Rifles for the Zombiepocalypse
So everyone has their favorite type and brand of rifle, but here are a few for you to consider adding to your Z-day arsenal.
Long Range
Of course everyone fantasizes about popping one in a zombie’s melon from 1,000 yards, but whats your best bet as far as accuracy and BANG for your buck? (Assuming you acquire it before z-day, because after that, everythings free. ;) )
The Remington Model 700 SPS Tactical – Under $800. Comes in .308 and .223. Accurate to 1,000 yards depending on the ammo you use.
The CZ 750 Sniper – $1,999. A little pricey, but CZ is a world leader in firearms and this particular rifle is capable of Sub MOA groups. Comes only in .308, and is also accurate to 1,000 yards.
And of course, for those of you who love semi-auto rifles:
The HK SR9TC The germans make some of the best weapons in the world, and the price tag for this baby can be up to $7000. ( I paid $3,500 for mine) Chambered in .308, and accurate up to 1,000 yards, this baby has the ability for fast follow up shots in case you have multiple targets. Capable of raining lead with 20 round magazines. Only 125 were ever imported into the United States. (But, you can find them from time to time on gunsamerica and gun broker.)
Medium/Close Range
So you want to drop a zombie at less than 1000 yards? Most of us aren’t going to be taking 1,000 yard shots anyway. Here are some rifles that cover a medium range of up to about 500 yards.
The FN FAL $1200-$1700 Replace the top cover with a picatinny rail and you can mount all kinds of optics on it, and these rifles fire .308. A good heavy hitting round.
The PTR 91 $1,000. A clone of famed HK G3 series of rifles, this is also chambered .308. Iron sights are accurate out to 400 yards, but 1200 yard iron sights are available. You can also mount any manner of optics on this rifle as well.
And now, the AR platform. AR platform weapons are available in a wide range of calibers, and range in price from $700-$2,000. Some of the most popular calibers for this platform are .223/5.56 and .308, but it also is available in .22LR, ,FN 5.7, 6.8 SPC, 7.62×39, .300 blackout, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, and even .50 BMG. Also, its one of the most customizable rifles out there.
Optics Choices
Depending on your preference, there are so many kinds of optics out there its ridiculous. You can get red dots that are accurate out to 300-500 yards, and some can extend their range by using a 4x magnifier. There are also optics such as the ACOG that reportedly can hit out to 800 yards. Scopes can also be used that have magnification factors from 4x-50x. Make a choice that suits your needs and ability with the rifle, but remember…. You need back up sights just in case.
Comments (173)
wheelgunner on 13 Jun 2012 at 9:30 pm #
Looks like I’m up to bat.
Winchester 1873 lever action reproduction in .45 Long Colt, by Uberti. I like the thin sights, which are easy to adjust and allow me to see what I and aiming at, not just the front blade. I despise that about most modern, and especially tactical guns.
I also own a Ruger Gunsite Scout Carbine, which I currently have outfited with a 3x9x50mm scope, in a misguided attempt to learn to use a scope. It’s coming off as soon as I have time to replace the iron sights. I just have to face the music, and accept the fact that this wheelgunner isn’t meant for shooting at a magnified target. I can’t hit a thing with a scope. It is a bolt action, and it is not the best one I have shot, but it isn’t the worst, especially when run at speed. It has a ten round detachable box magazine, in .308.
On a special note, the balance of the rifle is beautiful, right out of the box. I found it easier and faster to run a clearing drill inside my house with it than with a pistol, and the trigger is light and crisp, with a clean break.
wheelgunner on 13 Jun 2012 at 9:34 pm #
To clarify, the action of working the bolt itself is rough. It is in fact the only complaint I have with the rifle.
Angryvikingman on 13 Jun 2012 at 10:46 pm #
New bolts are like that. Took forever for my BCG in my new AR to mate correctly because of the sharp edges.
wheelgunner on 14 Jun 2012 at 12:54 am #
At least it runs better than my Nagant shooting steel case surplus. I take a hammer with me just in case.
Docwade on 17 Jun 2012 at 7:15 pm #
Wheelgunner,
I just picked up a stainless Rossi lever gun in 357/38 with 24″ octagonal barrel on gunbroker. It was a steal at $380. It was already upgraded with the metal follower, safety plug, and trigger spring and extractor upgrades. I’m in sort of a lever action kick right now. I like Uberti, just don’t like paying Uberti prices. Bought an IAC 1887 20″ 12 gauge recently also. It was a project purchase that I’m going to have either nickel- boron coated or hard chromed.
wheelgunner on 18 Jun 2012 at 5:08 pm #
Sweet. I’ve never tried the Rossi, but I’ve looked at a few. I am just not a fan of the ’92 frame Winchesters and nock offs, which is most of what they get in around here, if anything at all. I want something in .45-70, but the reveiws I’ve been reading on the Chiappa 1886 Winchester are terrible, and I cannot make up my mind if it is worth the money to shell out for a Sharps or Sharps carbine, and only get one shot out of the package.
Docwade on 18 Jun 2012 at 5:51 pm #
I’ve never tried out a 45-70 or any other of the cartridge variations. I always wanted a Sharps repro ever since Quigley.
Docwade on 18 Jun 2012 at 5:55 pm #
As a side note, I did finally manage to snag a Marcolmar Hungarian PKM collectors package. It’s a very fine gpmg in semi auto, and slams steel plates at 125 yards with irons all day. I still like the trigger on my rpd’s more though.
hao lin mad on 18 Jun 2012 at 9:03 pm #
I’m pretty happy with my street sweeper. Mossberg 500 with tactical stock. its great for close range up to 200 or 300 m/slugs or close range with buckshot. I like to alternate my shells.
HangMan on 18 Jun 2012 at 9:26 pm #
My primary rifle would be my Winchester Model 70 30.06 It holds 5 and is good to about 500 yards though I’ve shot it farther. The reason this would be my primary is because I know it the best. I have my recently aquired 1911 as my sidearm. I traded my ruger p95 for something a little bit bigger. Then I’ve got my moss 500 attatched to my ruck. I put pistol grip on it after some debate. My thoughts are “Well if they’re close enough for me to use it properly, then I won’t have to have perfect aim.” My winchester is packing 160 grain. It’s got iron sights on it with an inexpencive bushnell scope on it, nothing too fancy due to one fact: If it breaks I don’t wanna feel like I’ve blown my money. Also have a little mini bi-pod for prone shooting.
wheelgunner on 19 Jun 2012 at 12:22 am #
The only problem I have with the Quigley Sharps, which, by-the-by, is the official production name of the reproductions, is that it shoots .45-120′s. I, for one, want nothing to do with that much gun unless I have some honest to god buffalo to shoot at 500 yards.
Docwade on 19 Jun 2012 at 6:05 am #
Wasn’t there an episode on one of those outdoors shows with a NASCAR driver and his pregnant wife banging a buffalo steel gong at 900 yards with the Quigley repro off a rest using the vernier sight?
McLuvin on 19 Jun 2012 at 1:21 pm #
I’m glad there is some activity finally on here.
I just wish it was intelligent activity.
First of all, unless someone has extensive training and constant practice, you aren’t shooting headshots at 500m let alone 1000. Just because a rifle is capable of extreme distance doesn’t mean anyone can hit at those ranges. The average shooter can’t hit headshots consistently at 100 so long range is a pipe dream.
Wheelgunner, I can understand your fondness for cowboy guns, but if you would really pick them for zombies you are showing your inexperience. No matter how good you are with a lever gun or single action revolver they have too many shortcomings to be considered for a zombie scenario. I also question your “inability” to learn to shoot a scope. If that’s the case, I have a hard time believing that you can shoot very well at all, with any gun.
Hao Lin Mad, if you really think your tactical mossberg is capable of 200-300 yard shots, you obviously have never shot it at any real distance.
Hangman, your idea of having a cheap scope so you aren’t out a bunch of money if it breaks is counterproductive. By buying a cheap scope you are increasing the likelihood that it will break. A nicer scope will be less likely to break. As for your pistol grip mossberg not needing to be aimed properly at close range, you couldn’t be more wrong. The Hollywood idea that a shotgun spreads out to a 5′ pattern across the room is bullshit. At close range birdshot will have about the same spread as a slug. If you take away the stock you also lose the ability to point it accurately which will result in misses and death.
McLuvin on 19 Jun 2012 at 1:25 pm #
This is yet another thread that leads me to believe that most of the posters on here have never shot a gun outside of a video game.
Angryvikingman on 19 Jun 2012 at 4:24 pm #
I love shooting with a scope. My longest shots have been taken at 500 yards. Would have tried longer shots, but around here you can’t get out that far without running into houses. I wasn’t making head shots, but I was hitting the target, and I had about a 1 foot group. I might have done better, but at that range there was heat mirage, and wind. You don’t need constant and exceptional training to hit out at 500 yards. Lots of people out here in the sticks make long range shots on a regular basis. Its called Deer Hunting. We shoot year round, at distance. Now, I’ve never shot a deer out past 150 yards, but thats because I’ve never had to. Usually, we sight our deer rifles in at 200 yards, that way you can take a 100 or 300 yard shot with no adjustment, we just use hold off/kentucky windage. We’re also taught to shoot from a very young age. There are a lot of people I know who could make shots out to 500 yards if they really wanted to, maybe not head shots, but definately torso.
wheelgunner on 19 Jun 2012 at 6:53 pm #
I have a friend who shot a white tail buck at three hundred forty yards in the back of the head with a Weatherby Vangaurd, in .270 with a sixty dollar scope, while the deer was running away.
Once, this same friend fired four rounds in close succession at varmints, with three kills, and one lost in a swamp that had been running when he shot, and his neighbors came running from three directions armed for bear because they thought he was in a gun fight, because he never misses that many shots when he fires.
@McLuvin-My biggest problem with scopes is that I do not prop up when I shoot. I make my shots almost entirely offhand, and my unfamiliarity with scopes tends to make me jerk the shot. That makes them bulkier and more difficult to travel with in the terrains I run around in. I also have trouble judging range with it, because I think of range in terms of how many times I need to raise or lower the rear sight as oposed to a definable distance away. Say, move it up four notches instead of, say, the target is at two hundred and fifty yards distant. Shooting my friend’s gun, I can shoot subMOA at a hundred yards. I just don’t like them. The only reason that I have one on now is that 50mm lense picks up targets when I cannot even see my iron sights. I intend to find some type of glowing paint or a glowing blade for them soon, it just has mattered little so far.
wheelgunner on 19 Jun 2012 at 7:19 pm #
*the subMOA shooting is off of a bench.
And I’m sorry McLuvin, but a I went out and picked up a new smokewagon. It’s a Uberti 1851 Colt Navy Cartidge Conversion, sold that way for smokeless powder .38 S&W Special cartridges. I ran a full fifty rounds through it as soon as I got home, and s far have been nothing but impressed with it. So long as I didn’t get too excited about having a new gun it shot right where I was aiming.
While I will not say forget everything else, cowboy guns are the best, I will say, that I have shot. I have shot and owned a lot of guns, and the ones that I have kept have generally been of that variety, though I do have an equal number of WWII weapons in my collection. They tend to be the the last time that guns were designed to be shot offhand with iron sights, or at least the only ones I have stumbled across. I also like longer barrels and sight radiuses, which puts the weight out in front of the gun. Just how I like them. I like chopping blades and axes for the same reason. Doesn’t bother me a bit. I am a fan of pistol whips instead of magazine drops, and most autoloaders tend to have wide, blocky sights, which I shoot less well with, being accustomed to finer, often more easily adjusted sights that are further apart. I am a HUGE fan of external hammers, and those are getting harder to come by, period. So, once again, old tech is my only available tech. I also find it easier to draw a revolver.
Anybody care to pick any of that apart?
Docwade on 19 Jun 2012 at 8:45 pm #
It’s always the same old debate. “Choose this rifle because I say so” sort of thing. There will always be two camps at the very minimum, those who believe a 22lr will be sufficient, and those who want something heavier. Wheel gun vs semi auto, semi auto vs full, long range vs intermediate vs short, and the dreaded 9mm vs 45acp. If popular media is the guide, we are all wrong because not one of us has a lever action 500smith “end of days” gun ala American Gun.
Docwade on 19 Jun 2012 at 8:51 pm #
Sorry, forgot to add, “mare’s leg”
McLuvin on 19 Jun 2012 at 8:54 pm #
You say that you like a fine sight and modern guns have overly wide blades. A fine crosshair is thinner and more precise than any iron sight.
A scope can’t make you “jerk a shot”. Poor trigger control makes you jerk. If you mean that you can’t hold the scope steady then I will say that the gun is just as steady with scope or sights. The magnification makes your shakes appear exaggerated, but the gun is moving the same amount. If you can’t hold a scoped rifle steady then you can’t hold any rifle steady.
I’m glad you like your new revolver. It’s still a poor choice for the given topic. You may shoot a SA revolver or levergun well, but after you’ve killed a handful of zombies you have two poorly designed impact weapons. The shortcomings outweigh any perceived benefits.
To say that you’d rather start pistol whipping than have the ability to reload quickly is asinine. You would be dead in minutes if you were in a fight.
I don’t doubt that you have a friend who is a crack shot. That has nothing to do with what we are discussing. I could tell innumerable stories of fantastic shooting that I’ve heard of, but it won’t make any of them true or pertinent to this topic.
As for not knowing distance and just judging rear sight adjustments, that’s bullshit. Every gun has different adjustments. You have to know the approximate distance to know how much to adjust. Even if you just crank away for unknown distances you could do that easier and more precisely with a scope turret than your iron sights.
wheelgunner on 19 Jun 2012 at 9:39 pm #
I usually just shoot the gun till I have the impact point figured out for the rifle for that particular sight setting. Same way you shoot a scope to sight it in. And, like a scope, you have to relearn it for each gun.
And while you may find it easier to adjust a turrent, I prefer to make an easy adjustment on my rifle that I don’t have to count clicks on. My freind that shoots scopes all the time has these arguments with me all the time, so I get where your argument is coming from, but I know what happens when I shoot, and what my particular weaknesses are. I jerk on the scope shots because I overcompensate for the magnified movements I would not normally notice. I could argue this out for a while. I jerk when I shoot scopes, scopes don’t spontaneously make me jerk the trigger.
When I’m at a range to need to pistol whip, I will be too close to whatever it is that I am contemplating hitting with my cylinder to reload a mag. And, it is useful for something other than zombies.
Part of my point in bringing my freind up was to point out that expense does not necesarily denote accuracy, and that argument runs both ways. Thus, it relates to a comment aimed at another poster.
@Doc-Yo Comprendo. But, if he wants an argument to “liven” things up, why not? He’s going to complain about something else if not this. And I’ll probably still rise to the bait to humor myself about the fisherman.
HangMan on 19 Jun 2012 at 11:18 pm #
No my general idea of it is more of a debilitation weapon McLuvin. If they’re close enough for me to use it properly I’m bugging the fuck out and bolting. I’ll settle for a hip or knee hit to slow them down. The reason I buy cheap optics is because I hardly ever use it. I prefer iron sights on my rifle but for long range shots, I’ll take it out. Keep your opinions to yourself about the posters on here. Some may be full of shit, and some of us may just have different priorities than you. I’d much rather slow them down and get away safely then constantly trying to pull head shots.
wheelgunner on 20 Jun 2012 at 1:13 am #
May the tactics dictate the weapon? Pretty good axiom if you ask me. I get the impression that McLuvin is going to Rambo every single undead on the planet in one go from the way he talks about it.
And may I say, from generally being on the receiving end of the argument, that I do grow weary of people quoting stat charts and dogma and ignoring or degrading a real life experience that is not explainable or “intelligent” looking on paper.
wheelgunner on 20 Jun 2012 at 1:17 am #
I almost hate to bring it up, and it may be on here somewhere, but did you guys see the cowboy action shooter out shoot the sub machine gun on American Guns?
Angryvikingman on 20 Jun 2012 at 7:01 am #
I did see that. 13 year old kid thats 3rd in the nation. Pretty damn impressive, and the fact that he beat a full auto was even more impressive. They may be slower to reload, but any weapon will be better than NO WEAPON.
McLuvin on 20 Jun 2012 at 8:35 am #
Hangman, if you have to make a longer shot you’ll pull your scope out? What does that even mean? You’ll keep it in your pack and mount it if you need it? I hope you have a high quality, QR mount. Considering your fondness for cheap optics I doubt you’ll spend $150+ on a good mount.
If they are close enough to use your shotgun you are bolting? What if there’s no way out and you have to fight? You are now cornered with a weapon that can’t be aimed well. Haven’t we discussed “disabling” shots here before? They are nothing but a waste of ammo.
Wheelgunner, there are opinions and then there are cold hard facts. I’m only listing the factual limitations of certain types of weapons. Of course I’m not going to Rambo every zombie, but you can bet I’ll have the best tools available to protect myself and I’ll know how to use them to their full benefit.
The cowboy kid was on American Guns not Sons of Guns. He was a quick shooter for sure. However, he would have been beat by a skilled shooter with a semi or full auto. Those guys have proven on several episodes that they are not skilled shooters so beating them is hardly an accomplishment.
As good as the kid is, he would probably need to completely change his style for a zombie outbreak. CAS emphasizes pure speed on really big and really close targets. Headshots are a whole different ballgame.
Docwade on 20 Jun 2012 at 9:23 am #
I just watched that episode. Now, I’m not arguing that the kid isn’t fast..or that everything on TV is real, because it IS! But there is a really short two,second slow motion scene just as they start. The kid has 3 cases in the air before John pulls the trigger on that mac10…I call shenanigans.
Angryvikingman on 20 Jun 2012 at 10:34 am #
McLuvin, lets see some of your shooting handiwork. I post links to mine from time to time. Since you’re calling people out, lets see you put your “money where your mouth is.” A dated target, with a quarter to show scale, and your screen name on it. I’ll take a picture, but video would be even better.
McLuvin on 20 Jun 2012 at 10:47 am #
I don’t have any videos, but this should suffice.
I’m at the top of the big section.
[IMG]http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af317/tsteele1014/b7c7b686.jpg[/IMG]
This isn’t an up to date picture, but here are some of my awards from tactical handgun and 3-gun competitions.
[IMG]http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af317/tsteele1014/e9332810.jpg[/IMG]
Docwade on 20 Jun 2012 at 10:55 am #
They can’t do the image here, do a link from photobucket.
Angryvikingman on 20 Jun 2012 at 11:06 am #
LOL, I guess that’ll do McLuvin. Congrats btw. You stay up there in Ohio and take all the trophies up there. I’ll try and win a few down here in TN.
McLuvin on 20 Jun 2012 at 11:38 am #
Thanks Doc.
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af317/tsteele1014/share/9b08245c.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af317/tsteele1014/share/500f5925.jpg
Hopefully these work.
Thanks Viking. I’ll try to keep winning. I’ve been told that I’m quite competitive.
Angryvikingman on 20 Jun 2012 at 11:51 am #
I’m trying to get my contacts with CZ to send me out a 750 sniper for evaluation. We’ll see how that goes. LOL! I got one guy who works for their custom shop, and the forum manager on it.
McLuvin on 20 Jun 2012 at 8:29 pm #
The 750 is a nice setup. I prefer the HS stock on the 550 Varmint. I don’t care for thumbholes. It has the ability to use the big magazine from the 750 in a lighter overall package. Much better price for almost the same rifle. Don’t overlook the offering from Savage either. They will shoot right along with almost anything out there. The Accutrigger is probably the best factory trigger ever offered on a rifle.
Alex on 23 Jun 2012 at 8:17 am #
i live in the UK and use a slug gun for deer hunting – cant beet the massive punch they have
McLuvin on 23 Jun 2012 at 12:34 pm #
The massive punch that does so well against deer is just wasted on zombies. You don’t need to take their head off, just destroy the brain. While you likely have no choice, living in a restrictive country, the shotgun is a poor choice. Low capacity, heavy ammo, and extra recoil all make it less than ideal.
Docwade on 25 Jun 2012 at 5:11 pm #
I like 9mm carbines, but after running through a few steel plate shoots, just the weight savings with 22lr makes it the way to go.
McLuvin on 25 Jun 2012 at 7:18 pm #
Docwade is correct. No matter the perceived negatives of the .22lr, it’s light weight alone makes it a very good choice.
As far as I know Docwade has more experience getting through skulls than any of us, so if he says .22 will work, I’ll believe him.
Ben2112 on 26 Jun 2012 at 5:17 am #
The one thing that people keep forgetting about when it comes to scopes is batteries, especially red dots. Batteries, especially specialty ones, will be hard to acquire.
Rifles – Calibers – Keep in mind which cartridge will be the most plentiful. Pretty much all LEOs and Military, at least here in the US, use either 5.56 NATO or 7.62 NATO. So I would choose a rifle that shoots either of those 2 calibers. Just because of ammo availability. Remember, a gun without ammo is called a club.
Pistol – Calibers – This one is kind of tricky. If you just go by military, then the 9MM is a perfect choice. But if you factor in LEOs, then it’s up in the air, for example, you have a group of cities that are together close. One dept might issue 9MM, while the neighboring town might have 40 S&W, and then another city might issue 45ACP. I am lucky enough to know that my city LEOs use 40 S&W as well as other city LEOs around me. So I am choosing the 40 S&W. And I know of a lot of other city LEOs around the US that carry 40 S&W.
22LR – Great plinking round, but not that great for shooting someone in the head unless they are close. When hitmen would use them, they would use the gun close range and at the back of the head where it meets the spine. They would get close and shot at an angle upward where it would enter the skull and then rattle around. But on that note, I have a 22 pistol that is a tack driver at 50 yards. So if I could hit in the eye, then it’s possible that I could end up killing it. But hitting it in the skull, it might crack the skull but I doubt it would penetrate at that distance. At 10 yards, yes, you probably could kill it in the head.
One last note – If there ever was a Zombie Apocalypse, escaping to safety would be my #1 concern. You will never demoralize zombies. They don’t care if their brain munching buddy gets killed. Just keep moving and surviving until you can find a place to hold up and meet up with other survivors. And always keep in mind that provisions and ammunition will end up being worth more then all the gold in Fort Knox. Besides fighting off zombies, you might end up fighting off other survivors to protect your family and you supplies.
Angryvikingman on 26 Jun 2012 at 4:06 pm #
@Ben2112
What you’re forgetting is that there are plenty of scopes and optics out there that don’t require batteries. Aside from that, there are also ones out there like the AimPoint that batteries have a constant on life of 2-3 years, and they come with an extra battery. Also, sights like the ones on the FN P90/PS90 have an optic that actually changes color in different environments. Black in high visibility, and orangish/red in low light.
You really need to learn to think outside the box. Not everything runs off of AAs and watch batteries.
McLuvin on 26 Jun 2012 at 5:26 pm #
Angry is absolutely correct. My Aimpoint ML3s have 50,000 hours of battery life at medium brightness. If I leave them on constantly, they will last almost six years. Even if the batteries are half gone at the outbreak and no replacements are available, I’d be very happy to have my Aimpoints for he first 3 years of a zompocalypse.
My Vortex Viper 1-4x has a normal crosshair that can be illuminated, but works fine with no batteries. I’ll use the illumination until it’s gone and then just use the black crosshair.
Docwade on 27 Jun 2012 at 12:28 pm #
Ben,
Your speaking outta your butt on 22lr. No one takes the time to try to push the muzzle of a 22 against the base of the skull where C1 connects trying to thread a bullet through the foremen magnum. There’s a lot of thin spots in the skull:
Straight on anterior to posterior shot: frontal sinus, fovea ethmoidalis, medial orbit
Lateral to posterolateral: mastoid barring history of ear infections
Lateral to anterolateral: temporal/sphenoid suture just superior to the posterior zygomatic buttress.
Posterior: skull tends to be relatively thick so your shot will need to be as perpendicular to the surface as possible
Angryvikingman on 27 Jun 2012 at 3:16 pm #
Took my 10/22 out today.
Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaiyCrgDcIk
Probably should have re-zeroed, but I didn’t feel like draging out a bunch of crap to strap the rifle down.
Alex on 28 Jun 2012 at 12:58 pm #
want to mention my .22 hornet. I have killed a fox at 400m using a scope however it did take almost a foot of elevation – just experience got me that.
Daninplano on 28 Jun 2012 at 1:25 pm #
First time poster, so go easy, folks.
My personal LRR is a Remington Model 770 .270. Light, efficient, accurate to 300 yards (considering windage). I’ve taken a number of medium-size wild game with it. It wasn’t overly expensive considering it came with a base-model scope and is what is considered a “starter gun”. I have put over 300 rounds down range with zero problem functionally. With proper maintenance it is one of those that will last a VERY long time. It’s very light and manageable, though the bolt action makes for slower firing rate.
I also maintain other weapons including shotguns, low velocity rifles (.22), and pistols but those are off topic here, in my opinion.
To the mods and Admins: Great site. Bookmarked and to be checked on a regular basis.
Docwade on 28 Jun 2012 at 8:47 pm #
Soooo, remind me why are we trying to make long distance head shots?
McLuvin on 28 Jun 2012 at 9:03 pm #
Because it makes them feel like real men!
And possibly because they didn’t think it through. Unless that high powered rifle is suppressed its going to draw the attention of anything in a few mile radius.
wheelgunner on 29 Jun 2012 at 1:03 am #
I vote 1 for stampeding over the half-rotten sob’s.
@McLuvin-I had a thought that I wanted to run by you. You normally shoot at a range, or some other place with known distances, yes?
Angryvikingman on 29 Jun 2012 at 2:30 am #
I do have a suppressor for my 22, however, my 10/22 barrel hasn’t been threaded yet.
McLuvin on 29 Jun 2012 at 9:44 am #
Wheelgunner- I don’t normally shoot at a static range. 99% of my shooting is in competitions. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve shot paper in the last year. During competition the targets are usually unknown, but we rarely shoot past 200.
McLuvin on 29 Jun 2012 at 9:46 am #
Viking- I know you have a .22 can. I think Docwade was talking about long range rifles.
Alex on 29 Jun 2012 at 2:17 pm #
About sound, .22 a very quiet by rifle standards and in an urban, build up
area the sound should be muffled – not that that is much comfort. Believe me when i say this but what works as a great silencer is one of those cheap plastic drinks bottle you get coke in. Then you tape it on to the end of the barrel through the top hole and cut out a nice big hole at the base.
It works kinda!
course your gonna look like complete tool walking round Z city with a bottle taped onto your gun but if you don’t have a suppressor or your in a tight spot with zombies it could save you.
Alex on 30 Jun 2012 at 1:08 pm #
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyU1l5KgqA4&feature=related
watch this YouTube video
McLuvin on 30 Jun 2012 at 2:14 pm #
I don’t give much credit to anyone who says “22mm”, but the guy doing the shooting seemed ok. The skull analog reacted the exact same way a real skull should. .22lr would be a great zombie defense round.
Angryvikingman on 30 Jun 2012 at 9:51 pm #
As far as a bottle silencer, you want to shoot the first hole in it, not cut one.
McLuvin on 30 Jun 2012 at 10:38 pm #
I would agree with Viking, if I were going to commit a felony, I’d shoot the hole in. You want it as close to bullet diameter as possible and perfectly concentric with the muzzle. Any bigger and it let’s too much gas escape ahead of the bullet. A suppressor of this type will usually only work for a few rounds(poorly).
Semper Cogitant on 01 Jul 2012 at 4:38 pm #
These are mostly because they are what I have handy.
Long range: Remington 700P in .308. Shooting zombies at long range would not be something I’d want to do much of unless I was in a very secure place or ready to move right away as the sound might bring more trouble than what killing one zombie would be worth.
Closer in work: AR-15 in 5.56 with a 16 inch barrel. I’d like one with a shorter barrel for indoor use, but not in this state.
I’m looking into suppressed weapons now that you can legally use them in my state. They law used to be that we could own them but it was a crime to use them, but that’s been fixed. I’ll definitely be getting some sort of suppressed .22, and if money allows I might get a integrally suppressed upper in a pistol caliber.
Eric on 06 Jul 2012 at 10:02 am #
Well, there sure are alot of posts about 1K yard headshots and such. Not going to happen. Hard enough on a rest, try that offhand or in a “hasty” supported situation and multiple moving targets. 47-70? 300 Nitro? Yeah, right. Try that for more than a couple of dozen shots. And the ballistics are crap. Energy at distance is good, but recoil is a MAJOR bitch and bullet drop sucks.
There is a reason that SWAT snipers average shots are 100 yds or less. Marine scout snipers practice out to 500, but don’t take combat shots farther than 250. Moving targets, 100. And in each case they’re going for center of mass shots. .308 or .300 WSM are favorites, with .50 BMG for long range shots (record is 1.2 MILES, though COM shot) but you’re not going to do volume for any of them. Also, bolt action is not going to help when the distance closes.
There’s also a reason that tactical teams use .223/5.56 (M4), both US and Russian derivatives (AK-74). Put on an ACOG or any reflex red dot and you’ve got a package that will hit out to 200 yds as the .223 shoots very flat out to there. Zero’d for 100, it’ll hit the same zero at 200. And you can shoot either one all day long without significant degradation of accuracy due to low recoil. There are good hollow points out there that will leave a hole the size of a quarter on exit. And you can easily carry alot of ammo. A 100rd drum onboard, with say 10 30 rd mags giving you 400 rds on tap.
Wheelguns? Seriously? Even with speedloaders, it takes way too long. They’re only good for a backup roll. Single actions are NOT going to cut it, way too slow. And most of them are designed for single round loading. Might as well save the time and put one in your noggin.
Me? I’ll take an H&K Mark23 USP in .45 cal with a Trijicon RMR and suppressor attached, using 25rd “joysticks” from the H&K UMP (compatible to the USP). Headshots out to 50 yards in either case all day long. Need to get the sights replaced so you can co-witness iron within the glass rectangle in case of batter failure.
So, a 20″ M16A2 with a Harris bipod and 100 rd drum as long range; and M4 with a good 10 30 rd mags on me + 2 in the weapon (one inverted) and an H&K M23 with Trijicon RMR and 25rd
BTW, you can’t completely suppress a 22 unless you’re using snap caps. The round is supersonic (anything over 1024 FPS or so is) so even if the bang is suppressed, the round will break the so9und barrier. Snap caps are good for varmints, but will not work on people outside of bad-breath distance.
Eric on 06 Jul 2012 at 10:19 am #
Oh, and besides the main weapons, I’d have a Glock 30 (suppressed) with standard night sights in a Galco Miami II; a Cold Steel Jungle machete inverted a-la “Book of Eli” in my Web harness; CS 9″ Trail Master Bowie on the Web belt; CS SRK hanging inverted off the front Web harness; and a CS Tiger Claw inverted from the Galco shoulder holster.
Total weight, like 12 pounds. Add another 10 for ammo and such; M4 is about the same, slung; match grade AR15 is more like 15 with the drum. All doable as standard infantry combat load out (without pack) is around 40 lbs.
Wabid Wabit on 06 Jul 2012 at 12:49 pm #
I really enjoy my Benelli R1 .338, I use it for Elk but Zombies would work, great range and for a .338 recoil is like a 22, sad thing is I only have 3 shots then reload, and the rounds are not cheap so I really dont do much target practice with it, my other baby is the Marlin Model MXLR which I bought at a yard sale, Yuppies had it from a death in the family and had no idea what they had – 150.00 for 800.00 gun – LOL
Angryvikingman on 06 Jul 2012 at 7:35 pm #
@Eric
I’m looking at a package of “Subsonic” CCI 22lr rounds sitting on my desk right now. They’re rated at 1050 fps 40 grain. When I shoot them out of my rifle, all I can hear is the action clicking. Soooo yeah, you don’t just need the primer/eley fire rounds, or as you called them, “snap caps”. I promise you, they’ll kill a person.
McLuvin on 06 Jul 2012 at 8:20 pm #
Yay, more posts to tear apart!
Eric- if you had ever shot a MK23, you would realize that it is an oversized marketing ploy of a handgun. If you really want a suppressed HK in .45, the USP tactical is a better choice for several reasons. Obviously you have never shot a UMP either. The magazines are not compatible with the MK23. You would end up with a useless gun/magazine combo to bludgeon zombies with. We have discussed why a .45 is unnecessary many times so I won’t get into that now. You’re sniping numbers are way off. Marine scout snipers train well past 500. I think you are confusing standard marine rifle training with sniper training. The common sniper round is .300 Win. Mag. not WSM. The WSM is a modern hunting round. A 20″ M16 is not a precision weapon by any means. You would be much better off with a SASS or a bolt gun for long range. You’re estimate of 40lbs. seams pretty low for 2 rifles, 2 handguns, optics, a bunch of ammo, 4 knives, web gear, etc. You are also 100% wrong about .22. There are literally dozens of sub-sonic .22lr rounds available. You obviously don’t know what a “snap cap” is. Just for future reference a snap cap is an inert shell for dry firing your weapon. A short .22 caliber cartridge is a CB cap.
Wabit- Really! You’re R1 recoils like a .22? A little hyperbole there, me thinks. Both of your guns are poor choices for zombies. You need capacity, precision, and light weight for a zombie gun. You are missing 2/3 and 3/3 of the equation respectively. Just because it’s a great elk gun doesn’t mean it’s a good zombie gun.
Docwade on 07 Jul 2012 at 9:27 am #
Ouch!
wheelgunner on 08 Jul 2012 at 2:12 am #
@Eric-Also, since you know SO much about revolvers, most of the ones I have mentioned are not speed loader compatible.
And seriously, I don’t know how much COD you play, but a pistol is a backup weapon you idiot.
Did anybody else notice that he didn’t quote one instance of owning, or even firing a firearm? Just dropped a bunch of name brands and some easy to find internet stats?
@McLuvin for Wabit-at least he will be eating elk when the SHTF?
McLuvin on 08 Jul 2012 at 10:06 am #
Mmm….elk. Yummy!
Docwade on 08 Jul 2012 at 7:34 pm #
Are posts still updating? I’ve tried and don’t see the new post.
Docwade on 08 Jul 2012 at 7:45 pm #
I must admit, that loadout seemed a bit light.
DrMnenonic on 08 Jul 2012 at 7:57 pm #
Didn’t have time to read through all the above. I have lever guns and like the idea of reloading on the fly and ditto for shotguns… but seriously people, there’s a reason that magazine and belt fed weapons are the ONLY main armaments of armies since the late 40′s. You cannot ever keep shooting better than you can with high cap magazines or belts. Since I’m pretty sure nobody here is going to get a belt fed weapon, your only consideration here should be which high cap mag rifles and hand guns you want. Period. .223 is a decent round against man-sized animals and since you can use hollow points (no pesky Geneva rules in Zombieland) you just increased the energy into the target by 50%. There are 90-100 round magazines for the AR platform but they are heavy and expensive. You can piggy back 30 round mags together, and 4pairs = the lightest way to carry 240 rounds of high power ammo that’s ready to go at all times.
The AK is good too. A little heavier than the AR bullet for bullet, but same idea and a bit stronger round.
If you’re a world class athlete, get a magazine fed .308 or Garand with 30-40 magazine clips…
But seriously people, ignoring 60 years of military preference is fantasy land.
As for handguns… this is not a concealed carry, hope that 7 rounds is all I need until the authorities arrive situation. A standard 1911 should be so far down your list, as to not be on your list.
Nothing wrong with .45acp, but if you don’t have several double stack magazines (holding at least 14 rounds each) … again, you just lost a very high stakes game.
9mm is OK as a backup, but.40 is better. And if you are on a scavenging trip, you should always have TWO fully loaded pistols with you with several extra magazines. Rigs to do this are easy to find/make.
Of course, what you should really do is get a stryker vehicle with a chain gun, head for the mountains and build a bunker out of 18″ thick logs, but if you’re asking which guns to use when you need a gun… highest capacity with fastest reload and suppressed are all you need to know in Zombie land….
McLuvin on 08 Jul 2012 at 8:12 pm #
I’m pretty sure Viking hasn’t put a new thread up yet Doc. Unless my iPad isn’t showing it either.
wheelgunner on 08 Jul 2012 at 9:12 pm #
Nor my computer. No new threads here.
Angryvikingman on 08 Jul 2012 at 10:00 pm #
No, not yet. Sorry, I kinda didn’t have time to hunt down all the info I needed for the article I wanted to write, so I elected to delay posting so I could do proper research.
Docwade on 08 Jul 2012 at 11:20 pm #
@DrMnemonic
I have a fondness for my beltfeds. Of course they are only semi’s, but I have 3 rpd’s, one pkm, one M53, and a SG43. Excellent for defending a fixed position, not so for mobility.
DrMnenonic on 09 Jul 2012 at 10:45 am #
I’ll admit, I know very little about belt fed guns in the civilian aftermarket, but I guess its not that unreasonable. For just plain lead in the air from a fixed position, there are always those kits to string two rifles together. Lol…
Castle83 on 09 Jul 2012 at 2:24 pm #
AR15 platform all the way. Decent range, good scavenging potential for both .556/.223 (I have a .556 barrel so I can shoot either) as well as the ability to mod it for virtually any situation. Of course I have 9 rifles, 2 shotguns, and 6 handguns so I have a few to choose from.
I’m a big believer in going with what your comfortable with though. The more comfortable you are with the weapon, the better you will perform in a stressful combat situation, whether it be cowboy guns or more of a modern standard.
DrMnenonic on 09 Jul 2012 at 6:59 pm #
Couldn’t agree more about “comfort,” and if regular training hasn’t been mentioned/emphasized, well it just was.
Zombie deterrence and control for raiding/scavenging parties, however, does have to be based on the idea that you could and even will get swarmed, so light to carry with high cap and fast reload do have to be the determining factors IMAO.
Castle83 on 09 Jul 2012 at 7:33 pm #
Agreed. High capacity and fast reload would be better suited for raiding and scavenging parties. I don’t think older style, low capacity, slow reloading weapons would compare in a zombie situation personally.
I was mearly paying respect to people who are good with those types of weapons and do not want to change (*cough wheelgunner *cough).
Don’t get my wrong, I love my M1, 1903 Springfield, and 30-30 lever, I just don’t think they can compare to my AR/Sig combo.
McLuvin on 09 Jul 2012 at 9:10 pm #
Familiarity is obviously a good thing, but not necessary for a real shooter. Anyone who is truly skilled with a levergun and single action should be able to pick up an AR and semi-auto almost instantly. The basic act of shooting is the same with almost all guns and manipulation is fairly obvious with all but a few.
Castle83 on 09 Jul 2012 at 9:40 pm #
@Mccluvin I agree, however some people will not change no matter how many times you say it. Might as well use their skills where they are comfortable. I would take a skilled shooter with any gun against an unskilled shooter with top of the line military hardware any day.
McLuvin on 09 Jul 2012 at 10:08 pm #
I’d leave the unskilled shooter to fend for himself and tell the skilled shooter to man the fuck up and take a real gun.
McLuvin on 09 Jul 2012 at 10:29 pm #
My friends all know that there are two classes of people in a zombie apocalypse. Shooters and loaders.
Luckily many of my friends are very skilled shooters. Even the poor shooters in my group are better than the average internet expert. When every shot counts I only want the best shooters using the ammo.
Castle83 on 09 Jul 2012 at 10:37 pm #
Well, there is always base support :)
wheelgunner on 10 Jul 2012 at 2:24 am #
*cough cough* I heard that. I like that bit about loaders and shooters.
wheelgunner on 10 Jul 2012 at 2:30 am #
I was startled to find that of ten friends that I asked, I am the only one who would not immediately choose a shotgun as a primary weapon for any survival scenario. I did not realize that the bias was that one sighted. Even buddies that own assault weapons, or long distance rifles, all chose a 12 gauge, and no less than seven of them preferred a double barrel to any other type.
I think I may just hide in the woods when the SHTF.
McLuvin on 10 Jul 2012 at 7:59 am #
You are screwed if you need to count on those friends. It just goes to show that there is a vast difference between gun owners and shooters. Real shooters, who understand their guns and know how to use them, wouldn’t be swayed by Hollywood towards an inferior weapon. Just because it was in zombieland doesn’t mean it is a viable option. If that were the case we’d all have MP7s to spray up in the air.
Angryvikingman on 10 Jul 2012 at 8:23 am #
As far as a shotgun goes, IF you know how to combat load a pump shotgun, then you can really pump out some rounds with those. I need to buy some shotshell snapcaps and practice some more.
I still think a mag fed shotgun is the BEST shotgun, but when its out, you can’t combat load it one shell at a time.
BUT, BUT, BUT, a shotgun is still a backup weapon unless you have a whole squad of people using them in a concerted effort to wedge through a line of zombies or something to that effect.
Do I need to do another shotgun article? I think I just might…
Docwade on 10 Jul 2012 at 10:10 am #
At the distances that come to mind for shotgun use, and taking into account the inherent limitations of the weapon (ie. limited ammo, limited range for its purpose, reloading time vs rounds used vs effectiveness), you would still be better served by a rifle (pistol caliber or rifle). In close, the pattern is not going to adequately open up, and out too far, it’s not accurate enough for the task, which I assume is laying down a lot of fire to clear a path. Drums blah blah, the ammo is a huge space occupier. For ever 12 gauge round, you could carry at least 3 .223, 6 9mm, 4 45acp, nearly 50 22lr.
Now don’t get me wrong, I love shotguns. So much so, that I have built 4 saiga12′s and still have two that I use for 3 gun. They are awesome little magwell conversions. I would still run a 9mm carbine for weight and size.
Docwade on 10 Jul 2012 at 10:12 am #
And before anyone jumps on my range comment regarding the 12 gauge, I know slugs go far, but now your boom stick is back to a single projectile per shot, so why not use a rifle.
McLuvin on 10 Jul 2012 at 11:00 am #
Well said, Doc!
Shotguns are base defense only in my book.
Docwade on 10 Jul 2012 at 11:29 am #
@Angry
Yes, please. A shotgun topic would be great discussion material!
Red Wulf on 10 Jul 2012 at 5:03 pm #
I will stick with my long bow, throwing axes and swords. I’m a reny so i preffer weapons i wont run out of ammo for plus they are quiet.
Castle83 on 10 Jul 2012 at 6:54 pm #
While shotguns should be used primarily for base defense I think they find their nitch on assault and scanvenge teams.
I personally plan to have a 5 man assault team with one person rocking a 12 gauge. You could use the other 4 to shoot at range and have the shotgunner as backup in case the hordes get to close or if a zombie jumps out unexpected. (I like to plan for the worst)
Yes I know most of you have a hard on for military style rifles at range but I think having a safety net for close range would be benificial. Nothing quites says “get the fuck out of my face” like 00 Buck.
In a perfect world the shotgunner would have a back up weapon to augment the limitations of the shotgun. I would love to have a shotgunner with a back up FN P90 except for the fact that ammo for it is limited. Before you ask, yes I have fired a P90 and they are stupidly accurate and easy to fire not to mention light weight. Like I said, to bad it is out of the picture do to the limited ammo availability. Perhaps another weapon to augment a shotgunner. Thoughts?
McLuvin on 10 Jul 2012 at 7:42 pm #
The shotgun is very devastating at close range and could be effective as one member of a scouting/scavenging team. However, I wouldn’t want to be the one stuck with it. It’s main drawback is the size/weight of its ammo. The gun, and you, can’t carry a very big supply. The idea of carrying a second long gun has little merit as it becomes cumbersome and complicated.
McLuvin on 10 Jul 2012 at 7:43 pm #
Red Wulf- good luck with that.
Castle83 on 10 Jul 2012 at 7:52 pm #
@Mcluvin I wouldn’t want to be that member of a squad either but it would help with security. Thats why I referenced a submachine gun. while ranged is limited, accuracy and ammunition is not (at least at close range) perhaps an MP5 if I could get my hands on one in my area that is. 9mm would be easy to come by and it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to carry the loadout.
Castle83 on 10 Jul 2012 at 8:00 pm #
P.S at Red Wulf. I do laugh at the idea of a complete bow/melee loadout. While the silence of a bow has merit, relying completly on it is a fallacy. I would not mind having a member of my team with one, but if you encounter a horde you will be…up the creek. Most people put too much merit in medival weapons as a zomibie deterant. Yes a sword does not need ammunition it is hardly a match for a decent firearm.
McLuvin on 10 Jul 2012 at 9:41 pm #
I like the argument that bows don’t run out of ammo. I don’t know an archer(modern or vintage) that doesn’t lose/break arrows. I hope you have the skillset, equipment, and time to craft a never ending arrow supply.
The sword is not a good weapon for most people. Without extensive training and practice you are very likely to hurt yourself with it. Even with training and practice it has serious drawbacks. It requires the enemy to be way too close. This is an enemy that classically forms “hordes”. The sword also requires tremendous stamina to use for any length of time. It would only have value as a last ditch weapon or a way to deal with the occasional lone straggler. In that case I’d rather have a crowbar or haligan tool. They are useful in other ways than dressing up your belt. I would even prefer a nice axe handle to a sword.
Angryvikingman on 10 Jul 2012 at 10:34 pm #
shotgun topic up.
DrMnenonic on 11 Jul 2012 at 9:45 am #
@mcluvin, Harbor Freight sells a nice hatchet sized fireman’s axe for $25. ie- it has a nice sharp, strong, 4″ spike opposite the chopping blade. There are also many tomahawks on the market.
Now let me put this bow thing to rest, Having been a bow hunter in AZ my whole life I have considered the possibility of longbows… the problem again becomes SWARMS of zombies. Arrows are NOT unlimited, and they are rather heavy in volume.
Even an ideal set up, where you have a good bow with a short-ish draw and matched arrows on a bow mounted quiver and a sling mounted one, at BEST, you can carry 8 on the bow and 20-ish in the sling quiver.
You can only have collapsing broad heads in the sling-quiver, and even then, when its full, you’ll pull one or two extra arrows out in a speed draw situation.
The idea you will use field points and get head shots every time is cute, but crazy.
As a kid, we used to hunt rabbits and rattle snakes with field points, and even in animals weighing 5-10 pounds, a body hit with a field point is rarely an instant kill. Lung and heart shots are also not instant kills with field points or even broadheads. Field points tend to seal their wounds… I can only imagine how many pin-cushion zombies you’ll have to finish off with your side arm. You will run out of arrows faster than you think and chasing after misses that skip 20-80 meters off in the distance = more potential zombie encounters among the bodies/brush that arrows tend to get lodged in.
And don’t even mention crossbows… I don’t care how awesome you or they are, reload time plus target acquisition will never exceed 5-6 shots a minute… and you could still miss.
McLuvin on 11 Jul 2012 at 10:31 am #
DrMnemonic- That is an accurate depiction of archery’s shortcomings.
I’m not a fan of axes or hatchets as weapons. Balance is bad and they take too much energy to wield. The spike has too much chance of sticking to be worthwhile. A hatchet or tomohawk can be useful for other things and can definitely be used as a weapon. I’d just save them for the single zombies or at most very small groups.
wheelgunner on 11 Jul 2012 at 6:13 pm #
I, on the other hand, love axes, and I have been getting used to having to rehaft them all the time, because Louisiana hates all things. I prefer the a two handed bearded ax, for all around use. I also prefer the theory of make a new door if you can’t get out the one you came in through.
The melee trick, throughout history, is to break groups down into singular opponents, and take them out one at a time. If you can do that, the problem becomes exponentially easier to manage, and should leave you exit space as required. It’s just like a gun, tactics and strategies gents, tactics and strategies.
As for bows, I like them, and am trying to get better, but I can carry twice the loadout for them than that because I have to use a traditional belt quiver. The over-the-shoulder carry dips too far back when I reach for an arrow, and I can never get ahold of one. I’m wanting to put a small forge together and start producing war heads for my arrows. I have had terrible results with broadheads, and swore off of them for general use.
wheelgunner on 11 Jul 2012 at 6:16 pm #
I’m also a firm hater of using tools as weapons. There are reasons peasants remained peasants for as long as they did.
McLuvin on 11 Jul 2012 at 8:43 pm #
Wheelgunner- the strategy to single out one opponent during a melee battle only worked because you had hundreds of like minded allies. If you are alone, and have 10-20 zombies piling in on you. Singling them out isn’t an option. They won’t be like Hollywood fighters that surround you and charge in one at a time. They will swarm you and eat your face.
The peasants you speak of remained peasants because they were using tools to fight a better equipped, professional military force. If you are facing a weaponless, shambling enemy those tools are the most advanced weapon on the battlefield. Against single zombies or small groups, a hammer could be all the advantage you need.
DrMnemonic on 11 Jul 2012 at 10:53 pm #
Not trying to gang up on wheelgunner… and sorry for the again, longish post…
But twice the loadout? Are you saying you will carry 40+ arrows around on belt quivers? Seriously? Let’s say you can make 40-50 small two bladed broadheads, and let’s say you can pack 20-25 arrows that are more than 3/4 of a meter long into a belt quiver (doubtful) and now you have TWO of them, one at each hip. The fletchings alone are going to represent a “bunch” at your waist that is 6-7″ across, on each side! They stick out as big as a football.
So far so good? But this isn’t the woods, and you aren’t tracking deer.. you are in a field, with uneven ground… and you are running away from a zombie horde. Now what? You have two bundles of sticks, seven inches wide rattling at your hips. The arrows that you tied down to not fall out, you cannot use, and the ones you didn’t tie down are shaking loose…
Don’t get me wrong. I’ve seen some sexy belt quivers, and even horse harnesses… but NONE of them hold 20 field tipped arrows much less with even small broadheads
And then there is the kill factor. Except in the movies, archers have never been a hand to hand warrior class. The only good use for archers when they WERE on the battlefield (Native Americans notwithstanding because they adopted guns faster than you can say Chiricahua) was when you had dozens of them and could put hundreds if not thousands of arrows in the air. And even then, they were not even intended to be immediate kill shots ulness you got lucky and hit the head or heart.
Arrows just don’t kill fast enough. Period. Even with BIG broadheads. Deer and javalina have similar body size and weight to a man. It takes perfect heart/lung shots with the biggest broadheads with 4 blades to eveb begin to “drop them” near where they are hit. It just gets worse the smaller tip you use, but the bigger tip you use, you cannot carry them AND have them “at hand” at all times in large quantities. It’s a fantasy.
You need to kill zombies quickly if they are swarming you, and again, I love bows. I shoot them and think they are sexy and powerful. Fred Bear hunted just about everything including elephants with 65-75 pound recurve bow… but … he wasn’t fighting swarms of man-sized animals that probably ignore pain and don’t go down unless you penetrate their motor cortex, cut their brainstem, sever the aorta, or heart chambers, or take out BOTH lungs… and I just don’t see you doing that with a bunch of small arrows that you have to lug around rattling at your sides as you hustle towards your friends who hopefully have several hundreds rounds of small arms fire backing you up.
With a bow, you simply will NOT pull your weight on a raiding party.
DrMnemonic on 12 Jul 2012 at 4:25 pm #
One very interesting concept that totally ruins the stealth of a bow, but increases the lethality… if you could fashion dozens of these and disposable arrows… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJauOO_eBMs
wheelgunner on 13 Jul 2012 at 12:09 am #
Um…I shoot 31″ arrows with my bows, not 27′s or whatever. I usually use a cloth quiver, and I am still working out design features that I want, but they do hold a lot of arrows, tightly enough not to fall out. And so what, I don’t mind having a giant bundle of shafts if it gets the job done. I’m sure that there will be times when I have chosen to carry a bow, for whatever reason(s), and I just want to have the best tools for the job at hand.
I also specified war heads. I want heads that can penetrate armor, as in steel panels, or at least some that may survive lone enough to be used more than once. A zombie versus armor, armor piercing will penetrate both. Modern broadheads do not do that.
I can track some, and can only get better if I have to.
DrMnenonic on 14 Jul 2012 at 9:13 pm #
Longer arrows are WORSE. You do realize that the only reason to choose a recurve or longbow over a compound bow is SPEED of draw, and longer arrows lengthen draw time and make it HARDER to hold aim on a long bow
What armor are you penetrating? You’re hunting large numbers of sickly humans. This isn’t counter strike. And it doesn’t matter how “tough” your arrows are, you will loose them, they will fly 50 yards off, they will lodge in trees ESPECIALLY if they penetrate well.
I’ve bent and broken carbon extreme arrows on hard dirt/rocks…
They will bend and break and they will get lost. They will not kill reliably and they will slow you down when you carry large numbers of them.
Bottom line, they will NOT get the job done. You’re not thinking it through, but good luck.
McLuvin on 14 Jul 2012 at 9:30 pm #
I’m glad there is finally someone else on here that uses common sense and isn’t afraid to call people stupid.
There are precious few of us.
wheelgunner on 15 Jul 2012 at 10:16 am #
Okay then. I was completely unaware that there were reasons for owning all the bows that I have. Thank you so much for enlightening me! I cannot believe that I have gone this long not knowing that I chose my bows for speed of draw and shorter hold time…? What?
I never so much as insinuated that I would not lose arrows, that crappy carbon arrows have anything resembling an ability to withstand usage, or that any of those things will ultimately bother me in the slightest.
Arrows break, bend, ricochet, get lost, get stuck, lose fletching, bend fletching, mushroom, break nocks, shoot off nocks, lose the attachment inserts, and a couple of dozen other things. I have some experience with archery. Thus, I like having more arrows to less, and specialty ammunition for different targets.
wheelgunner on 15 Jul 2012 at 10:23 am #
I have not specified shafting, distance to target, what targets I will be after, what other equipment I will have with me, what, if any, party members will have, or what situations I would absolutely not carry a bow.
From the way these posts have been going, am I to understand that you will always have and carry one specific loadout for the rest of your natural born lives?
DrMnenonic on 15 Jul 2012 at 12:57 pm #
I meant no disrespect. But unless you TEACH us why we are wrong, you’re kind of making stuff up.
So…Specify!
Fiberglass arrows?
If I’m not mistaken, the task here is to discuss what’s good for surviving the zombie apocalypse. I’m sure Ted Nugent (who I admire in almost every possible way) has a place we can talk about the natural awesomeness of Archery and bow hunting. Bass Pro Shops has much of Fred Bear’s hunting footage digitized. All good stuff, all totally inferior to the task which we are discussing.
I’ll concede that if you’re a lone operator and take AT MOST two dozen arrows with you and you NEVER encounter more than 3-4 zombies at a time, the bow has some obvious advantages…
BUT.
You cannot guarantee that last variable. So relying on the bow as your primary defense in any zombie situation = being unprepared.
But please, enlighten us. What arrows? What tips? How do they attach? What fletch? How much do the arrows weigh? What do your quivers look like? Can you always draw arrows from them quickly without others falling out? What’s your fire rate? What’s your accuracy at that rate? Do your arrows always = 1 shot 1 kill? If not how often does one zombie require 2-3 or more arrows to go down? Can you run with your “load out”? In an area with limited cover, what happens when you encounter a fast moving group of 20? 30? 50?
Teach us how your method is superior or at least what its real advantages are. This is an educational forum as much as anything else.
McLuvin on 15 Jul 2012 at 5:29 pm #
I was mostly countering the argument that bows don’t run out of ammo. If you can carry 50 arrows with you(which is a bunch), you are equipped to handle single zombies or very small groups at close range. If you run into more than 5-6 zombies you would be hard pressed to kill them all before they got to you. I can engage many more zombies at longer range with my suppresses 10/22. It makes about the same amount of noise as your bow and I can carry 1000 rounds easily.
wheelgunner on 15 Jul 2012 at 5:54 pm #
I never said that they don’t run out of ammo. But, arrow shafts are a far more renewable resource than bullets. I mean they literally grow up out of the ground. They do take some serious preparation, but I reckon that I need some sort of hobby after z-day.
Honestly, I am primarily planning to use a bow to feed me and mine, seeing as it is quite and bullets aren’t going to magically start making themselves and there will be a better place for using them.
I am currently drying a couple different types of shafting that my grandfather pointed out to me that he used as a kid. I have no clue what they are called, except that one of them is cane. I’m still experimenting and trying to find a good point for them, and intend to try out both over the shaft fastening heads and sinew binding heads into a split shaft. I’m having trouble finding fletching that I like, and it’s really slowing me down. Haven’t had time to find something delicious to kill and take it’s.
I cannot promise one shot one kill with anything. I won’t know until I have it to do. But everyone misses, and I am certainly no exception to the rule. I can run with my loadout, and my arrows usually come out fast enough to suit me. If I encounter a group, I’ll do my best to single off targets or run for better cover.
Reaver on 16 Jul 2012 at 2:18 am #
this is going to sound a bit retarded, but have you guys seen the weapons setup for the third assassin’s creed?If you were going to use a bow, going that route seems a good idea, but with a modern high capacity pistol.
Reaver on 16 Jul 2012 at 2:20 am #
also, back on topic, I’m looking at the Springfield M1A SOCOM variants.
wheelgunner on 16 Jul 2012 at 6:46 am #
Sweet. I was going to pick one up, but at least around here, the price went from $1200 for the socom to $1900 for the basic rifle. Still want to get my hands on one though.
Do you have a preference?
wheelgunner on 16 Jul 2012 at 6:48 am #
http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14-Rifles.aspx
I stumbled across this doing research on something. Always nice to have options.
McLuvin on 16 Jul 2012 at 9:12 am #
If you want a precision .308 semi, this is a nicer setup.
http://www.lwrci.com/p-120-repr.aspx
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=296644172
The M1A is a nice rifle if you like some vintage flair, but it doesn’t have the accuracy potential of the AR platform. It also isn’t nearly as user friendly.
Castle83 on 16 Jul 2012 at 1:09 pm #
So I just got the remainder of my inheritance from my grandfather. 2 prestine rifles a Springfield 1903 30-6 and a M1 along with 7 or so more handguns bringing my total to 10 rifles, 4 shotguns, and 15 handguns.
Bring it on zombies…
Reaver on 16 Jul 2012 at 3:42 pm #
the Socom 16, though the lack of a rail mount is a problem. the one I would like the most is the M21, but I’d have to have it modified to shorten the barrel to 16″. the small loss in bullet velocity seems worth making the weapon more manageable. and the M1A a gun that can fill all roles as necessary, from cqb to sniping.
McLuvin on 16 Jul 2012 at 4:05 pm #
To buy the M21 and cut the barrel back seems counterproductive. Why get the upgraded, long range version and then limit its range. Just get the cheaper SOCOM and be done.
Reaver on 16 Jul 2012 at 5:41 pm #
well perhaps you guys could give me some recommendations for this then. I want to modify the gun to have a body and stock similar to the EBR. the only differences would be the shorter barrel. anyone in particular best suited to do this?
McLuvin on 16 Jul 2012 at 6:10 pm #
Just buy a SOCOM and an EBR stock. You could get both for less than an M21.
Angryvikingman on 16 Jul 2012 at 9:11 pm #
Being one of the few people I know who’ve handled one of those Fulton Armory rifles, the stock makes it hard to use the iron sights. It’s pretty much just set up for some sort of optic. Don’t get me wrong, they’re awesome, they look awesome, and they shoot awesome. Just get a top rail and mount an optic. Oh yeah, and get lots of mags. They only hold 20 rounds.
wheelgunner on 16 Jul 2012 at 9:30 pm #
Most of mine hold five for god’s sakes. Twenty is a luxury I would hardly know how to handle.
wheelgunner on 16 Jul 2012 at 9:32 pm #
I still kind of want a M1 Carbine. The Fulton Armory ones have the sights that I like on them, and accessories available. But that price tag is pretty steep for one.
McLuvin on 16 Jul 2012 at 10:36 pm #
Wheelgunner- While I like the history and cool factor of the M1 carbine, it is basically a pistol caliber that is hard to find. Ammo is available, but not normally in real quantity or at a good price. You give up range, power, and accuracy to a standard AR. For zombies I want at least two of those things.
Reaver on 16 Jul 2012 at 11:04 pm #
apparently it’s absurdly easy to modify them to full auto, but thatmay be true for many guns. full auto is kind of a waste of ammo in any case however.
wheelgunner on 17 Jul 2012 at 12:04 am #
Mcluvin-I have handled a M1 Carbine before, and I really liked it. Currently, even Walmart is carrying ammo for it, and not badly priced.
Angryvikingman on 17 Jul 2012 at 8:41 am #
Unless they’re putting a different style rear aperture on the M1 carbine, they’re not adjustable, so you have to find the POI and use hold off to hit your intended target.
wheelgunner on 17 Jul 2012 at 10:59 am #
It’s a ratcheting peep sight as opposed to the L shape one with the two holes poked in it for fifty and one hundred yards. If not the best ever, it’s way better than the L sights, which historically, if I am not incorrect, where only made by one company, and not all that common to begin with.
wheelgunner on 21 Jul 2012 at 5:57 pm #
Comments on the Batman shooter?
McLuvin on 21 Jul 2012 at 8:02 pm #
He was an idiot!
Castle83 on 24 Jul 2012 at 9:56 pm #
Not an idiot, a complete degenerate piece of shit that gives good gun owners a bad name. Guys like that are the reason people fear people that like guns as a hobby.
wheelgunner on 31 Jul 2012 at 10:13 pm #
So, about those muzzleloaders. Low tech high tech way of keeping a gun when the world around you has fallen into the depths of hell.
Zombiekiller1318 on 07 Aug 2012 at 12:34 pm #
Colt M4 (6945), 10.5″ barrel for medium to short range with an Aimpoint red dot.
Stag Arms Model 1, 16″ barrel that I’m good with to 200 yards with iron sights.
I would love to pick up a long range rifle, preferably a Remington 700 in .308, but there’s other things I want/need first so if I can find one after z-day then I’ll pick it up for free:-D
McLuvin on 08 Aug 2012 at 8:15 pm #
@Zombiekiller
Why do you think a 10.5″ AR wouldn’t go 200 yards?
Why would you want a dot for close range, but iron sights for 200?
wheelgunner on 09 Aug 2012 at 1:10 am #
Maybe because he has taste? Haha. Just joshin’.
Have those things really got down to pistol length barrels?
Angryvikingman on 09 Aug 2012 at 1:11 am #
I’m pretty sure I saw one with a 7.5 inch barrel once.
wheelgunner on 09 Aug 2012 at 5:52 am #
They seriously call those rifles?
McLuvin on 09 Aug 2012 at 9:26 am #
If it has a stock it’s a rifle. My newest AR has a 5″ barrel, but it’s in 9mm.
As far as iron sights go, it’s not about preference or being macho, it’s about reality. At any range a red dot is faster and easier to use than iron sights. At distance a scope handily beats both. I know better than most how a tiny variation in sight alignment can throw a shot off at distance. A red dot takes the alignment issue out of the equation. At any decent distance a dot or sight is covering too much of the target to have any real precision. For that, a quality scope is the best choice. Magnification is your friend.
wheelgunner on 15 Aug 2012 at 11:02 pm #
That’s still ridiculous. You would have to have a scope on a barrel that tiny.
Angryvikingman on 16 Aug 2012 at 1:08 am #
Yeah, out past 300 yards, a red dot is useless. Even closer and it still covers more than a human sized target.
wheelgunner on 24 Aug 2012 at 4:42 am #
What about hunting after Z-Day? Do you think it’s still viable?
Alex on 26 Aug 2012 at 1:38 pm #
Sure wheelgunner!
unless animal become zombies as well….
wheelgunner on 01 Sep 2012 at 11:43 pm #
What about a .17 HMR? If a .22 LR can do it, why not a .17? It’s light weight, low recoil, has a lot more reach out and grab them, and is more versatile, especially for lower skilled shooters.
McLuvin on 02 Sep 2012 at 8:35 am #
17hmr doesn’t penetrate well. It is a nice varmint round, but it’s so lightweight I don’t know how it would do with skulls. Up close I’m sure it would be fine, but at any distance it just doesn’t carry much energy.
wheelgunner on 02 Sep 2012 at 6:24 pm #
I’ve seen them cut a crow or coon in two. That’s a lot of energy for my book. If it dumps the energy that well, it could make a big enough hole, even if it wouldn’t penetrate all that well. It’s one to experiment on.
TEOATTC on 12 Sep 2012 at 10:05 pm #
mossberg 702 22lr-$120…blazer ammo 525ct-$17 can easily carry 2000+rds never had a jam…good groupings when sighted in…will go through cow skulls at 50yds so why not zombies?
McLuvin on 15 Sep 2012 at 1:34 pm #
I’m not betting my life on a Mossberg Plinkster.
TEOATTC on 15 Sep 2012 at 8:02 pm #
I get it. I’ts not my main weapon either, i have an AK, but as far as weight and amount of rounds you can carry…it seems like a good, cheap choice for laying out some zombies, and I’m definitely having mine with me. Do you think it wouldnt go a skull? I think so…maybe not at 200yds., but coming towards you at under 100yds. I think it would do a pretty good job. What are some of your recommendations?
McLuvin on 15 Sep 2012 at 8:19 pm #
I have no problems with the .22 for zombies. I think it will penetrate a skull just fine. I just don’t care for that particular rifle. The ones I’ve handled were less than confidence inspiring. I’d get a 10/22.
TEOATTC on 16 Sep 2012 at 1:30 pm #
Yeah, my friend has a ruger and it is VERY nice. I’ll have to look into one. You had mentioned in another article about an axe handle being a good blunt force trama weapon, and i too agree it could do some great damage, but what about fiberglass? Much stronger than wood and a little more weight too.
McLuvin on 16 Sep 2012 at 4:57 pm #
A fiberglass axe handle would work just fine. I am also a big fan of the Cold Steel polymer baseball bat. Anything that improves durability is ok by me.
TEOATTC on 16 Sep 2012 at 5:38 pm #
I checked out some videos on Cold Steel, bat, African walking stick etc…badass…looks like they have some very good products, like you said durability. I think I would much rather have that polymer bat than wood or aluminum.
TEOATTC on 16 Sep 2012 at 6:34 pm #
Back to rifles…what kind of setup do you have as your main? I’ve got a WASR-10 mainly because of $$. Its been good and I’ve never had any problems with it. I had to do some basic setup because the sights were way off when I got, it but now I can get 10″-12″ groupings at 100yds. offhand with no scope, and 3-6″ at 50yds. Since I”m not expecting headshots at long distances I’m not sure if I should try and set it up with a scope.
I have a REM700 30.06 w/redfield 4-12×40 that I can get 4′groupings at 300yds., and 1″-11/2″ at closer range, but I dont think i could be lugging that thing around quickly. I hope I could take it with me, but it would be more for hunting, or the occasional clearing of a few zombies from an area. When I’m hunting I’ve never shot anything farther than 150yds., usually its around 100yds. or less.
I’m by no means an expert or competition marksman but of coarse I’m always trying to improve. What are your thoughts about scopes on an AK? worth it? I’ve got friends with ARs w/scopes that are very nice at around 200yds., but they are already more acurate than my AK.
McLuvin on 16 Sep 2012 at 8:05 pm #
The AK is never going to be a precision weapon. Since headshots will be the order of the day, I don’t think an AK would be a great choice. An optic makes aiming a little easier, but it can’t make the platform more accurate.
My main weapons will be .22s. I have a highly customized 10/22 and MKII that are suppressed. These will be what I use 99% of the time. I would have a suppressed 9mm AR that takes Glock mags and a suppressed Glock 17L as backup. Two long guns is never ideal, but both of mine are extremely lightweight so having one strapped on a pack is doable.
TEOATTC on 17 Sep 2012 at 1:45 pm #
No, not for precision, but technically I got it for any other form of disaster, economic collapse, social unrest, etc… In the event of a zombie outbreak I guess I’ll just have to make due with the tools at my disposal.
I was looking at the 10/22 and see there are many different models, carbine, target, tactical, etc…can all these models be customized with the plethora of aftermarket accesories? They all looked to me like the only difference was the stock, with the exception of the heavy barrel model and the take down model.
McLuvin on 17 Sep 2012 at 4:35 pm #
They all share the same action which is what you would add on to. get the cheapest one if you plan to replace most of it anyway. Even the basic carbine is an accurate reliable gun.
TEOATTC on 17 Sep 2012 at 7:07 pm #
Cool, thanks for the info.
TEOATTC on 19 Sep 2012 at 12:12 am #
What are your thoughts on aftermarket barrels?
McLuvin on 19 Sep 2012 at 7:44 am #
There are plenty of good aftermarket 10/22 barrels. The key is deciding what you want in your finished rifle. If you want a super accurate bench gun, any of the match grade bull barrels would be fine. These are really heavy though. If you want a lightweight and accurate rifle, but the factory look isn’t cool enough, get a carbon wrapped or aluminum shrouded bull barrel. These give you the profile, stiffness, and cooling benefits of a bull barrel without the weight. My personal choice is Tacticsl Solutions.
wheelgunner on 19 Sep 2012 at 9:56 pm #
Hell, they even make mods for 10/22′s that will take a couple of them and turn them into a .22 LR Gatling gun. If you want it, they probably make it for a Ruger. I run a Marlin when I run a .22. Nothing fancy, but an accurate workhorse.
TEOATTC on 19 Sep 2012 at 11:51 pm #
I’ve got a Marlin too. It’s my first gun, a Christmas gift when I was 10. Been going strong for 20+yrs. now, but it’s a single round bolt action, not so good at putting alot of lead downrange.
TEOATTC on 20 Sep 2012 at 10:50 pm #
What about optics? scope? red dot? I had a Tasco 3-9×40 for a while, it was ok,ended up giving it to a friend when I got a Redfield4-12×40. I wouldn’t want to go too cheap but I wouldn’t think I need a 4-12 on a .22, and I’ve never used a red dot.
McLuvin on 21 Sep 2012 at 5:49 am #
I have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x on my 10/22. I like some magnification on a .22. It can reach out enough that magnification can be usefulr for precision. I really like red dots(Aimpoint) on my ARs. They add speed over iron sights and make hits easier at distance.
wheelgunner on 21 Sep 2012 at 8:15 am #
Check out a Barska. http://www.opticsplanet.com . They are cheap, but really good scopes.
Angryvikingman on 21 Sep 2012 at 10:00 am #
I have a centerpoint 4-16×40 with a mil-dot reticle, and I LOVE that thing. Have one that rides on my 10/22 and one for my AR-15. I can eat up some soda cans out at 150+ yards. So thats like taking a headshot at around 200. What kills me is I shot a video of me doing that, and before I was rolling I shot one to be sure my scope was still on, and I popped it on the first shot. When I was filming, it took me 4 because the wind was blowing. Stupid wind.
McLuvin on 21 Sep 2012 at 7:31 pm #
Don’t buy a cheap shitty scope!!
Buy the best optic you can. If you cheap out you’ll never be happy and you’ll eventually upgrade anyway. A good scope will last forever and you can always move it to different weapons.
wheelgunner on 23 Sep 2012 at 7:59 am #
Good and expensive are not always synonymous. I’ve know people that have sold luepold and such scopes to buy one of those barskas. They are good scopes.
McLuvin on 23 Sep 2012 at 9:50 am #
Okay
wheelgunner on 24 Sep 2012 at 7:17 pm #
All that said, how about a long eye relief scout scope?
McLuvin on 24 Sep 2012 at 10:40 pm #
Don’t like long eye relief scopes at all! Having a magnifying optic that far away from your eye just gives you a tiny tube of view that is not as fast as a red dot or accurate as a regular scope. It’s a terrible compromise.
Brian on 27 Nov 2012 at 9:26 am #
Well, i’m good. I got a marlin Model 336 in 30-30, Ruger 10/22, J Stevens Arms Company .22(2 of them, actually), WW2 8mm Mauser, Mossberg 500, Marlin Model 90. Now for some ammo….