The Body Armor Dilemma
While there are without doubt a times when the chips are down the rounds are coming back at you where you want if not need body armor. But, the question is when fighting the undead, do you really need body armor? Or are you better off using the weight for other equipment.
Modern body armor is designed to stop a wide range of projectiles, from the low end Level II vest and general pistol rounds too Level IV vest with hard ballistic plates and even vests designed to hinder the lowly Taser. However, modern body armor is not designed to fight the undead, at least not in original design. It is also, and most importantly heavy.
The weight of modern body armor, is substantial. Low level vests can weigh as little as ten pounds while the top of the line military issue OVTs can weigh thirty pounds or more. With the ZAC standard rifle being the AR-15 each pound of weight that you carry means one less magazine you could be carrying instead, or extra food, commo equipment, or any number of other gear.
While those who are dealing with pocket of human resistance or positions where they may be taking fire from others may have a need for a ballistic vest, those fighting solely the undead do not have to, in most circumstances, worry about the undead shooting back. If the undead are not shooting back would that weight not be used better in carrying more ammo, gear, or just plainly lightening the load on the lowly grunt who is pulling the trigger against the undead.
Another consideration is that those wearing body armor who have turned may also pose a risk against the living, since if they turned in full body armor, helmet and all, it would mean that there would be the need to place a kill shot in a tight area as well as making it harder to kill them with non-firearm weapons. On the plus side though a zombie in full body would also be slower. Then again so would you in full kit.
The general seed that I am attempting to put forth is that you will need to be cognizant for the situation that you will be entering and preparing accordingly. However, when fighting the undead, toe to toe, gun to flesh, and machete to skull, full body armor is not a required. If the situation is uncertain perhaps a compromise would best serve you, perhaps a plate carrying Level IV standalone plates.
Comments (72)
Marty426 on 03 Nov 2010 at 7:56 pm #
I say that a high quality leather suit like the ones worn by motorcycle racers is all you would need. You are only stopping teeth, not bullets. Plus it is not that heavy, allows for freedom of movement, and will last for a long time. You may not even need the pants, maybe just a heavy duty leather jacket, and perhaps a helmet, some good boots and some leather gloves.
HangMan on 03 Nov 2010 at 8:10 pm #
I agree. In fact I don’t think I’ll spring for the suit. I have a good leather jacket I wear that will do fine.
wheelgunner on 03 Nov 2010 at 8:14 pm #
Kill it with fire? Kevlar can’y stop flames, and nothing works with it’s brain broiled.
McLuvin on 03 Nov 2010 at 8:57 pm #
This came up in a previous thread and my position has not changed. In the initial outbreak when everyone is going nuts and looting, a vest could be nice to have. This is the period when I will be out among the masses gathering as much gear as possible. I’ll be hitting the gun store down the block for ammo and the grocery store for non-perishables. Encounters with armed humans will be likely during this time. After the outbreak has had a chance to spread the living will be much more preoccupied with killing zombies to fight amongst themselves as much.
So, it would be nice to have at tines but not necessary.
3ID on 03 Nov 2010 at 9:11 pm #
my vest runs soft armor and hard plates after the shit settles down i would take out the plates and leave the soft armor mostly for that 1 level of safety i would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it any way soft armor only ways 4 lbs. 13 oz so that is worth it for me
big bear29 on 04 Nov 2010 at 12:38 am #
You could always get some of the chain mail that reenactors use for the reniassance fair , they sale that stuff online or some thick leather jacket .
You could also get a full length duster , buttoned up they can conceal most of your body and are usually made of several layers of materials . You could also make your own duster with pouches sewn into it to hold metal plates for added defense against bullets . Also the type of fabric used to make it could make it the only armor against the zombies that you really need , denim , leather or the thick canvas that military tents used to be made of .
Also you will need lower body protection so that the zombies don’t take a chunk out of your leg or your butt . You might want to hit up an academy store or another outdoors supplier . They usually have lightweight anti-snake bite armour that you can just strap on over your clothes . They sell alot of that stuff in my area because we have a high rattlesnake population , its why we have the West Texas Rattlesnake Round Up . This stuff is usually made of fiber-glass or plastic , it won’t stop a bullet but it will stop teeth and thats whats important .
As for fully armored allies getting turned heres an idea . Take an electric dog shock collar and rig up some explosives to it , preferably a shape charge , not much just enough to take out the zombies head or sever the spine . Now rig it up so that it can be detonated by the group leader or set it up so that if the persons heart stops the bomb automatically detonates . By doing this you can take them out without destroying the armor and supplies on the body . Make all your scavengers / team mates wear these .
McLuvin on 04 Nov 2010 at 8:02 am #
I don’t think I would want some bodged together explosive device strapped to my neck. Who in your group is enough of an expert to trust with that build.
Angryvikingman on 04 Nov 2010 at 8:43 am #
There’s not much I can’t do well, but I wouldn’t even think about attempting that unless I had some serious training.
big bear29 on 04 Nov 2010 at 10:19 am #
There are manuals on bomb creation and disposal out there on the market , that show how to make detonaters . Also in some hobby stores and radioshacks where they sell the individual electronic parts (diodes , transistors , capacitors , etc) they sell books that show you how to make individual circuits for alarms , infrared sensors , ham radios and even remotely controled switches (which can be used for detonaters) . I learned about how to put together circuitry while I was in college learning robotics , it is not that hard to make a detonater that works properly .
Angryvikingman on 04 Nov 2010 at 11:12 am #
Manuals are all fine and dandy, but some things you ought not to mess with until you have been properly trained. Making bombs is one of those things. If you ever hear of a (improvised) bomb maker that hasn’t been bitten by one of his own devices, then he isn’t a bomb maker or he just started. Gun powder and manual trigger devices (trip wires, ect.) is about as elaborate as I’d get IF I were to make a device. You need training and proper equipment to make devices of any sophistication.
3ID on 04 Nov 2010 at 12:30 pm #
when i hear that all i can think of is Fallout yes its a video game but they have those same devices they call them slave colliers if one of my guys gets bit he better man up and tell us, well i wont kill him right there i would let him saver those last moments then i would put a bullet in his brain pan.
the Duster with metal plates would be heavy and hot as hell and leather is great i would use it if i was going in to a CQB area that i know i might come face to face with some zeds other than that i would just were jeans T-shirt and my vest
big bear29 on 04 Nov 2010 at 2:15 pm #
@ Angryvikingman
To each their own . Making explosives and detonaters is a very precise , delicate and dangerous science but if you are careful you can make some devastating bombs . I know how to make bombs and detonaters and I still have all my fingers and toes , and have never had one go off in my face . If you are careful and thorough you can make explosives and detonaters in your own home . As for the comment ” If you ever hear of a (improvised) bomb maker that hasn’t been bitten by one of his own devices, then he isn’t a bomb maker or he just started. ” I have met and heard of improvised bomb makers that have never had one of their bombs go off and injure them . The people that have had their bombs go off in their face had it happen because they were careless , stupid or an ametuer .
@ 3ID
I agree with you about the duster , it would be heavy and hot , but since i’m a big guy I can handle the extra weight .
As for the bomb collars I suggested that in case your team mate was in full body armor , like Army of Two . If they have some sort of helmet to protect their head from bullets then it will be very difficult to take them down . And a bomb collar with a small explosive charge would be powerful enough to sever the spine of the zombie without destroying their supplies and armor . Also you have to realize that there is always that one guy that gets bit when nobody is watching and he doesn’t tell anybody because he doesn’t want to get shot . They always seem to think that they will be the only guy out of seven billion people to be immune to the virus and you don’t find out their infected until they attack you .
Docwade on 04 Nov 2010 at 8:55 pm #
I think you would end up in a group of one when you start trying to get people to wear your awesome bomb collars. Too much running man / fallout.
McLuvin on 04 Nov 2010 at 9:02 pm #
I’ll stick with my post. I’m not trusting anyone with that build. Not on my neck or anywhere near me.
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 04 Nov 2010 at 9:10 pm #
First off, nonprofessional bomb makers/self taught bomb makers tend to have QC issues since they don’t have the tools or resources of a bomb makers or EOD expert in a gov or mil role. Also, anyone handing me a explosive collar and going “here you need to wear this so that if I think I see you get bit I can blow your head off.” Is going to get a quick bullet and their gear taken. I’d rather have people searched coming me in to a place than some REMF holding the detonator to my ass. Another consideration, is the fog of war. Why it is probable that Kenny gets bit when no one is looking it is more probable that Major Richard Weed thinks he see you get bit tangoing with an overly friendly zed and pops your seal. Personally, institute a strip search of people coming into a base or ‘safe’ area to stop vectors, lose the collars and use the bang to make booby traps for zeds and other hostiles.
Now, if I do get bit then I want all the explosives that you’ve got. Preferably 5, 2,000 pounders all hook to detonate as one, both timer and command detonate. The timer in case I don’t make it so that it’s a sure bang. I also want a really big radio and a couple Godsmack CDs, and my AR and a couple of mags. Blare music until a bunch of zombies show and blow the lid off of the place. You can put my tombstone at the bottom of the hole. 3ID gets my 1911.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
killerb on 04 Nov 2010 at 11:08 pm #
Yes and No on the body armor. I agree with the posts that say they would wear it at the start of the outbreak and then as time went on they would drop it. No one really knows how the outbreak will happen! It could start slow or hapen over night. Scared people are going to shoot first and ask questions later so having a little more protection from the high speed lead will be a good thing. I for one am not all that scared about the Zeds but the thought of getting shot by a living person really makes me think. There is a saying “You will not miss your armor untill you need it!” But simly wearing the armor does not ensure that you will live through a firefight. Yes your vitals are covered but your limbs and head are left exposed. The truth is that people trying to kill a zombie will be shooting for the head. Military body armor has stopped glancing head shots but a solid hit from a high powered rifle will get through all military helmets. The level 4 body armor can stop rifle rounds but only in the places covered by plates. From the side you can still get killed. Legs and arms are another place that will be left vulnerable and if you have to reamain mobile then any wound in your legs could make you zombie food. Is it worth wearing if you already own it……YES. Is it worth spending the cash to get body armor if you do not have it……NO! Spend the money on food, ammo, and other survival related items. As far as wearing leather, or other bite proof types of clothing I firmly belive that is a loosing proposition. Keep on your toes, stay mobile for the first few months, and do not go anywhere alone and you should be able to avoid the zeds. If you get within bite zone then having a leather jacket on will not keep you alive. It will simply be torn off of you and you will die anyway. Wearing it for warmth OK for bite protection……NO.
CHEERS
3ID on 04 Nov 2010 at 11:36 pm #
@Kain WOOT
@killerb i like the point of if you got cool if not well buy some more ammo that works to
for me i will be wearing soft armor till i die i will ditch the hard plates when i see there is no real use for it and that is 8LBS right there that i can use for water food and ammo
McLuvin on 05 Nov 2010 at 7:14 pm #
Nothing to do with body armor but I like to remind everyone.
Remember, remember the Fifth of November,
The Gunpowder Treason and Plot,
I know of no reason
Why the Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.
big bear29 on 05 Nov 2010 at 8:08 pm #
I don’t mind if some one criticises my ideas and points out flaws in them . However I would ask that you put forth the small amount of effort to read the entire comment before posting your own . It was clear to me based on some of the responses , that some of you were reading just enough to form an opinion rather than reading all there was . Theres a saying ” don’t shoot your mouth off until your brain is fully loaded ” .
1. I suggested the bomb collar as a means of dealing with a heavily armored allie that has been TURNED , not one that has POSSIBLY been bitten . Which is why other than a remote detonator it would be set up to go off if your heart stopped . If you think your guy has been bitten go up and check him out .
2. The main reason behind the bomb collar idea is that people will get used to shooting at the head . Nearly all military helmets are designed to stop shrapnel and small arms fire , not the higher caliber rifles . They are also designed to give them limited coverage so that they have the mobility to look around and see what is going on around them . So some people might get the idea to make a reinforced helmet that can protect their face from zombies and stop higher caliber rounds , so that they don’t get taken out by a raider or trigger happy survivor . These helmets would likely be made to protect as much of the head and face as possible , making a head shot very hard to pull off .
3. I have no use for REMFs unless they are the support personnel that keep your supplies straightened out and bring you ammo when your @$$ is on the line . I have no need for a two bit pencil pusher who’s only job is to get other people killed . If you had read the entire comment you would have realized that the group leader would have had the detonator not some ^%&$head far from harm . It would be in the hands of the guy leading that team in the field , the person that is already making the decisions that effect their survival . If he saw that one of his team was missing a large chunk of his neck and trying to tear open another team member to get at the juicy goodness inside he would realize that that team member was now fighting for the life impaired and pop his top .
4. Based on everyones responses its pretty safe to say that you wouldn’t trust anything unless it has a famous brand name on it or has a goverment stamp of approval . After a while it will reach a point where you will be left with no choice but to rely on improvised weapons such as bombs . Since you are all so afraid to be near anything that wasn’t made in a factory it leaves me wondering how long you will survive , my bet is that you will last only as long as your ammo does .
5. I know just as many people that would be willing to wear one of those collars as I do people that would be willing to submit to a strip search , which ain’t many . Most people still have a hissy fit when they get so much as a pat down at the airport and thats a place where you should reasonably expect to get a pat down . So imagine how pissed they would get if some guy demands that the husband , wife , children , and possibly grandparents , all strip naked so that he can inspect them for bites . It is very likely that you would get shot and stripped of your gear . In hindsight it is unlikely that many people will be willing to go along with the strip searches or the collars . Possibly the only way you could be sure that someone isn’t infected without stiring up trouble would be to put them in a seperate building or house that acts as a quarantine area , until you know they aren’t infected .
6. These are ideas not set in stone commandments . ” THE ELEVENTH COMMANDMENT IS THOU SHALT WEAR A BOMB ON YOUR NECK , NOT ” . We are sharing ideas and strategies on this site , not setting bedrock ground rules on what you can and can not do during the outbreak . I realize you need to keep an open and flexible mind when approaching every idea and tactic and not just defend your own idea as the only possible way of doing something and tearing down everyone elses since theirs challenges it . Just because I don’t like an idea doesn’t mean that I need to tear into it like a starving jackal with a piece of meat .
big bear29 on 05 Nov 2010 at 8:09 pm #
let the flaming begin
McLuvin on 05 Nov 2010 at 8:30 pm #
Jesus dude. I don’t care what brand name it has on it, I’m not hanging explosives around my neck. Too many potential problems to risk losing people. If the guy is so well armored that you can’t shoot him, I question how he got infected in the first place. If his head and face are covered enough that you can’t get a bullet in, he probably can’t bite anyone anyway.
As a side note I would suggest you learn how to take criticism better.
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 05 Nov 2010 at 10:50 pm #
I am going to stand with McLuvin here, I don’t really care what name something has on it, if it is of quality manufacture then I’ll take it. If it is a piece of crap then it gets thrown away, sold, or used to fix something that has better merits. A weapon or tool that is of poor quality is not something that I am going to buy, I’ll pay more for something if it gives me something more. However, if something is made to crappy specs then I expect crappy performance. Sub par weapons can get you killed just as easily as an enemy bullet or tooth, thinking that you are going to survive with sub par weapons and things that ‘will do’ is not the best mentality to have when the chips are down. Now, if it’s all I’ve got then I’ll use it, if only to get something of better quality.
As far as the strip search vs bomb collar discussion goes. I think that if you gave people a choice between wearing a bomb collar which is going to be of substantial weight, at least a pound total. I’d imagine to make sure it get the job done, one, and two so that they can’t fiddle with it and remove it. Also, there is the is the possibility, however slim or good, that it may go off inadvertently, or accidentally, for whatever reason, it gets wet, microwave goes off, Richard Weed drops detonator, ect. Give them that option over a painless, albeit possibly demeaning strip search, and see which one they chose. I’d bet hard cash the ones who take the collar are already infected nine times out of ten. Just a hunch though.
Personally I’m of the mentality, my personal views, I want to be light fast, and mobile. I also want a comfortable distance between me and my foe, and if that not possible I want to control how the fight evolves. I do not want to be playing by the rules of my enemy, alive, or otherwise. If body armor helps me complete my objective then I’ll take it, if not, then I don’t really want. A happy balance is what I want, but have yet to find. A bomb collar is not my happy balance.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
Angryvikingman on 06 Nov 2010 at 12:17 am #
Yeeeeeeah….
I’d take a strip search over a bomb collar. First of all, you only let teams go outside the wire, and retrieve other survivors. When they get back, the team seperates the men and women. Women are searched by women, and men by men. The team and survivors are checked by medical, and if they’re bitten, they get quarantined. After they turn, they get 2 in the head, then they get chucked into a burn pile. No exceptions. Sorry. IF you get bitten and you’re on a team, you get a choice. Quarantine, or you can take one in the head while you’re still human.
3ID on 06 Nov 2010 at 4:39 pm #
WOAH, WOAH,WOAH, WOAH, WOAH, WOAH, WOAH, WOAH, WOAH, WOAH, WOAH, ITS FREEKIN BOMB COLLAR and if the government did make that is an even BIGGER HELL NO the thing would blow up before you got it on i have used government toys not that great
Also if they are that protected how did they get bite in the first place and i would and both of my friends that are play my xbox right now would agree to a strip search over a bomb collar any day
specially equipped Guardsman on 06 Nov 2010 at 7:40 pm #
How about a wristwatch/heart monitor/GPS/Transponder that beebs I’m a zombie if the wearer dies. seems a easier sell then strapping a freakin bomb to your neck.
big bear29 on 06 Nov 2010 at 9:47 pm #
For all the people wondering how the armored team member would get bit , it could be anything . Maybe a chink in the armor where you are not completely covered . He gets bit while using the bathroom and is to embarassed to tell you where he got bit or he gets bit while using the bathroom and his femoral artery gets severed and he dies quick before he can tell anyone . Maybe the guys into necrophilia and he spots a hot zombie chick , who knows use your imagination .
@ specially equipped Guardsman
The zombie beeper isn’t that bad an idea . I know that there are portable heart monitors and wristwatchs that monitor your heart rate , with some simple tweeking you could rig them up to start making noise when the person wearing them croaks . The only downside is that the noise could draw the attention of other zombies to your location . But you could use that to set up some booby traps if the zombies hunt by sound rather than sight . If the zombie with the beeper can’t bite you restrain it and put a crap load of remote detonated bombs on it , add small objects to it if anything is nearby ( nails , bolts , ballbearings , gravel , etc. ) , know dump it some where near a large group of zombies and let them get clustered all around it and BOOM . You just set off one massive anti-zombie claymore , those that don’t get taken out by the blast will be damaged by shrapnel , it probably won’t kill them but it will maim them and slow them down .
Angryvikingman on 06 Nov 2010 at 11:46 pm #
Armor for zombie lovin’ is called a condom. I recommend ye olde double bag. Still gross…
big bear29 on 07 Nov 2010 at 2:15 am #
I agree that that kind of thing is sick , but if you check out some of the other sites like this one , some people talk about weather or not they would do that and more than a few said they would . Also I think there have been a few posts on this site where people said they would do it .
p.s.
@ Angryvikingman
What did you think of “high school of the dead” .
Angryvikingman on 07 Nov 2010 at 10:10 am #
@big bear29
Downloaded a few, but haven’t gotten a chance to watch them. Been putting in a LOT of overtime at work and I have a new baby, so I have very little time for anything but sleep and that is whenever I can get it.
wheelgunner on 07 Nov 2010 at 7:41 pm #
You realize that helments of the “bullet-proofing” variety don’t come with face sheilds of any consequence, so face shooting still works. They also can and do take large caliber fire. One instant that springs to mind is a medic in Iraq that got shot by a Dragunov, 7.62×54 RR; he had a slight headache. They started redoing some things after Desert Storm.
Seriously, big bear, if your leader came to you and said put this dog collar charged with explosives that I, and only I, can detonate at will, you’d do it?
Also, are you always this testy, or are we just special? I am not trying to antagonize you, I am just curious.
Did you know that a simple t-shirt sized suit of mail weighs thirty pounds on average? If you want simple protection agianst bites and such, check out catcher’s gear and the like at a sporting goods store. Hard plastic, with multiple attachment points. The amount of metal required to stop a bullet is the reason we stopped having knights and quit using body armor for three hundred years.
Some of the arguements I’ve read actually look more like more of the “no meleemen need apply” arguements frm other threads. Amusing. However, in the event that I have this problem, unfortunately, melee combat or tactically withdrawing are the only options lest, and that is just the facts. I’m gonna put on my gas mask and go down swinging, but I do seem to be in the vast majority.
Though he did post it in utmost sarcasm, should we not draw up a list of absolute dos and donts for a thread, or something? It seems that it is a recurring issue, and as these things go, it is all abbout setting precidence. Just ask a lawyer.
Ronin666 on 09 Nov 2010 at 8:13 am #
Due to the fact that body Armour is illegal to own here and the fact that I’ll probably be one of the few people shooting, I’ll be happy with my bike leathers, tooth proof, comfy after years of breaking in and dammit I’ll look “Mad Max” cool.
McLuvin on 09 Nov 2010 at 9:54 am #
Leather, heavy denim, or canvas clothing will be optimum for bite protection. Body armor will be virtually useless against zombies since it leaves most high-risk areas uncovered. Like I said, if you have it use it when human interaction is likely. Otherwise it’s just added weight.
Upsetnorsedude on 09 Nov 2010 at 1:52 pm #
the thing with Zombie’s in full body armor including the helmet is that how is he able to bite you? There’ll be alot of head butting, but not biting…
big bear29 on 09 Nov 2010 at 2:06 pm #
They may not be able to bite you but they could try and tear you open . Although nobody really knows what we would face in an actual outbreak it is likely that the zombies would try and tear their prey open to get at the internal organs like you see in some of the zombie movies ( land of the dead , survival of the dead , shaun of the dead , the walking dead ,etc ) .
McLuvin on 09 Nov 2010 at 5:11 pm #
I don’t think the human body is as easy to rip apart as those movies suggest. Unless the virus somehow increases strength while the muscles rot.
@upsetnorsedude
First of all, Really?
Second, I brought that very question up earlier. If they are so armored how did they get bit in the first place and how are they going to bite you?
big bear29 on 09 Nov 2010 at 9:45 pm #
@ McLuvin
This was the first paragraph of post 26 .
” For all the people wondering how the armored team member would get bit , it could be anything . Maybe a chink in the armor where you are not completely covered . He gets bit while using the bathroom and is to embarassed to tell you where he got bit or he gets bit while using the bathroom and his femoral artery gets severed and he dies quick before he can tell anyone . Maybe the guys into necrophilia and he spots a hot zombie chick , who knows use your imagination . ”
I happen to agree with you partially , the human body is very diffucult to tear apart but it is not impossible to tear it open . Just think about how easy it is to tear your skin open when you fall off a bike , or trip and land on some gravel , brush up against a jagged piece of metal or even get attacked by an animal . Our flesh gives us some protection from harm but it is not armor and it can be torn open if enough force is applied , which people are capable of doing .
Also the strength of a zombie would be dependent on the types of zombies that we end up facing in the outbreak .
If it is a rage zombie that is on a permanent adrenaline rush they could be stronger than a normal person , but with that much adrenaline in their system for an extended period of time their organs would begin to fail pretty quick . Unless it is something like the infected people in the movie ” I am Legend ” , were they adapted and changed into an almost whole new being .
If it was a traditional romero zombie they likely wouldn’t be any stronger than they were when they were alive and as time goes on
their strength would decrease as their bodies rotted .
If it is a zombie like in the resident evil franchise we are so screwed . Although they are just games they do unknowingly highlight one possibility , that as time passed and the disease mutated so to would the infected host mutate . In those games you can end up facing zombies that have mutated to become bigger , stronger , tougher and just plain harder to put down and keep down .
Also here is something for you to ponder , there is a chemical produced in our brains that limits our physical strength to one fifth of what it actually is . It does this so that our bodies don’t damage themselves because we have the potential to lift more weight than our bones can safely support . I learned this in my high school biology class . Sometimes you will hear stories about how a mother and child were in a car accident and the mother lifted the car up enough for the child to get out from under the car . These are rare occasions but they do happen , what it is is that the person got a massive adrenaline rush and that temporarily overode the chemical barrier in their brain which allowed them to access their full strength . Now if we end up facing an undead zombie and its normal bodily functions have all ceased then it is possible that the chemical that limits their strength would no longer be getting produced in the zombies brain , which means that we could be facing zombies that are five times stonger , faster and possibly more agile than people .
which means we could end up facing some kind of
zombie hulk\ninja . Simply put this would suck @$$ because if they ever find us we would be slower , weaker and less agile than they are , which would put us at a serious disadvantge .
big bear29 on 09 Nov 2010 at 9:46 pm #
If I can find out what the name of that chemical in the brain is I will post it later .
Kain - ZAC Weapon Consultant on 09 Nov 2010 at 11:34 pm #
I think Big Bear is referring to endorphins, as Robin Williams so eloquently put it once, “it’s the body’s way of tell you, ‘if you keep this shit up, I’m going to hurt you.’” Not a bio major but I do believe he’s on the right track, with it though. I’d think of it as a built in fail safe so we don’t over exert ourselves on a daily basis, but under dire circumstances we can seriously do more than what we think, the trick with that is controlling it. But, that is a whole other discussion and I don’t feel like writing a term paper on theory at the moment on how the body can react to highly stress inducing situations. Short term increases in strength as well as the body being pushed far beyond it’s known limits are not unheard of, though you are going to really feel it the next day. A virus that takes away the ability for the body to regulate itself and not to damage itself though would mean that a zombie would have, for at least a little while, greater perceived strength compared to the person it once was. On the up side, the body would wear down quickly. On the down side, if the brain is simply boiled in a fever like in the Walking Dead but without the dead effects, then we might have bigger problems than just shambling zombies. If the brain is cooked enough, or the virus only effects the ‘upper’ portions of the brain then we might have zombies that are faster, more agile, and whom possess basic hunting skills and maybe even reasoning abilities. But, again, the upside is that you won’t have to worry about only taking head shots, the respirator, and circulatory systems would almost certainly have to continue to work for them to be able to move that quickly. Also the bodies would need food and your are back to the 28 Days and 28 Weeks Later types of ‘zombies’ leave them without food and they starve. Down side, well if they feel no pain you are going to have to make your shots count on target that is not just walking towards you but on a predator that wants to eat you and is actively hunting you. Welcome back to the bottom of the food chain.
“They won’t get me they won’t get me thought they never cease to try
they won’t get me they won’t get me I would rather fight and die
they won’t get me they won’t get me well my friend will they get you?
when they get you when they get you tell me what are you gonna do?”
Dropkick Murphys – The Gauntlet
Semper Cogitant on 14 Nov 2010 at 10:21 pm #
Wow. walking around with an explosive collar huh? You know that if it is set of by an electrical impulse then walking by strong transmitter or into any kind of electromagnetic field could blow your head off. Radio station transmitter, power plant, downed wires, some ham operator running a huge amp now that the FCC is no longer nagging him. No IED around the neck for me thanks, if I get zombified my companions will have to take me out the old fashioned way.
As for armor, right now I’d be wearing my riding gear, heavy synthetic material with harder armor over the areas likely to be hurt in a crash, full coverage with gloves and work boots, wrists and ankles closed with duct tape to prevent openings. Motorcycle helmet too with the visor up so I don’t loose peripheral vision. If things are bad enough that I think I need id down then I try to make up for the loss by constant side to side scanning. The vulnerability is the neck, but given a couple of minutes I could seal that with more duct tape and scrap leather or ballistic nylon. It’s pretty safe in a zombie situation, thought it won’t stop bullets. I’ve yet to convince myself to buy proper body armor, it’s quite an expense, with that much money I think I’d rather buy another gun.
johnny z on 18 Nov 2010 at 8:04 pm #
duct taped seams sounds good in theory but it will not work in that scenario. Duct taping leather, nylon or head gear together would be incrediably unreliable and one that depends upon it to save their life would find out the hard way that it is no match for those cold hard hands grabbing and ripping through. Think about it go duct tape something together the best way u can. Then try pulling the items apart. U can even with no wear and tear and if u can a reanimated version of u or someone else can. I reccomendcustom making a zombie jump suit well before. Use canvas or those heavy duty cloth tarps. Stitch it with paracord using brass orings when piercing the material. Make it with the mindset that your life depends on it. Mine I have a heavy duty drop cloth w paracord seams, a heavy duty sipper running up the front center cover alls style, but also heavy duty straps sewn onto the outside straight jacket style wrapping around my waist stomach and underarms. This seems excessive, but u want something u can count on when overrun with the undead. Denim and leather will bust at the seams with 7 walkers trying to tear into u. I’ve busted both accidently doing my regular routine. Think not only biting but ripping and tearing. My suit is weak at the transition between the canvas and my boots all I have are some regular stitched nylon straps sewn at the ankle and the mid calf (the same set up as my chest, with a zipper down the sides). I can’t come up with a practical way to attach a durable pair of shoes to my zcoveralls. So for now they slide over the outside of my 18″ boots and I tighten the straps. I don’t like it because it isn’t practical to walk around in these. So for the emergency zsuit to work I have to put on these boots.
At the wrists I have sewn a pair of gloves using the paracord. I went with leather (yes leather I’m screwed if multiple geeks isolate my hand.) But they are road rustler brand heavy heavy duty. I use them when welding and as allpurpose, and haven’t ever wore a pair out.
The face and head are a little more complicated. I spent more time and money on these materials than the whole suit. I formed the canvas into a hood that flips up onto the head first. ( the neck is vulnerable so I bought a kevlar neck roll from another zombie site I will post the link later)
johnny z on 18 Nov 2010 at 8:57 pm #
To The neck gear is “centurian neck protection w/ black kevlar” purchased from http://www.theundeadreport.com this is another piece and I don’t like my suit being multiple pieces because it both takes more time putting it on and is more to carry. My face is protected with a clear osha approved face shield that I cut to fit inside my catchers mask. I removed the elastic bands and used my nylon strap system stitching the straps permantly to the hood wrapping allthe way around my head (twice once on top and then again coming low around the jaw.) The mask can be removed completely, but I leave it fastened on the left folding it into the hood when stored. I re rigged the neck protector withparacord to lower my overall noise level and to reinforce it. To keep the whole hood from being ripped off my head ( and to keep the geedz from breaking my neck backward). I fastened another pair of straps on the inside of my z coveralls running up both sides of the chest zipper attaching to the bottom of the neck guard (the hard one on the bottom of the catchers mask). This all cost me right around $375 and took me about 8 months to build. I am very pleased with it. I want to take.it to the police dept and test it on the dogs to know for sure. I have ideas of stitching pockets and pads to it, but I haven’t ever gotten serious about that yet. If anyone sees any flaws or ways for me to improve it by all means let me know!! That is why I wrote this extremely long blog. To describe it all. And to help give anyone out there that needs it. I seriously wouldn’t trust duct tape, leather, or denim as major zombie protection. Also I need to mention I didn’t do all this on my own. There were 4 of us we are engineering students at UAH
johnny z on 18 Nov 2010 at 9:46 pm #
There are also 4 suits in existance all very similar. We all met by taking the zombie survival class at the university. (Its an elective not an engineering requirement).
Onto further topics listed here
There us no way in **** I would ever hang an explosive around my neck, or ask anyone in my team to. That is an unnessary risk. My solution to the issue of group members being bit is upon returning to a safezone or camp giving the option to either a strip search or a football helmet modified to have a chain attaching where the chin sreap should, wrapping loosly around the neck and padlocked on the other side. This allows the human in question to meticulously eat and drink without the possibility of taking it off, and if they turn they can’t bite only tear this is still a threat, but a more tolerable one. Also the person wearing it will probably eventually get sick of it and agree to the search if they aren’t infected.
My theory on zombies and endorphins is they will not be hulk/ninjas. However I do believe they will be fast each for about 3 to 5 days.(if they have just been bitten and do not sustain any serious muscle tissue loss during their exposure to the virus). They will be relentless running at 8 mph never tiring never feeling pain or sleepiness only driven by the urge to devour. After that no matter how much they eat their muscles and joints will be hard and rotting even if its max brooks solamon virus that slows the decay process way down the zombies will be the speed of those in amc’s the walking dead.( lumbering slowly but able to close at about a human speed walk) I believe the stomach acids will not rott out their stomach it will be eliminated by the virus. The reason for this is the virus want to thrive (keeping the body as intact as possible) and spread (so it makes its host crave flesh). This stage will last up to a year. Then they will be like the zombies in night of the living dead barly able to walk, but still carrying the virus. After abput 5 years they will have eventually rotted away.
I have a theory and a question. The stomach acids will have to be eliminated by the virus to preserve the host, but the host is made to desire flesh. Therefore ther will be some zombies that appear pregnant because the flseh piles up and up and up in their stomachs. Then their stomachs will inevitably explode spilling its contents back out into the world leaving a huge gapinghole in the midsection. So we will have zombies eating flesh that falls right out of them? Or will we have zombie that somehow digest meat and are constantly seeping the waste from it out the other end?
big bear29 on 20 Nov 2010 at 10:30 pm #
If the zombies where not subject to exhaustion they could likely run further and faster than you think . The average human can run at speeds of 8-13 mph but people who are in fairly good shape can run even faster . Some of the olympic runners hit 25 – 27 mph in the 100 to 200 meter sprint , while not all zombies would be this fast it is likely that the zombies could exceed normal human speeds . Also they wouldn’t need to stop to catch their breathe so they could likely maintain a high pursuit speed longer than their human victim could try to outrun them . All that I have to say is that you better hope you only get chased by a fat slow zombie rather than a skinny fast zombie .
World War Ted on 24 Nov 2010 at 8:13 pm #
If you were going to wear armour, you need it light to move fast but effective when you need it. I’d go for scale armour made from cheese graters.
If Zac gets to you and starts clawing away, his fingers get shorter.
Clifford "Ozzie" Nicolen on 27 Nov 2010 at 12:55 pm #
GRR!
Everyone has a zombie hunter patch now? Where do you get them, I need one for my beloved US Military pack that’s been tricked to be a zombie survival pack!!
Lordmattu on 29 Nov 2010 at 8:44 am #
PLEASE DONT TRY THE REINACTOR CHAIN MAILS!!
I am from Poland and now live in Germany I have had different mail armors and I can say that the film mails are 4in1 cheap stuff out of low quality material and without rivets!
What you would like to have is a medievil 8in1 OR even a 10in1 but BOTH! in Titanium AND witch rivets! about 8-10 MM diameter
(when you got slashed the cheap stuff deforms and breaks because the rings are not closed there like an U and just closed on the open side
With Rivets there its like Hoarseshoes the endigs are closed AND NAILED together so that they cant open.
BUT!
real chainmaisl are heavy the ones I Would recomend (If you would prefer a real chainmail) range between 50 and 60 lbs.
Plus there quite noisy so if you want do be a Sneaky ninja dont get those but if youre the Last standing samurai it is a Must have!
(I Prefer Riot suits or speedfreak motorcycle leather suits.)
Thunderhawk on 05 Dec 2010 at 11:13 pm #
What about the specialized “Shark Mail” for divers? but anyway I may have said this in another post but I’m going with a Vietnam era Flack Jacket and a cup… because I definitely don’t wanna get bit down there…
3-15 INF on 09 Dec 2010 at 1:09 pm #
I only see armor as protection from others who have guns from an instantly fatal hit- won’t really help against being drawn and quartered by a crowd. Just make sure they never get that close to you without a barrier.
Morgan. on 12 Dec 2010 at 8:40 pm #
You could use US Army issue IBA’s. Just take the plates out and leave the Kevlar soft armor in. They’ll stop frag to 9mm and most deffinently prevent bites. The vest’s Molle system would be handy for holding mags,camelback,knife,etc.
McLuvin on 12 Dec 2010 at 9:23 pm #
A vest is a waste of time for bite protection. The torso is probably least likely to get bit. Appendages would be much more likely. It could be handy if you get into trouble with other humans.
...desert... on 20 Dec 2010 at 9:52 am #
first for Armour you first need to protect your less
dominant arm with something, for myself im planing on making a
bracer out of some anti theft mesh i found when i was moving. ill
make this as soon as the shed goes up and i will post pics but
until then i will use duct tape to cover my arm if i happens within
a weeks time. The natural reflex is to defend your torso and head.
the end product should turn out pretty lite. it wont protect my
hand because that would make it unmanuverable and i will only use
it on one side of my wrist my left arm the stuff bends nice. it
does fold over for the edges so it should look pretty neat. what
big bear talked about sounded a lot like left for dead if an
average person was to run at the same pace as an olimpic athlete
for even 50m the would pass out due to lac of oxygen and it would
be imposable to without the respiratory system. that aside i do
believe it is a possibility.
wheelgunner on 23 Jan 2011 at 4:00 am #
I wonder if you could get away with dealing with a zed the same way you deal with an attack dog. Give it a protected area to latch on to, so that you don’t have to armor everything.
Angryvikingman on 23 Jan 2011 at 2:04 pm #
If you kept it pinned up enough in the same area, then it could become territorial.
wheelgunner on 23 Jan 2011 at 3:40 pm #
I meant that when an attack dog attacks, they usually latch on to whatever part of you they bite. Had a buddy that used to train them. When you train them, you wrap up, say, an arm, and then thrust them arm out when they lunge. The instinct of the dog is to bite the nearest thing and hold on, so you can trick them into grabbing the protected area, instead of you throat or some such. Just wondering if yall thought a zombie could be tricked the same way.
Angryvikingman on 23 Jan 2011 at 6:16 pm #
Hmmm…. Its possible, but why would you want to try it.
big bear29 on 23 Jan 2011 at 8:29 pm #
I got a better idea just shoot the $@*^ thing before it can get close enough to bite you . It might go for your arm or it might just grab onto it so it can pull itself close enough to rip your throat out . Better not to risk your life to find out . Now if you have an idiot in your group that is dead weight that nobody likes you could always try and get him to do it and if it proves to be a fatal idea you still win . You have proven that the idea is a no-go and gotten rid of a liability .
wheelgunner on 23 Jan 2011 at 11:53 pm #
Just had a passing thought about whether it would work or not. Scenario like you get surprised or don’t have your gun, any reason they got that close for any part of this thread to matter. It could but you a little time to get out of whatever got you into that position in the first place.
Seriously, why would I just go throw my arm into a zombies mouth if I still had options?
Monkeybarsixx on 31 Jan 2011 at 9:55 pm #
if u have a kevlar armor where are u going to keep ammo, food, water, stuff like that. I would go more with a light leather type armor with some kind of duster or coat so i can keep ammo in it. And i would also have some kind of back pack.
GotUR12GetMY6 on 03 Feb 2011 at 11:02 am #
@ everyone,
dude’s,
zombie day will be a fucking free for all…..do your own thing
wheelgunner on 09 Feb 2011 at 3:10 am #
@GotUR12GetMY6-No offense meant here, but I beleive that that is the single biggest waste of space on the entire site.
GotUR12GetMY6 on 09 Feb 2011 at 10:55 pm #
Dude for one it’s gonna be who can move the fastest, plus who the fuck would put C4 around there neck?!? Idiots
wheelgunner on 10 Feb 2011 at 1:36 am #
That would be bigbear. And the fastest doesn’t always win.
wheelgunner on 10 Feb 2011 at 1:40 am #
And, who is the bigger fool; the man who makes a suggestion to try to keep the group as a whole safe, or the coward who stands behind the wall he built to protect you and hurl insults at him? You choose.
What is your opinion on a welders jacket or suit? It’s durable, has nothing to snag on, and would be stupidly hard to bite through.
big bear29 on 10 Feb 2011 at 11:36 pm #
@wheelgunner
The welding jacket isn’t a bad idea and they can be found at just about any welding supply store . The suits are a little harder to find and most of the ones that I have seen are not made of the tough leather like the jackets and aprons .
@GotUR12GetMY6
In africa they have a saying . You don’t have to be faster than the lion just faster than the other guy .
If I was getting chased by a zombie and I was with a person who was more trouble than they were worth I would just shoot them and let the zombie have them for lunch while I escape .
QAZZY on 15 May 2011 at 6:31 pm #
Shark mail would work best (shark bites are a hell of a lot stronger than zombie ones), but mostly on appendages (relating zombie attacks to knife fights, the thing that sticks out first and is easily grabbed gets hurt first). A zombie would have a hard time biting or scratching your torso. Maybe weaving something out of nylon monofilaments (very tight weave) would work for bites, but full body armor isn’t necessary.
Another good example would be dog attacks. Where does the dog bite you? Not the torso (dog jaws are bigger than human, and they have trouble managing a torso bite), but your arms or legs, neck at worse. I’m not wasting my energy lugging around body armor (Kevlar is heavy, running around Afghanistan with it and a ton of gear really helps you realize it). Plus, zombies (hopefully) can’t shoot you. Kevlar is out.
Graey on 22 Jun 2011 at 11:27 pm #
Hey guys. Important thing here:
There is one great advantage to body armor. I used to take taekwondo for a while, and some of the sparring gear has inch-thick covers for the forearms and shins, and the arms are most definitely are the best places to protect in hand-to-hand. If you’re out of ammo and dropped your gun with the damn things a few feet away, it helps to have as much protection as possible.
In this case, if a zombie ever reached over and tried to bite your arm, it would end up sinking its teeth into an inch (far bigger than any human’s teeth) of multi-layered fabrics.
They also don’t hinder mobility, and mean that you can effectively use your arms as a buffer zone between you and any zombie with a significantly lower risk of infection. A few feet can save your life!
Reaver on 27 Jun 2011 at 1:22 pm #
just going to throw this out there. wearing kevlar sleeves to guard forearms, gloves, foot and leg prtection is your best bet. basically guard the extremeties. your torso is less likely to be bitten than the parts that stick out. think about this- walking through tall grass, legless Z feels hungry and your foot comes down next to him. that’s when I’d like to be wearing leather combat boots and denim.
Graey on 27 Jun 2011 at 10:33 pm #
Honestly I think that body armor an be a very good thing… sometimes. It really depends on your situation. Say you’re on the move and in a very small group, you probably wouldn’t want to have anything that you didn’t absolutely need, and body armor would just add weight onto your backs.
However, in a case where you’re holed up in a makeshift fortress and have a few tactical vests to spare, probably best to give them to whoever’s on guard duty at the time, and rotate them around to protect the most vulnerable and most visible people. In that case you’re not going to have to lug it around very often, and you’re also a lot more likely to succumb to armed, living bandits than to slow, clumsy zombies climbing over your ten-foot high concrete walls.
OliverCthulhu on 10 Jul 2011 at 12:50 am #
What about Samurai armour? The samurai had leather armour that protected their head, body, arms and legs. They’re quite light too, since its leather. And on the plus side, if a person wearing samurai armour were to turn, bullets would easily pass through.
I don’t have one but I’m contemplating on whether this is a good kind of body armour.
P Cheng on 13 Aug 2011 at 2:33 am #
Samurai armor is made of leather and leather, lacquer, wood, and sometimes metal scales. It would probably be somewhat impractical since they were designed for combat against armed opponents.
Law enforcement agencies and military bodies usually have “riot gear” that’s designed with mobility and protection in mind. Also, remember that many zoos and veterinarian hospitals have gear that’s specifically designed against scratching and biting animals. I also remember that some meat cutting places (local supermarkets, butchers, slaughterhouses, &c.) have gloves and aprons that are designed to be anti-puncture, because they work with really sharp knives. I imagine that those things will work against teeth and nails as well.
Keep in mind that some anti-ballistic armor are not really graded for cqb. I don’t really know how that works, but I am aware that certain bulletproof armor systems are vulnerable to knife attacks. Go figure.
I live near an armory and I suspect that all one really needs is a good anti-ballistic riot shield. You might not even need a weapon if you have a superior position and you can just push zombies away and run.
Oldefarte on 27 Nov 2011 at 8:23 pm #
You cannot answer a question without first defining the issue. So, in discussing “body armor”, the first question is “against what”? If we are talking “Walking Dead” type zombies, then virtually ideal armor would be that available for BMX and/or Motocross racers (including a fully enclosed helmet), it’s light, hard enough to stop a bite and available in components so that you can armor up as much or as little as needed (from arm and leg coverage only to full body, including back, front, shoulders, arms, legs, and hands – just add steel toe boots). It would also protect against blood spatter and is highly maneuverable. Every time I watch “The Walking Dead”, I wonder why nobody has thought to loot an “extreme sports” store for this kind of gear (or why nobody hotwires one of those Army “Stryker” vehicles – sure beats an old RV).
Alternately, reenactor suppliers sell butted steel ring chainmail hauberks (adequate for zombie bites) for <$150 with coifs (for head and neck protection) going for around $50. Mailed gloves can be had for < $80. Unfortunately, that weighs about 40 lbs and still leaves the legs unprotected. Alternately fine mesh, mail gloves and ultralight, small ring, welded mail (< 10 lbs total) are available from butcher supply houses, but are pricier (about $350 for the set). Much lighter but less full coverage (no head/neck/extremity coverage).
By contrast, ballistic armor, designed to stop most, but not all pistol bullets (Kevlar), is both extremely expensive and bulky/heavy (and provides no extremity protection, tho' Kevlar gloves are available). To get to a level of protection necessary to stop assault rifle ammo requires the addition of ceramic plates and would be so heavy as to be a positive hindrance if used to protect against zombies (as opposed to looters and rioters). Moreover, it would be largely ineffective against the type of hunting rifles a lot of individuals might resort to using. Since zombies are probably not going to be packing heat, it's dubious that it would be at all useful against the depredations of the undead.
If the concern is protection against infection, any number of surplus dealers offer British and/or American "NBC" (nuclear, biological, chemical) suits for as little as $15 for a full outfit and gas masks can he had for as little as $19. Chemical gloves can be bought (with liners) from outfits like "Sportsman's Guide" for as little as 20 sets for $12.
Oldefarte on 02 Dec 2011 at 12:55 am #
I just happened to watch an episode of “Myth Busters” in which they tested the efficacy of spray-on “truck bed liner” in a variety of applications (the stuff is actually amazingly effective). One of the uses was to spray a jacket with it and then to have an attack dog attempt to bite through it. Despite a bite force of over 450 lb./sq. inch, the dog couldn’t even inflict a bruise, let alone break through and break skin.
NOW, you couldn’t use this stuff on the whole jacket, because it makes it too stiff to maneuver, however, sprayed on the forearm of a jacket (where it would not interfere with a joint articulation), it would prevent a zombie from inflicting a bite on an exposed part of the upper extremity (critical if you consider what would happen in close combat with an undead attacker). You could also spray other areas of the jacket and pants and, as long as you were careful to maintain adequate articulation, you could make a pretty competent, ultra-light, “field expedient” suit of body armor, adequate to stop a zombie bite.
Yeah, I know, I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it, but this stuff literally stops a car from breaking a bumper in a collision (the uncoated side crumpled like an egg).