Scavenging: Its your only hope.
In events of dramatic stress, the trappings of civilization are usually one of the first things to go, and with them go the safety blanket that
civilzation uses to blind us to the stark realities of survival. Soon, often within a few days, even in as little as a few hours, after the
event, surval becomes a matter of every man for himself. As soon as that line is crossed, what do you do?
The answer is, you scavenge.
The next question is: What do I need?
Priorities will shift, slightly, based on the number of people you are trying to keep alive, what you have on hand, and the envirement you are
trying to survive in, but some things you should ALWAYS keep an eye out for, as they could be the difference between living like the Kings of
Yore for two weeks, and surviving to live comfortably enough to teach your grandchildren how to fight and survive in the world that you find
yourself in. Anyone should be able to figure out that finding a gun, or ammunition, is good, and should be taken along with you. Likewise, any
parts for a project you are working on will already be part of your search criteria.
1.Medicine. Any medicine that you find may be the last. Also, as it ages, it becomes less effective.
2.Many things will be helpful, even essential, in the short-term, but real long term survival requires knowledge. So, the first thing to be on
the look out for is any form of how-to manual you can find. If at all practical, take these with you. You never know when the information will
prove useful. At the least, there is a strong chance that these materials can be used as trade fodder down the road.
3.Hand tools. Electricity is a finite resorce, and often a fickle taskmaster. The less you have to depend on her, the fewer technical apparatus
you have to spend time, resources, and energy worrying over. While they require more physical exertion, and productivity output lessens, these
can be used anytime, and without any other equiptment being required for their opperation.
4.Optics. They make everything better. They take the almost blind, and give them the eyes of the hawk. They make an indistinct blur on the
horizon and help determine if it is a friend, or a foe to be best avoided. In an area bereft of such things, they will hold the value of a king’s ransom within their few onces of weight. They can even give you a permanent source of fire for as long as the sun hangs in the sky. Take any intact optics that you can carry.
5.Seed. All civilizations that last are either farming civilizations that master how to gain the most sustenance from the land with the fewest
variables, or warrior societities that control them. Either way, crop seeds and farmers to take care of them are the only long term method of
survival that works.
6.Premade clothing/cloth. Another staple of our civilization, most of us haven’t the first clue how to make them once ours wear through, or the
climate changes. Gather as much as you can into the safest place you can. We use cloth in all aspects of our daily routines, so having too much
is never going to last for long.
7.Footwear. Shoes are important enough to daily life to warrant a number instead of sub-text in the clothing section. Until the world gets put
back together as we know it, footwear will forever be less reliable and not nearly as long lasting. Footwear will be more highly valued the
longer we go without civilzation, so this will become a highly lucrative trade item any place that people have feet.
8.Wiring. In todays world, these tiny strips of metal hold our world together. The same will hold true for any trying to establish contact with
surviving outposts, or foreign powers that may come to heal or take advantage of the situation you find yourself in. Should you come across any
who are attempting to enact these ideals, wiring of all types will be among the most valuable trade items you can muster. Not to be overlooked
is the fact that is can be broken down into weaponry, or even decorations, both of which have held value since the dawn of our species. Some of
the greatest steel in the world for bladesmithing, known as Damascus, is forged specifically out of many strands of steel wire hammered into one
peice of steel again. Also usefull for snares.
9.PVC. Another staple of our day and age, we often fail to see the value of the plastic pipes that thread us together. Useful in everything from
plumbing and shelter making to being ready made blowguns and nonrusting armor.
One very important thing to keep in mind while you are out collecting, is that somebody else will need these things as much as you do. You will
have to fight for these things. The more you have, the better the target you will make. Zombies will not be the biggest threat here. It will be
the living that will go to any extremes to get their hands on what you have. Have a plan ready and in place before your scavenge begins, and be
prepared to kill or be killed over that last handfull of beans.
This article was written by Wheelgunner. Thanks for your contribution.
Comments (64)








McLuvin on 21 Aug 2010 at 2:38 am #
Good job wheelgunner. We don’t often talk about the importance of seeds, but
you are right, we will need a sustainable food source to continue in the long term.
Makeshift weapons will be a big scavenge item if guns are unavailable too.
BobTheMisteriousWonder on 22 Aug 2010 at 5:44 pm #
Well, beside the mindfuck of me seeing that picture in a town about 4 miles from were I live, this article was very good. Most people over look these things.
HMPlatinum on 22 Aug 2010 at 8:24 pm #
Good job.
Most forms of scavenging you mention presume you have a base/stash/cache of some permanence, however. Or one big a## truck to haul it in. Shoes and clothing are certainly taken for granted. I’m not sure I’d think to pick up an extra pair of shoes until the ones I was wearing began to wear out.
Good points.
3-15 INF on 23 Aug 2010 at 9:11 am #
Scavenging should be a group activity- cordon off an area, provide 360 degree security, and pick a sector clean
3ID on 23 Aug 2010 at 6:32 pm #
I like 3-15 INF idea you definitely need security no matter what is out there, but the article had great points to make and a lot things people need to consider when it comes to survival.
Semper Cogitant on 23 Aug 2010 at 7:49 pm #
Excellent article Wheelgunner. Scavenging and how we’d go about it is important for long term survival in a post zombie apocalypse environment or inn any long term disaster where the world, or at lest the region, are seriously depopulated.
You bring up the important of seeds, and of textiles, which will be critical to long term survival, but which aren’t often discussed in this context. Both will be easy enough to find fortunately.
I love the picture too. Looters should be shot on site, and for us the difference between looting and scavenging is critical. Looting is something that occurs during and in the immediate aftermath of of a disaster, scavenging occurs well after the disaster in an area that is no longer populated and the goods are not owned by anyone. In an area that is populated, with the goods owned and controlled by the populace, scavenging becomes robbery.
For my part, I would hope to be moving with a group, hopeful with a fixed base, but maybe moving cross country too. We would concentrate heavily on security in all direction, covering as much as possible. We would first look over the area visually, with the above mentioned optics, to make sure there was no population. If there was we would have to evaluate weather we should make contact and trade, or just move on. Or in a desperate situation should be risk fighting them? If unpopulated, we would make a plan, set up time line, communications, rendezvous points, goals etc, them get to it.
Priorities would always be food, weapons, medicines, and probably fuel (liqueur is included as both fuel and weapons). All of the things mentioned above would also be important; in a planned scavenging trip we would have lists of what tools, textiles, and agricultural products to look for.
Needs would evolve over time, if we have a fixed location we would eventually have plenty of tools and would instead be looking for spare parts or better machines. If we were farming we could be producing our own seeds, at least in part, but would need fertilizes, possibly other agro chemicals (which can also be borrowed for the weapons category).
Part of scavenging would also be hunting and gathering. Depending on where you are, nature can provide a lot of what you need, and the two activities would overlap. While scavenging around Wenatchee, Wa, you might also pass through the numerous orchards gathering apples, pears and such, and shoot a deer or other animal. Just that would provide food, fuel, soap, and clothes.
Another point I think would be important is to scavenge from a vehicle whenever possible. Mobility, carrying capacity and the ability to retreat rapidly would all be valuable.
Sorry if this one rambles more than usual, there were a startling number of interruptions while I was trying to write this.
Fluca on 23 Aug 2010 at 9:53 pm #
First time poster long time reader here.
Guys, one thing that has been on my mind for quite sometime is relevant to the subject at hand and quite a complicator.
When there is a zombie outrbreak, would/should you feel safe enough to eat of the land? I mean, I, for one, would not eat any animal meat at all, unless I could find some ginea pig to test it for me first, since, as far as I would know, or rather, exactly because I would know so little (at least at first) about how the zombie outbreak occured and spread (besides the widely accepted fluid exchange, a.k.a. bites and the like), my thought would be that it would be foolish to eat anything exposed to the elements.
And when I talked about ginea pigs, I was, of course, talking about another human, which would introduce a grave moral problem, since the only way to know for sure if the meat was safe would be to feed the game meat to a healthy individual and wait to see if any zombification follows…
The same goes for produces, and, therefore, canned goods would be my first and foremost concern, as well as, obviously, bottled water. Also, anything relating to hidroponics and, as aforementioned, seeds would be extremely important to acquire.
To sum it up, I would try to eat/drink only what was already canned/bottled, or was produced by me/my group in a controlled environment (hidroponics).
KillerB on 24 Aug 2010 at 8:58 pm #
Its been awhile since I have posted anything but this is interesting. If you decide to fix your position then you must also understand the manpower requirments that go along with that. If you are able to scrounge up things and form a reasonable stockpile then you become a target for everyone in the area. In the best case having 15 people to secure an area is still marginal at best. 15 trigger pullers against any Zombies is a great thing but if time is on my side then one or two guys can pick off a group in a matter of days, one at a time, while at the same time avoiding any major high intensity conflict. The holed up group would have two choices (1) find and destroy the enemy or (2) further fortify the area and hold out hoping that the attackers would find an easier target. As a potential attacker I would take my time and hope for the enemy to make either of the two choices above. If they fortify then they make easy long range targets and if they stay then at some point they will present themselves as targets sooner or later. If they decide to attack then they will have to mass their forces inside of the compound and present another grouped target of opportunity.
In short the only thing the attackers have to do is fight a war of attrition against their target.
So to stop the long drawn out comment you can not forget to have enough cammo materials to blend into your environment. I belive that staying hidden will over time be a better survival plan than creating a fort and attempting to defend and supply it. Hole up with even a well stocked group makes you a target of opportunity. You can not assume that your attackers will not have enough food, water, guns and ammo to wait you out and pick you off one at a time. They will have the ablity to attack and withdraw at will and you will be forced to defend a fixed position.
Ronin666 on 25 Aug 2010 at 2:04 am #
I tend to agree with Killer. The more of you there are, the bigger target you become and the more chance that someone will do something stupid to endanger everyone. I can’t help but notice on a lot of forums (not this one) that there is a lot of “Load up and lets go kick zombie ass and take what ever we need.” I’ll take my chances with one or two other people, we need to find a lot less to survive, leave a smaller footprint and would be harder to find by raiders.
McLuvin on 25 Aug 2010 at 10:28 am #
If it truly is a level 4 outbreak I don’t see a ton of seige warfare going on. While it’s true that a barricaded group could be surrounded and picked off over time or starved out, the zombies would be a huge complication to an effective seige. A crowd would start to gather as soon as the first shot was fired. I don’t think there will be nearly as many hostile roving gangs as we discuss. The zombie threat will be too great for anyone to focus solely on attacking a compound when they could put that effort into securing another abandoned building and gathering supplies. I’m not saying that there won’t be human on human violence or even small battles, but it won’t be anything drawn out because of the zombies.
As for not eating anything outside like animals and vegetables, that’s ridiculous. It shouldn’t take long to figure out how the disease spreads. We will all be witness to plenty of death and carnage in the first stages. It will become obvious what does and doesn’t cause infection. To simply write off so many sources of food and water is just foolhardy. The canned goods and bottled water will only last so long. They may be the most convenient source of sustenance in the short term but I plan on being around awhile.
Fluca on 25 Aug 2010 at 11:03 am #
McLuvin, noone is talking about never eating or drinking from nature again, but I, personally, don’t assume government agencies will be working on any capacity (be prepared for the worst is my motto). Therefore, without any coherent body of scientists working on finding out how the disease started, what is/are it’s vectors and what kind of resources were contaminated, I rather assume they all are.
I cannot fathom why you would think that a sickness as virulent as the one we are talking about here would be as easily dealt with as you implied.
For instance, it took about six months (maybe more) for the global comunity to minimally contain the AH1N1 virus, which is a ‘mere’ variation of the flu virus. Meanwhile, we were advised to wash our hands constantly, don’t share glasses and silverware, wear masks and all sorts of preventive measures and yet, still plenty of people died.
This comming from a well known and simple disease as the flu, being tackled by the full force of our governments agencies.
Now, picture a virus that can make the dead walk, or sap the intelligence of the living or any other grave consequences you like to associate with zombification. Surely it is a much graver virus.
It could be airborne, it could be on the water supply, it could be on our food, or even all of the above or worse. Do you really think that just by looking and making simple associations you’ll be able to determine how the contagion works to the point you’ll feel free to walk about eating and drinking whatever you’ll find?
If so, I would be very glad to have you in my group. Rest assured that I would pose no obstacle to you drinking water and eating game right off the bat. I would, of course, watch your development carefully…
Fluca on 25 Aug 2010 at 11:12 am #
I don’t know how to edit my posts and upon reading my last one, I’ve realized that it’s last paragraph was poorly written and unecessarily abrasive.
I appologize for it (specially to you, McLuvin) and, if you, reader (or admins), allow me to redo it, it should read as follows:
If I happen to find anyone willing to do that even after I had completely explained my point, I would, gladly accept him/her to my group’s midst, and, of course, I would, from then on, watch their development very carefully. That would surely solve all the moral issues I’ve talked about on my first post.
McLuvin on 25 Aug 2010 at 1:07 pm #
No need to apologize Fluca, I enjoy intelligent discourse. My point is that in the first days of the outbreak you are going to be around people eating and drinking whatever is available. If they don’t turn, it should be safe to assume it’s not food or water borne. It will be very important to be observant during the initial outbreak. The information about how infection spreads as well as the characteristics of the infected could go a long way to keeping your group alive. I agree that initially you should stockpile as much non-perishable food and potable water as you can. Once you determine that game and groundwater are safe they should be utilized to not diminish your stores.
Semper Cogitant on 25 Aug 2010 at 4:02 pm #
Worrying about how the pathogen is transferred in a zombie apocalypse is important. We generally assume that is works as it does in the popular media, it is a virus that is transmitted blood to blood much more easily that other disease transmitted the same way (ie it’s next to impossible to get HIV from a bite, almost guaranteed to get the zombie virus from a bite).
In general boiling water and cooking food properly would eliminate almost all possibility of transmission of a virus or bacteria, neither can generally survive outside of a certain temperature range. If the disease is caused by a prion (not a totally unreasonable possibility), then things are a little different.
It would be easy enough to tell shortly after the outbreak weather animals could also be affected, if there were zombie horses then eating horse would be bad. It might be possible that an animal could be a carrier but not affected, which would take longer to discover depending on how abundant that animal is (cow’s we’d know right away, polar bears could take a really long time to figure out).
Even worse would be transmission via a vector like a mosquito. That would really suck, and be a little harder for us to figure out, especially if not all bites resulted in infection.
The epidemiology of the zombie virus (or any disease resulting in similar depopulation and societal collapse) would be drastically important to understand, but is of course impossible to know about ahead of time.
It is important that in thinking about such mega-disasters we have this in our minds, and that each of us tries to come to some basic understanding of epidemiology, but that is about all we can do as this factor is mostly immune to planning, at least by individuals and small groups with the resources of a government or a giant corporation.
Sharpshooter on 25 Aug 2010 at 11:04 pm #
This wouldn’t pose that bad of an issue. There are so many supermarkets now-a-days you could scav off them comfortably for a year as long as you could survive. Could stretch it even longer with the fewer people.
KillerB on 26 Aug 2010 at 9:55 am #
I was not mearly talking about seige warfare. The zeds will of course be a problem but a fortified group has lost its ablity to maneuver at all. Once a location is found that contains the items that you need then over a period of time ( think weeks) it would be fairly simple to take one or two people out and then move on. The zeds could at that time be used as a force mulitplier and if they are able to take the compound down then you win still. Last I checked zeds do not need to eat or drink or do any of the things that we need to do. Once their food source is exausted then you can simply move in and gather up all the resources that you needed in the first place. Not a pretty picture or even fair but the name of the game is survival not politics. Remaining moblie is very important. Only fix a position if you have the resources and manpower to do so. If the infection is bad enough then there will be very few groups that will have the necessary items to remain in a fixed position for long.
Watch the Colony and you will see how easy it is to get in on a group that has no tactical mindset. Oblivious to the dangers that surround them. The groups brain power is reduced without a clear leader and that in itself makes them easy pickings. Cammo to hide and fuel to move and you can take everything else you need.
This is just an idea and is obviously dependant on the tactical situation.
CHEERS.
3-15 INF on 26 Aug 2010 at 10:38 am #
wow, if size is such an impediment, how do armies ever get anything done?
KillerB on 26 Aug 2010 at 3:02 pm #
Manpower, training, tactics, supply and logistics,………..that is how. Last I checked military forces generally have the backing of a nation or at least the financial and logistical backing. That will not be something that the average or even above average citizen will have available. If you read what I wrote then I stated that having a large enough group to cover all the bases ie: security (both base security and convoy security at the same time 24/7) as well as allowing sleep cycles and down time (not the same thing) is highly unlikley in the event of a class 4 outbreak. If you disagree then that is fine but beware of all the things both good and bad that come out of moving with an untrained group no matter how well equiped they think that they are. There is a false sence of security in numbers. There is also a false sence of security in having a gun or other weapon. It will be very possible to take out a few people in a group at will. When their moral drops then everything else follows. Chances are that the members of a larger group will not know each other very well. Blame, mistrust, and the overall stressfull life that will accompany a large aoutbreak will all factor into tearing the group apart from the inside. Remember the group will not be a tribe but a mismatched multiethenic and mulitigender group with multiple backgrounds. THINK ABOUT THIS. Yes I will agree that it will not be impossible to come across a large group that can cover all the bases but it will not be likely.
CHEERS
Semper Cogitant on 26 Aug 2010 at 10:37 pm #
I have to point out one serious disadvantage of remaining mobile all the time. There are no sleep cycles, no down time, you are always on the run, always looking out for zombies and for human bandits.
For my part, I think mobility to get away from population centers and into areas where you have usable resources and good security would be the thing. As I’ve said before, I’d be looking for an area where winter would give you a break from mobile zombies, where hunting and foraging is fairly easy, for me it would be in the Cascade Mountains, the Okanogan National Forest, or the mountains around Wenatchee, Wa.
Of course a lot would depend on the remaining human population. How many humans survive? 10%, 1%, 0.1%? More? Less?
Much of the danger of wandering bandits or others that would want to take what I had by force would be mitigates by knowing the area, difficult access, patrols, booby traps, and not assuming any meeting with other humans would be hostile (guarded, certainly, but not automatically hostile).
Also, it’s likely that the types that would go around attacking others for resources rather than foraging for it themselves would be happy to get hold of alcohol or drugs. A little bit of opiates or benzodiazipine added to some liqueur given as a peace offering could do wonders. Having that sort of stuff on hand would be very important.
Certainly it would all be very dangerous, but I think being in a fairly secure location where you can sustain your group would be thing thing to go for. Just being able to have decent sleep, recreation and occasional peace would give a tremendous advantage, and you would never have a moment of any of those things if you are constantly on the move.
Just my two bits worth, and again too much rambling.
Sharpshooter on 26 Aug 2010 at 11:41 pm #
I’ve noticed we never really talk about the sibbling topic of zombie survival. That of nuclear survival. Maybe a segment on that? Just to shake things up a bit?
wheelgunner on 27 Aug 2010 at 12:10 pm #
Hi guys. First things first, don’t forget that the long term(few weeks tops) effects that running away will have on the psychi. Go from predator to prey, and you stay that way.
Forting up is never a good idea. In all honesty, every fortification in history has been supplied by the civilian population, and the only reason they even stay in the fort is so that they can wait for their RELEIF force to arive and kick all kinds of ass. Should you go this route, prepare fire trenchs and such like for dealing with amassed zombie power. You’ll have the time and defences to wait them out.
Seriously, if you are still alive in 6 months, you will have picked up on what to do and what not to, or you’ll aready be dead or zed. No exceptions. And the government crap about washing your hands and such, that is standard duh stuff doctors would love for you to do anyway, and their standard answer for crap they do not know how to fix.
Even if it is just you, the scavenging supplies are still valuable, and having something you can afford for a peace offering or trade item that is not essential to your own survival is not exactly a bad idea.
Even if the “gangs” are not as bad as we indicate, being jumped at some point should be a given. Ever here of a vigilance comitee? check out there history, and remember it when you go to talk to someone inside one of those bases. Another point, to be learned from hunting, is to be prepared to be killed because some fool thinks you are a zombie. These are primarily early spread warnings, but I still think that they should be thrown out there.
Thats the most I’ve jawed off in a long time.
KillerB on 28 Aug 2010 at 12:39 am #
Being moble does not mean running. It means that you move from place to place. If your group needs to rest then you can stop at a secure looking position, clear it out, and then spend a few days resting. The idea here is to not stay in one place to long. Then you stand the chance of being found by hostile people or Zeds. Being moble does not make you the prey…………..You are the hunter. Use some of the gear listed at the very top of this thread and scan the area before you head into it. Yes that does not mean that it will be unsafe but at least you will have an idea of what you are heading into. Fix your position with anything less than an Army with a logistics network backing the positon and you may be fine but then again? Not everyone will be out to harm, not everyone will be out to do good. Most will fit some place between. Not willing to starve but also not willing to kill to stay fat.
My $0.02 is all.
CHEERS
Scav Dingo on 28 Aug 2010 at 1:49 am #
..not to coin successful small business quotes but – “location, location, location” ..heavy populous metropolis would be high challenging areas to sustain salvaging and survival on long term (regardless of apparent stores, groceries, and building safe-havens).. ..the faster you could make for rural areas and distance yourself from major cities the greater chances of survival you have.. ..lower zombi encounters and gang intervention, possibilities of returning to the roots of mankind (i.e. living off the land), and more important – time for tactics..
..in rural areas, distance can create time to formulate plans not on the fly, distance creates a duration for observation which better supports intel, and collectively this lowers panic and creates tactics..
..lastly, band of brothers, those in your group or adopted into the group need to offer invaluable traits, skills or talents that significantly contribute to the overall value of survival in the group; keeping numbers low for regards to resources, and yet keeping efficiency high..
KillerB on 29 Aug 2010 at 10:53 pm #
Staying in even a small town can be a good thing. Large or small all cities will offer all the things that we must have to survive. I agree that there will be more dangers in areas where the population was higher but there will also be more rewards. If you decide to live off the land in some place far from civilization then (A) you are braver than you are smart because it will take time to plow fields, plant crops, etc, etc. In the short term you can hunt or live off the land but 99.9% of the population does not know how to do this long term. A few days to a few weeks I can but much past that I will not say for sure how I would do. (B) You already know how and in that case you probably already are living outside of the city limits. Fact is peoplelong term survival is not camping. It requires resources……period. The Zeds would be a constant thorn in the side of every attempt to get back to a normal life. Even a large scale infection that rapidly kills the infected will alter life beyond anything anyone can imagine. If the Zes are capable of living for a long period of time then that means at some point they will wander into the rural areas looking for food. SO I agree that in the short term getting out of town is a good choice but at some point the abandoned buildings and excess materials left behind will make city life worth risking. Fact is I think most people will simply get cought in town and will not be able to leave. It does not take much of a traffic jamb to completly stop the flow of traffic. Imagine the traffic jamb that will be created by thousands of people fleaing the location of an infection. SO either you get out first of you are stuck. Plan on getting stuck and you will be planning on the worst case senerio and that means you will be better prepared for it. So staying moble inside of the city limits, hunkerking down in a low profile area that provides at least decent security from the zeds will be a good starting plan untill you find out exactly how the infection is transmitted as well as the lifespan of those infected. Before someone mentions all the dead bodies laying around or the chance of getting pinned in one place let me mention that those hazards will exist everywhere. I live in a town of 30,000 people but it is spread out over a large area. One of the wonders of living in the midwest. So the simple layout of the terrain that I am living in would minimize the effects that thousands of dead bodies would have on the survivors. My lan here is to go moble early and take, by force if necessary, what i need to get me through the short term. That will be the rough phase of any infection. After that I will modify my plan to suit the situation as I see fit. CHEERS
wheelgunner on 30 Aug 2010 at 12:54 am #
@KillerB-your plan to “take,by force if necessary” effectivly just made you one of our much discussed banditos. Congratulations. We now have writen evidence of one of our own becoming Vader. Tell me, how’s the tea on the Dark Side?
From what I’ve read from your posts so far, you have thought out everything just far enough to get yourself in trouble, and get you and all your crew dead. Even as far as this post goes, you have been on defensive footing since the beginning. Though, you have shown some initiative in reprizing your plan, you keep changing sides like a Mexican president from the mid 19th century.
Personally, I see a disaster like the one being discussed as being settled in one of a few ways. In all likelyhood, we are all doomed to failure. I like those kinds of odds, but I’m strange. Hunting/Gathering has mobility appeal, and your scavenging while running away tactic falls within this field. This takes CONSTANT attention to survive on. We took up farming, and herding, because it is easier to do, more productive, and less time consuming than that. Also, farming in Z-Land will be Viking style, sword on hip and spear lashed across the plow. Best way to fix a problem is to not let it become one. The best chance we have on survival is to doo what we do best as a species, and weather the initial storm in small familial or psudofamilial units, and then to slowly regroup into lareger packs of likeminded people. Rule of law will become more important as long as impending doom lies upon us, but it’s in the genes, so I’m not going to sweat it.
And in case yall didn’t know, and to quote historical precident, such as the black death, heavily populated areas like cities are the breeding grounds of disease, and where all the damn fools pack into when there is an infection. AKA, everyone will have your plan, and it will kill all of you. The people that lived ran for the backwoods as fast as they could and delt with the hardships.
By the By, moving from place to place on a constant basis to remove yourself from the perceived encroachment of an enemy force so that you might stay safely away from it is running. Please, I beg of you, do not split hairs with me.
Besides that, why would you willingly move from a secure to an unsecure location on a regular basis? Its like hunting down a hurricane with a row boat in the middle of the ocean.
wheelgunner on 30 Aug 2010 at 1:03 am #
Back on topic, welding gear is on the often overlooked but irreplaceable list. How many goats do you think you could trade a good condition lazy boy for? Whatt do you guys think of the pack-caravan?
KillerB on 30 Aug 2010 at 2:17 am #
@ wheelgunner…If your entire plan is to run for the hills then all the power to you. Go where everyone will be trying to go. Leaving early, like I stated above, you shold be able to miss the traffic jamb that happens everytime everyone tries to leave a place at once. Ever been to a ball game? or had to evacuate from a hurricane? Now imagine for a second that there are zombies chasing you at the same time you are in a traffic jamb? What do you think your survival rate would be then? Staying in one place to long will let everyone, both dead and alive, know exactly where you are at. Plan for the worst and hope for the best……….ever hear that? And finally…… If you are not willing to do whatever is needed to keep you and your family alive then you are doomed from the start. If you truely read the posts that I put here then you would have noticed that while taking what I need I would only kill for it if I found my group in dire straights. Vader I may be but banditio I am not. A survivor will do what ever it takes to live even one more day. Plow fields like a viking? Sword hitched to your plow! Great idea. Let everyone who has a useful skill in and turn everyone else away. No you will be overran by people who simply do not care about you. They may not even need what you have. They may even just get a kick out of attacking your group. Cable TV is gone now what do I do for fun? Hey lets go raid that farm just outside of town. Sounds fun. Maby they they will have some beers that we can drink when we are cleaning our guns later! The Vikings were a warrior culture. They took what they wanted. That is how they go their fierce reputation. Not from pulling their battle axes off their plows and defending thier homestead. So good luck there you viking farmer. Good idea about that welder though. I may need that later………….CHEERS
Semper Cogitant on 30 Aug 2010 at 9:12 am #
@wheel: good point. Welding is a skill I should really learn, it would be crucial to long term survival, and can be handy around the house.
As for trading goats for a chair, if we get to the point of trading excess food for luxury items then we’re doing really well.
wheelgunner on 30 Aug 2010 at 6:57 pm #
Luxury items are the difference between surviving and living. A single chair like that can completely alter your output on a situation. I get the chance, mine are coming wiith me, even if I have to rig it into the shooting platform in the wagon bed.
Welding isn’t that hard actually, but you won’t have a lot of resorces to learn with after the fact. It’s basically working the rod in small circles, pulling it along while swirling it. Easy to talk about, hard to do.
Big thing to stock up for is winter. That first one is going to be a doozy. And containers. Unless you have some skills now, you are going to want as many as you can while you teach yourself how to rig something that wil make do. Same goes for cordage. Mason Jars are good for everything from food storage to molotave containers.
@KillerB-If you get an opportunity, grab yourself a bag of oats, like from a feed store. If you clear the ground pretty good of brush, you can get by with just throwing them on the ground. A little water and they will take root on their own. You could even get in some practice while you are running around, with a box type minigarden. teach you some basics. You can also rig a coke can into a good charcoal filter. If you are going to do it, do it with support. If you want to stay on your toes, take ten bucks to a place that sales seeds, and you may be surprised by how much you can get with it. Chack the storeage life and requirements. I’m partial to “the plan lasts until the battle starts” myself. Also, no one knows anything until they are taught. Get rid of the trouble personalities, the dangerous ones, and be sure they aren’t going to be a threat, but don’t turn away a set a hands and a brain that are willing to help. Way they used to do it around here, back in the depression, is to set them some work before hand, and see how they perform it. That will give you a read on them, then feed them, and set them in a quarentine area, and repeat until they choose to leave, you can trust them, or you can prove them a mad dog.
Men will always be known for success, and by how they first come into contact with others. Viking is actually a verb meaning “to raid or to plunder” in Norse, and that is the foundation that made them so famous it is our word for them. However, it was farmers who strapped ax to plow who spent half the year pillaging. In effect, we are talking about the same exact people, but in another of their two roles. I could go off on this tangent for ages, but hopefully this will do.
Anybody know how long pemican lasts?
wheelgunner on 30 Aug 2010 at 7:29 pm #
It just occured to me that this is actually on topic. You need to be on the lookout for penned animals. This could signal previously unknown people nearby, but it is also a highly valuable scavenge item if left unattended. At the least, if unattended, open whatever pen they are in to allow them to escape. No sense in letting them die, and it may prove to be a wise decision in the future.
KillerB on 31 Aug 2010 at 2:51 am #
@ wheel……..
water, food, fire, and shelter are actually the items needed for survival but a good chair can go a long way if you are trying to improve moral. People with higher moral will probably be better off in the long run. If the zeds are running around I would take the chairs weight in something else like…..ammo, water, canned food, or many other items. But to each his own. 6 months to a year (and possibly longer) after the infection starts there will be millions of empy houses that are still weather proof. I am sure that one or two of those will have a comfortable chair that has not been addopted by mice. The same goes for dishes, pots, pans, etc. But I guess if the plan is to secure a place and stay there then comfort shold be sought out. I mean the ultimate goal is to not only survive but prosper.
I still stand by the stay moble stay alive tactic though. At least untill I have a good understanding of the enemy, be they zed or human. One thing that either thought about a lot or actually wrote in another post……..If you do decide to move around a lot there is nothing stopping you from make caches of excess items that you may find. Stockpile various houses in an area. That way you will always have a place to go to that will have something to eat and drink, weapons, shelter, ammo, and what ever else you decide to put there. The population will after all be cut by at least half, so take your pick of the best places.
CHEERS
Angryvikingman on 31 Aug 2010 at 11:12 am #
Whew, ok. Let me weigh in on this.
Welding. A VERY useful skill. I was always taught to make “Pac-man” shaped semicircles and my welds hold pretty well.
I agree with KillerB about being mobile, but only for the first 6 months or so, depending on the time of year and where you live.(City or rural area) Winter is especially hard for women and children to be mobile on foot, which is most likely the way that a lot of us will be getting around after the fall of humanity. I think that a farming way of life will be the best way to get by, but you really really have to plan in advance to farm. It takes weeks for crops to come in, and what are you going to eat until then? The backpack you’d most likely be carrying would be very limited in size. I mean, its not a +1 bag of infinite holding or anything. LOL. Everybody tries to smack me down when I say a large hiking backpack or military rucksack is the best option. Well, I can carry the weight easier in my framed alice pack than you can in your JanSport school backpack. Initially, and when moving base, the large pack is going to suit you best. A big pack will hold more food, ammo, ect. I know that I can hunt and live off the land maybe indefinately, but my wife and kids can’t. I have to think about them while formulating my plan. I think that getting the hell out of dodge on the very first day will be the best idea, however in a car or other large motorvehicle is not the way. I really like those new 2-4 person ATVs as a conveyance. They can handle weight, tow trailors, pack in 1-4 people, drive at 40+ mph when you adjust the governor and everyone can shoot out of the vehicle. I’d probably go straight to a dealer and steal one when TSHTF if I lived in the city. I recently bought a house out in the country, so escape is no longer a concern for me. My neighbors, assuming they get eaten or want to co-op, have tractors I can use to initailly prepare fields until the fuel runs out, then after that, they have horses to plow with. Hopefully with all the ammo, food, and other survival necessities I’ve been stockpiling it’d all work out. I don’t know what will befall mankind in the years to come, but I wanna be ready for it. My wife thinks I’m crazy, but she loves me and lets me get away with my eccentricities. Thanks for listening to my rambling.
sean on 01 Sep 2010 at 1:49 am #
i’d say building materials in general are going to be a neccesity regardless.
and as far as trade goods go,
stockpiling luxury items like cigarettes and alcohol is’nt a bad plan either.
3-15 INF on 01 Sep 2010 at 2:45 pm #
haha i mentioned those atv’s months ago and everyone kinda farted me off. I think a Gator would be awesome- i can even plow with it
wheelgunner on 02 Sep 2010 at 12:56 pm #
Buddy of mine has one of those. Bad Ass. Be sure and grab you a BIG winch, they are just big enough to be impossible to move when they get stuck. Besides that, they are great. Beats a 4wheeler, in my opinion. And, they can be weatherproofed.
And while you are out scavenging, be sure and leave the lawyers wherever you find them. They go bad in the first week with proper care and canstant supervision.
KillerB on 04 Sep 2010 at 10:26 am #
Do not forget toilet paper. Your diet is gonna change and that means the runs. Chairs to improve the quality of life. I will take the weight of a lazy boy chair in rolls of TP anyday. That is a lot of bottom cleaning. Or you could use a rag. Your choice. But nobody wants to talk about the cool things like a nice roll of Charmin Ultra Tough double ply so I thought that I would bring it up.
CHEERS
wheelgunner on 06 Sep 2010 at 11:28 pm #
Funny side note. When toilet paper was first invented, it was so nice that people used it for stationary. For those unfamiliar with the word, stationary mean fancy writing paper.
@KillerB-Just don’t get killed over it. Imagine what your buddies will have to say about you after that. You would never be able to rip. Watch what you grab after your stash runs out. Rashes down there get…distracting.
KillerB on 08 Sep 2010 at 10:51 pm #
@ wheel- thanks for the heads up. I am so glad that there are people out there who care so much! If I did not care about getting banned again then I would most deffently tell you to FUCK OFF but since I care a little about being able to post here I will not say that. I will just think it silently to myself.
It angers me to think that if you do not agree with something then you have to bash it. This site is after all about expanding ones depth of usefull knowledge on matters pertaining to zombies and surviving the aftermath of an outbreak. So sorry if I do not fit the mold here but then again (unlike most of the posters here, those of you with actual knowledge know who you are) I actually have tactical training and real world experiance in what can only be described as “spicy” situations. So the hypothetical does not exist in my mind. Risk verses rewards is the name of the game when you start talking about survival. Some will be willing to risk more than others to get the same benifits or rewards. NEWS FLASH those that risk the most will be the victors in the long run. Everyone else will be (1) DEAD or (2) an animated, violent, chunk of undead flesh running around in an epic struggle to kill and/or eat everyone who does not fall into one of the two catagories that I described above.
I do not know what your actual real world experiances or social filters are so I am just going to assume you needed to know. If I guessed wrong then at least you now know a little more about me and my mindset. So I close by simply saying CHEERS and thanks for the advice about not risking my life for a roll of TP……….I really needed that reality check!
wheelgunner on 09 Sep 2010 at 10:50 am #
@KillerB-I’m sorry, but it appears that my humor is coming across wrong. I agree that tp is important(ish), but I was trying to…lighten things a bit with the laughing buddy comment. I haven’t intentionally bashed you in 5 posts, and have merely trying to advise you of some things I know, and that you may not, as well as throwing the info out there for readers who are not posting, and may find your ideas preferable and need some helpful hints that may come in handy. And if you want a pissing contest, YOU WIN. I don’t care. And, seriously, do you know how many hunters and inexperienced people grab poison ivy or somesuch to wipe with? Thown out there for them, man, thrown out there for them. Aight?
Joe on 14 Sep 2010 at 12:43 am #
I think that in the first months of the outbreak there will be a real threat from raiders that want to take care of their own and will care very little about whether or not you have loved ones with you, or are just surviving successfully as a lone survivor. I imagine that there would be ambushes where unsuspecting survivors would be tricked into helping say a women holding a baby in her arms looking weak and in need, so that when the lone survivor walks up to help her he only finds out that the baby is a plastic doll and he is suddenly surrounded, shot and captured, not as a hostage, but as human meat for the cooking pot to feed a band of starving raiders that long ago realized after the food ran out that what’s good enough for the zombie to eat is good enough for them…Human steaks. There is much to fear from man as the hunter in the aftermath.
..sparks.. on 22 Sep 2010 at 9:16 am #
I do believe that the zeds would come to those who are defending it would be near imposible to hold siege( not sure on that term) for long with all of the zeds hanging around. Stealty night missions would be your best bet
wheelgunner on 24 Sep 2010 at 12:44 am #
Raiding works. I know that forting up, as is, is not going to be the easiest solution, not the way homes are generally constructed these days. I mean, besides all the blind spots, the materials we use are pathetic for combat purposes. A scene at the end of The Book of Eli comes to mind. However, staying mobile for that long adds a slew of variables that logically lead up to you forting up in whatever hell hole who end up near. Mobility requires raiding, scavenging as it where, and forting up requires being able to fend off these raids. Unfortunatley, raiding is also self-defeatist in it’s pholosophy. I know that I will either fort up in force, or set off in squad size formations. The phrase”a job for an army, or one or two men” was coined in situations like this.
However, as an understated fact, I fear the living far more than the living dead in these scenarios. I know from personal experience what kind of b.s. like that that happens on the day by day. Just remember to trust yourself, your gut, and never fully anything else, and you may live long enough to take one or two with you.
big bear29 on 10 Oct 2010 at 4:56 pm #
I’ve read these comments and ended up laughing at more than a few of them . Scavenging works that much I will never dispute , its just a fact , raiding however is another story altogether . I’ve read certain people saying that they would attack anybody they found that was trying to fort up , so they could get their supplies well I have a few things to point out to you .
1. In the first few months you will be raiding the SURVIVORS of the outbreak . Those will be the people that survived through planning , reacting quickly or where just plain lucky . Now when you start your raiding at first you will be successful , because you will likely be picking off those that got just far enough away to feel safe and set up a base . They will be scared and weak and likely they will be poorly armed , easy prey , in the outbreak it will be survival of the fittest , smartest , most clever and the most ruthless .
2. Guess what there will be others with the ” I’ll take what I want and kill anyone in the way ” mentality . Not only will you be competing with other raiders and scavengers but you will have to defend against them as well as the zombies and against various animals like domesticated dogs that have gone feral or animals that have escaped from zoos and wildlife preserves , so unless you are using a vehicle you are not going to be as mobile as you think because you will be spending a lot of time watching your own back .
3. Now if you manage to survive the competition and you picked off the weaker survivors , guess what now you will be facing the people who not only survived the destruction of the human race , but found that they actually thrived in this type of enviroment . These people will likely be hard core criminals , gun nuts , ex-military , hunters , rednecks and people who threw away their morals and ended up being some really ruthless cut throat SOBs . They won’t be the easy pickings you seem to think , in fact I fully imagine your corpses will be swinging from a few trees as a warning to other raiders who come around looking for an easy mark . That is a very realistic scenario , especially if some of the survivors of your earlier raiding track you down and dipense some “frontier” justice .
4. Its actually quite funny that some people think that since they received military training they would be this invincible raider . Well I got a news flash for you I know dozens of people that are better trackers , marksmen and better at using camo than the “trained” military soldiers . Also there have been studies that show that some people who shoot recreationally and those that hunt on a regular basis are better marksmen than most soldiers . Also by this point in time everyone right down to the youngest child would have been exposed to the violence and horrors of the new world , so don’t be suprised if the people start hunting you down to put an end to your raiding or if the next time your raiding a house that one little kid you spared puts a cap in you the second you turn your back on him .
5. Its pretty easy to spot the people that are going to cause trouble in your area . They usually have an attitude about them like they are the biggest badass on the planet , like they are the top dog and their is nothing you could do to stop them , some will walk around in the open almost like they are daring some one to try something . It usually doesn’t start out like this , the raiders would try to hide and be stealthy in their raids but after a few successes they start to get cocky and will eventually just walk right out in the open as if daring you to fight back . Seeing someone like this might be scary for an unarmed and terrified survivor but for someone who has weathered the apocalypse this is nothing more than a sign that this is one
a-hole that needs to be popped sooner rather than later .
6. The wildlife will be a far larger problem than most people will give them credit for . In two seperate states where I have lived there has been a constant problem with feral dogs , these are usually pets that were dumped by the side of the road and had to fend for themselves . These animals tend to be far more aggresive than wolves and coyotes and they have almost no fear of man . So they are often a greater danger , you can scare off a few wolves but feral dogs will rarley break and run , in fact they will likely chase you down and kill you . Also there is the added threat of animals that have escaped fom zoos , wildlife preserves and carnivals . You think things are bad with zombies after you , just wait until you walk around the side of a building and find yourself face to face with a
500 lb. lion that just decided it was time for lunch . Do you honestly think you can pull your gun before he starts tearing chunks out of you , personally i doubt it . In light of that it will make a lot of people reconsider that whole stay mobile approach . But on the plus side with the demise of so many humans there will be a population explosion for the various wildlife that the survivors would be hunting as game , since there would be fewer hunters and they wouldn’t be getting hit by vehicles or having their territory encroached upon by people . Also the fish population would increase as there would no longer be that many humans catching them in large quantities and since they would be living longer they would also be getting bigger .
Heres a little story for you all . In indiana there is a hiking route that follows an old abandoned train track . One day a woman was hiking along that trail and she was attacked and killed by five wild dogs . If my memory is correct she was armed with a 357 revolver and based on blood found it was determined that she hit at least one of the dogs and they still chased her down and killed her . To give you an idea of how violent these things are you should now that the coroner had to use two body bags to gather up the pieces of her body since the dogs tore her in half . Wild dogs aren’t these sad lost pets looking for a new master , they are like psychotic wolves on pcp . It is scary as hell when you find yourself facing a large pack of these things and it seems the longer they run wild the crazier thay get . So if it came down to it I would rather have walls around me than be mobile .
So in the short term yes raiding pays off , but in the long run your only setting yourself up for a bloody death at the hands of other survivors or some hungry wildlife that sees you as another piece of meat . So if you want to go out raiding because your to violent , stupid or lazy to carve out your own little niche then by all means give it a try but don’t be suprised when you end up with a few more holes in you than you started with .
3-15 INF on 12 Oct 2010 at 8:50 pm #
(slow clapping in applause) couldn’t agree more- well put
big bear29 on 12 Oct 2010 at 8:51 pm #
One thing that I think needs to be stated is that you need to do as much of your scavenging as soon as possible because the stores might not be there for to long . The first time there is a fire , whether natural or man made , in any city with groups of tightly clustered building or homes you could potentially see entire cities burn to the ground . It will be because there will no longer be firefighters to fight the fire and the automated fire fighting systems will no longer work due to the utilities being down , water and electricity . From a distance it would likely look like the scene in the movie ” 28 days later ” where they are driving and they see the whole town of manchester burning in the distance .
big bear29 on 14 Oct 2010 at 11:30 pm #
There is a book I would like to recommend it is ” Back to Basics : How to learn and enjoy traditional american skills ” . It has absolutley nothing to do with zombies , but it has a wide array of information on things like how to build your own house , raise and process livestock , grow crops , dig a well , store food , rig up a low tech power source , cure animal hides for use as clothing , how to make furniture and even how to make your own beer .
While the information does not pertain to zombie survival it does show how to thrive in a low tech enviroment . Which all the survivors will find themselves in , especially if the zombies are a long term threat for several years .
This book is about 450 pages long and there have been three seperate editions of this book printed in the last thirty years . It can usually be found on amazon and ebay for very little money , it is well worth the purchase .
big bear29 on 15 Oct 2010 at 2:03 am #
Also I would recommend the “anarchist cookbook” it tells how to create explosives and other things from household supplies which would prove very useful against the zombies .
I do not recommend that people try these out as you could wind up in a lot of trouble with the law and I doubt that they would believe that you were just preparing for the zombie apocalypse . Worst case you could wind up seriously hurt or dead and if the law gets involved you could get charged for terrorism or if they think you are serious about the zombies they might put you in a padded cell for a long time .
big bear29 on 16 Oct 2010 at 4:39 pm #
One thing that I think most scavengers would over look would be plactic hoses . I am not talking pvc here but the plastic hoses like are used in vehicles and certain appliances . Its best to have a spare radiator hose in your inventory rather than hoping that you can hold the existing one together with duct tape .
Also if you can find a supply of lead that could prove very useful . One place to look is on the side of tire rims , the crescent shaped weights that are place on the rim of a tire when it is balanced are almost entirely made of lead . These can be melted down over a camp fire or on a stove and can be used to make fishing weights or new bullets for your gun .
wheelgunner on 18 Oct 2010 at 1:20 am #
You know that you can go down to the local tire shop with a bucket and ask for those, right? The tire balance weights. They just throw them out when they are through with them.
big bear29 on 18 Oct 2010 at 5:30 pm #
@ wheelgunner
Yes I now that some shops throw them out but some hang onto them and reuse them . Plus I put that down as a scavenge item because it will likely be pretty easy to find in areas where the traffic got backed up and people abandoned their cars to escape on foot .
big bear29 on 22 Oct 2010 at 3:32 pm #
This isn’t really a scavenge item but if you come across a farm or ranch it would be a wise idea to release the animals . In the first few months of the outbreak you likely wouldn’t be able to take care of them so letting them go is the only realistic option other than leaving them to starve in their pens . And later once you get setup somewhere you can catch the animals for various livestock uses .
There are several ways you can catch the animals depending on what it is ( chickens , rabbits , pigs , goats , horses or cattle ) . For some of the animals you could use cage traps, pit traps or snares to catch their legs , although I recommend against the use of snares and pit traps as this could injure or kill the animal . Also if you can’t use any of those methods you could try chasing down the animals , but I doubt you would have much success with that . One method that you can use and I can personally vouch that this works is to take a bunch of deer feed or chicken feed and set it in a large feed trough and then pour in a lot of whiskey or beer . The feed will absorb the alcahol and when the animals eat the feed they will get drunk and pass out then you can just load up the animals and take them back to your farm . I have seen the game wardens in my area use this method when they needed to relocate a herd of wild pigs away from a residential area and they didn’t have the funding to tranq all the pigs , so it does work .
big bear29 on 27 Oct 2010 at 12:52 am #
REPOST
This is a repost from another topic :
Five Things to Consider When Preparing Your Zombie Defense Base
I am reposting because of all the scavenge items listed and because it can greatly enhance the chances of survival .
If you are in the countryside and have spare land around your house this is what you can do to bolster your defenses . Also this will save you some ammo in the long run .
1. THE ELECTRIC FENCE ( ZOMBIE BUG ZAPPER )
Here are a list of supplies you will need for this defensive measure , these are the recommended supplies but you can do it with less it will just take longer .
1. A FARM TRACTOR WITH THE ABILITY TO MOUNT ATTACHMENTS
2. POST-HOLE DIGGER , FRONT-END LOADER AND BACK-HOE ATTACHMENTS FOR YOUR TRACTOR
3. LARGE QUANTITIES OF QUICKRETE
4. ENOUGH CHAINLINK FENCE TO GO AROUND YOUR PROPERTY WITH SOME TO SPARE FOR POSSIBLE FUTURE REPAIRS
5. A LOT OF 4X4 BOARDS AT LEAST EIGHT FEET LONG
6. CLAMPS OR BRACKETS TO ATTACH THE FENCE TO THE POSTS
7. A CEMENT MIXER
8 . A SHOVEL
9. SEVERAL SETS OF QUALITY JUMPER CABLES
10. AT LEAST TWO OF THE PORTABLE ROADSIDE GENERATORS THAT ROAD CONSTRUCTION CREWS USE TO POWER THEIR FLOOD LIGHTS AND OTHER EQUIPMENT OR A COUPLE LARGE INDUSTRIAL WELDERS THAT HAVE THEIR OWN BUILT IN GENERATORS
11. TOOLS TO MOUNT THE FENCE AND BRACKETS TO THE POST (SCREWS , POWER DRILL AND PHILLIPS HEAD OR STRAIGHT HEAD
BIT AND A HAMMER)
12. LOTS OF GAS FOR THE GENERATORS AND THE TRACTOR
13. MARKER STICKS TO MARK WHERE YOU WANT THE FENCE . SOME ONE INCH BY ONE INCH BOARDS WILL DO , MAKE SURE THEY ARE
AT LEAST TWO FEET LONG
Once you have your supplies take the marker sticks and hammer them into where you want the fence to go . Then take the tractor and using the front-end loader dig a line along the boundry of the sticks . The line should only be four to six inches deep and about four feet wide . Now go through and and using the post-hole digger dig a hole about every five to six feet and be sure to dig it in the middle of the line . Now place the 4×4′s in the hole with a flat side facing outward . Now mix the quickrete in the concrete mixer and pour it in the hole and try to keep the posts as level as possible , also only fill the posthole not the entire line itself , that will be done later . Now that the concrete in the posthole has hardened fill in the rest of the line with the concrete , use the marker sticks and the shovel to spread the concrete out and keep it level with the ground , now let that harden . Now then attach your fence but make sure that your fence is one to two inches above the concrete to keep it from grounding out . Now you need to splice the jumper cables so that they are feeding electricity straight into the fence . Now when the zombies come along and are pressing against your fence just turn on the generators and fry them . You didn’t even have to use any of your ammo and when they are done cooking on the fence just turn off the generators and use the tractors back-hoe to dig a large hole in the ground that you can dump the bodies into for a mass cremation .
If any of you are wondering why I suggested digging a wide line or using wooden fence posts instead of metal I will explain . For the fence posts I suggested wood because it does not conduct electricity like metal and is the strongest non-metal post you will be able to get other than a concrete post . As for the wide line if there is any grass or brush rubbing against the fence it will ground it out making you’re electric fence useless .
Angryvikingman on 27 Oct 2010 at 2:16 am #
Grass and brush generally won’t ground out an electric fence very easily. As for making the whole chainlink fence eletrified, I’d rather not. Let me explain:
Assemble your fence as Big bear 29 suggests, except do not attach electricity to the chainlink part. Get some thick guage barbwire, and nail on insulators. Then attach the insulators to the posts on the outside of the fence. They will keep the wire from touching the post and the chainlink. Put one strand of barbwire per foot of height, and run a lead from the top wire to the bottom wire every five feet, this insures that all areas of the fence are getting the same amount of electricity and keeps the wires from becoming too overloaded with current and melting which can start fires.
Keeping a swath of open ground cleared around the fence is a good idea. Lay down some thick landscaping plastic and gravel 5 feet wide on each side of the fence and you won’t have to mow/weedeat inside or outside the wire.
Outside the wire and about 10 feet past the gravel, dig a trench 15 foot wide and 5 foot deep, bevel the edge closest to the fence to 45 degrees,then go old school with some wooden spikes pounded into the ground on the floor and beveled side of the trench. Make sure you have proper drainage. A zombie filled pungee moat will stink like hell. If all else fails, you can pour some kind of flamable liquid into the trench and burn as many zombies to death as you can during a last stand. Make sure and have your fence posts sufficiently wet before setting fire around your perimeter. You dont want a flaming zombie setting a post on fire and taking down part of your fence. (This plan can also work with metal posts. Probably better that way.)
big bear29 on 27 Oct 2010 at 5:49 pm #
When the outbreak happens one of the places that I plan to go to early on is the zoo to release some of the animals , specifically the elephants . The reason I would be doing this is because sooner or later it is going to become harder to find fuel for your vehicle and you will need some other form of tranportation . Personally I think riding around on an elephant shooting zombies during the apocalypse would be pretty cool , also their height would give you a better view of whats goining on around you and keep you away from the zombies . In some places people still do safari hunts while on the backs of elephants . Also with their size and thick skin the only real threat to them would be other human survivors .
wheelgunner on 07 Nov 2010 at 8:01 pm #
They are also nototiosly hard to train and care for, and are terrifying and unresponsive around dead things, blood, and fire…worst zombie hunting mount ever. They literally go insane. Been a bunch of armies over the years that have been crush by their own beserk elephants retreating over them. Mostly in India.
wheelgunner on 07 Nov 2010 at 8:05 pm #
Around here, we just wrap the hot wire a few inchs away from the fence, using a single strand. Use independant strands at differing heights as needed. It works.
big bear29 on 09 Nov 2010 at 11:41 pm #
The reason I suggested electrifying the whole fence is incase there are multiple zombies pressed against the fence , it would be more likely to support the weight than a single wire or even several wires .
Angryvikingman on 10 Nov 2010 at 4:05 am #
Yeah, barbed wire over chainlink like I suggested is the best of both worlds.
big bear29 on 26 Nov 2010 at 11:01 am #
Remember to scavenge at the pawn shops to . They alawys are a good place to find extra guns , tools and some hunting and fishing gear . They will be like overgrown treasure chests just waiting to be plundered and at first not that many people will think to check them out . After the outbreak if you hurry you could bolster whatever supplies that you are lacking necessary for your survival .
3-15 INF on 21 Jan 2011 at 2:57 pm #
I’ve been thinking of the argument of fortification vs. mobility. Unless a group of attackers has access to indirect fire weapons, it would be very difficult to lay siege to a large compound that has defense in depth.
Not only would the besieged have the advantage of a storhouse of supplies that mean they could outlast, making the attackers hungrier everyday they awaited outside, any noise made by the attack would attract the infected. Trying to fight a compound while constantly fending of infected attacks from all sides and the risk of exposing yourself to return shots from a dug -in defender would wear the attackers out quickly.
The reason that fortified emplacements are vulnerable is because of presence to seige machines, indirect fire and a cut off supply line. Most of that would be mitigated by the relatively low tech manner of warfare that would be present.
wheelgunner on 24 Jan 2011 at 1:57 am #
A fellow I know told me about the local SCA. Their solution for seiges was to convert a couple of ford trucks into ballista, using the leaf springs for the wings, I believe they are called.
Personally, if I could rig up a catapult or a trebuchet, I would pull an improve Genghis Khan and throw zombies into their compound. Best assault tactics would be old roman, building and enclosing wall around the enemy base to pen them in and repel the zombies. Best way to get trebuchet ammo.
Mortar tube wouldn’t be too hard to can think of a few ammo options.
You can put a light bulb filled with flamables onto the tip of an arrow with a lit cloth on the outside for minor indirect fire and distanced property damage. Fear the improviser, for he is god.
Coyoteseyes on 01 Mar 2011 at 11:48 am #
toilet paper .
TheCheese on 01 Mar 2011 at 8:50 pm #
No one even mentioned rope. Pots and even pans would be some of the most useful things to carry around. The stainless-steel kind would be be best. Anyone who’s smart is going to filter or boil their water before drinking it, and you don’t need a particularly large pot to boil enough water for a couple days. And also you can cook rice and pasta which are food items that would be largely overlooked by scavengers.
As for the threat of scavengers and raiders, I think that wouldn’t be much of a problem after the first month, and before the first year or so. Immediately after the first outbreak, (or after the first bombs fall) there will be a panic and mad dash for supplies, guns and food. But after the general collapse of society, (and when a lot of people succumb to the infection or radiation) raiding will most likely stop in light of the plentiful supplies left behind that aren’t defended by guns. But when those resources run dry, raiding will once again become common.
Feel free to chop me up, because I love to hear contrasting opinions and the flaws in my ideas/ strategies.
I think nuclear war would be an interesting topic to pick up on on this site as well, because it has some of the same principals as a zombie apocalypse (and is much more likely to happen).
wheelgunner on 04 Apr 2011 at 11:38 pm #
1. Don’t need a large pot to boil enough water for a few DAYS? What size do they make the pots where you are at?
2. We do one thing well on this site. And thats argue and zombies. ’nuff said.
3. As to all the educated guesses as to banditry and plentitude of available supplies, I am from the worst state in the Union, and I have ABSOLUTE faith in my species. We are wasteful, spoilt, ignorant, selfish, and Stupid enough to start making educated guesses about things dependant on how intelligent and farsighted we are as a race.
4. I know how to make rope.
5. If most people thought to boil water, we wouldn’t hve those catestrophic casualties ever time a natural disasters occur.
6. I have no idea why i’m using numbers. Banditry is those wastrel masses argueing, fighting, and killing over, or with, those collected resources, so that they can either have a surplus, or not have to go beyond the trouble of taking yours. Say, ten seconds to spring my trap and kill you versus the fourteen hours you spent sorting garbage for that backpack full of choice, carefully thought out supplies. Tell me you don’t think of a hundred people you’ve had contact with this week and you are a liar, or a fool. Sorry if you don’t like the taste of the the medicine, it’s all I got.