fellas.
But BackOnTopic: How many licks does it take to get to the center of the zombies brain? One? Two? ….. well, you know the rest. The vid I posted shows penetration with a spike through cheap, thin steel but WOULD one poke be enough? Unless very heavy, one blade chop probably won’t make it. Unless it’s a battle axe (WIDE blade), decapitation will be a three-strike affair, as well.
I think the best use of the axe would be to disable the Z. Lop off a hand, chop the knee, that sort of thing. When the Z is reduced to crawling after you, walk off and get a sledge 8)
But again, hope there’s only one or two.
McLuvin on 13 Jun 2010 at 4:59 pm #
Viking, it sounded like you just said you have around 15,000 rounds of ammo and plan to shoot roughly 3,750-7,500 rounds at Zactact.
Isn’t this just a 2-day event?
The highest round count classes in the country don’t usually exceed 2,000 rounds in a three to four day class. With all the hand-to-hand seminars and skill building exercises you will be hard pressed to shoot anywhere near that many rounds.
HMPlatinum on 13 Jun 2010 at 6:23 pm #
Are you going to be there and count?
Two weeks ago, I went through about 128 rounds in less than 30 minutes. One full WWB and two clips. Had help reloading. Just over 4 rounds per minute. Make it easy 250 an hour….without sharing. 2000 rounds in a day? Easy.
And heaven forbid he go out between classes, or whatever, and shoot for fun. After all, who does THAT?
And, remember, NO SHARING!
So much for, “Back on topic”
Ronin666 on 13 Jun 2010 at 9:04 pm #
You all say there is plenty of ammo in the US, I’m dam sure there is , but is it where YOU are? and accessible? Forever is a long long time, it WILL run out
Angryvikingman on 13 Jun 2010 at 11:41 pm #
@McLuvin
I’m going to be down there the whole week. Kain and 3ID will be there thursday. I assure you, we’re going to be training for the 2 days before everyone shows up so that all of our moves are fluid, and we are 100% in dead aim murder mode for when we show what we are teaching by example. Also, we’re doing skeet shooting in the afternoons just for fun. There goes abut 500-1000rnds of shotgun in a couple afternoons. As for my AR conversion I have 8 mags that hold a total of 200 rounds. I can eat that up in less than 2 or 3 minutes if I’m doing a lot of fast paced multi target shooting. And I have over 20 mags for my AR so, I can chew through ammo so fast it’d make your head spin. I can go through 2000 rounds of ammo in an afternoon of target shooting, and by afternoon, I mean 6 or so hours of practice. That’s the reason I have so much ammo on hand, and I try to keep a steady amount and up it when I have the money.
@Ronin666
12 miles from me is the Outpost Armory. They literally have pallets of ammo stacked 4-5 feet high. These consist of 9mm, .45acp, .40S&W, Lake city .223/5.56 ammo, and wolf .223 as well as 500 round cartons of defensive ammo lining the walls and behind the counter. Immediately behind this gun store is the Barrett rifles manufacturing facility, and they also produce their own ammo. Also in my hometown is On Target (4 miles away) where they have large stacks of 500rnd cases in their store room and the owner told me that he has over 10k rounds of just .308 sitting in his house, not to mention ammo for all of the other calibers he owns. Thats not counting the 2 walmarts, that are currently covered up in ammo at the moment. 30 minutes a truck (or my wife’s van)and I can have enough ammo to make charlton heston’s corpse green with envy. I’d have enough to clean out the whole town, and begin to sweep the surrounding areas for survivors. Hell, I was counting and one walmart had right at 20k rounds of 22lr just on the shelf, I’m assuming that there might be some left in the hold cage in the back. We always had a little when I worked there in my early 20s, and by a little I meant several of the 6 box cases of the 550rnd bulk ammo. There was about 2k in .223 on the shelf as well, and many 100 round value packs of #8 12ga and 20ga shotgun shells and lots of 9mm, .45, and .40S&W. That walmart is 400 yards(as the crow flies) from my front door. I know this all seems a little ridiculous, but I like to keep track of what I can get my hands on in as little time as possible, and I make rounds to places in town about every other week just to know what they have. When the SHTF I’ve got a vague plan as to what I’m going for first depending on what type of threat I’ll be facing.
Angryvikingman on 13 Jun 2010 at 11:52 pm #
Yes, I’m leaving for the zac tact location tomorrow after my wife’s appointment at the pregger Dr.’s and a quick hair cut. Then its off to wonderful, scenic, Alabama where I’ll spend 2 days mowing and felling trees, cutting firewood, and preparing the shooting ranges for the event. You people who aren’t coming really are missing out on some fun. Looks as though we’re gonna have a higher number of women there than men, if only by a couple. Seems a little odd that there are so many weapon toting females out there. Especially ones interested in this sort of thing. Oh well, maybe the videos I post of them shooting will get yall’s asses in gear to come out next year.
McLuvin on 14 Jun 2010 at 1:57 am #
@HMPlatinum, Shooting 128 rounds in a half hour with help reloading is a far cry from shooting 2,000 rounds in a day. I realize it seems easy to extrapolate the fire rate to get to 2,000. However, if you ever spend a day actually loading and shooting hundreds upon hundreds of rounds you will find that the blisters on your loading thumb and trigger finger take the fun out of it pretty quick.
@Viking, as I stated, with all your responsibilities of setting everything up and actually running seminars, exhibitions, etc. it seems you will be a little busy to shoot up 4,000+ rounds of ammo.
From your response post I see you plan to waste a ton of ammo doing mag dumps out of your AR and conversion. That hardly constitutes “training”. Also, 500-1,000 rounds of skeet shooting over a couple afternoons is olympic practice levels of shooting not relaxed “just for fun” blasting.
I don’t question that you are an avid shooter or that you will expend a ton of ammo during the week of zactact, but I do question your round count estimates. I think you are either exaggerating or accounting for the ammo consumption of the whole group.
Angryvikingman on 14 Jun 2010 at 11:43 am #
@McLuvin Before I ever dreamed of having a gun with a magazine, I had a single shot lever action .22 and I used to shoot 1000 rounds in an afternoon of target practice with that. I routinely shot up to 500rnds in a session when I was younger than 10. My father insisted that I practice with my rifle constantly. Now, as an adult, with all kinds of toys at my disposal, I do a lot more shooting. I rarely just do a mag dump for the hell of it. Doing a decent run and gun course of fire, I will expend 6 mags @ 25rnds of .22 in a couple minutes taking plenty of time to aim and hit my target. Even doing a mag dump while shooting a metal plate, I can put every single round on target. In a week of shooting even just 500rnds a day, that’d still be 3k rnds. If I loaded down all of my .22s and fired them, then I’d have fired right at 400 rounds, then 10 minutes to reload, and fire again. Thats with zero mag dumps. As for shotgun, between myself, Kain, and 3ID shooting skeet a couple of afternoons, 500+rnds of shotgun ammo will go pretty dang fast. The actual participants will only fire around 500rnds during the training. Its not gonna be an ammo hose kind of thing. I’m gonna show them some basic shooting drills, and have them practice and focus on fundamentals. Keep in mind that as fas as the normal shooter is concerned, these are advanced techniques, but are basic for people who shoot for a living, or retards like me that just like to do this for fun.
john-wayne on 15 Jun 2010 at 11:10 am #
Rambo come’s to mind here.
McLuvin on 16 Jun 2010 at 1:29 am #
I see you are counting the ammo you and Kain and 3ID are going to shoot.
That makes more sense.
A 150 round course of fire is a hell of a long course!
jay on 16 Jun 2010 at 3:12 am #
sounds like a lot of ammo being used
Angryvikingman on 16 Jun 2010 at 7:52 am #
Yeah, just for the shotgun anyway, although now I’ll be shooting all by myself. Seems everyone that had given me a firm commitment to show up bailed. Seems like it all happened almost in a few hours yesterday. Either through phone calls, texts, or emails, but everyone bailed on me. Everyone. Some had legitimate reasons, and I understand them, but some people just fobbed it off like it was nothing. I was just really disheartened by the entire series of events. I doubt that I will try and host anything of this sort ever again. Given the length of time people had to prepare, and the expense that I went through to set this up, I won’t undergo this sort of humiliation again. As I mentioned on my facebook page, next time I want to spend 500+ dollars on a weeknd of shooting, I’ll got to a Frontsite or Blackwater class. At least there will be other people there.
McLuvin on 16 Jun 2010 at 10:29 am #
Sorry to hear that everyone bailed. That’s really shitty. Since you already have the campsite ready maybe you can convince your wife to go camping for the weekend. Try to get some use out of the work you put in. I was looking forward to pics and stories.
Ronin666 on 16 Jun 2010 at 5:02 pm #
dam that sucks dude.
And people ask me why I don’t plan on saving people on Zed day. Now you know.
specially equipped Guardsman on 16 Jun 2010 at 5:24 pm #
Sorry to hear that man. I really wanted to go next year. Maybe you should ask for a deposit next time, to cover your expenses. People are less likely to walk away at the last minute if the have an investment already. I wouldn’t begrudge you $30 to $50 for running something like this, not if I was going to be traveling across several states to get there anyway.
Semper Cogitant on 16 Jun 2010 at 5:39 pm #
@Angry- That sucks, sounded like it would be a fun time. Really bad form for folks to sign up for that then bail. Those that committed and flaked ought to defray your costs.
Angryvikingman on 16 Jun 2010 at 5:55 pm #
I’ll consider doing it again, but yeah I’ll definately charge a deposit, and when people show up I’ll give it back. I won’t really have to re-buy anything but ammo for myself, since obviously I didn’t use anything I bought this year. I really haven’t gone through much of that. About 1k of 22lr, 10 shotgun rnds, and a box of .380 ammo. I may shoot a little more today before dark seeing as how I’m gonna head home tomorrow morning. All I have to say is”Dear Lord, thank you for 40 percent DEET bugspray and battery powered fans.”
HMPlatinum on 16 Jun 2010 at 7:59 pm #
If bugs hunt by infrared…how can they find us with it’s over 98.6 degrees?
I call insect BS.
Docwade on 16 Jun 2010 at 8:07 pm #
That IS some serious BS for people to bail like that.
Angryvikingman on 16 Jun 2010 at 10:34 pm #
Maybe they see infrared like the predator does.
specially equipped Guardsman on 17 Jun 2010 at 4:54 am #
@HMPlatinum Unless the ambient temperature matches your body temp to within the tolerances of the system (a FLIR, a thermal sight, A Bugs eye) you still show up on IR. You just appear to be cooler rather then hotter.
Angryvikingman on 17 Jun 2010 at 1:53 pm #
Whew! Nice to be back home where I have real internets and not just my dang phone. Now I can take out my frustrations on Modern Warfare 2, if only I’d have seen some rabbits or something. I really wanted some rabbit while I was down there. Sigh, guess I’ll have to call my buddy’s mom who raises them or go to the arab market in nashville, although the latter option I don’t get to kill it myself. Yes, I’m a twisted individual. Must be the native american in me, plus I know how fresh it is if I’m the one who killed it. Guess I can always go to my friends and get some of my chickens this weekend. Sigh.
Angryvikingman on 17 Jun 2010 at 1:54 pm #
So that that whole thing doesnt derail the topic, I may use my rothco axe to behead the chickens. LOL!
bioengineering guy on 17 Jun 2010 at 2:21 pm #
So there seems to be some debate whether there would be splatter if you attacked a zombie with an ax. I believe the answer would be yes. First of all, after having worked with human tissue and have seen people work with human tissue (for medical research), there is always splatter when cutting into tissue. That is why you see medical researchers wearing lab coats, face masks, disposable aprons, and goggles when working with tissue. I have seen doctors with splatter on them after working on a cadaver or a leg/arm/shoulder from a cadaver. I can only imagine how much splatter you would get on you in a fight with a zombie. Also, a zombie would/may be in some state of decay. Decaying tissue splatters when you cut into it (more so when you do it recklessly). I remember cutting into a deer skull as a kid and getting decayed brains all over the place. Also, cutting into a bloated animal carcass splatters, I can only imagine what slicing into a bloated zombie belly filled with human flesh would do. It would therefore be very beneficial to wear some kind of protection over your face to prevent inhaling the tissue spatter when fighting zombies. Plus it would help cover the smell, old decaying human tissue has a very distinct and very bad smell.
HMPlatinum on 17 Jun 2010 at 3:48 pm #
@McLuvin: Good point about the reload blisters, but that’s the point of help. It allows you to wear everyone’s thumb out.
@Spec. Equip. Guardsman: I know. It was intended as humor. A distraction, if you will.
@Angry: Did you really want to eat summer-roasted rabbit with tick-sauce? Or just looking to terminate something small and fuzzy?
Use hand-to-hand techniques on chickens or rabbits for frustration relief…just don’t expect to eat it later. And, back on topic, using and axe will really mess them up.
Let the chickens run around loose and try to behead them with a ‘hawk. You can practice precision chopping that way!
Angryvikingman on 17 Jun 2010 at 4:16 pm #
@HMPlatinum: The ticks come off with the skin, so no biggie. I subsisted off of a mainly wild game diet growing up because we were poor and my dad loved to hunt, so rabbit, deer, squirrel, quail, ect were common staples in my house, even out of season. As to venting frustration, I don’t kill it unless I’m gonna eat it. And mangling it would exclude the eating part. As to killing chickens with the axe, I drive a nail in a stump, then tie their legs to it with paracord so I dont have to chase down the corpse. If I was going to ”precision chop” then I’d use my kukri.
jay on 18 Jun 2010 at 3:48 am #
thats proppa shitty man ppl bailing on ya well there the ones missing out mate
HMPlatinum on 18 Jun 2010 at 1:12 pm #
@Angry: I grew up the same way, but we generally avoided game in the heat of the summer (unless it came from the freezer), but I have had the occasional fresh venison a few months early. I’ve butchered plenty of fowl in my time, but always handheld the legs.
I’ve never swung a kukri, but the blade length (8″?) leaves a lot of margin-for-error for “precision” IMHO. Maybe a little blade work with one would change my mind, idk. Having looked at them, however, I’d be tempted to take one over the machete, and axe. I’ll have to try one out.
Docwade on 18 Jun 2010 at 6:39 pm #
Angryvikingman, do you play on xbox? If so, can I get your user name?
I like shooting fa too, though I feel it has limited utility unless there’s a trench or a room you just have to enter with no background info. We still run steel plates faster than the guys running their mp5′s, thompsons, Uzi’s, and the liken full auto against our semi 9mm ar’s and beretta storm carbines. I know you said it’s your second time shooting the Thompson, but unless you intend to carry a bench around with you to lean on when the shtf, any measure of accuracy leaning on that stall bench just doesn’t count.
Angryvikingman on 18 Jun 2010 at 9:50 pm #
Yeah, I play xbox. Gamer tag is oddly enough Angryvikingman. I play MW2, W@W, and Borderlands. As for needing the bench, I don’t I was just using it out of habit. If you watch the Gunz and Fun video you’ll see I don’t move at all when firing my .308 which has more kick than the Thompson, and I dumped a full 20 round out of that HK of mine. When you add me, just tell me its you.
McLuvin on 18 Jun 2010 at 10:46 pm #
On Gunz and fun it looks like your buddy has very little experience shooting a handgun. He is leaning back and the recoil knocks him off balance. He actually takes a few steps back behind you guys. It is especially odd because from your description he was shooting the .22.
Angryvikingman on 19 Jun 2010 at 3:39 am #
Adam, the guy shooting the pistol, I’m sure he’d had way too much to drink that day as he was an alchoholic, so thats what could have put him offf balance. IDK.
Docwade on 19 Jun 2010 at 10:24 am #
Well that’s comforting.
Angryvikingman on 19 Jun 2010 at 1:47 pm #
Thats why he had the smallest gun, and I wasnt standing next to him.
Thunderhawk on 20 Jun 2010 at 6:37 pm #
Strange how t can change from an axe discussion to being about shooting full-auto. in either case i would take standard work hammer over an axe anyday, because its a hammer you could simply crush the skull, or drive nails with it.
Docwade on 20 Jun 2010 at 7:18 pm #
How about an axe with a hammer opposite the blade, best of both?
McLuvin on 20 Jun 2010 at 8:31 pm #
Drywall hammer would be a good all around tool/weapon. Good call Docwade.
Angryvikingman on 20 Jun 2010 at 8:56 pm #
Rifleman’s hawk from cold steel fits that bill.
McLuvin on 20 Jun 2010 at 10:15 pm #
Cold Steel is always good for an obscure weapon. I love some of their stuff.
Angryvikingman on 21 Jun 2010 at 12:12 pm #
@Thatscoutkid
By the time you spend money on that, you could have gotten a 1 foot stanley crowbar and a cold steel rifleman’s hawk and saved $30 even after shipping. A 1 foot crowbar will open just about any kind of door, even a steel security door, it’d just take a little work. I don’t mean the hexagonal type, but the flat ones that are most commonly used for roofing. Just slip it in the door jamb under the door latch and one good kick and its open. The hawk will do lots of other jobs too. With the bladed end on that fubar, you’re like ly to swing it and possibly hurt yourself, and dying from a dummy wound is the most embarassing way to go.
Docwade on 21 Jun 2010 at 8:22 pm #
I like that wrecking tool.
Angryvikingman on 22 Jun 2010 at 12:45 am #
As a wrecking tool, yes, its great. As a tool to carry in the zombiepocalypse, I think not. Like I said, the blade end is too sharp and would pose a significant risk of self injury. At least I know I could possibly hurt myself with it because I can be clumsy like that. I’m sure when you’re in a fury, fighting for your life, you could cut yourself, then in goes the zombie blood, and OOPS! you become one.
Semper Cogitant on 22 Jun 2010 at 10:50 am #
That wrecking bar, or a halligan bar, or something similar would be handy, but not as a primary hand to hand weapon. Carrying something like that would be extra weight for limited use, I might consider it in an urban area, but I’d avoid an urban area if at all possible.
I think as a tool I’d prefer a nice light tomahawk/axe. If you don’t mind the extra weight tools like this are fine.
Docwade on 22 Jun 2010 at 1:35 pm #
People keep throwing around the qualifier, “primary” related to weapon. My primary weapon will most definitely not be an edged or bludgeoning instrument. You guys keep thing your hell & Jesus with primitive weapons. I doubt more than 1% have used a tomahawk on anything more than a tree or fence post, carried more than a thirty pound rucksack more than ten miles, or done more than a little aimed shooting in the backyard or range.
The point is, maybe 3-5 years in, your hold out spot is going to be exhausted of supplies, the surroundings may also be exhausted. You may need to relocate and you’re going to be carrying everything you have. Between a crowbar (small) and tomahawk, I would choose crowbar. Between fighting and risking infection versus movement and concealment, I choose movement and concealment. If you are at arms length of a zed, you have screwed the F up. Move and establish a fight on your terms, not a reactionary encounter.
Angryvikingman on 22 Jun 2010 at 11:40 pm #
I could be mistaken, but I never said primary. Yes, Semper did, but I digress. That particular FUBAR is a little big. The smaller versions may be a great tool. Some people need to realize that most of what you carry will have to possibly double as a weapon at some point, with a few exceptions. I particularly don’t care for anything that will make noise while I’m using it. Thats why I carry a variety of tools in my pack. I have small bolt cutters, wire clippers, a file set that ranges from large to jeweler’s size, a folding limb saw, 3 pocket knives (2 for general use and 1 serrated karambit), pliers, allen wrenches, a small adjustable wrench, a couple of regular wrenches, a screwdriver with changable bits, a flash light with extra batteries, my 1 foot flat crowbar, and a hammer. Its all in a small camo backpack that will fit inside the top pouch of my ALICE pack with room to spare. weighs in at around 7 lbs. I call it my burglar kit. LOL! If I can’t get it open with whats in that bag, then its not likely to open without a cutting torch.
As for the tomahawk, I’ve never used one except for target throwing. However, I have used my hatchet to cleave and quarter animals out in the field, and carry them back to the car in my Alice pack. And I carried my fair share of heavy packs over 10 miles. Hell, when I was in scouts I carried the damn thing on all kinds of hikes. Winter camporee at Chickamauga we always did a few 10 mile hikes. I think I still have the patch for the 25 miler, but I didn’t do all of that with a pack. I’d say 90% was a walking stick and a poncho that covered a school back pack that had a change of clothes and some ramen with a mess kit. We took turns carrying the 2 man dome tents we took on the trail. It always rained there for some reason. As for the shooting, I’ve been a hunter my whole life, and have no problems killing to fill my belly. Yes, its a rush when you pull that trigger as you draw down on bambi or thumper, but if you practice at the range, then you’ll do fine hunting. People, I imagine, are a different story though.
ThatScoutKid on 23 Jun 2010 at 3:47 am #
I already have both of those plus a three foot hexagonal type. just thought it would be handy to use the thing you breached the door with to kill the zombie two feet away from the door instead of having to switch quickly to another weapon. every second counts right?
ThatScoutKid on 23 Jun 2010 at 3:57 am #
@docwade
i doubt many people plan on using a melee weapon as a primary because they feel high and mighty about it. more likely that they do it because they know that there will always be less ammo then zombies and because they are comfortable with it. and noise is bad near zombies
guns = noise if you didnt know…
3-15 INF on 23 Jun 2010 at 9:01 am #
I have carried my rifleman’s hawk on three deployments to Iraq and have it slid in the molle straps on my blast belt right now, ready for my second trip to afghanistan. It’s easy to slide out for intant use, can easily chop through medium size limbs, and i can use the hammer side to hammer in nails or use with a small punch to knock out mouse holes in walls for hide construction. It’s very durable, usefull, has a 20″ reach and reasonably light. In conjunction with a machette and E-tool, I can do alot. Plus, none of these tools is overly heavy or expensive. You can carry all for less than 6 lbs and 100 bucks.
Docwade on 23 Jun 2010 at 2:48 pm #
guns make noise??? Whaaaaaat? Say it ain’t so!
HMPlatinum on 23 Jun 2010 at 6:28 pm #
There are ways to fix that.
Legality shouldn’t be much of an issue by then.
Angryvikingman on 23 Jun 2010 at 7:22 pm #
I don’t mind doing some ATF paperwork to have quiet guns. Do it before the zombiepocalypse I say!
McLuvin on 23 Jun 2010 at 8:09 pm #
I have two guns threaded for suppressors but haven’t done the legwork yet. I’m having a hard time putting my name on the short list with the current administration.
Docwade on 23 Jun 2010 at 10:10 pm #
They already know who you are by your weird taste in revolvers…short list / short bus, what’s the diff?
Angryvikingman on 23 Jun 2010 at 10:24 pm #
I’m contemplating getting a supressor for my AR as an xmas present to myself. Only took 3 months for the paperwork to come back on my last one. It helps to have a good gun shop backing you, and a sherriff who is friendly to the gun nuts. Luckily I have both.
McLuvin on 23 Jun 2010 at 11:56 pm #
Just because they require skill doesn’t make them weird.
My mommy said I got to ride the short bus cuz I’m special.
Sharpshooter on 26 Jun 2010 at 11:56 am #
I have a hatchet that can be used with one or two hands depending on the need. It looks a little funny though, yet has an almost infinite amount of uses.
HMPlatinum on 27 Jun 2010 at 10:29 am #
@Angry: I agree. I have no problem with filling out legal paperwork for my legal purchase and legal use of firearms or accessories. After Day One, however, I’ll not be so inclined to sign on the dotted line.
@Sharpshooter: A hand-and-a-half axe? What kind of head does it have?
jay on 27 Jun 2010 at 2:47 pm #
started stock piling my shotgun shells got about 3k so far need more lol
wheelgunner on 29 Jun 2010 at 5:43 pm #
Those cold steel rifleman hawks don’t always work the way you think they will. I got in a knife fight with a buddy of mine once, and he grabbed one of mine that was at hand. He hit me n the hand with it. All I have to show for it is a half inch scar bout as wide as a straw in the center of my hand.
Like the ghetto ass saw-blade ax. Good steel.
One thing on the splatter arguement I haven’t seen commented on yet. If you are in a group, or even near other survivors in melee combat, the risk of splatter coming from them infecting you increases exponentually in a hurry.
Plus, if things get that close with live opponents, lingering std and comunticable disease spread is just as dangerous as z-virus infection, if less undead and more time consumingly painfull.
HMPlatinum on 30 Jun 2010 at 5:48 am #
Not to mention skill, or lack thereof:
Who wants to be standing next to an amateur Gimli in full swing?
3-15 INF on 01 Jul 2010 at 10:16 am #
You have to sharpen a blade- you shouldn’t expect it to be razor sharp out of the box. When you got in the ‘knife fight’ with your buddy, was he trying to kill you? If not, the story isn’t all that relavent.
And yes, about a million have commented on splatter.
Angryvikingman on 02 Jul 2010 at 7:28 am #
You have to sharpen in 3 phases to get an axe blade really sharp anyway. Profile the bevel down with a bastard file,(yes, thats the proper name for the type of file) then use a less course file, then coarse sharpening stone. You dont want it to be razor sharp, because you’ll dull the cutting edge too easily and damage the blade.
wheelgunner on 05 Jul 2010 at 12:43 am #
Yes, I am familiar with how to properly sharpen and care for axes and other bladed instruments. I’m from a rural area, and sometimes you really live or die by those types of things. Thanks for the step-by-step tho.
@ 3-15 – yes, the “buddy” in question was trying his best to seperate me n my mortal self from one another in the fight mentioned. Scored a cheap blow when I was trying to calm him down. I ended up dodging around n whopping him with a stick until he came to his senses. Luckily, the Riflemens Hawk’s have a rather large head that make them slightly unwieldy in true hand-to-hand combat.
@ HMPlatinum – If you are referencng my freind with the Gemli comment, he asn’t as unskilled as your thinking. Fights like that are something of a pass time around here, kind of like ghetto deuling as a sport. N yes, we have seen more than our share of hospital rooms and first aid kits. Some of these guys really know what they are doing. That particular fellow was unpredictable and semi-succidal, and prefered to attack berserker style. Pretty good fighter for all of that. Still, I second not standing too close to one if you can help it.
McLuvin on 05 Jul 2010 at 2:09 am #
@Wheelgunner
I would strongly suggest that you re-evaluate your group of friends if knife fights are a common theme.
wheelgunner on 05 Jul 2010 at 2:22 am #
@ McLuvin
I have. Thanks for the advice. It’s not just my friends. The area is like that. Bout half, three quaters of my graduating class is dead or in jail for killing them. Great state.
Angryvikingman on 05 Jul 2010 at 1:20 pm #
Now, we used to box in the back yard, but we had gloves. Even when we were pissed, we still used the gloves. Yes, we still beat each other bloody. We never got pissed enough to grab weapons.
McLuvin on 05 Jul 2010 at 1:44 pm #
Where the hell are you from, Sierra Leone?
wheelgunner on 05 Jul 2010 at 5:04 pm #
North Louisiana. Per capita, some of the worst drug territory in the U.S., beleive it or not. Drugs n martial arts movies/myths are a potent mix. All four years I was in high school, there was an annul week ever spring were anyone with a grudge came to school(yeah, school) to shoot it out. Cops camped out at school for a week, n every year they got kids. We still…street fight in whoevers yard we are in when we get bored, or if there are anything resembling a weapon laying around, they square off with them. Yard rakes are excellent against katanas, fyi.
McLuvin on 06 Jul 2010 at 1:01 am #
So you guys have a publicized week to shoot eachother at school and have real fights in your yards with katanas and rakes. I have to call B.S. on this. I don’t believe that you could get an entire population to be so inbred and ignorant to live like that. Anyone with half a brain would extricate themselves from that situation post haste. The rest would quickly die off from terrible rake injuries and civilization could reclaim the land.
Angryvikingman on 06 Jul 2010 at 2:56 am #
Undoubtedly you’ve never heard of Compton California. You’d think that that kind of continuous violence would kill them all off, but they breed early, often, and with many mates. Sometimes by force, thus ensuring the continuation of their species. Excuse my lack of sympathy for people who refuse to better themselves.
McLuvin on 06 Jul 2010 at 3:51 am #
Even Compton doesn’t have 3/4 of it’s graduating class either dead or in jail. And I can almost guarantee there aren’t frequent katana/rake fights to the death. Dumb gangbangers even know better than to arrange for everybody to shoot eachother on a certain day at school. They know it’s better to just arrange it with their own side and forget to tell the other team.
I stand by my B.S. ruling.
jay on 06 Jul 2010 at 6:18 am #
way off topic
Angryvikingman on 06 Jul 2010 at 11:28 am #
Write something out, send it to the contact email. If the Admin doesn’t think it sucks, then he’ll post it.
jay on 06 Jul 2010 at 11:50 am #
it aint upto me to write anything out i just read and comment.
HMPlatinum on 07 Jul 2010 at 7:11 pm #
@wheelgunner: The Gimli comment was not directed at anyone. What people choose to do to themselves in their own backyards is their own business.
I’ve fought plenty of SCA tournies and melees with sword and axe.
True, not 100% realistic, but I’ll be happy to throw down with any amateur or street fighter with those weapons. Throw in some MA training, USMC training, and the training I did/do to amuse myself… I do happen to know a little about armed and unarmed HTH combat.
From experience, with any weapon, standing near someone swinging/slinging/shooting wild in a CONTROLLED environment can be deadly…now throw in a whoppin shot of adrenaline and a few hungry shufflers and the Amazing Amateur Tornado of Death will not discriminate betwixt foe, or friend.
wheelgunner on 08 Jul 2010 at 12:51 am #
Amen HM.
Just to throw this out there, since topics of discussion seem to be up grabs, why not do one on what you could use for zed melee combat, like armor n such that you could use n come out alive wearing. Seems to be the way this post has revolved around anyway.
3-15 INF on 08 Jul 2010 at 9:01 am #
read other posts- that’s already been beat to death, so to speak
Im on a wii! on 10 Jul 2010 at 6:00 pm #
Wheelgunner, you from fp?
HMPlatinum on 17 Jul 2010 at 9:43 pm #
@drifter: Piercing the brain is not the same as destroying the brain. I did posit this question regarding the SOG ‘hawk (link above…keep scrolling, it’s up there).
How many licks?
McLuvin on 18 Jul 2010 at 1:14 am #
Drifter do you actually have a RMJ tomahawk? They are pretty pricey. Are you recommending one based on the manufacturer’s claims or your own experience?
wheelgunner on 29 Jul 2010 at 10:29 pm #
@ wii dude. Unfortunately. You post up in my neck of the woods?
-ma-kay-la- on 03 Aug 2010 at 12:50 am #
I would prefer to use a machete, I know I had one, I just have no clue what happened to it. But anyway, this axe issue, I don’t think I’d be able to use one. Well maybe, there is one axe that I can use because it’s light enough for me to split the firewood with, but I probably wouldn’t have enough force to actually kill a zombie. The fact that the axe’s blade is kinda heavy means I would run out of energy like the article said, and that’s why I said I would wanna use a machete. But I’d have a hard time tryin to get my hands one of those. There’s one thing I’m curious about though, can a slingshot have enough force to kill a zombie. I know they’re illegal where I’m at and I’m not sure if there is a state that they’re legal in, but if someone were to use one, would it have enough power to actually kill a zombie?
Thunderhawk on 04 Aug 2010 at 3:26 am #
As far as i know slingshots are legal where i live but that is an interesting question. either way living in one of the safest cities in the state is a downside when it comes to things like this, although there is a fairly large shooting/assorted martial arts place not to far away where i could probably find something
-ma-kay-la- on 05 Aug 2010 at 9:51 pm #
I wouldn’t call where I live a very safe place, but it’s not very dangerous either. Everybody knows everybody because it’s a small town, but that doesn’t stop the fighting that goes on. Still curious about the slingshot deal though, I think it would awesome to kill a zombie that way.
wheelgunner on 10 Aug 2010 at 8:29 pm #
Hey, try hitting a coconut with a sling stone. You get an appropriatly sized target, and if my memory is not as hazy as I fear it is, the same basic consistancy of a skull. You could even see how good you would stack up with the ax, and at the least you could have a snack if all else fails. If you can tie it up and hang it off something, you could swing it and have a ghetto rigged shooting course started.
-ma-kay-la- on 10 Aug 2010 at 8:58 pm #
That sounds pretty interesting. What I did to practice my aim is that I would take some of the butter knives we have and try and see if I can hit a specific place on a tree with it. When I started out I was horrible, and then I got kinda good. But I can’t do that anymore because I lost one and my mom got really mad, so now I have to practice with sticks, which arent very easy to practice with. I would practice with my pocket knife buts its not evenly balanced, or even close to it.
wheelgunner on 10 Aug 2010 at 10:01 pm #
Pocket knives do that. I got a Buck 110 lock blade that I toss around. For the sake of trying to find a better throwing stick, check out an Apache throwing star. It’s an iprovement on oversized toothpicks.
-ma-kay-la- on 11 Aug 2010 at 12:48 am #
Yeah, well they’ll have to do until I can get a real job besides babysitting little brats. Speaking of which, can you imagine a nine month old baby zombie, I can so see that, it would be so fucking hilarious. All you would have to do to kill it would be kick it’s head. At least I think so, I don’t think it would be worth a bullet. Back to the point, an apache throwing star. Seen em, never had em. Wished for one, never happened. Oh well, when I save up enough money I’ll have my dad buy me one. He’s not really a gun nut, but he has his 30-6 and his .22 pistol.
-ma-kay-la- on 11 Aug 2010 at 12:50 am #
Wait, do you know how much it costs for an apache throwing star?
wheelgunner on 11 Aug 2010 at 1:29 am #
Yeah, um, almost nothing. You take two straight sticks between ten and tenty inches, same basic length, and cut a notch in the center of both of them. Put them together in a cross fasion and bind them. Sharpen the ends, fire harden them if you can, and presto, Apache throwing star. Throw it like an ax.
Zombie baby is hilarius. Kudos.
-ma-kay-la- on 11 Aug 2010 at 2:23 am #
I’ll try that. By the way, also try imagining an old grandma zombie. Go to a old folks home to see if old granny is alright and she eats u. Damn, I just thought of something else. A midget zombie! No offense to the short people. I have a really fucked up sense of humor.
wheelgunner on 11 Aug 2010 at 2:42 am #
I would it’s at least borderline. However, I am currently refraining from posting a slue of racist zombie jokes brought on by your comments. So, I suppose it is a matter of perspective, no?
wheelgunner on 11 Aug 2010 at 2:42 am #
*I would say it’s at least borderline
-ma-kay-la- on 11 Aug 2010 at 12:21 pm #
If your refering to me, I wouldn’t care if you posted your jokes, but other people might.
Angryvikingman on 11 Aug 2010 at 1:10 pm #
Well, we try to keep it as clean as we can. Share them over email if you must, I don’t want people to point to us and say we espouse racism. That being said I grew up in the town where the KKK was founded… Its not as though other races don’t have “white” jokes about us “honkies”. I try to keep an open mind and make a determination about each person on a case by case basis. I have some very good friends that are black, but there are stereotypes for a reason.
wheelgunner on 11 Aug 2010 at 2:03 pm #
Yeup. And I’m an equal opportunities racist, because, as the viking said, there are stereotypes for a reason, and a little bad humor goes a long way. But I agree that it would be both impolite and bad form to openly post them. And “honkies” is all that they called you? Your thirty years behinf the good stuff.
-ma-kay-la- on 11 Aug 2010 at 6:09 pm #
I can understand that
wheelgunner on 11 Aug 2010 at 9:47 pm #
More on topic, doesn’t ax qualify as a sharp clup for the function of a weapon? Everyone seems to be treating it like a sword in conversation these days, like it just had a small blade and long hilt. Not pointing out the posters, per say, just a general observation.
-ma-kay-la- on 11 Aug 2010 at 10:40 pm #
I think it qualifies as both, but a hatchet is what qualifies more as a club.
wheelgunner on 11 Aug 2010 at 11:00 pm #
Only because of the size.
I meant in reference to the fact that it is a wedge, so it essentially does crushing force damage with the edge as a focus point, vs a sword, which uses friction to sever the the matter it makes contact with, with crushing damage coming from mass hitting mass energy transfer.
…I think that this arguement makes more sense in my head though. Failings of my English again.
-ma-kay-la- on 12 Aug 2010 at 12:27 am #
Well, it doesnt exactly qualifie as a sword. And it does go under the category of a club better, but since it can be swung around like a sword, it seems to fit in with that group.
-ma-kay-la- on 12 Aug 2010 at 2:54 pm #
I made an apache throwing star. It’s not the best but it works and it hasn’t fallen apart. Now that I look at it I see I could’ve done a better job but that’s ok, I’ll make more. The part I messed up on was cutting the notches in the middle, they weren’t that good, but the tips are fine and the twine I used worked great.
wheelgunner on 12 Aug 2010 at 8:04 pm #
Good. How doees it throw? All my spare wood is either not up to par for making one or too valuable as a spear or practice sword to wast on one.
-ma-kay-la- on 12 Aug 2010 at 10:43 pm #
It throws fine, I learned I can’t throw it the same way I throw knives. I have to throw it a little lower that way it hits the same. BTW. Try using some strong twigs or something to use for a throwing star. I broke a small branch off of a shrub type thing and got a twig that I split in half. That way you don’t have to use any of the wood thats not up for par or have to use any of the valuable wood that you use for spears and so on. Just a suggestion.
wheelgunner on 12 Aug 2010 at 11:14 pm #
Less impact, but sound idea. I may make an exception and try a full size one. Thanks
wheelgunner on 12 Aug 2010 at 11:27 pm #
Would need a poisoning agent on them. I could instruct in one or two, but I need Viking or someone high up to give me the oficial go ahead.
Have you tried a blowgun yet? I dislike them, but if you can use it they are effective.
Angryvikingman on 13 Aug 2010 at 12:13 am #
Write something up and I’ll post it for you. AFTER I go over it with fine comb and fix all the spelling. LOL J/K!
BTW, I love blowguns. Doubt they’d be effective for anything but small game.
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 12:28 am #
Amazonians hunt monkey with them. That equates to goat or small deer at least.
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 12:32 am #
I can’t get the email address to work…
Angryvikingman on 13 Aug 2010 at 12:49 am #
angryvikingman@yahoo.com
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 1:03 am #
Gracias
-ma-kay-la- on 13 Aug 2010 at 1:05 am #
I asked my mom for a paintball blowgun, she said no. Of course.
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 1:14 am #
They do that, alot. All you need is a tube of some sort. Like, a straw with a dart made out of a toothpick with a Q-tip cotton swap ending wrapped around it would work. You could at least learn how to use one. Never breath in after you load it though. Bad ju-ju.
-ma-kay-la- on 13 Aug 2010 at 1:30 am #
Good idea. My friends and I can have tooth pick wars.
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 1:42 am #
Please, be careful. You may not think it, but serius injuries happen like that. Eye balls get put out easy. You ever step on a toothpick? It’ll go clean through your foot and shatter like glass. You can spend months with tiny splinters grinding inside your foot. Trust me. Not fun.
-ma-kay-la- on 13 Aug 2010 at 1:58 am #
Nevermind then, we’ll have q-tip wars, hopefully the q-tip doesn’t get stuck inside the straw.
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 2:09 am #
Cutting off the back wad should help. Also fun, you can take a styrofome cup, and cut a 1 inch slot in the back of it. All the way across. Cut a rubber band and tape it to both sides across the middle, so that it forms a cross over the center of the gap. Then, you can roll up a sheet of paper, tape it shut, and then cut you two inch n a halfish cuts across from each other, and run it through the slot, long end pointing out the mouth of the cup. Fold the cuts over to form flaps, tape to the bottom of the cup, and you have a word champion straw shooter. And, as an added bonus, yes gain knowledge of tension crossbows. YAY!!!
-ma-kay-la- on 13 Aug 2010 at 2:34 am #
Another good idea to try.
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 2:37 am #
I did it one day on accident trying to improve on a toy a boy in my barber shop was playing with. It was having some very poor performance issues, so I helped him to rectify the situation. You could shoot tacks at twenty feet with his.
-ma-kay-la- on 13 Aug 2010 at 2:54 am #
Haha, that’s gotta be a toy teachers are bound to hate. I remember one time sitting in the library with a couple of my friends and one of my friends gets up to get a book. Well, me and my other friend found a tack a set it on his chair (it wasn’t pointed up, it was sideways) and he came back and sat down and didn’t notice it. Then me and my friend couldn’t stop laughing because he had no clue. After he asked us what we were laughing about he yelled ow and that got me laughing alot more. He’s like, A tac? Really Makayla?
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 3:02 am #
I say again, you have horrible taste. You made an interesting leap from tack shooter to tack sitter. On that note, I’m probably about to get off of here because my computer keeps trying to bandsaw cut my leg off.
It’s quite disconcerting.
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 3:12 am #
My taste in humor may be worse. One time we unsrewed the seat from one of my freinds chair and stole his seat top. He fell clean through to the book rack.
-ma-kay-la- on 13 Aug 2010 at 3:24 am #
That’s funny, I wonder if he laughed.
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2010 at 10:14 am #
Mostly, he cussed and tried to kill us.
-ma-kay-la- on 13 Aug 2010 at 8:15 pm #
My friend that sat on the tack shot me and mybest friend with his airsoft gun.
wheelgunner on 14 Aug 2010 at 1:16 am #
Those things STING. Had one that had a rediculously large clip fired full auto on me at ten feet. Fired like 3000 or so rounds per minute.
-ma-kay-la- on 14 Aug 2010 at 1:45 am #
Ouch. His didn’t sting even though he was like five feet away. Then again, I was wearing my jacket and nothing hit my skin.
Formica Sheets · on 03 Nov 2010 at 4:37 pm #
Ninja Assasin is cheey in my opinion, the action sequence could have been much better _
big bear29 on 24 Nov 2010 at 10:54 pm #
I would either be using my hand made machete or a hand made battle ax to fight the zombies up close . Most of the ax’s out there are designed for choping wood not body parts and the ones that are built like they could be used for that are meant for decorations only and are made of weaker materials or are just to short in the handle or the blade . Your best bet is to just make your own . I suggest making an ax with a blade that is at least a foot from one end of the blade to the other so that your blade doesn’t get stuck when it goes into the zombie . Also the handle should be two to three feet long so that you can still keep your distance and attack . It wouldn’t be a bad idea to have a piercing spike on the opposite side and a thrusting spike at the end of the handle so that you can stab into the zombies skull or just stab into its chest to push it away from you .
Time for a few facts folks . Most of the traditional battle axes actually weigh less than a utility axe . Mainly because of the way that they are designed , a utility axe has a wedge shaped head to make it easier to chop wood , they are made like this so that when you swing the axe the added weight of the axe head and its wedge shaped head do the majority of the work so that you don’t have to keep swinging over and over again and wear yourself out . Also since you are cleaving through chunks of wood the head of the axe doesn’t need to be as broad as a battle axe would be since its shape and weight are doing the majority of the work each time you swing it . If you ever compare the blades of a battle axe and a utility axe you will notice that the battle axes head is far more narrow than a utility axe . Also the battle axe is far mor likely to go through the body than a utility axe which can get stuck in things rather easily .
ronald on 28 Nov 2010 at 10:59 pm #
Well let’s get back to the debate well I say tht anything tht kills a geek is good but two hand axes. Is good but the good ol fire axe is good al metal is axesome I have about 8 and aboyt 24 pickforks and 3 pickaxes yay I’m a very dangerous person jk but I do have all tht and more than tht I love being on a farm
Semper gumbii on 03 Dec 2010 at 12:29 am #
Are we all believing majik is keeping these zombies moving, or maybe we’ve just seen too many resident evil movies? Why are the zombies undead? What majik place does tissue with no blood supply or oxygen still survive? Thats just retarded. “zombies” are possible, but not majik rehuvinated ones. Zombies from a parasitic host or disease. More like zombieland zombies over dawn of the dead zombies. No majik potion, witch doctor, or nuclear radiation is going to bring back dead flesh… So unless jesus made the critters rise, I’m betting all organs will be functioning, but the brain will be in such a state that the “zombies” will not react to fear, pain, or normal stimuli will effect them. Chest shots should still work, head shots always and limb shots still slow them down. Blood will still spray because the heart will have to keep beating to supply oxygen and nutrients to cells, which must still function for any creature to stay animated. This isn’t twilight folks. Nor your favorite video game. Think toxic plasmosa, the crazies, mad cow disease. NOT indian burial grounds, magic viruses, and night of the living dead.
spartnrnger P77 on 02 Jan 2011 at 1:40 pm #
As mentioned above certain axes are used for certain things. You shouldn’t expect to fare too well with a normal “wood chopper” with more than one or two zed’s. A battle ax one or two handed will do the job just fine. A tomahawk is good for close quarters fighting and some single shot mid range throws. This is an uncertain gamble where I would prefer trying to silently chop a zed in the back of it’s head. Also carrying shouldn’t be that much of an issue, stick it in your belt or keep it in your hand if you’re that worried about a little CQB. And if you are concerned about it’s inaccessability then you should forego the ax and take something else. Or just carry two melee weapons. (Who shouldn’t carry a backup for their backup?)
wheelgunner on 05 Apr 2011 at 12:04 am #
I hate myself for giving in to availability, but I picked up a Hanwei Dane ax for Christmas. 5 lbs, historically so inacurate that I almost cried. 10 inch half moon cutting surface, good handling if you can take the weight. But, my cutting tests with it are stupid. It’s like hitting something with a cement wall. Three solid hits tore one of my pells in two, knocked the other off to one side. Obliterates half inch plywood.
Thought it was time we had an endorcement on here.
Shotguns Pown on 26 Jul 2011 at 11:13 pm #
An ax would make a good weapon. If I was to use one it would be hatchet/tomahawk for on the move, and a big durable fire ax for defending a position.
rhunter42dragon on 18 Sep 2011 at 1:41 pm #
As far as axes go, I’d choose the tomahawk. But my favorite head chopping anti-zombie weapon is not an ax, but rather the entrenching tool. I saw an E-tool used on Deadliest Warrior to chop a skull clean in half! An unbelievable anti-zombie weapon!
Sachel Leary on 26 Oct 2011 at 3:54 am #
An axe may be good but I prefer the cold steel gladius machete.
3-15 INF on 11 Jan 2012 at 3:56 pm #
hatchetsandaxes.com has a really durable tomahawk/hammer/pry bar combo that is tough as shit and 10 bucks- i’m gonna get one for my bug out bag and abuse it and let u know how it goes