Pistols in the Zombiepocalypse

Author: Angryvikingman
Submitted: 05 Sep 2011
Filed under: Uncategorized &Weapons

257 Responses to “Pistols in the Zombiepocalypse”

1. Angryvikingman on 05 Sep 2011 at 10:01 am #

   I was thinking about getting one of those Para P14s, but then I saw the price and realized I can get 2 of those K2s and holsters for them for the same price.

2. McLuvin on 05 Sep 2011 at 11:41 am #

   I’m all about 9mm for zombies. It’s a great balance. It’s light enough you can carry a bunch without getting too weighed down. Capacity is a big plus as well. Most 9s hold 15+ rounds in a normal grip that fits most people. Extended mags are available for most popular models too.

   If the time comes I’ll have my Glock 17 and 2 17Ls. I can currently load 927 rounds in mags for my Glocks so I probably wouldn’t even carry all my mags. Most likely I’d split that into 3 loadouts so I could arm a few friends.

   I’d also take my suppressed Ruger .22 for quiet work.

3. McLuvin on 05 Sep 2011 at 11:45 am #

   FYI: Browning makes the Buckmark Ruger makes the MKII/III.

4. Angryvikingman on 05 Sep 2011 at 12:03 pm #

   Facepalm. Fixed.

5. Doom on 05 Sep 2011 at 12:30 pm #

   I personally like the Springfield XDm 9mm. I have two of those and one XDm .45. At 19+1 for capacity (9mm) its a pretty good compromise. While I wont argue that a .22 is lethal enough, lets be realistic. Zeds wont be our only enemy in those dark times. Our fellow man will prove to be a far more dangerous adversary.

6. Semper Cogitant on 05 Sep 2011 at 5:01 pm #

   The short answer is whatever pistol you have or can find when the time comes. If you are lucky or smart enough to live in an area where you can carry then it’s going to be your daily carry gun. If not it will likely be whatever the police carry in your area.

   If, however, I stipulate that I’ll be at home when the time comes and I don’t have to worry about budget, then these are my ideas:

   I’m a 1911 guy, always have been. I’d want a pair of high capacity 1911 style 45s. Those Paras above are great. With two of those and tree extra mags each that’s 114 rounds.

   However, I think another viable option would be a pistol and carbine than use the same magazines. If you have the Beretta Px4 and Cx4 you’d have the pistol as a backup or for use in tight quarters and the carbine for medium range. I think it’s hard to find both in .45, but they do exist.

   For myself it would probably be the 1911 and an AR-15.

   Many people are not fans of .45, but I am. You get a few extra shots with 9mm, but the problem with 9mm is that the high velocity small projectile often goes straight through a body with a considerable amount of energy left. Certainly a brain shot is still instantly fatal, but anything else is unlikely to stop, or even slow down a zed. It also results in a significant risk to anyone down range of your target.

   A .45 is much more likely to dump all of it’s energy into the target and has a better change of knocking down the target. It is also less likely to be a risk for your partner scavenging across the street.

   Maybe I could carry frangible ammo for the two P14s? That, plus the magazines would put the initial cost up near $5k with tax. I think I’ll stick with what I have.

7. Reaver on 05 Sep 2011 at 9:21 pm #

   I like the para, why not throw the H&K USP in as well though?

8. Angryvikingman on 05 Sep 2011 at 10:31 pm #

   LOL, cuz its fugly.

9. Docwade on 05 Sep 2011 at 10:37 pm #

   It’s hydraulic shock that knocks down a body. Not the energy of the projectile “knocking it over”. If that were the case, when you fired your weapon, it would knock You over. Equal and opposite vector forces blah blah blah. Zeds don’t use a circulatory system.

   HK USP’s are nice, but even now, hicap mags are hard to find, expensive, AND they’re delicate.

   I like 9mm. I’ve dabbled with 45acp, but always come back to 9. I own a Beretta Storm carbine in 9mm. The downside of the hiccup magazine in either a pistol or carbine is, well, the high capacity. You will burn through ammo. If you’ve done any kind of action shooting: steel plates against time for example; 500 rounds, which is a bit to have on your person, just doesn’t last very long. Now what if that was the last 500 rounds you were able to find in 6 months of careful scavenging? Would you even WANT to blow through it?

10. wheelgunner on 05 Sep 2011 at 10:51 pm #

    Uberti 1879 Schofeild in .45 Long Colt. I gotta represent my wheelguns here boys. Mine has been a work horse for three years now. Accurate, dependable, and easy to reload, for a revolver. I’ve reloaded it one handed a time or two, in a pinch. It also skins leather like an s.o.b.

    The recoil is easily managable out of the 7-8 inch barrel, I forget, but because of the design it’s actually about the same size as a Colt SAA with a 4 1/2 inch barrel.

    Outside the realm of shooting people, undead or otherwise, I can easily hunt anything from deer to snake with it without needing to to even switch ammo.

    For backup, I usually carry either a Taurus .357 Magnum with a 6 inch barrel, or an old S&W .32 Long snubnose. All told, ammo would be reasonably easy to come across, and I’m more than willing to sacrifice ammo for stopping power and self-proven reliability. I’ve been around too many automatics that have hung up or broken to trust them fully.

11. Angryvikingman on 05 Sep 2011 at 11:35 pm #

    I’ve got a pistol that’s had about 15,000 rounds through it and its only failed once or twice, and all it took to fix it was racking the slide again.

12. McLuvin on 05 Sep 2011 at 11:55 pm #

    .45 is a waste of power for a soft zombie body. Regardless of hype the 9mm doesn’t lag far behind .45 for muzzle energy. If you think a 45 is going to stop in a decomposing body you haven’t shot many things with a handgun. Both calibers will go straight through a person with ball ammo and many hollow points won’t fare much better. As Doc mentioned, the hydrostatic shock(temporary wound cavity) does most of the damage in a gunshot wound. Assuming we would be dealing with classic zombies, there wouldn’t be much hydro to facilitate hydrostatic shock. That would make body shots ineffective even at slowing them down.

    @Wheelgunner- I love revolvers more than most, but your choices are terrible. The SA breaktop is slow to fire and .45lc is not usually found in large quantity. The Taurus is better being DA and in a much more common caliber, but still slow to reload and low capacity. If you use magnums it is super loud and has heavy recoil for no real advantage. The .32 long is just a useless joke.

    @Semper

13. McLuvin on 06 Sep 2011 at 12:00 am #

    @Semper- if you are serious about getting Paras, get older ones. The quality really went to shit a couple years ago. Look for ones with the standard slide serrations instead of the scalloped grooves. That change was right around the same time they went to MIM parts that don’t hold up.

14. Reaver on 06 Sep 2011 at 12:09 am #

    paras aren’t good any more? I was thinking about getting one. also, before anyone starts thinking of me as a mall ninja, the bayonet was a joke.

15. zabadoo on 06 Sep 2011 at 6:33 am #

    From someone that doesn’t shoot a pistol that often. I would think that 2 different pistols would be the way to go. You will want one for the initial outbreak and then another for the long grueling societal drought after the outbreak.

    Initial outbreak – Semi auto 9mm or .45 with a high capacity. This would be used when the crap hit the fan and you are most worried about your life (not conserving resources or your buddy across the street). This would be good against, people who are taking advantage of no “rule of law” and large hordes of zombies. Large mag because if I was going to take advantage of other survivors I would go to where the shooting was and just as a group of survivors was weakened by a horde (low ammo in mag or letting their guard down) I would strike. A large magazine might be needed if, right after you dispatched horde of zeds, a bunch of idiots start shooting at you.

    Societal Drought – .22 revolver. Simple is the key! This would be used for raids in which 2 or 3 zombies are suspected in a house or the random wandering shuffler walks up to you while you’re peeing. You don’t want to risk busting your nice gun when you have an indestructible one. Right?

    So a gun for when the enemy is shooting back and another for when the enemy isn’t shooting back.

    By the way I don’t mind being thought of as a mall ninja. We will need some sort of comic relief once z-day hits. You know one of those “Did you see the stunt that wiener tried to pull off right before he got eaten!” jokes.

16. McLuvin on 06 Sep 2011 at 9:24 am #

    I agree with the second gun idea. That’s why I mentioned my suppressed Ruger. If you run into a single zed or want to bag a rabbit you don’t want to alert every zombie in a two mile radius. 22 is easy to carry and plentiful so I’d use it to conserve centerfire ammo. A good semi 22 is almost as durable as a revolver,but it has some distinct advantages; more capacity, faster reloads, can be suppressed.

17. McLuvin on 06 Sep 2011 at 11:39 am #

    @Guardsman- they are pretty much the granddaddy of conversions. It should work fine. Look around for one of the discontinued factory conversions. If you can find one it would be the best.

    @Doom- why go with a subcompact gun for zombies?

18. Semper Cogitant on 06 Sep 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    @Docwade – Energy is energy, hydrostatic shock is just the way the energy is dissipated through the target. The energy come from the explosion of the powered in the shell, transferred to the bullet, then to the target. No new energy is created. As for the equal and opposite reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction, however it is dissipated through the mass of the gun, that’s why heavier guns kick less then lighter ones.

    A one shot stop has nothing to do with the circulatory system, it is all about energy transfer. They is why you use a heavier bullet on heavier game. That is why you use expanding bullets. Terminal ballistics and stopping power are all about energy transfer. Yes, there is hydraulic shock and wound cone and a lot of factors involved, but all of those are the results of energy transfer.

    A nine millimeter will over penetrate and not transfer much of it’s energy, a .45 will not. That is why you see news stories about police officers in jurisdictions that carry 9mm shooting suspects 15 times. Not because the cops are mean, but because the suspect kept coming despite having an eventually fatal wound.

    Even in a zombie, the more energy you can transfer to the target the better. Yes, a nice brain shot will drop them, but no one is going to make that perfect head shot every time under stress, against a moving target while moving themselves. A .45 is more likely to slow a zombie, knock it over, or disable a limb.

    @McLuvin – It’s not about muzzle energy, it’s about energy transfer to the target. A .45 will leave more of it’s energy in a target. There is a huge volume of research on this. As for experience, I am an ER nurse and worked in down town Los Angeles from 1989 to 1998, I have seen many, many hundreds of gunshot wounds and the results. I have seen many 9mm wounds that passed straight through a target, even making a nice neat hole in a bone, while .45s tend to shatter bone. I have seen people shot by LAPD and their 9mm Berettas and by LASD Swat with .45s. Forgive me, but terminal ballistics is a topic on which I have both a lot of practical knowledge and experience, and have done a lot of research of a period of decades. I can assure you that though both can be equally lethal, a .45 is far more effective at stopping.

    Oh, and as for actually buying a ParaOrd, not likely. Kimber all the way for me. 14 rounds would be nice in our scenario, but it would be heavy to . If you get the the point where you’re reloading your pistol a couple times in a fit you really shouldn’t be using a pistol, you need a carbine at that point.

19. Semper Cogitant on 06 Sep 2011 at 12:09 pm #

    @Docwade – Energy is energy, hydrostatic shock is just the way the energy is dissipated through the target. The energy come from the explosion of the powered in the shell, transferred to the bullet, then to the target. No new energy is created. As for the equal and opposite reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction, however it is dissipated through the mass of the gun, that’s why heavier guns kick less then lighter ones.

    A one shot stop has nothing to do with the circulatory system, it is all about energy transfer. They is why you use a heavier bullet on heavier game. That is why you use expanding bullets. Terminal ballistics and stopping power are all about energy transfer. Yes, there is hydraulic shock and wound cone and a lot of factors involved, but all of those are the results of energy transfer.

    A nine millimeter will over penetrate and not transfer much of it’s energy, a .45 will not. That is why you see news stories about police officers in jurisdictions that carry 9mm shooting suspects 15 times. Not because the cops are mean, but because the suspect kept coming despite having an eventually fatal wound.

    Even in a zombie, the more energy you can transfer to the target the better. Yes, a nice brain shot will drop them, but no one is going to make that perfect head shot every time under stress, against a moving target while moving themselves. A .45 is more likely to slow a zombie, knock it over, or disable a limb.

    @McLuvin – It’s not about muzzle energy, it’s about energy transfer to the target. A .45 will leave more of it’s energy in a target. There is a huge volume of research on this. As for experience, I am an ER nurse and worked in down town Los Angeles from 1989 to 1998, I have seen many, many hundreds of gunshot wounds and the results. I have seen many 9mm wounds that passed straight through a target, even making a nice neat hole in a bone, while .45s tend to shatter bone. I have seen people shot by LAPD and their 9mm Berettas and by LASD Swat with .45s. Forgive me, but terminal ballistics is a topic on which I have both a lot of practical knowledge and experience, and have done a lot of research of a period of decades. I can assure you that though both can be equally lethal, a .45 is far more effective at stopping.

    Oh, and as for actually buying a ParaOrd, not likely. Kimber all the way for me. 14 rounds would be nice in our scenario, but it would be heavy to carry. If you get the the point where you’re reloading your pistol a couple times in a fit you really shouldn’t be using a pistol, you need a carbine at that point.

20. McLuvin on 06 Sep 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    The point I was making(and I believe what Docwade was going for) is that a zombie body is not the same as a human body. Without the circulatory system pumping blood the amount of liquid to transfer energy to is greatly diminished. If you shoot a living animal with a high velocity bullet the damage is much worse than if you shoot a slab of beef that’s been rotting for days or weeks. That being the case, a body shot won’t have any real effect unless you hit bone. Even then, it may not slow them down. The head shot is the only guaranteed stop and in that instance there is no advantage to the bigger slower bullet. If you also consider that .45 ammo weighs almost twice as much as 9mm, it is at a decided disadvantage in this scenario.

    Just so you are aware, most of the time when cops have to shoot someone fifteen times, it’s because they can’t hit anything vital. Cops are notoriously terrible shots. It’s not a surprise that bad shots don’t drop someone.

21. 3-15 INF on 06 Sep 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    Any service caliber 99mm, .40, .45) pistol that is carried by law enforcement or military would do. Auto is def the way to go, in my opinion.
    I don’t find revolvers all that more reliable. i have seen a couple of magnums jam ( the primer backed out do to the charge and seized the cylinder). Glock, 1911, beretta, usp, whatever. theyr’e all up to your tastes. I like the 1911, but i also have a 9mm Glock 26 thats small and easy to find parts for.
    I also have a walther p22 with a can that i’ve ran 10k rounds through on the same barrel, firing pin and extractor. Very reliable and quiet.
    Whatever you get, just make sure it’s easy to stock up on parts and ammo! I have 2 extra barrels, half a dozen mags, springs, pins etc., for all my handguns. Do the same!
    I feel a .22 is vital as a survival round but you still need to get some range with a combat caliber pistol and rifle.

22. QAZZY on 06 Sep 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    Personally, I like the Kimber and Springfield 1911s, but I think 9mm will be the best choice. To get more stopping power, you could make a ‘dum-dum’ round and cut a ‘X’ in the tip of the round. It’s not legal, but it’s generally accepted that the gov’t will collapse in the presence of a zombies apocalypse.

    Browning Hi-Power deserves honorable mention, and the Ruger 22/45 should be mentioned with the Walther P22 in a .22LR section.

    I’m trying to get my hands on a Ruger 10/22 short barreled rifle with a folding stock and sticking a suppressor on it. I imagine using it in a close quarters situation so I don’t deafen myself with a loud round, and in stealth applications.

23. Doom on 06 Sep 2011 at 7:15 pm #

    I believe it was Zabadoo with the second pistol idea. One for during the outbreak and one after, depending on what “after” will be like. I suggest making two entire loadouts. The first more assault oriented for the purpose of breaking free of the hordes and escaping the high population areas. The second for scavenging and hunting. Although the reality of carrying more than one long gun on your person may get you killed faster. Even with the use of slings it will be a feat to run with four guns and a pack strapped to your back.

    @ Mclovin. I didn’t say I’d use that hawg for zombie slaying. I just envy his gun. For a subcompact 1911, it handles very well. I still outshot him with my XDm 9mm tho. Lol.

24. Reaver on 06 Sep 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    eh, really during the zombie apocalypse, it wouldn’t just be about survival. Having fun is important too. So a katana may not be the ultimate weapon for killing zombies and dual wielding SMG’s every blue moon may waste some ammo. so what? everyone needs to blow off steam.

25. McLuvin on 06 Sep 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    I’m pretty sure it would just be about survival.

26. Reaver on 06 Sep 2011 at 9:42 pm #

    just surviving is no fun though. you have to have something to look forward to. so, while the safest place would probably be a fort above the snowline, I would be on an island in the Caribbean, relaxing on the beach, fishing for food and taking my sailboat out every day.

27. QAZZY 1-9th on 06 Sep 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    Who would carry that many guns? I’m getting a folding stock 10/22 short barrel as my ‘carbune’ so a can share rounds with my 10/22. A sniper rifle, 7.62 or .30-06., since my .300 Win Mag doesn’t have much in the way of availability.

    But if you go on YouTube, you can find videos of Marines and soldiers dancing and playing pranks on each other. And that’s necessary, we’d go literally insane fighting 24/7. Just how taking a nap will improve your work performance, a relaxed warrior is a more effective one.

28. QAZZY 1-9th on 06 Sep 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    Carbine* not carbune

29. CompShooter on 06 Sep 2011 at 10:14 pm #

    I like my M1991 A1 series 80 I also own a SW 459 but hate its very existence. I plan to go with a 92F or maybe aquire a M9 I’ve used them before and shoot well. As far as 22,s go I have a ruger mk ll. And a SW mod 17. I wouldn’t knock the 22 too much, The Israeli massad uses 22 ‘s for assassinations up close an personal. I think 22 ammo would most likely be over looked by others during scavaging. Even a 10/22 would be good, 500 rounds is roughly the space of a softball and only a couple pounds at best and have been well known to penetrate vests according to my cousin who is a sheriff. often times, 22,s richochet off several bones leaving a crooked wound channel. The times I shot a watermelon with my 45 and a 9 mm , the wound channel and fractured rind was more apparent with the 45. Some have said it would ne different on the undead, well I can speculate it would but it still would be a guess in the end . Any body here,live on a farm or can get a pig’s head or two? One for testing fresh and the other for letting it rot a few weeks or some set time? But really, this amounts to the same as Ford vs Chevy when it comes to 45 vs 9mm and many a gun magazine has made millions rehashing this argument only to have us beat each other over the heads with figures and stats while they laugh all the way to the bank .I will bet that what ever caliber you have ( for some ,both but probably favor one over another) you will go with it and not likely see the light so to speak from arguments here or convert someone to switch when the time comes. Hell….so far I like a 22 as a secondary and in cases a primary weapon.

30. Doom on 07 Sep 2011 at 4:12 am #

    Off topic but check out “fps russia” on YouTube. He’s got several videos showing off different guns and mentions zombies occasionally. Fun stuff.

31. Amazing Beef on 07 Sep 2011 at 9:49 am #

    I live in the UK. The closest I’ma get to a pistol is a crossbow ¬¬ Oh well, at least I’ll be able to buy one in 2 days.

32. Reaver on 07 Sep 2011 at 11:09 am #

    don’t get a crossbow. recurve or compound is best, recurve will last longer though.

33. QAZZY 1-9th on 07 Sep 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    CompShooter knows his stuff. A .22 will turn your insides into soup. In first hand experience, .45 is better in stopping power with BALL rounds, but the effect is probably negligible with hollow points.

    And I’m pretty hyped for that 10/22 SBR with a folding stock. It’s actually inspired by a guy on YouTube with a suppressed 10/22 SBR and that thing is quiet and tiny.

34. Angryvikingman on 08 Sep 2011 at 7:36 am #

    Well, I have to say that I have personally seen people killed by a 22lr from a 10/22, so I have no arguments as to its viability as a lethal round. Suppressed and using subsonic rounds, you’re not going to hear it more than 50 yards away, so its definately a great weapon. For hunting small game and even deer as well its sufficient. So sock away a. 50 Cal ammo can and you’ll have about 25,000 rounds. Get a 10/22 and a mkII or my favorite, a walther P22, buy a suppressor for $250 and you’re well on your way to surviving.

35. David on 08 Sep 2011 at 8:45 am #

    .40 Cal Glock for close range last resort should significantly splatter brains everywhere.

36. McLuvin on 08 Sep 2011 at 11:54 am #

    Infected brains flying everywhere, just what you need.

37. Semper Cogitant on 08 Sep 2011 at 11:59 am #

    .22 is definitely potentially lethal. I’ve seen many folks killed with one. The problem is I’ve also seen a lot of people just really pissed off by getting shot with one. Even seen a guy shot in the head with one, and all it did was track around the skull under the scalp and leave him with a headache, he wasn’t even knocked out. Of course I’ve seen more that penetrated the skull. It is a good light weight and easily available round.

38. McLuvin on 08 Sep 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    I think a suppressed .22 is the best backup gun available. Great for taking out single or small groups of zombies without alerting others from a distance. It would also be optimal for hunting food without drawing attention or scaring other game away. Out of a handgun most .22 ammo is subsonic so you can use cheap, available bulk box stuff. Save the subsonic ammo for a rifle if need be.

39. QAZZY 1-9th on 08 Sep 2011 at 3:52 pm #

    I think for the bulk of your fighting, against small groups or individual zeds should be done. But when the s**t really hits the fan, when the whole horde is already on to you, that’s when your more powerful, unsuppressed weapons come in.

    But I’m not seeing a significant role for unsuppressed handguns here. Indoors, I’d personally want a suppressed weapon to not disorient me, and in close quarters, when you want your shots to count, you should go for the head with any weapon anyways.

40. McLuvin on 08 Sep 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    I would prefer to have all my weapons suppressed, but that is unrealistic. I’ll be happy with my .22s and 9mms.

41. QAZZY 1-9th on 08 Sep 2011 at 6:09 pm #

    With rifle calibers of any kind, the noise reduction isn’t significant enough to be worth it, especially with the big magnum rounds. .223 suppressed is great for not blowing out your eardrums indoors, but .308 suppressed isn’t worth the giant suppressor.

42. battery burnout on 08 Sep 2011 at 6:21 pm #

    Dual FN 5.7′s and a P-90..

    three Clips for the P-90 in the vest, 2 extra clips for the pistols on the belt, with 3 fully loaded firearms, and your carrying 323 rounds

43. Docwade on 09 Sep 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    @Semper
    Yes, yes, I’m sure most of us understand the physics involved here, but as McLuvin pointed out, you are comparing apples to oranges relative to living and dead flesh. I think the closest tangible visual example would be mythbusters trying to shoot the pig carcass off the swing post. Lots of rounds used all the way up to 000 shot. The 230 grain 45acp doesn’t blow you off your feet. It’s shock that sets you on your butt. Another good example is the energy transfer through a vest. A fraction is lost due to deformation of both the projectile and tearing layers of the weave, but the vast majority of the energy carries through to the wearer. Still doesnt blow you off your feet – that’s all I was getting at.

    The argument relative to 9mm over penetration vs 45acp stopping power is relatively moot during the zombie outbreak. Writing off rounds as “slowing them down” or making the zed “combat ineffective” is a waste of a round. If they ARE the slow lumbering zombie, not a single round should miss it’s snuggly home in a zed’s brain. If they are runners…well, we’re fucked.

44. McLuvin on 09 Sep 2011 at 8:44 pm #

    @Burnout- Good luck finding more ammo for that setup.

    P. S.- They are magazines, not clips.

45. QAZZY 1-9th on 09 Sep 2011 at 10:04 pm #

    @burnout Good luck finding parts, or even a P90. Note that the FN Five-Seven is over $1000 and you probably won’t find one outside of a Mexican drug cartel.

46. McLuvin on 09 Sep 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    And they are flimsy

    And they have a terrible trigger

47. Docwade on 09 Sep 2011 at 11:21 pm #

    Did I hear “dual fn5.7′s”??? Screw it, I’m going dual Dardick’s.

48. McLuvin on 09 Sep 2011 at 11:41 pm #

    Dual gyrojets for me!

49. QAZZY 1-9th on 10 Sep 2011 at 8:31 am #

    Dibs on the dual Desert Eagles.

50. Docwade on 10 Sep 2011 at 10:52 am #

    Where’s our rich cop buddy with is dual Glock 18′s?

51. Angryvikingman on 10 Sep 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    Well, if the first round of 22lr doesn’t drop them, then shoot again. Supposedly, the human skull is as strong as a half inch of wood, so 22 will definately penetrate, but the shape of the skull is where the problem is, so all you have to do is shoot them in the face. Anywhere in the nose/eye area, or profile side of the head is good. They’ll drop like a sack of taters.

    That being said, you want a pistol with a higher mag capacity than 10. So, what you’re looking for there is the Ruger charger. It uses 10/22 mags, so you can carry a pistol and rifle that use the same mags. Not to mention that you can carry 1000 rounds and not be affected by the weight.

    Also, I suggest investing in a pair of electronic ear muffs and a butt ton of batteries. They only cancel noise over a certain DB and you can hear normally when not firing your weapon, so you can hear the shufflers and maintain your hearing. Because OMFG firing a gun in an enclosed area sucks so freaking bad.

52. GaurdianAngel on 10 Sep 2011 at 11:50 pm #

    ruger .357 gp100, planning on picking up a .22 automatic once i get a new job, not sure which one though. along with my stag arms mod 2 thats a winning team i think. easy to find 357, 38, 22, kinda 5.56 (more of a round to be stocked before hand). but you guys know all this.

53. QAZZY 1-9th on 11 Sep 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    I know this sounds shallow, but the Charger is FUGLY.

    You may want to get a solar charger for the batteries that are to go into the earmuffs, or invest in a suppressor to lower the sound to acceptable levels. If you’re fighting indoors, why not slap on a bayonet? When you’re clearing a house, the first thing that goes through the door is your muzzle. When the zombie is right there, all you have to do is step and spear it.

54. Angryvikingman on 11 Sep 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    No, no, I agree, its completely fugly, but it uses the same mags as the 10/22, so 25 rounds before you have to reload instead of 10. Only other guns with light ammo that do that are the 22mag KelTec PMR and RMR. Which the Pistol is fugly, but the carbine looks cool.

55. QAZZY 1-9th on 11 Sep 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    Not a fan of KelTec, the ergonomics don’t really work for me. The stocks for the SU-16 feel too light, and the grip isn’t very comfortable.

    Although, the KSG looks nice, and I may consider it as a replacement for my Mossberg (or most likely to serve next to it), and I’m considering the RFB, since it ejects shells forward. I’m tired of having shells eject right in front of my face (I’m a left-handed shooter), and I need a .308 rifle since I’ve been using my brother’s M1A, and I don’t want to use my service weapon (it’s bolt-action).

56. Reaver on 11 Sep 2011 at 5:33 pm #

    I was testing a kelTec 9mm, a Glock and a kimber custom II this weekend. I’m in love with the kimber, but the keltec had excellent shot grouping for such a cheap gun and used interchangeable mags with the glock, which could really come in handy in a survival situation.

57. McLuvin on 11 Sep 2011 at 6:26 pm #

    The real problem with the charger is that it’s not really a handgun. It’s not meant to shoot offhand. It’s designed to shoot off the included bipod. It would suck as a pistol.

58. QAZZY 1-9th on 11 Sep 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    There really needs to be a standard magazine for all common calibers, .22, 9mm, .45, 7.62, etc.

    The government (well, NATO) did something right with the STANAG.

59. wheelgunner on 11 Sep 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    Erase that. NOW! We do not want them to get the wrong idea that they are usually right.

60. Angryvikingman on 11 Sep 2011 at 9:39 pm #

    What I want gun manufacturers to realize is that they need to make right handed guns with the damn charging handle on the left side. Why would you want to take your firing hand off the grip/trigger to work the action? Makes no damn sense at all, but thats the way its been done for a century or more. If I’m shooting a bolt gun with a bipod, why make one hand perform 2 essential functions? Conserve motion and make it where you can work it with both hands. You can get more shots down range. As for assault rifles, well hell, all of them except the German made ones are made so you have to move the rifle into a weird position or at least away from a retention position to chamber a round. Just now some manufacturers are starting to integrate a ambi handed charging handle. Only took them about 100 years to figure it out. *Facepalm*

61. QAZZY 1-9th on 11 Sep 2011 at 10:12 pm #

    That’s why I like right handed bolt guns. I can (awkwardly) manipulate the bolt with my right hand while keeping my eye on the scope. It’s just uncomfortable to have a shell eject near your face, which is why I think guns should be forward ejecting.

62. Drizzt on 12 Sep 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    2- Colt Python 357/38 One modded for right hand the other stock. 2 – Springfield 1911 Mil Spec 45s Loaded (irradiated, loop hammer ect.) S&W 9mm, Browning 12 ga. and Winni 308 scoped and modded.
    This is my boom stick… Shop Smart… Shop S-Mart.

63. wheelgunner on 12 Sep 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    I actually prefer it that way…

64. Ron on 12 Sep 2011 at 5:19 pm #

    The Draco…..AK-47 pistol…10.5″ barrel
    Takes everything from a 5 round mag to 75 rnd drum. Put on a piccatiny rail for your aiming and illumination accoutrements. A true pistol for the apocalypse.

65. McLuvin on 14 Sep 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    My God, people!

    A Draco with a 75rd drum? A pair of pythons with one modified for right hand use? Irradiated 1911s? I’m beginning to wonder again if any of you have ever shot a gun.

    A Draco is hardly a handgun, no matter what the BATFE says. Good luck hitting anything with that awkward, heavy POS.

    Pythons are pretty guns not durable survival guns! We have already discussed the drawbacks of revolvers and now you plan on dual wielding them. How the hell are you going to reload two revolvers genius? One is a handful to reload as it is. Who the hell does this right hand modification you plan on getting?

    Irradiated 1911s? What the fuck are you talking about?

66. Reaver on 14 Sep 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    the only thing I need on my pistol is high profile target sights…

67. Sorken on 14 Sep 2011 at 11:21 pm #

    I love P90 but getting serious It would be almost impossible finding some rounds. So its not kind of my weapon of choice.

    Getting to handguns: I would pick a couple of .22, depending on the situation maybe it won’t be necessary to completely stop a zombie, maybe just incapacitating them to run or walk would be enough. Plus rounds are very common.

    I also think that the choice of a large gun also depends on the guns that your survival group carries: I mean if you stick up to another 2 guys and the other ones are carrying long shot rifles it would be better to yourself (and for the team) to carry a shotgun.

68. Sorken on 14 Sep 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    AAH and about melee wepons i would choose an axe or a hammer, both maybe useful as weapons and tools.

69. wheelgunner on 14 Sep 2011 at 11:36 pm #

    All I need is bullets. Always more bullets. And more revolver…

    AND DRIZZT? We have Dark Elves!

    I kinda want to know how he intends to get anything effective done packing five pistols and two long arms. Looks good on paper, no?

70. QAZZY 1-9th on 15 Sep 2011 at 4:45 am #

    What are they talking about? Irradiated 1911?

    I think we need Rifles for the Zombieapocalypse, and one of those ‘ideal loadouts’ articles to attract idiots that say ‘akimbo G18 full auto’ and rave about the Desert Eagle and AA12.

71. HMPlatinum on 15 Sep 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    My pistol, a non-irradiated 1911, is to get me to my rifle.

    Or my shotgun.

72. Angryvikingman on 15 Sep 2011 at 7:31 pm #

    First of all, I’m glad I’m not the only dork who read the Dark Elf books.

    Second, maybe he means Tritium night sights when he says irradiated, because tritium is radioactive, though not dangerous.

    Thirdly, if you’re gonna schlep a draco around, maybe you should try holding it at arms length with a drum on it, dummy. Your arm will be shaking so much you couldn’t hit jack shit, much less make a moving headshot. If you wanna carry one, you might as well just put a stock on the damn thing.

    Fourth, carrying a shotgun, 50 rnds, a rifle and 300 rnds and a pistol with about 50-100 rounds is plausable. So instead of having one guy in your group with each type of gun, if you all carry 3, then you can all use the weapons as necessary, and not have to rely on someone else to take the shot for you when miliseconds count. Derp.

73. wheelgunner on 15 Sep 2011 at 7:55 pm #

    Plausible, but not easy.I know you woudn’t be doing it in my neck of the woods, mainly because getting one gun through the brush is a feat. Doesn’t leave a lot of nonfighting gear space in your pack either.

74. QAZZY 1-9th on 15 Sep 2011 at 8:20 pm #

    A Draco is great for non-pistol usage. I’ve fired one with a folding stock, and it’d be great for clearing houses.

    Tritium sights are a favorite. Even in daylight, the tritium spots are lighter and have more contrast. Tritium sights are pretty much a must in at least one of your pistols.

75. GaurdianAngel on 15 Sep 2011 at 9:02 pm #

    yeah but for the price of a draco, a stamp to legalize it, a folding stock, and maby another stamp for that, cant remember if the first of covers that, your looking at the price of three or four good AK’s, or a couple of average ar15′s. and a case of ammo. or if you want a pistol you could opt for a couple of python’s…

76. Reaver on 15 Sep 2011 at 9:49 pm #

    can anyone recommend a good, reliable and fairly accurate 1911 that’s affordable? I’d prefer to be able to swap out the stock sights for adjustable target ones if possible.

77. McLuvin on 15 Sep 2011 at 10:21 pm #

    Rock island makes a decent gun for around $450. Their tactical model has pretty much everything you need. If you can go higher the STI Spartan is basically the same gun just massaged by STI. It’s around $600. If you can go any higher the Springfield Loaded is around $800. Any higher than that and you don’t gain much until you get to the $1500 range. The Springfield TRP and Dan Wesson Valor are top notch guns at that price point.

78. Reaver on 15 Sep 2011 at 10:29 pm #

    thanks. the guy at my local gun store recommended rock island over para ordinance.

79. Reaver on 15 Sep 2011 at 10:56 pm #

    so it comes down to a choice between the STI, Rock Island and Springfield loaded…. I’m leaning towards the springfield. haha, I like polished finishes.

80. McLuvin on 15 Sep 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    I’d take the Springfield myself. It beats a Para anyday.

81. McLuvin on 16 Sep 2011 at 12:39 am #

    They sucked. Unreliable and cheaply made.

82. QAZZY 1-9th on 16 Sep 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    Which is too bad, they really were fun to shoot. 100 rounds of .22 or 9mm could be real handy.

83. Reaver on 17 Sep 2011 at 12:28 am #

    @mcluvin, where do Kimber custom II’s fit into that list?

84. QAZZY 1-9th on 17 Sep 2011 at 5:23 am #

    Reaver, I love my Kimber, they’re just so expensive.

85. McLuvin on 17 Sep 2011 at 8:05 am #

    Kimber has had some teething issues in the last five years. They are putting out some good products now though. The original kimbers were very good guns at a nice price point. The problem is they got too popular too fast. They couldn’t keep the quality level up when they maxed out production. They also tried going to an external extractor that wasn’t very reliable. So if you want a Kimber, get one from before the external extractor or one made in the last couple years. If you compare similar models, the Springfield is usually $150-200 cheaper for the same features and quality.

86. HMPlatinum on 17 Sep 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    With my luck, Drizzt is patient zero, and mad about it.

    As far as 1911′s go, 100% agree with McLuvin. I carry a SA Loaded (parkerized, soon to be Duracoated) and am VERY happy with it. I traded a SS Para Gunrights Hi-cap .45 in on it, and Para will have to work VERY, VERY hard on their QC for me to ever waste my money with them again.

    Another import 1911 to consider is the ATI. They’ve been getting good reviews and run 450-550.

87. Reaver on 17 Sep 2011 at 2:01 pm #

    okay, so I’m decided on the SA loaded as my next pistol, can you guys recommend some good, reliable high cap mags for it?

88. McLuvin on 17 Sep 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    The best 1911 mags available are Wilson Combat. You can get standard eight round or extended ten round.

89. Reaver on 17 Sep 2011 at 3:25 pm #

    Thanks. Now that I have all that sensible advice on a practical weapon, I’m going to completely ignore it and get dual Desert eagles with pistol bayonets and red dot sights. hahaha

90. Reaver on 17 Sep 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    joking, by the way. I’m looking forward to the springfield.

91. QAZZY 1-9th on 17 Sep 2011 at 7:27 pm #

    What’s the best ammunition brand to use for .45 ACP? I usually get the cheapest ones to practice, but I’d like some good ammunition when the SHTF.

    Dual 5-7s with ACOGs, extended mags and full auto here. What?

92. McLuvin on 18 Sep 2011 at 12:39 am #

    I prefer Cor-Bon Pow’R Ball for defense. Carry ammo is a personal choice. There are several schools of thought on what is ideal. I like light for caliber bullets at high velocity. Many prefer slower heavy bullets. If you stick with a major brand you really can’t go wrong. If you can’t make up your mind then just get Speer Gold Dots in a medium weight. They are a very popular load year after year.

93. QAZZY 1-9th on 18 Sep 2011 at 6:24 pm #

    How do those rounds match up to Federal Premium 225 grain? That’s what I’ve been using.

    Federal ammo hasn’t failed me yet, but I’m aware there are better manufacturers. I mostly go to Hornady or Sierra for bigger rifle rounds.

94. McLuvin on 18 Sep 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    The federal premium just uses an old tech JHP if I recall. The Gold Dot is a more modern bonded HP that retains weight and penetrates better(on paper at least). The Pow’R Ball is a completely different kind of HP. It has a polymer ball in the tip to ensure immediate expansion(think a ballistic tip varmint bullet, only bigger). Due to it’s construction it is relatively light so it gets pretty impressive velocities and in turn massive energy numbers. It won’t penetrate as well as some rounds, but it will go plenty deep to get the job done.

95. QAZZY 1-9th on 18 Sep 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    I know what I’m doing next weekend. I’m grabbing a box of Pow’R Balls and some melons. The .45 varmint idea sounds absolutely great. Penetration doesn’t matter much when you have expanding .45s.

96. McLuvin on 18 Sep 2011 at 9:14 pm #

    I’ve never shot a Pow’R Ball into a melon, but I’ve jellied the inside of a groundhog with one.

97. orebs on 19 Sep 2011 at 1:09 am #

    Calico all the way.

98. QAZZY 1-9th on 19 Sep 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    I don’t feel comfortable shooting something that small with anything bigger than a .22 LR. Using small calibers also lets me stuff them, dye their fur, replace their eyes with fake gems and hang them from my doorway.

99. McLuvin on 19 Sep 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    All I had on me was my Glock 26. I would normally kill groundhogs with a rimfire.

100. Reaver on 19 Sep 2011 at 7:10 pm #

     @quazzy. lmao

101. Castle83 on 20 Sep 2011 at 1:53 pm #

     First time post, great forum. I have a few handguns but I would probably go with my XD .45 5″ tactical with surefire light/laser combo. Yes I am aware of the inherent problems with batteries post zday. However I would take any advantage I could early on. Think about it, even the most well trained individual might have accuracy issues facing down the shambling corpse of someone close to them. I’ll take any advantage I can get early on. I also would most likely bring my Glock 19 9mm. Even if I only brought a few extra magazines, it would be nice to change up caliber if .45 was harder to find. Thoughts anyone?

102. Reaver on 20 Sep 2011 at 6:16 pm #

     .45and 9 mm would be the two most common pistol rounds in america after .22 lr

103. Castle83 on 20 Sep 2011 at 7:41 pm #

     Agreed. Unfortunately I live in California, one of the most gun restrictive states in the union (all ready a pain in the butt). Not to mention I live in a city with very little access to ammo. Again I like to keep my options open. Though I just got my custom built ar15 and a sig on the way, so my options are improving :)

104. McLuvin on 20 Sep 2011 at 9:47 pm #

     @Castle- I hope you stock up on ammo since it’s not widely available in your town and you are unlikely to stumble upon someone else’s stockpile in California. You are also handicapped with capacity limits and a fixed magazine in your AR if my knowledge of communist gun laws is up to date. Those will be huge negatives especially if you are in a highly populated part of the state. It sounds like you have a good selection of calibers so at least you will be able to utilize most ammo you can find.

105. Castle83 on 20 Sep 2011 at 10:14 pm #

     @Mcluvin very good sir. Yes I am handicapped by hi mag limits (10 rounds regardless of weap

106. Castle83 on 20 Sep 2011 at 10:24 pm #

     Appologize, sending txt on the iPhone is a pain.
     @Mcluvin very good sir. Yes I am handicapped by hi mag limits (10 rounds regardless of weapon. I try to keep at least 1000 rounds for my main weapons .45 .556 9mm however target shooting runs my supply dry fairly quickly. I do have friends out of state that will provide me with higher capacity mags. Not that I would use them at the range but would be nice to have in a shtf situation.

107. QAZZY 1-9th on 21 Sep 2011 at 3:17 pm #

     @Castle83 What the hell are you doing owning guns in California? It’s a shame really, Northern California is really nice, and would be great for target shooting and hunting.

108. Castle83 on 21 Sep 2011 at 7:09 pm #

     @Qazzy Tell me about it brother! It gets any more restricted out here I’ll have to move to Arizona. Socal is nice but the idiotic laws are something to be desired. Take into account the population figures this close to LA I’d be in deep $&@& come zday without a serious plan.

109. Reaver on 21 Sep 2011 at 11:15 pm #

     This may just be me being paranoid, but all you guys should stay alert for civil unrest over the next few days. This troy davis thing has the makings of the beginning of a riot.

110. McLuvin on 21 Sep 2011 at 11:17 pm #

     We don’t get riots where I live.

111. Robert Niess on 22 Sep 2011 at 12:21 pm #

     I’d like to get a Glock 21. During WWZ I need a .45 for stopping power.

112. QAZZY 1-9th on 22 Sep 2011 at 3:13 pm #

     @Castle83 I’m convinced 90% of the people that live in San Francisco are already zombies. Although, there are a lot of really nice Naval and Marine bases in California.

     People are being stupid with the Troy Davis thing. He shot a security officer, he dies for it. It’s simple.

113. wheelgunner on 22 Sep 2011 at 10:51 pm #

     Beauracracy hard at work.

114. Angryvikingman on 24 Sep 2011 at 10:36 am #

     Rifles article in the works. Give it a day or two.

115. McLuvin on 24 Sep 2011 at 10:40 am #

     I can’t wait to hear about the Barrett 50s and full auto assault rifles.

116. Angryvikingman on 24 Sep 2011 at 1:17 pm #

     Shoot what ya wanna. The article will be a little more practicle than that.

117. McLuvin on 24 Sep 2011 at 2:11 pm #

     I’m talking about the posts that will come after the article.

118. QAZZY 1-9th on 24 Sep 2011 at 5:28 pm #

     I’m still waiting for more .44 Python and Desert Eagle talk here.
     I still love me some Marlin Model 1894 .44 Magnum lever-action, even if it isn’t really a rifle (carbine?). I think I’m going to buy myself one.

     I’ve actually still waiting for someone to say they’ll be running around with a Barrett and a full-sized machine gun, with hundreds of rounds.

119. McLuvin on 24 Sep 2011 at 6:18 pm #

     The marlin is a nice gun, Qazzy. I had the 1894P which they sadly no longer make. It was light, handy, and accurate. I sold off my magnums to minimize my cartridge selection, but that was a nice levergun.

120. QAZZY 1-9th on 24 Sep 2011 at 10:16 pm #

     Im a fan of Marlin’s lever actions, they’re smoother than all the others I’ve fired. It’s like the difference from a well oiled Enfield to a Mosin Nagant. Few movements are more satisfying than using the lever on a good lever action to me. My cartridge selection is still pretty low, so I’m going for it.

121. survivor811 on 25 Sep 2011 at 2:14 am #

     Give me a 9mm and as much ammo as I can carry. that being said if it shoots I’ll use it… Im not picky.

122. QAZZY 1-9th on 25 Sep 2011 at 3:24 pm #

     Are there any companies making a 9mm or .22LR revolver? Most wheelgun rounds are a b***h to come by.

123. McLuvin on 25 Sep 2011 at 4:25 pm #

     9mm revolvers are not common at all. Smith made several, but not for very long. They demand a premium because of the rarity. Taurus makes a snubby that has never been popular. Charter Arms announced a new model that doesn’t take moon clips, but that never really materialized. It also loses out on one of the benefits of a 9mm revolver. Most people would be better off with a good automatic.

124. QAZZY 1-9th on 25 Sep 2011 at 8:42 pm #

     Thanks. I was thinking of a revolver because when the SHTF, and you’ve run out of clips, you can load up your revolver. Reliability is also a factor, and it would be a good backup sidearm.

125. Reaver on 25 Sep 2011 at 10:07 pm #

     revolvers would be good. my next purchase after the springfield will be an AK, but after that I was going to get some form of revolver, probably in .45 as well.

126. Castle83 on 26 Sep 2011 at 9:58 am #

     Picking up my Sig 229 today, can’t wait!

127. CompShooter on 26 Sep 2011 at 10:51 am #

     @QAZZY.
     I have a S&W model 17 k22 .22 cal. with 8.375 bbl and easily hit a 8 ” swinging target at 50yds with it single or double action. Don’t really know about any
     9mm revolvers out there and if there are it would have to use moon clips and those are a pain in the ass .

128. wheelgunner on 26 Sep 2011 at 10:54 am #

     Ruger blackhawk. They come with a .357 magnum and 9mm conversion cylinders. I’ve also seen some models of Collt SAA knockoffs that do that.

129. wheelgunner on 26 Sep 2011 at 10:55 am #

     I’ve even seen a few stubnoses around here in 9mm too.

130. QAZZY 1-9th on 26 Sep 2011 at 3:07 pm #

     Thanks! I know S&W also makes a couple revolvers in .45 ACP too.
     I’m gonna ask the nearest gun dealer about a .22LR S&W Model 617. 10 rounds of .22 is pretty good.

131. McLuvin on 26 Sep 2011 at 3:26 pm #

     22 revolvers are notoriously hard to reload. Skinny little shells in tiny little holes. Even with speedloaders it’s not very fast. Magazines are easier to carry and faster to reload. S&W 25/625s are great guns, but it’s much faster and easier to load a 10-15rd magazine than a six round moon clip. The fastest revolver reloader in the world can still reload an automatic faster. It is also easier to shoot an automatic than a revolver. The Blackhawk with 9mm conversion cylinder is a nice toy, but it would be just about the worst choice for zombies. You can’t get much slower than a SA revolver.

132. Reaver on 26 Sep 2011 at 3:36 pm #

     well, if you practice a lot with a revolver, you can shoot a lot faster than with an automatic. semi’s can only cycle so fast.

133. QAZZY 1-9th on 26 Sep 2011 at 4:13 pm #

     I was thinking at the point where we would need to use revolvers because we’re out of clips, we would want to conserve ammunition. Revolvers are a good way to force yourself to be accurate.

     I feel I’m more accurate with a 1911 than a 17 round Glock because on the 1911, I know I have 8 rounds, and I have to make them count, whether it’s on a paper or a living target.

134. McLuvin on 26 Sep 2011 at 4:55 pm #

     @Reaver- incorrect

     @Qazzy- why would you ever be out of magazines? After you kill a group of zombies you can pick them up. They are reusable! If you shoot a 1911 better that’s fine, but if it’s because you know you have fewer rounds to waste, that’s just stupid. You shouldn’t be wasting rounds to begin with.

135. QAZZY 1-9th on 26 Sep 2011 at 6:24 pm #

     I instinctively drop a magazine and go for the next one pretty quickly. In a combat situation, you may be more focused on getting out of there than picking up magazine, and after enough encounters, you’d be out.

     It’s a psychological thing. You don’t always have the conserve ammo mindset when you know you have 17 rounds at your fingertips, and another 17 a few seconds away. It’s easy to go out and spray all 17 rounds under stress. It’s similar to the reason why the M16A2 and A4 have 3 round burst instead of full auto, so people make their shots count and not just spray.

136. McLuvin on 26 Sep 2011 at 8:31 pm #

     @Reaver- Still incorrect. The human finger can only move so fast. The slide of a semi-automatic moves much faster. Even Jerry himself shoots a semi faster than a revolver. Anyone who tells you that they can pull the trigger on a semi so fast that they outrun the slide is a liar. There are USPSA grandmasters who can shoot an El Presidente in the same time it takes Jerry to dump 12 on a target.

137. Reaver on 26 Sep 2011 at 9:02 pm #

     the finger can only move so fast, which is why I’m saying the revolver is faster. you can fan the hammer on a revolver.

138. McLuvin on 26 Sep 2011 at 9:14 pm #

     No, jackass, you can’t!

139. Reaver on 26 Sep 2011 at 9:56 pm #

     yes you can. It just wears out the revolver very quickly and its almost impossible to be accurate with it, requiring inordinate amounts of practice.

140. McLuvin on 26 Sep 2011 at 10:02 pm #

     Exactly, it destroys the gun. So good luck with that on Z-day. You’ll miss real fast then get eaten while trying to eject your empties or when your gun breaks.

141. Reaver on 26 Sep 2011 at 10:53 pm #

     I’m not saying I would do it. I’ll be using a 1911. just that it can be done.

142. McLuvin on 26 Sep 2011 at 11:24 pm #

     You can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a bull’s ass, but wouldn’t you rather take the Butcher’s word for it?

143. McLuvin on 26 Sep 2011 at 11:29 pm #

     If we are comparing useless, inaccurate, ways to waste ammo, look up bump firing. Auto still wins and doesn’t break in the process!

144. wheelgunner on 27 Sep 2011 at 2:07 am #

     Back down boys. We’re supposed to be blowing thier heads off, not each others. Let him do what he damn well pleases, and whatever works for him.

145. Docwade on 27 Sep 2011 at 4:21 pm #

     Man, you revolver guys are touchy! Like federal prison go in as a tight end, come out as a wide receiver touchy.

146. Reaver on 27 Sep 2011 at 4:25 pm #

     who’s touchy? I’ve never even used a revolver, just semi’s. I just know that other stuff from reviews and literature.

147. Castle83 on 27 Sep 2011 at 6:48 pm #

     Just a side note, I love references to “tommy boy”

148. McLuvin on 27 Sep 2011 at 7:15 pm #

     @Castle83- I’m glad somebody caught that.

     @Reaver- We at least agree that you are arguing about something you don’t know.

     @Docwade- I just can’t abide stupid.

149. QAZZY 1-9th on 27 Sep 2011 at 7:16 pm #

     @wheelgunner, you know about these revolvers better than us (assumption based on name), shut these two up?

     Anyone know about some Special Application 60gr .357 SIG?

150. Reaver on 27 Sep 2011 at 8:04 pm #

     I’m really not trying to argue. mcluvin seems to have sat on a pinecone however.

151. Travis on 27 Sep 2011 at 9:03 pm #

     If ur looking into the 22lr. Sig sauer has its 22lr carbine. Its has a collpsable stock to save space. Its holds 25 rounds. And a carbine would fire with more accuracy thanks a pistol. Also someone should address the dependability of the revolver.

152. wheelgunner on 28 Sep 2011 at 2:11 am #

     @Qazzy-The only thing that shuts those two up once they get rolling is agreeing with them in the most public way available to you.

     I shoot wheelguns because I like the feel of them way better than an autoloader, which they carry a natural advantage in since they aren’t molded around a magazine well. Generally, in my experience, they screw up less and are more accurate over a wider array of distances. I also prefer longer barrels, which are a major hassle when dealing with a slide.

     As to the specifics of the arguement, I do not believe in fanning in general, and speed shooting in general. Unless you are a professional with a specific situation in mind and that much time and ammunition to practice to gain that precision edge, it’s not worth the effort or logistics involved. Also, speed holsters are gimmics, as are fast draw competitions, which stem largly from Hollywood and the old western genre. Try going cross country wearing one of those things. It’s a good way to hurt you and the gun.

     Draw, aim, fire, kill. That order, in whatever time you can, as slow as you need to. Intent kills, not fancy shooting techniques.

153. Angryvikingman on 28 Sep 2011 at 8:53 am #

     Well said wheelgunner.

154. QAZZY 1-9th on 28 Sep 2011 at 10:35 am #

     Aren’t revolvers more inherently accurate due to the sights being fixed to a stationary chunk of metal? Using big, expensive bullets doesn’t hurt either.

     They aren’t as slim or easy to conceal as a semi, which is why I don’t own one. I usually switch my carry guns depending on what I wear and where I conceal them.

155. wheelgunner on 28 Sep 2011 at 12:03 pm #

     Not slim or easy to conceal? I find a snubnose is easier to pack around and draw than a cliip gun. Fewer sharp angles.

     I will overstress the the importance of the grip design. It does make a huge difference in your performance with any firearm. I can actually pick up cartridges for all of my revolvers for the same price or cheaper than I can for a 9mm, but I won’t argue with them being bigger, which I consider a plus.

     A revolver shooter also has a different mindset when shooting than someone who shoots an autoloader. You wait and line up each shot, because you have to. Different tactics are how we make up for the longer reloading time and smaller ammo capacity.

     That said, if you are doing enough shooting to be out of magazines, the difference in reloading suddenly tips the scale in the opposite direction. Reloading a 17 round magazine takes more time than reloading a Colt SAA 3 times, and you still have to reinsert the mag and feed one into the barrel, so you are helpless for an extended period of time. I’m tired of never hearing this side of the arguement.

     You also have more to clean in an autoloader. I have revolvers that I have never done more than the most cursory external cleaning in order to test the issue, and have had no problems out of them. You do that often enough in an autoloader and you have an inefficient club, which a full sized revolver makes a decent substitute for. Magazines rust and wear out, and you have to keep track of them, like I beleive Qazzy was argueing about further up on the thread. Without them your autoloader is USLESS. It doesn’t matter if you can throw it out of a plane an it be fine if you drop and can’t pick up a magazine in a moment of panic.

     Lastly, because I am familiar withat least a few of your rebutals, weapon shops and caches will not last forever, and you still have to get through to them, loot them, and pack it off without starving, getting sick, not getting attacked, not getting swarmed, or not having some natural disaster destroying all of it.

156. Reaver on 28 Sep 2011 at 12:26 pm #

     Running out of mags would tip the scales towards a revolver, but you don’t always have to chamber a round in a semi. I count my shots with a 1911 and reload after six, so it cuts down on my reload time.

157. Travis on 28 Sep 2011 at 1:18 pm #

     The only resonable argument to be made for the revolver is its dependability. U cant say with any certanty that people shooting revolvers shoot differently than those shooting automatics. This argument bears a lott of speculation.

158. QAZZY 1-9th on 28 Sep 2011 at 2:17 pm #

     The cylinder in a revolver often pokes out too much, which isn’t a good thing in concealment. A 9mm is pretty flat, and therefore concealable.

     Where do you buy ammunition (or what brand of ammunition) for a .357, .44 or .38 to be a similar price to a 9mm? Those rounds are EXPENSIVE.

     @Travis a revolver is also more accurate. Big bullets, and the sights aren’t mounting to a moving piece of metal. When you have a harder to reload gun with a lower capacity, you’re more careful with your shots. I notice that my grouping with a 7.62 Remington 700 is better than that with a M1A, even if they’re the same caliber. With the 700′s bolt-action, I have to go slower, and that forces me to be more accurate. With the semi-automatic, I don’t have to go slower, I pull off shots as fast as my finger works, no need to use the bolt. It’s a mental thing, and can be worked around, but it’s hard to go against your subconscious.

159. P Cheng on 28 Sep 2011 at 2:35 pm #

     All I got is a .38. I’m thinking of getting a speedloader and a compensator and a laser sight for it. Speed and accuracy I imagine would be the key.

     As far as I can tell, the most commonly used handguns in the U.S. are 9mm or .45 so I imagine that these sizes of rounds would be easiest to scavenge. Dual wielding desert eagles would be so badass but I wonder about the practicability. All the fun mods for them are illegal, so that’s a bit disappointing. Dual wielding colt walkers would also be badass, but of course, wildly impractical for so many reasons.

     I think that generally revolvers are sturdier, because they don’t have all the moving parts, or even as many parts total as semi-auto handguns. The downside of course is that you only get six shots and reloading is harder. I think that there’s room for revolvers in a loadout in situations where you need accuracy and power for fewer targets.

     Practically speaking, a handgun needs to be able to kill both zeds and human enemies. I’m a big fan of the HP 9mm, shot one a few times and absolutely love it. I think it’s a good mix of power and magazine size. It’s also widely used, so one could conceivably scavenge rounds and other accessories fairly easily. The sleek design is both aesthetically pleasing and simple to maintain. Main problems: heavy trigger pull, and hammer bite. I think the heavy trigger pull can become an advantage in that you learn to conserve ammo. It somewhat negates the whole multiple rounds thing, but if you take the time to pull the aim and pull the trigger every shot, I think you’d be pleasantly surprised by the results. I hear on the later models , the hammer bite is not so bad, and that there’s home modifications you can do to fix it, so it’s practically a non-issue.

     Lethality as far as zeds go I think is a situational issue. If you need to incapacitate a zed, you can always shoot for the knees and then finish it up close. The relative safety that you get from offing a zed at range has to consider how accurate you are with your weapon. If you’re getting great kill shots every time, then by all means, aim for the head and make them count. If however, you’re shite at it, then I’d go with a body shot and hope for the best, and if they make it to you, just hope that you’ve disabled it enough to finish them up close easy. A good rule of thumb I’ve always found is comparing nose heights. I like to shoot from my nose to the target’s nose, I find that I usually do well this way as the eyes are harder to hit and the nose is the center of the face anyways.

     For me, aesthetics of a gun is a factor. Of course practicability is key, but given a choice between a good gun that’s ugly, and a good gun that looks badass, I’d go with badass every time. I really like the designs of the 1911s (plus they’re pretty common, so scavenging would be easy). I’d like to get one with a compensator, besides the accuracy increase, it just plain looks better. A longer barrel, even by just a few centimeters is just more intimidating looking.

     What kind of accessories would you guys use on your guns?

160. Docwade on 28 Sep 2011 at 7:40 pm #

     Makes my head hurt!

161. QAZZY 1-9th on 28 Sep 2011 at 9:34 pm #

     I say a lanyard is a must for a handgun. Makes a gun harder to drop, and has saved my ass more than once. A laser is also a good one. Aligning tritium dots is easy, putting a red dot on a target is easier.

162. Reaver on 28 Sep 2011 at 10:07 pm #

     something we may not have considered… .45 and 9mm are the most common handguns in america yeah, so scavenging would be plentiful at first. wouldn’t it also run out the fastest?

163. Docwade on 28 Sep 2011 at 10:31 pm #

     @wheelgunner
     “Really?”, it really takes longer to load a 17 round mag than loading a Single Action Army 3 times? Seriously. That made my head hurt also. Just the sheer number of movements involved, go to halfcock, open loading gate, eject spent casing, advance cylinder, eject spent casing, repeat four more times, reload chamber, advance cylinder, repeat five more times, close loading gate, bring hammer to full cock, discharge round, repeat five more times,

     Then repeat the above twice. Not to mention saa shorters always keep the hammer down on an empty chamber so you’re already short one round…

     Instead of loading a magazine with 17 rounds, insert into gun, chamber and fire 17 times. Now with all that out, the whole basis of your argument is rooted in world war one thinking. Magazines were expensive to produce, magazines were going to be lost by careless troops, magazine capacities encouraged wasteful use of ammunition. Besides, I would argue I can still load 6 rounds in my mag 3 times and shoot 18 aimed shots faster than a saa for 18 shots. Now, contrary to popular belief, I do like wheel guns. There’s something about the clockwork precision of a fine revolver. I was also fond of dinosaurs when I was 8. I’ll take my Glocks, blocky and ugly…in any color I want as long as it’s black. I won’t argue the accuracy of the revolver versus the automatic. Inside of real world pistol engagement distances, either one will suffice. Concealment? Yeah the revolver breaks up it’s outline better, but we’re talking zombies right? Besides, most of you talk about carrying a full sized revolver, a good 5″ or longer barrel, but people always go back to 38 snub as their concealment argument. When we’re knee deep in the shit, I’ll go with what I shoot, G34 or G17. You guys go with what YOU shoot…really, not on call of duty

164. wheelgunner on 28 Sep 2011 at 10:32 pm #

     Because everyone knows that everyone else is shooting it? Naw. All I’ve ever had a lanyard do is hang up and nearly kill somebody.

165. wheelgunner on 28 Sep 2011 at 10:46 pm #

     @Docwade-I carry a .32, thank you very much,and then only as a backup. My standard carry when I can carry one is always a full sized revolver. I always load up all the way, because leaving an empty chamber for anything other than recreational carry is way more trouble than it’s worth. I’ll stick by what I said with the reloads, but I will add that I took into acount the fact the manner than one would typically be carrying the ammunition. It is easier to load a ccylinder than a mag, and that is a fact. Fewer steps and less complication.

     And seriously, why would you buy a .38 special when you can buy a .357 magnum? It mystifies me.

166. Reaver on 28 Sep 2011 at 10:51 pm #

     yeah, the most commonly owned handgun would mean that people would use up that ammo very quickly. the smart thing to do would be use that first, and stockpile a few guns and a ton of cartridges in a less common round for when 9mm and .45 became scarce. I’m thinking 9mm, .45, 30-06, all shotgun shells, 7.62 and 5.56 would all run out very quickly.

167. wheelgunner on 29 Sep 2011 at 10:54 am #

     .45 acp? or Lc? or what? Please specify, for you arre giving me a headache

168. Docwade on 29 Sep 2011 at 11:13 am #

     I think people opt for 38 spl over 357 mag first due to cost, second due to weight. Those carry guns are usually belly guns though. Little snubs that might get shot twenty times in their drawer lifetime. I’m still not wrapping my mind around fewer movements to load a saa 18 times versus loading one 17 round mag. You still have to minipulate the cylinder for each round, both empty casing and fresh round. If you are going from the last shot in your 17 round mag, your slide is at slide lock, eject mag refill mag, put mag back in magwell, thumb slide stop, rock and roll.

169. Reaver on 29 Sep 2011 at 11:55 am #

     acp. I don’t think lc is as common.

170. McLuvin on 29 Sep 2011 at 12:40 pm #

     How can you guys argue about types of guns and calibers when you don’t know if .45ACP is more common than .45LC?

     That alone proves that you are not familiar with firearms!

     @Wheelgunner- It is not faster to reload a SA revolver than a 17rd magazine. What fullsize revolver do you carry? What caliber is it? Where do you “pick up” your ammo cheaper than 9mm? Show us your expertise!

     The reasons to pick .38 over .357 are numerous. You may like a vintage gun that was made before 1935. The old S&Ws and Colts are sought after. You may like a smaller gun that conceals easily. You don’t get much extra from a snubby in .357. you may want to save money on ammunition and magnums are almost universally more expensive. You may have an aversion to recoil and can’t handle magnums.

     @Reaver- I doubt you will be counting your rounds during a zombie attack. As Jeff Cooper once said ‘there is no sufficient lull in a firefight to top off you weapon”. Just reload when you run dry, that’s how it will work in the real world.

171. Reaver on 29 Sep 2011 at 2:27 pm #

     Mcluvin, just chill out a bit. Acp is the most common because pretty much every 1911 style pistol and more than a few polymers are chambered in it, while I’m pretty sure lr is only for certain revolvers. I just don’t want to make a claim without having a hard number sheet right in front of me. and I always count my rounds. even in a few speed shooting competitions I don’t count consciously and reload when I feel like I’ve shot six. I’m not usually wrong, so it saves me time and works for me.

172. Reaver on 29 Sep 2011 at 2:28 pm #

     *lc

173. Angryvikingman on 29 Sep 2011 at 7:59 pm #

     Why buy a. 357 over a. 38spcl? Well for one thing, you can shoot. 38 out of a. 357, so its a good dual shell weapon. Even if you have to reload constantly. That’s, that’s, that’s all I have to say about that.

174. wheelgunner on 29 Sep 2011 at 8:57 pm #

     That was the point I was making. It’s the same gun, you just can also shhot a more powerful cartridge.

     I meant to state the carttridge size as a general thing. .45 covers a lot of ground.

     Read the old posts. I’m tired of repeating which full sizes I carry. And I don’t see any need to tell you TP Outdoors and Simmons and suchlike when “local gun stores” will do.

     And seriously, how much loose ammo for an autoloader do you carry easy to reach? You have to for a revolver, which is why I say it’s faster, and I sighted the SAA because it’s the second slowest revolver I have ever reloaded.

175. McLuvin on 29 Sep 2011 at 10:10 pm #

     Kind of a long post to not answer any questions.

     What are the prices of comparable ammo in the various calibers mentioned. Did you find wolf .357 cheaper than Speer gold dot 9mm or did you actually find a shop that has American eagle 9mm higher than American eagle 357?

     So when you are talking about what calibers are most popular you list general bore diameters instead of actual cartridges?

     You are claiming the revolver is faster to reload with loose rounds because you would have them? That’s a pretty unfair comparison. That’s like saying I can cook soup faster than you because I bought soup and you didn’t.

176. Angryvikingman on 29 Sep 2011 at 10:23 pm #

     “So when you are talking about what calibers are most popular you list general bore diameters instead of actual cartridges?”

     When I hear someone say they have a 9mm, I don’t think that they automatically imply they’re shooting Speer Gold Dot, or Winchester White Box. I take it to mean they they’re shooting a 9mm. I think vague, not specific, that way I don’t jump to conclusions.

     As far as revolvers are concerned, seems to me like they’d be pretty damn slow to reload, but since I’ve shot revolvers maybe 20 times in my 31 years, I’d have to say that I don’t have the experience with that type of gun to be fast at reloading.

     I know that when I slam a mag into my CZ that the slide will close automatically and I don’t have to break my grip or make an extra movement for it to be ready to rock and roll. That being said, I will say that reloading an automatic is faster for me. I know I can put 6 rounds into a mag faster than I can a revolver. BUT THATS JUST ME.

177. wheelgunner on 29 Sep 2011 at 10:32 pm #

     Ah. None of my gun shops actually have any consitant ammunition choices. As in, we may have three 9mm makers, and three different .357 carriers. I just know I can find bullets that my guns like, and usually leave it at that.

     Wear do you carry your loose rounds for your autoloader when you pack up?

     You also have to have both hands to reload a mag, which is the argument I am making, not whether a preloaded magazine is faster to reload with than an empty cylinder. That ship sailed years ago.

     I shoot revolers the way that yall shoot autoloaders, so I can see where habit and training are making for the argument split here.

178. wheelgunner on 29 Sep 2011 at 10:33 pm #

     And all my guns save my Ruger Gunsite HATE Wolf.

179. Reaver on 29 Sep 2011 at 10:58 pm #

     what .357 and what 45 lc would you guys recommend? I think the ruger gp100 looks pretty solid for .357, but I don’t know of any .45 aside from the peacemaker.

180. wheelgunner on 29 Sep 2011 at 11:05 pm #

     My favorite is the reproduction Schofeild for the .45 lc. Hands down my favorite pistol. My .357 mag is made by Taurus, I don’t have a clue what the model is. Damn fine shooting and recoil isn’t bad at all. Easy to use dovetail sights.

181. McLuvin on 29 Sep 2011 at 11:07 pm #

     The GP100 is as solid as you can get for a .357. If you want to stick with Ruger you can get a Redhawk in .45LC. It is also a very solid revolver. I prefer S&W so I’d pick a 686 for .357 and a 625 for .45LC. I like the balance of the mountain gun in the LC. The Smiths aren’t as overbuilt as the Rugers, but they are smoother and more refined.

182. QAZZY 1-9th on 02 Oct 2011 at 7:21 am #

     Anyone see the 11-pound 12-gauge revolver they confiscated from a Brazilian drug dealer? Taurus, take note.

183. McLuvin on 02 Oct 2011 at 11:29 am #

     Didn’t see the story, but Taurus won’t make one. They already got in trouble for the 28ga version. Not worth the legal hassles.

184. QAZZY 1-9th on 02 Oct 2011 at 4:04 pm #

     It was a joke. The post is on thefirearmblog.com

     Their .410 is pretty sweet though.

185. McLuvin on 02 Oct 2011 at 6:10 pm #

     Great choice. Maybe you can dual wield and fan them.

186. CompShooter on 02 Oct 2011 at 6:15 pm #

     Yeah. ATF declared it a short barrel shotgun. Should have run it by them in the prototype stage to classify it before considering production…why not a 50 BMG revolver

187. Docwade on 02 Oct 2011 at 6:29 pm #

     Because I like my hands.

188. McLuvin on 02 Oct 2011 at 7:35 pm #

     Great ideas here, guys! Keep’em comin’.

189. Travis on 02 Oct 2011 at 8:11 pm #

     I think that after the s.h.t.f . The smartest move would be to choose widely popular calibers that up would be most likely to scavange. id much rather have a 357 than a 9mm but I would bett that they 9mm will be more available.

190. QAZZY 1-9th on 02 Oct 2011 at 8:20 pm #

     The new Taurus Judge Judy. Fires the .50 BMG. Your revolver isn’t powerful enough if it doesn’t brake your arm.

191. CompShooter on 02 Oct 2011 at 8:37 pm #

     Of courseI was being sarcastic.

192. Reaver on 02 Oct 2011 at 10:06 pm #

     Dual wielding and fanning would be great! except for the small problem of needing two hands to fan. maybe use the barrel of one to fan the other then switch? haha

193. QAZZY 1-9th on 03 Oct 2011 at 12:42 pm #

     What revolver is complete without a 4lb muzzle brake?

194. 3-15 INF on 05 Oct 2011 at 2:01 pm #

     well, I was warned it would happen eventually- the slide on my Walther p22 cracked after about 20k rounds. Cracked at the thinnest part of the ejection port on the left side. They make that slide from too cheap of metal.

195. McLuvin on 05 Oct 2011 at 2:45 pm #

     Yours lasted longer than most.

196. CompShooter on 05 Oct 2011 at 7:10 pm #

     It may not be the alloy, did the crack start at a sharp corner? Or possibly it ended at the ejection port but started elsewhere. I’m not hands on familiar with a p22 but cracks often start at sharp corners , whether it is a square hole or the bottom of a channel or slot . But also QC of heat treat during manufacture and possible work hardening can cause failures. Most receivers / slides are 4043 which has a good amount of carbon and ideal for firearms. While I like stainless on occasion, it too can workharden. too bad, Walther is usually decent stuff but design also plays into failure as well. It would be interesting to have it magna fluxed to see if there are other cracks.

197. Reaver on 05 Oct 2011 at 10:04 pm #

     I’ve heard that walther outsources to a much less reputable company for the p22, and that company uses cheap pot metal for the slide.

198. Angryvikingman on 06 Oct 2011 at 1:46 pm #

     I’ve got at least 20k through mine and its still running like a champ. Mine is a very very early model, maybe I just got lucky.

199. 3-15 INF on 06 Oct 2011 at 5:04 pm #

     no it cracked at the center of the left side of the ejection port running verticle starting from the slide stop. unfortunately, the walther p22 is made from outsourced parts from umarex and is not as durable as a buckmark or a ruger. Too bad, there’s alot about the pistol to like. i’m gonna see what I can do about getting the slide replaced, but I think I’m gonna get a ruger pistol somewhere in the future. i just like shooting suppressed 22 too much not to. this seems to be a common enough problem.

200. HMPlatinum on 06 Oct 2011 at 6:16 pm #

     I love my 1911′s. Really. Truly.

     That being said, I’d probably pick up a 9mm glock (or four) and another Buckmark (or four). And a LOT of ammo for both.

     (I can wear the 1911 around the fortress…yeah, that’ll make me feel better.)

201. QAZZY 1-9th on 06 Oct 2011 at 9:07 pm #

     Browning Hi-Power. I shot one and it’s amazing. Best of 9mm and good old Browning design. Why are trips issued the M9(92F) again?

202. CompShooter on 06 Oct 2011 at 9:50 pm #

     Yep. Outsourced says it all unfortunately…no control over specs.

203. 3-15 INF on 07 Oct 2011 at 1:36 pm #

     the same problem happens to our issued m9′s- the 124gr+p ammo we shoot wears ‘em out quick.

204. QAZZY 1-9th on 08 Oct 2011 at 9:28 am #

     The +P ammo really kills the M9 quick. Standard 9mm ball ammo has no stopping power anyways.

205. Angryvikingman on 08 Oct 2011 at 7:06 pm #

     Well, 124 grain is what NATO uses. It also has a hotter charge. If you have a heavier recoil spring, then it wont wear out the weapon as fast. They also make buffers to keep from breaking the slide locks and other stuff. As far as ball ammo goes, that’s all you can use in war because hollow points are against the Geneva convention.

206. McLuvin on 08 Oct 2011 at 8:12 pm #

     I believe it was the 1899 Hague Convention that originally outlawed DumDum bullets(expanding projectiles).

207. Reaver on 08 Oct 2011 at 10:43 pm #

     it’s kind of irrelevant now, since hollowpoints are so common, and most likely are more effective than an x hammered into a bullet.

208. McLuvin on 08 Oct 2011 at 11:45 pm #

     Not only are hollow points more common and accepted now, but the original “rules of war” were only signed by “civilized” countries as gentlemen’s agreements. Ragtag groups of rebels and insurgents should get no benefit from such agreements.

209. QAZZY 1-9th on 09 Oct 2011 at 9:16 am #

     The Geneva Convention is irrelevant. I saw a guy dump 4 rounds of 9mm ball into an insurgent and he didn’t do down, due to crappy shot placement. Hollowpoints would’ve done a better job.

     They don’t follow rules of war, why should we? Being nice doesn’t win you fights.

210. McLuvin on 09 Oct 2011 at 9:59 am #

     Hollowpoints can only do so much. Competence would have been better.

211. Angryvikingman on 09 Oct 2011 at 12:51 pm #

     Given the layered garments that insurgents wear, hollow points are prone to binding up. Ball ammo passes through easier. If that Guy would have gotten both lungs with any of his 4 shots, then that Guy wouldn’t have made it 10 feet. Like mcluvin said, competence is best. Seems like the military would teach better marksmanship than that.

212. QAZZY 1-9th on 09 Oct 2011 at 5:22 pm #

     True, true. Or maybe that guy should’ve used his rifle. Availability is an issue, but I think a good caliber between 9mm and .45 is .357 SIG, and 6.8 SPC is a great middle ground between .223 and .308.

213. 3-15 INF on 10 Oct 2011 at 1:06 pm #

     I’ve carried an M9 sometimes in sector and never had to shoot it. Iv’e seen the aftermath of Iraqis shooting each other (dead bodies) and it seemed to bust open a melon well enough.
     Bullets do wierd things, since there’s so many things that can happen and no shot is the same. The only round I know of that is an instant incapacitor is the .50 BMG.
     All combat calibers do their job pretty well. Consistency is a better term for good performing rounds. The 5.56, just like the .22lr isn’t very consistent. One shot could punch a small hole through a guy, and the next could knock a 4 inch exit wound. Just depends on what angle, speed, how the target is facing you, etc.

214. QAZZY 1-9th on 10 Oct 2011 at 10:02 pm #

     I’ve seen a 7.62 knock a neat little hole in a guy, but in one situation, I’ve seen it nick the wire of a chain link fence, tumble, and nearly cut someone in half. 5.56 sometimes tumbles and leaves nasty exit wounds, or go right through a guy. I find ball ammunition inconsistent, but I’m a fan of polymer-tipped expanding rounds. Consistent performance on soft fuzzy animals, and the results are consistently deadly.

     From what I’ve seen personally, the 5.56 is a much better performer at long distances than close, but it’s still preferable over a 9mm in close quarters.

     A round that I’ve seen with consistent performance is the 7.62×39. Big bullet, can lop off limbs. On the flip side, the 5.45 is a terrible performer.

215. McLuvin on 10 Oct 2011 at 10:09 pm #

     I’m all for rehashing old threads. It’s been a year since we showed our real loadouts and two since we did dream loadouts. I know some of us have traded some guns since then. Set some basic ground rules like pictures for real loadouts so you can prove you have it and a max weight for the fantasies to keep them realistic.

216. TZH on 16 Oct 2011 at 10:58 am #

     I’m a pistolero myself and its great to see the Para. I happen to love my 11 year old P16.40, its 18+1 with my extension. Head shots at 20 meters ain’t too hard. But I dig the suggestions here, I agree that 9mm should be an ideal caliber.

217. Castle83 on 20 Oct 2011 at 8:05 pm #

     @Mcluvin Exactly, or to prove that new people actually have a loadout. Another idea might be to tweak the the website to post all new posts in an area regardless of thread. This way you could post without needing to sift through old posts on an off chance someone had something new to say.

218. Angryvikingman on 20 Oct 2011 at 8:16 pm #

     @castle83 Admins have that ability, I just don’t know enough about wordpress to say if normal users have that ability.

219. Castle83 on 20 Oct 2011 at 9:15 pm #

     @Angryvikingman Makes sense. As far as I can tell normal users can’t. If it’s Ok with everyone, I will link anything I want feedback with to a recent thread. Though I think Mcluvin has the right idea with a new loadout thread, good on ya brother.

220. Angryvikingman on 21 Oct 2011 at 11:19 am #

     I emailed the admin. Let y’all know when I know.

221. j.d. on 24 Oct 2011 at 12:30 am #

     Um well i have a h&k usp full size .45 and a compact .45
     personally I wouldn’t carry or use anything else. it feeds all brands of .45 and has NEVER jammed. it fits in my hands perfectly, is lightweight for me and i can reload in seconds. i’m not a big guy either. 5’11 170lbs. as for an AR-15 I used to have one. I’d prefer an m4, a russian saiga OR the H&K Gk3 in .308. it’s not long and short for close quarters and has WAY more power than a shotty .223/5.56. you can also get extended mags and would be GREAT!

222. Angryvikingman on 24 Oct 2011 at 9:15 am #

     Hey guys, go to http://WWW.zombiesarecoming.com/wp-admin, register and you can check new comments and whatnot like admins do. Registering doesn’t give you admin powers or anything, but the interface is better than going back and visiting old articles to see if they’ve been posted on.

223. Castle83 on 24 Oct 2011 at 11:02 am #

     Good lookin out Angry, I’ll go register, thanks.

224. 3-15 INF on 24 Oct 2011 at 2:06 pm #

     those hk .45 pistols are the first .45′s I’d say are designed better than a 1911

225. Reaver on 24 Oct 2011 at 8:42 pm #

     I signed up on that wordpress thing, but I have no clue how to view new posts.

226. McLuvin on 25 Oct 2011 at 12:24 am #

     You won’t have to worry about too many new posts unless we get a new topic started.

227. CompShooter on 25 Oct 2011 at 9:20 pm #

     I shot the Hell out of a G 23 but not interested in another caliber inventory . G21
     SF is 45 cal . Anybody here have experience with Springfield XD vs G21SF? Specificaly girth of the back strap area of both and any reliability concerns?

228. McLuvin on 25 Oct 2011 at 10:21 pm #

     Both are reliable. The Glock grip is a little bigger. The XD has a heavier slide and a higher bore axis so it will have a little more felt recoil. Parts and accessories are easier to find and cheaper for the Glock, but they aren’t too bad for the XD.

229. Castle83 on 26 Oct 2011 at 1:34 pm #

     I’ve had my xd .45 5″ tactical for a little over a year. I’ve put about 4k rounds through it. Highly accurate and fits good in my large hands. No failures and one missfeed from a reload. All in all I would recommend it. I’ve fired both the glock 19 9mm and xd 9mm extensively. In my personal opinion I prefer the xd’s over the glock platform but I think it’s mostly preference, they are both pretty accurate. Anyone shot the sig 1911r? They have a new one they just came out with that comes railed with laser sights that I’m thinking about making my next purchase.

230. Castle83 on 26 Oct 2011 at 1:36 pm #

     Also I prefer the xd trigger pull to a glock, seems allot smoother to me.

231. McLuvin on 26 Oct 2011 at 2:01 pm #

     The Sig 1911s have a reputation of being OK. They are average in most ways. I had one of the first GSRs that were handmade before mass production started. It was a nice gun, but not exceptional. The first run had great accuracy because of the hand fitting, but the newer ones are not known as bullseye guns. I prefer Springfield Armory for a production 1911. If you can afford to splurge a little bit, the SA TRP and Dan Wesson Valor are two of the best bargains in 1911s.

232. Castle83 on 26 Oct 2011 at 2:10 pm #

     Right on, thanks Mcluvin.

233. RBV on 15 Nov 2011 at 10:56 pm #

     I am very surprised no one has said anything about the Hi-Point Pistol / Carbine combo in .45 ACP.

     1. Hi-Points are extremely affordable, well-built, simple and come with a lifetime warranty (I’ve only heard of one return and it was a magazine issue)

     2. The Carbines and Pistols use the same magazines. Undeniably useful.

     3. The Carbines are very light for a rifle, and the Pistols are heavy for a handgun. The carbines get onto target very quick (especially with a red dot), the stocks have available magazine holders, and in a worst case scenario you run out of ammo or have a jam, the pistol can be used as an effective blunt object.

     For around $600, you can suit up with the Hi-Point .45 Carbine with a folding vertical forward grip and magazine holders, the Hi-Point .45 JHP Pistol, and a couple of extra magazines. An Absolute Bargain.

     In my own experience, I love Hi-Point. I prefer .45 ACP for stopping power should I ever need to defend my family’s food or water supply from intruders.

     I encourage everyone to research it. I believe you will be impressed.

234. ZSAR on 25 Nov 2011 at 10:13 pm #

     I know alot of people will disagree with me here, but I have both of these and I think that a 1911 and the Bear Grylls survival knife would be the best zombie breakout secondary weapon.

235. J.d. on 02 Dec 2011 at 7:25 pm #

     @RBV. Personally I’m glad there are people who actually buy Hi-Point products because your keeping them in business. On the other hand I would never buy one. What looks cheap usually is. I’d never trust one of their guns in a firefight. My uncle swears by them and I think my dad bought one. I don’t own any American firearms. All either German or Russian. I had a S&W 686 6”, .357. I hated it. Worst gun I’ve ever bought. It actually gave me a huge distaste for revolvers in general. My next purchase is going to be another H&K or a Glock. When it comes to saving my life I can’t take a chance on cheaply built weapons. All it would take is something to not work in them and your life is over. I’ve dropped my .45 compact 3 times by accident over the several years I’ve had it and it works with no issues. They have the best quality steel barrels and have been tested in subzero temperatures for dependability. You cannot beat that and so far there is NO AMERICAN company that can compete with German engineering. Glock counts because it’s Austrian and they’re up on their shit too. It comes down to personal preference. As far as dependability and quality I have to go with the H&K and or the Glock. It pisses me off when people say you’re just paying for a name. I’m paying for the best quality handgun bro not some cheap imitation. Hell the slide release on the USP’s are easy to get to with the thumb having thick gloves on. Quick magazine release. It’s just perfect. I don’t like the way 1911′s feel in my hands and I know you can get grips but why would I spend the extra money when I have something that fits right the first time. I’ll never defend another brand more than H&K or Glock. I would love to purchase different styles and brands of firearms over time but as far as saving my ass it’s H&K.

     @3-15 INF. You have a smart idea buying extra barrels. Imagine something like this starts out of no where. Your going to go through ammunition probably quicker than you think. None of us are really ever going to be prepared enough for this. We will be pretty safe and good to go but in the end we won’t have enough. The only way to survive something like this is to stick together with people you know and trust. Strangers just statistically could and would turn your plans into disasters. You don’t have time to argue with someone at the last second. They would be devistational to you and your group.

     Going back to the .45 debate. With a 100% undoubt I would use a .45 over any round. 9mm is great if you want to have a ton of chances to miss. Rifle wise an 8mm mauser or 30.06 would be your best bet. Neither round is hard to come by and you can get TONS of surplus dirt cheap! Hell you can get a case of 20 Mosin Nagants for 1500 shipped!

236. wheelgunner on 02 Dec 2011 at 10:21 pm #

     I’ve literally seen a Hi-Point break into two halves when shot before. I know one guy who had to hold the magazine in the gun for it to work. They are clunky, inaccurate, and unreliable, in my experience, with a number of firearms, calibers, models, and shooters to judge by. You get what you pay for.

     Finally broke down and bought a p22 target pistol. It shoots better than I do.

237. Scott on 05 Dec 2011 at 7:39 pm #

     My Zombie Apocalypse weapons: Bushmaster AR-15, Colt Commander .45, Remington 870 riot gun, Smith&Wesson Model 19 .357 magnum, and last but not least, a Sears Marlin .22 bolt action rifle. Plus a military issue entrenching tool, a Ka-Bar fighting knife, and a good old fashioned Louisville Slugger. I’m looking to buy a Smith&Wesson M&P in 9mm sometime in the near future.

238. wolf5.7 on 06 Dec 2011 at 5:25 pm #

     I own a fn 5.7, am not in a mexican drug cartel, and have plenty of ammo for it and the dies to reload it (that took some doing). Whoever said that a 5.7 is flimsy and has a bad trigger must have had their Kimber in their hand, because I can drill a soda bottle at 50 yards with mine. And Honestly, I am a crap shot. So I disagree, a 5.7 is a great gun to have if you have had time to stockpile the ammo. Besides a box of 50 rounds is 23 USD, about the same as a box of 50 45acp.

239. RBV on 06 Dec 2011 at 9:09 pm #

     @J.D

     I am not going to try to argue that Hi-Point is anywhere near the quality of a Glock, but I would urge you to shoot one. The key to Hi-Point is value. They are not the highest quality firearms on the market, and you do get what you pay for, but they are not cheaply made. I keep the JHP pistol in my home and I honestly trust it to perform should I ever need it.
     EDC? Nope. But that is mostly because it is enormous and bulky.

     @Wheelgunner There are numerous videos on YouTube of Hi-Point pistols failing to feed, and even some videos of catastrophic malfunctions, but don’t forget, every pistol is a machine, and even the highest quality machine can and will eventually fail at some point. As for accuracy and durability, Hi-Point is not lacking and if one of their guns is lacking, they will take them back and fix the issue no questions asked.

     Don’t take my word for it, or anyone else’s for that matter. Go and shoot one and see if you are pleased with them or not.

240. wheelgunner on 07 Dec 2011 at 12:53 am #

     Maybe I should refraise my statement to say that out of the ten or so Hi-Point firearms I’ve either shot, or been around when they where shot by freinds of mine, that I’ve only seen one that wasn’t a total peice of garbage, in so much as that it would cycle a box of ammunition without a catastrophic malfunction. Please refrain from advirtising them in my presence.

     And seriously, what part of that is value, save that it may, possibly, be better that your fist when you need it. Some of those things are a heck of a club.

241. badhombre on 09 Dec 2011 at 1:08 pm #

     Well, when Z-day finally happens, I’ll be carrying my 1911A1 and my AR-15. One extra weapon is my maverick 12 ga. loaded with 00 buck and door breacher rounds also on hand. I also have a cold steel bat and a cold steel machete. I have a bugout bag with extra ammo and a 3 day pack full of survival gear. Zombies are one thing but other people will be out there to rob you of your stuff, I have my kevlar helmet and vest for armed conflict.

242. scaryalbino on 16 Dec 2011 at 1:02 am #

     Ok dont mug me on this one but i really do carry a desert eagle .44. Im 6´6 and 230 pounds, i can concealed carry that beast and most people say “that thing looks normal in your hands” when im shooting it. ALL THAT SAID: will i be carrying this on Z day? yes. Will i have a .45 or .40 on me as well? Yes! The .44 is nice because i can “tear a zombies head clean off” one second and take a deer or even bear down the next. Its probably the most recognizable pistol on the planet so people who come after supplies know you are not messing around. Also if my gun ever jams, or if im out of ammo i can always bash with it. So is the Desert Eagle my first choice? no way will i use it because i have it and know im good with it? hell yes. this is the opinion you have to adopt.

     Disclaimer: i am not a Call of duty player, i hate that game and have the utmost loathing for people who think they know anything about guns based on the shooting mechanics found in those games.

243. Tacoprankster on 20 Dec 2011 at 2:04 pm #

     There is an important point that needs to be considered – noise. Zombies are attracted to noise. Pistols that can be effectively suppressed should be a topic of discussion.

     There are some nice offerings from HK and FNH that come ready to accept suppressors.

244. thatguy on 10 Jan 2012 at 11:39 pm #

     I think one of the big guns your overlooking is the Sig Sauer P226 (9mm), the mag capacity is just as good as any other at 15+1 and they are very accurate and reliable (I’ve ran at least 2,500 and have had one, maybe two minor malfunctions. I mean there is a reason NAVY SEALS use this gun. Its also pretty accurate, i can get a 2-4 inch grouping at 25 yards which is definitely enough to hit a zed head. Yes I realize they are a bit pricey at about $750 but if your willing to pay for it you wont regret it.

     This combined with my stag arms model 3 with a suppressor and i think i will be able to hold down the fort, or if i have to, go on the offensive

245. krustypuff on 22 Feb 2012 at 4:49 am #

     What about a detonic 10mm. The 10 has plenty of stopping power lol…

246. scotty on 26 Feb 2012 at 12:00 pm #

     Sadly I can not own a gun if ’28 days later’ got real but I know the police and the army use 9MM pistols so any thing they have would be a good option when it comes too ammo.!
     So instead for me I would use a baseball bat and my Cold Steel Trail Tomahawk axe for stress relief plus a protective face mask ;)

247. JDawg on 19 May 2012 at 1:56 am #

     I’m new here and am checking things out. I’ll weigh in on the side of 9mm, particularly Glocks. My choice would be the Glock17 Gen4. It’s a thing of beauty, has all the benefits of using a Glock (super-reliability, inter-changeable, etc), and it’s what I consider an improvement on the standard G17. It’s a top choice in my book. The G34 is great for target/competition shooting, but there’s a reason the G17 is the most widely used by both police and the military: it has fewer parts so it’s easier to maintain and service, they’re very widely available, milder recoil, has a high capacity and they’re great for beginners and enthusiasts alike. That’s my gun.

248. BOB on 19 May 2012 at 1:20 pm #

     @McLuvin
     Cops are not bad shots if you go to New york or any of those citys (since my stepdads on they are crasy fricking accurate and a lot of times one shot is all they need maybe if ur out in the boonies they mighty have to shoot u 15 million times but in a city they are accurate and they have to cause other wise they will kill civilans (that happend a lot before they swiched to hollowpoints).

     Just my two cents

249. Pvt Jarhead on 28 May 2012 at 3:30 pm #

     I would have to say, use my 22. cal Bolt Action Rifle W/ Scope. the Zombie Survival Guide says that 22. cal’s are pretty good when it comes to punching through a rotten skull. so thats what i would use. either that or a Colt Python.

250. fastpass on 28 May 2012 at 10:25 pm #

     Sig Sauer p226 combat tactical .40acp Fast, accurate, reliable, easy to field strip, clean and repair and lets not leave out BEAUTIFUL! Duel carried with a Taurus judge .410 as a back up. As for main, I’d go with a Heckler & Koch G36 5.56x45mm assault rifle. A little heavy, yes, but it puts out an amazingly accurate shot even whilst firing fully automatic. Just my opinions of course.

251. DMFS14220 on 30 May 2012 at 11:57 pm #

     I think I’ll keep my pair of glock 31 in .357sig with me but I do have the conversions to turn them into a 9mm or the new .50 cal. I guess it all depends on the Zeds and what kind of mood in in.

252. 5 Websites To Survive The Zombie Apocalypse | Rockstar Radio™ Official on 31 May 2012 at 3:44 pm #

     [...] you are already in the middle of the shit. It has everything from preserving vegetables to your Zombie gear and myths surrounding [...]

253. TrueCelt on 29 Jun 2012 at 12:11 pm #

     Fuck carrying a pistol at all. If you’re close enough to use a pistol, don’t even think about using it, just run. Chances are unless you have a stock on the pistol all the adrenaline and the weight of the weapon at arms length will give you far reduced accuracy. Especially when something so repugnant and insulting to the the eye, hell, to nature itself, is shambling towards you, don’t discount the psychological effect of seeing something so nightmare-ish.

     Use your main weapon and when they get close that’s the time to re-locate. Always think of yourself as a sniper in a Zombie Apocalypse, stealth and positioning are absolutely paramount, you can’t kill every one you see, and if you’re detected it’s time to re-locate. The more distance you keep between you and the enemy, the less chance of infection and the calmer you can remain, which will only help your accuracy. Think Wolverines. You’re not an army, you’re a guerrilla force, the zombies are too numerous to fight head on.

     If I was absolutely PUSHED into carrying a pistol, I’d take a Glock or a Beretta, they both seem to be dependable guns, can carry a high-cap mag, and the chances are you’ll find ammo for them. Even then I’d still keep the thing holstered as often as possible, there’s really no good reason to alert more zombies when you’re already close to your target, that’s too risky in my book.

     And finally, anyone talking about suppressors, yeah that’s fine, they cut down on the noise (don’t completely remove it), but what about the body hitting the ground? Dead weight bodies, clattering to the floor, that’s loud enough, but all it takes is a few plates, a pot or a pan, there are a lot of things that will cause sufficient noise to alert more zombies. Once again I say fuck the pistol, if you’re that close to the enemy you’ve already made a huge mistake

254. zorxoz on 23 Jul 2012 at 6:17 pm #

     My loadout is ruger 10/22 breakdown [$320] taurus .357 mag w/ 4in barrel [$200] springfield XD 9mm subcompact [$500]

     With this loadout i am light and mobile, under 100meters i can put an entire 25 round mag into a zombies skull, revolver backup, light recoil can shoot all day and stay on target, can use cb long 22 ammo for near silent kills without a suppressor.

     Everyone thinks you need a lot of ammo…. you are idiots use stealth if a zombie is 100 meters away avoid it you have no reason to engage. (You may want to take them out that far away but nothing goes as planned… remember that!)

     P.s. if you live in suburbs build bridges out of what you can find to connect the roofs of your neighbors house to yours for some quick and safe escape routes

255. zombiekiller1318 on 10 Aug 2012 at 10:29 pm #

     One Glock 22 (full size), .40cal with a tac light in drop leg hoster.

     One Glock 27 (compact), .40cal in either an ankle holster or if I can find a holster for my tac vest.

256. 3-15 INF on 05 Jan 2013 at 1:18 pm #

     not a bad idea to have to pistols that feed from the same mags, i mean cops do it. I disagree about the sound of a body hitting the ground. Just get up out of your chair and hit the ground. Nobody can hear that for more than 50 feet. i don’t see how that would attract alot of attention.

257. 3-15 INF on 16 Jan 2013 at 12:50 pm #

     @zorxoz

     I got a 10/22 takedown before i deployed- great gun and a perfect choice. cb long is not deadly, though.

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