Prison: Fortress Or Folly?
For all of you who saw the season 2 finale of “The Walking Dead” you saw a large prison facility. For those of you who’ve read the comic books, you know that they end up in the prison. Now, this begs the question, is a prison a good place to hold out and use as a base after Z-day?
Since I actually work in a Maximum Security Prison, I’m uniquely qualified to weigh the pros and cons of a prison as a fortress/base of operations. Everyone knows that prisons are designed to keep people in, but they also have features to keep people out. Lets examine Prison defenses, starting with the largest, and most notable.
The Fence
Prisons usually have a few fences, and then inside those, there are even more fences. The chainlink and razor wire would definately keep zombies out. The fence at my prison actually stopped a large box truck full of inmates from escaping once upon a time. All it really takes though, is one person with some wire cutters to throw a serious monkey wrench in your defenses. A constant watch of the fence line 24 hours a day is essential for security.
The Facility
Modern prisons don’t really rely on bars for doors anymore. They have been replaced by large steel doors with polycarbinate windows that can stop a bullet. Sometimes bars are still used. For instance, inside my prison, the Max units have a gate of steel bars surrounding every door, which has to be opened and then shut behind you before you can open the steel door. These setups are called “trap gates” or “sally ports”. Every entrance to the building has at least one, and once inside that, there are even more doors. Sometimes up to five steel doors stand between you and the inside of the unit. Once inside, you’d stand a very good chance of withstanding an onslaught of zombies. If you want out, then thats another story all together. The unit control center, sits on top of the main unit where you can look out into every pod inside the unit. (there are 4 pods per unit) The Unit Control has its own trap gate, and also contains an escape door so that you can get out onto the roof. This would also be useful for your snipers. Each unit has two enclosed yard areas with 4-8 lockable recreation cages. These are useful for quarantine of new survivors so that you can observe them. After which, you can lock them inside a cell for more observation for as long as necessary. Each unit(in my prison) can house 96 inmates, so you can have a substantial amount of people living in one area.
The Armory
The Prison Armory isn’t a huge one, but it has lots of ammo. I can’t divulge much more than that, but I can say that people have to qualify with the weapons all the time, so there is enough ammo for that and to stop a full scale riot. There are rifles, pistols, and shotguns for at least 20 people, as well as specialty impact munitions, and smoke/gas grenades.
The Chow Hall
The prison keeps a good amount of food on hand. At least a months worth for the whole prison for inmates as well as officers. When there are only about 100 people, that can translate into close to a year of food in some instances. Water can be gotten through gathering techniques. Other foods can be grown on the exercise yards on the lower security units, because each low security yard is several acres. Just be sure to bring seeds, or gather them up. Make sure they are “legacy” seeds though, these seeds grow plants that also leave seeds. Some of the engineered plant species don’t make seeds.
All in all, a prison can make one hell of a Zombie Fortress. You just have to be sure that you clear it properly, and that you don’t become a victim of the security features and get trapped inside with a horde of zombies.
Comments (174)








McLuvin on 01 Aug 2012 at 2:11 pm #
A prison would make a great fortress assuming you found it nearly empty. If it was packed full of inmates, guards, and/or local survivors, you could have problems.
If it has a thousand living survivors, they may not want more mouths to feed. They also could be less than social. Being a forced labor or sex slave would not be a great way to outlive the apocalypse.
If that large group is comprised of zombies, you could be in even worse trouble. Clearing a large labarynthine facility with limited manpower and resources would be almost impossible.
If it had a minimal living or undead population they could be handled pretty easily. A small group of survivors would most likely welcome company. A small group of undead could be killed with little danger.
Obviously these answers are from a civilian. Angry would have a distinct advantage in this situation. Intimate knowledge of the facility could sway things heavily in your favor.
wheelgunner on 01 Aug 2012 at 5:17 pm #
It would seem that getting inside the prison to find out would be a determining factor as well, and the ease or conditions thereof can tell you mountains about what you could be facing inside.
Angryvikingman on 01 Aug 2012 at 9:25 pm #
Getting inside is easy enough with the right kinds of ladders. Just don’t fall in the razor wire. If you can get through the trap gates/windows into central control, you can get all the keys you need to open everything up. Just hope that there is still power. You can open everything manually with keys, but using a mouse and computer makes it much easier.
HangMan on 02 Aug 2012 at 8:31 am #
Most prison’s also have very large pen yards too. Start tearing down some of the more useless buildings such as a maximum security wing or the solitary confine and you should be set to go. Use the yards as farming lands.
Angryvikingman on 02 Aug 2012 at 11:15 am #
@HangMan, I mentioned using the yards as farmland.
As far as tearing down buildings, I don’t think I’d waste time and resources doing that.
@everyone else: (shameless plug)
Just in case you guys wanted to look at some of my knife designs.
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.448675268487939.98686.100000364104536&type=1&l=5e79fa7ddd
These are for the blanks, I’ll draw grind lines and handle scales on them later for a look at the finished knives.
McLuvin on 02 Aug 2012 at 11:34 am #
I’m not sure how you would tear down a prison building. The prison probably won’t have the heavy equipment on hand to demolish a reinforced building let alone digging up the foundation to expose dirt.
wheelgunner on 02 Aug 2012 at 4:23 pm #
I meant, if the place is open, it may be either overrun or already occupied, the fence may be already cut, stuff like that to tip you off.
ArmchairSoldier on 04 Aug 2012 at 10:20 am #
My thought is it would present a good base; however, there are several things to take into consideration:
Location: Is the soil dirt? Here in SC, much of the base soil is sand and will not be conducive to planting crops for food sustainment. The soil could also be full of rocks making tilling/planting difficult, if possible.
Vacancy: Would need to scout the location to determine who/what is occupying it before setting up shop.
If the first two criteria present a potential location, then the following come into play.
Gear/materials brough with you/group: You now have to move whatever was brought into an area that can be secured.
Reinforcing the perimeter: My thought on this is to have learn some welding as the guardrails on stairways and walkways can be cut and then welded onto the fence line (inner most if possible). I know no one is running around with an acetylene torch, but there may be tooling inside the wire to use. I know, big assumption.
Once settled initially, figuring a defensive strategy on how to deal with breachers (zombie horde or unpleasant survivors). Learning of chokepoints and weapons best suited for those particular areas would be beneficial.
I am sure there are a multitude of other aspects to think about, but my thoughts are what to do as soon as you enter your potential base and settle. I am sure Angry is going to pick this apart, but that is what this thread is for.
lucifershal0 on 04 Aug 2012 at 11:22 am #
Armchair I agree. And we r in Sc as well. I always thought fort sumter would be a good location. Having welding gear and torch cutters would be helpful if you had some kind of sustainable power.
Robbase on 04 Aug 2012 at 5:58 pm #
Seems like a death trap, can’t get out. Brings out feelings of chlosterphobia just thinking about it. Supplies and planning are obviously paramount. So when S hits the fan, are heading straight for the jailhouse. A giant lockdown facility would initially look like safe harbor, easy to stop invasion. However I wouldn’t enter even a small ediface without circumspection. Let alone a prison filled with dangerous men. Is the prison cleared out? It’d be just as dangerous if it was filled with the living. Head for the hills. I dont want to be anywhere, where i cant pickup and take off. I don’t see myself joining some make-shift society in a gd prison, let alone anywhere. Other than a small group, cooperating to eat, collect and basic survival. That would be hard enough. I stand firm that the living are the real threat in apocalyptic times. But I’ve never seen a real zombie(pretty sure its impossible and fictional,but if im wrong one day my name is” MUDD.” I’ll still have an M1A to maneuver through hell as long as possible)People shoot guns, kill, lie, cheat and steal. Thanks for the tip on legacy seeds
HangMan on 06 Aug 2012 at 9:38 pm #
Just picked up a new sidearm, Walter P22. Been with it at the range breaking it in and had absolutely no troubles with it. Fired everything I put through it.
Zombiekiller1318 on 07 Aug 2012 at 1:17 am #
My thought is if the prison is exactly like the one in the season 2 finale of The Walking Dead, very high/thick concrete walls with barbed/razor wire and is “old school” (doesn’t rely heavily on modern technology) then it would be perfect. Clearing it would be tricky especially since most people don’t have the slightest idea how to clear a room, let alone an entire facility. I say scout it out for a day or so first then try to get closer to determine if the facility is over run with flesh eatin corpses or unsavory types, inmates, which would present serious problems. I say it would be a perfect place to hole up but the conditions need to be spot on.
Zombiekiller1318 on 07 Aug 2012 at 1:22 pm #
Off topic question…I put in the wrong email address in my posts, will that affect if they are posted.
LuCiFeRsHaL0 on 08 Aug 2012 at 7:59 pm #
I seriously doubt it. As I always put my email addy in I never get emails from the site. After thinking it over a bit on this particular topic I’m not so sure that holding up in a prison would be a really smart idea. I could see if you had a large group or at least 6-8 or more people. Having just like 5 would seem easier to stay on the move. I wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to worry about locking up such a large facility. I also have a question that I would love an answer for. I don’t know ANYTHING about 2 way radios other than how to talk back and forth with the button. In the event of this catastrophic event, what would be the best kind of portable radios to buy for myself and maybe a friend or something to keep in touch?
Angryvikingman on 09 Aug 2012 at 1:21 am #
Anything that you can hook to a solar charger. Cheaperthandirt used to sell them with adapter kits, but now IDK.
As for small groups staying on the move, Bad Idea. Here’s why:
1. Constantly moving increases needed calories per day, so you’d burn up more by being on the move than staying in one place. So you’d have to constantly scavage. Its a catch 22.
2. By constantly moving, you’d never have a “safe” place to rest. This leads fo mental and physical fatigue.
3. Well, those two are enough, and I’m tired.
zombiekiller1318 on 10 Aug 2012 at 10:07 pm #
I had another thought on this as well…I get that the group would be safe for awhile, and ideally would be able to begin planting gardens and what not but what about going off the “base” to gather other supplies. eventually you’ll run out of shit and have to resupply things. the problem is what happens when the hordes gather all around the gates…then your’re stuck!!! I don’t know…havign the walls and security would be good but I also don’t like the idea of being trapped in one spot. What do ya’all think???
ArmchairSolider on 11 Aug 2012 at 3:33 pm #
I would not take the extreme nomad approach that was given. Your scavenging runs will become less fruitful the more you move. Besides, hoping to find supplies at your next location is never guaranteed. Also, who is to say that you would not run straight into a horde? Would you really want to risk having to evade already slightly starved/tired/dehydrated in the hopes of finding shelter to hide in or prepare your final stand? Granted a siege is a siege, but if you can stay alive inside the wire because of your food stock is replenishable then it won’t matter how many there are. If they can’t get in and you can’t get out, it’s better to get stuck with food than without. Plus, if a horde is surrounding the wire, unsavory types may bypass it since they would have to fight their way in. The horde surrounding you is now an extended defense or “moat.”
But with all things, make sure the place is empty first. I think that would go without saying for any structure you would consider.
McLuvin on 13 Aug 2012 at 10:24 am #
Zombiekiller- I guess it depends on the size of the horde surrounding your fence. Many prisons are in more rural areas so they are kinda out of the way. Hopefully this would keep the horde to a minimum. If you do your part to not draw a huge crowd you could manage a reasonable number of unwelcome guests. Several books have outlined systems to draw them away from your gate allowing a scavenging crew ingress and egress. I like the idea of just having people go out to the fence, get their attention, and lead them around to the opposite side of the complex. If you get to the point where the fence is completely surrounded, you better have a good garden!
Castle83 on 13 Aug 2012 at 7:04 pm #
I always thought having a prison as a fortress would be ideal. I do however think that the possible convicts and or guards would be a serious problem. If you are lucky enough to stumble on a prison that is devoid of a “living” population, I say go for it.
I have an even better location close to me; a juvenile detention facility. The grounds are old school and have 20′ high brick walls with razor wire. Security might not be as good as a maximum security wing, but the most important part (the walls) are there. Most importantly I would assume that the population would be evacuated in the event of a catostrophic situation such as this. Ergo, the defenses are sound and ripe for the taking. I do understand that the facility would not be as well equiped with weapons and security measures, however I think that lack of a pissed off violent criminals would make it a better alternative. Thoughts?
wheelgunner on 13 Aug 2012 at 11:26 pm #
Criminal kids that have been locked up set loose in an established anarchy? I’ll take my chances bear hugging a horde. Real trouble ends up behind those walls, at least around here.
ArmchairSoldier on 14 Aug 2012 at 12:08 am #
It looks like we are down to: if it’s devoid of inhabitants, located in a rural setting, ground suitable for planting, stocked with weaponry, and defenses intact. Did I miss anything?
specially equipped guardsman on 14 Aug 2012 at 12:19 am #
I had an idea for keeping hordes off my outer perimeter. Off site kill zones, I’m thinking about a series of pits 3 meters deep 20 to 30 meters across with sides sloping downward at an increasing angle, once the start in they can’t get out. In the middle on a pole will be some kind of noise maker or bait to lure them in. once a week you send a patrol by and trow in a Molotov cocktail. Any that manage to wonder past the pits and up to your perimeter can be dispatched by the guard force.
Yes it will require Earth moving equipment or a LOT of labor. But I think its worth not to have to fight your way in and out of your fort.
HangMan on 14 Aug 2012 at 9:30 am #
@ Guardsman- Well the only issue with that is that burning to death isn’t caused by brain melting. It’s caused by the constant pain of the flames, you usually have a heart attack. It would take a LOT of fire to kill just a single person, and a quite a bit of time. If you’re going to set up kill pits, might as well sut up spring loaded spikes that are hooked up to pressure plates. You’d get better use out of them. In fact, screw the pits, set up claymores. Worlds best alarm.
specially equipped guardsman on 14 Aug 2012 at 10:13 am #
@hangman- I’m not trying to “kill” them so much as dispose of their remains. once in place the pits will require little maintenance. spring traps seems like it will need a lot of PMCS. I don’t own a claymore* nor do I know off hand where National Guard stores theirs. I own a shovel, and I know where I can find a backhoe.
* except for my basket hilt.
HangMan on 15 Aug 2012 at 12:46 am #
Still, maybe fire wouldn’t be the best option. For all we know it could turn the virus airborn. That’s the tricky part with fire, we don’t know exactly WHAT it could do to a potential zombie virus. It could make it airborn or it COULD be extremely effective.
sasuke on 15 Aug 2012 at 1:58 pm #
Alright well the pits could be a good idea, but instead of chucking fire and wasting ammunition let’s look at the situation from this perspective,
Say you manage to penetrate the facility I think a smart thing to do would be to try make it to the roof of the prison, from there make sure the exits onto the roof are barred shut! Then have 3 people on duty to keep each other awake and to keep us safe, if there is a disturbance they are to wake us up ASAP , after nightfall we may have some information on the holding such as we can hear if there is movement inside the prison, when night is over and the sun is in sight (+/-5:30 AM) get the group and weaponry to go around the facility and check that the fencing is in tact, I don’t see how razor wire is gonna help against the undead when they can’t feel, if anything they’ll loose a leg at worst, once that is done make the way into the prison, if there are prisoners , as a group make a decision , free them ? Or get help from them and use them as pawns, clear prison and use garden to grow crops have that going so that once all the perishable food is gone the group can still eat , then have a team go out once in a while to gather bare minimum resources, if there is a hored surrounding the facility crush em with boulders, or have a makeshift longish spear and get em between the eyes , why waste ammo, is this plan a real crappy 1 haha or does it have some logic to it , if there’s oaks in the prison, yeah well we kinda screwed, all we can do is offer to help combat the resistance and hope for the best
Please comment :)
HangMan on 15 Aug 2012 at 4:27 pm #
On an unrelated side note, just put a saiga .223 on 24 hour hold at my local store. Getting paid tonight and gonna pick it up after my shift. Excited for it!
ArmchairSoldier on 15 Aug 2012 at 8:40 pm #
I think you have some good ideas Sasuke. I think if we use the pits and longspears, you can wittle down any that get caught in them easily. The stragglers outside can be dealt with similarly. I can only question how you would get up to the roof, but that may be a side detail. Anyone else have ideas?
McLuvin on 15 Aug 2012 at 9:50 pm #
I like the pits if you can access heavy equipment. Digging by hand would burn too much energy in a world where you don’t know when your next meal is coming.
The giant boulder idea is just stupid
specially equipped guardsman on 15 Aug 2012 at 11:39 pm #
Never stop improving your defenses. Never. after the pits, you can get started on a ditch and berm. If your going to be somewhere long enough to plant crops you’re there long enough to dig in. Plus you can use them as trash pits.
Once again the fire is not being used as a weapon if the pit is properly constructed they won’t be able to get out. the fire is just to make sure it doesn’t overfill.
Angryvikingman on 16 Aug 2012 at 11:19 am #
Ok guys, I’m taking pitches for ideas on a new article. Go ahead and send them my way!
McLuvin on 16 Aug 2012 at 11:54 am #
Bring back the scenarios. A few years ago there were some situations thrown out that we could build off of and tell what we would do. I think I remember a bathroom and a movie theater. Give us something to think about. The premis doesn’t have to be extravagant as we will all have a different location or area in mind anyway. Just a basic “You’re at the gas station and are approached by a homeless guy acting weird” or “someone at work alerts everyone to some strange news stories” type intro and let us do the rest.
You can always rehash the old real world loadout/real world bailout bag/fantasy loadout articles. Those are always popular.
wheelgunner on 16 Aug 2012 at 1:26 pm #
No matter what thread we are on, new weapons always get rehashed regardless.
I like the semi-nonspecific scenarios myself. No options A, B, or C, but the open ended what would you do? Hunting trip or day at the mall or something.
While on that thought line, is there any way we could make the site any easier to navigate? We may not need as much new stuff if it would be easier for both us and new guys to go back and find the appropriate thread to post on, instead of jumping on whatever is easiest to find. No saying it will stop anything, but it is a pain in the ass to try and find an on thread you are looking for. Just an idea.
Angryvikingman on 16 Aug 2012 at 1:34 pm #
OK, I’ll work on a scenario.
As for the site navigation, theres nothing I can do. I just write for the site, I have no way to alter anything other than articles I write. I will however, bring up the naviagtion thing to the site owner. I actually agree that its hard to find some of the old articles.
wheelgunner on 16 Aug 2012 at 6:02 pm #
Thanks. On both counts.
wheelgunner on 16 Aug 2012 at 6:12 pm #
I personally would try out the zombie burn pits. Or, if you are going to pit them up for that long, why not throw in some lye or lye wash to dissolve them? That shit’ll eat anything you put it near. I don’t think that putting stakes in them will do much other than hold them in place.
Castle86 on 16 Aug 2012 at 11:18 pm #
Burn pits are all well and good but they require one thing, fuel. Fuel is a finite resource which shouldn’t be wasted unless absolutely necessary, as it right at the gates. I would much prefere luring hordes to a location away from your fortress. You can still use pits to collect them but who says you need to waste resources killing them? Just let them sit, they are not going anywhere. Yes, the pits would fill up but you are not limited to just pits. Any walled in area could be used to lure and contain them. Given the chance I would kill them but I think the top priority here is to lure the hordes away from your location.
Castle83 on 16 Aug 2012 at 11:19 pm #
Hey Angry, can you approve my post? I accidentally misspelled my name and it’s awaiting moderation.
sasuke on 17 Aug 2012 at 12:12 am #
@ Angry I really enjoyed the scenario 1, 2 3 with the baby , the kids , and my sister , scenario 1 and 3 were heart gripping , and scenario 2 was tactical, more of those kinda scenarios would be awesome,also I have a Question , do you think the zombies are gonna be like those of walking dead? Slow hungry mofos :) or you think they’ll be like the FAST 1s from I am Legend? On my way to give a speech , will check in again a lil later, have a great day all :)
sasuke on 17 Aug 2012 at 12:15 am #
At Angry I really enjoyed the scenario 1, 2 3 with the baby , the kids , and my sister , scenario 1 and 3 were heart gripping , and scenario 2 was tactical, more of those kinda scenarios would be awesome,also I have a Question , do you think the zombies are gonna be like those of walking dead? Slow hungry mofos :) or you think they’ll be like the FAST 1s from I am Legend? On my way to give a speech , will check in again a lil later, have a great day all :)
and sorry if my comments are duplication , its not wanting to let me post..
wheelgunner on 17 Aug 2012 at 12:47 am #
I AM LEGEND WAS M@##$%FU&^ING VAMPIRES NOT ZOMBIES!!!!!!!
That said, can I get more sword on this?(holds out everything)
Robbase on 17 Aug 2012 at 12:51 am #
#angry
Topic: “PLINKING .22LR” Not too macho,but Cheap!(ammo&rifles).. examples:6300rounds@$225,Rifles@$145-$280, red dot w/light-laser@$125..approx.
Just thinking about the ROOFTOP HYPOTHETICAL. Unless there’s 10,000zombies or more!!.., seems like it’d be effective. Pile ‘em up 5 ft high.
I love my.45′s, my spngfldM1A, and pistolgrip12g auto,(dont get me wrong, I’d be carrying all 3).., but at around $.75 a pop? Moreover, they’re for close encounter tactical situations, and the sniper for 40-100yrd. I keep 1,000rd of each at all times. I DON’T HAVE A 22lr, but I’m thinking it’s a good idea.
Surrounded on a roof and ammo is a real problem. Minus explosives, boulders, spikes, acids and stupid shit like that. Guns only. I think a Plinkster’d do just fine. But you’d need a large backpack for ammo only and tactical magazine vest.(p.s.don’t forget your Kevlar!) Stock up!
specially equipped guardsman on 17 Aug 2012 at 5:59 am #
@ wheel gunner, I’m not opposed to lye I was just thinking flammable liquids would be easier to come by and use.
@Viking, how about a topic on Squad/team load outs, I recall on on personal load out and bug out bags. What kind of gear would we carry for a 5 to 10 man team and who carries what.
wheelgunner on 17 Aug 2012 at 1:09 pm #
@gaurdsman-Take white ash from a fire, put it in a barrel, poke a hole in the bottom of the barrel, and pour in some water to the top. The liquid that comes out the bottom is lie. That easy. Combine the lye with the fire, and the heat is supposed to speed the lye up enormously.
Semper Cogitant on 17 Aug 2012 at 4:01 pm #
We have a prison not to far from where I work. Quite a big complex, yards big enough that you could grow enough food for a lot of people. Several fences and walls defend it, several buildings, designed to be self sufficient. Can produce it’s own energy and water.
It would be a great fortress, very defensible against the undead. The trouble of course would be the heavily armed staff and the large number of inmates. They have a lot of lifers there, and a whole section for rapists and molesters and such. There would be a lot of still living folks you’d have to kill to use it. Since it’s staffed 24/7 the guards would still be running it unless the outbreak started there.
I’d probably skip it. Though maybe if I set up another stronghold nearby they might be folks to trade with at need.
As for the burn pit, I like the idea. Having a sort of mote around your stronghold that you could light up would be good. So long as you were triple sure of your safety precautions. Fire can be fickle.
J.d. (Lucifershal0) on 21 Aug 2012 at 8:08 pm #
also on the fire I would think that could attract unwanted attention from both the z’s or other hostile groups I would think. especially at night. d
wheelgunner on 22 Aug 2012 at 3:02 am #
Could you put some kind of noisemaker in the pits as bait? Not sure what, exactly, but it’s the seed of a good idea.
HangMan on 22 Aug 2012 at 8:36 am #
Maybe a vocal recording if they’ve learned to hunt by voices?
wheelgunner on 22 Aug 2012 at 8:47 am #
I had a thought on something triggered by a trip line. I wonder if something as simple as a tin can clap line, like they use for early warnings, would be enough to trick them. At the least, it could draw your attention to let you know they were there.
specially equipped guardsman on 22 Aug 2012 at 11:05 am #
@wheelgunner, That was my plan. Noise maker on top of a pole. Possibly solar or a windmill powered. It would depend on what it takes to attract them. If a simple noisemaker won’t do it maybe a recording or perhaps live bait.
wheelgunner on 23 Aug 2012 at 6:30 pm #
This sounds bad, but I guess live bait would be one thing to do with the criminals.
Castle83 on 23 Aug 2012 at 11:57 pm #
Speaking of other possible strongholds, I have an idea for…not necessariily a base, but a resupply point perhaps.
I work for the public works department of a City I would prefere to remain nameless. If you are looking for supplies for z-day this would be the place to go. I can only speak for my particualr City, but I can assume most areas opperate in the same manner. I will organize my statement by points of interest.
Positioning: Most public works sites (where vehicals are stored) are away from the general population. They are protected by fairly high walls (so the inside cannot be viewed) and are generally secure.
Vehicals: This is the primary area where ALL public work vehicals are stored i.e. utility trucks, bulldozers, bobcats, stakebed trucks, cherry pickers, and every other large work truck, vehical or car you can imagine.
Fuel: Most public works yards have fuel on-site, either natural gas or regular fuel to refill the fleet. In the case of my site, a gas depot is mere miles away, that alows City vehicals to refill in the case of a catastrophy.
Supplies: Public works yards are the staging point for emergency supplies. Emergency supplies are delivered here before they are moved to primary facilities such as police stations, City halls, and government centers. This would be an ideal location to loot supplies before they are moved to….more targeted locations. Also, these facilities run on massive emergency generators and can run LONG before you need to worry about refilling the fuel.
Tools and workshops: Most City yards are equiped with a full maintenece shop (to repair an entire fleet of vehicals) as well as replacement parts. Additionally they contain welding areas and supplies as well as other methods of fabrication. Also contained are tools for clearing brush i.e. axes, machetes, sharpening machines etc.
Ease of ingress: I can tell you for a fact that if z-day does come, the majority of City employees are running with their families…not going to work. This would leave the majority of these faciilities intact. Also, I can tell you that security at most of these facilities is a joke. If you have have a brain you can get in and get access to all of the keys for the vehicals located here.
Emergency items: Other things located here could include: Police command centers (where they are kept before deployment) radios, medical supplies, etc.
Safety: Most emergency locations are a bad place to be due to the fact that most people congregate there. This is a staging area and for the most part not known by the public. This makes it an excellent area to resupply away from the general population.
Not all facilities of this time fit this particular format…but they are close.
In my opinion, this is a perfect location to gather supplies and vehicals for this situation. Any thoughts?
HangMan on 25 Aug 2012 at 10:43 am #
Why not do an article about our 2nd ammendment rights and political bills to take them away? Not biased journalism, just a report of bills that could possibly limit our ownership.
McLuvin on 25 Aug 2012 at 1:04 pm #
Judging by responses most of the regulars here aren’t old enough to vote.
J.d. (Lucifershal0) on 25 Aug 2012 at 9:37 pm #
Is this in response to the upcoming election I might ask? I’d say the 2nd Amendment is going bye bye if dumbass gets re-elected and then we will be fighting with sticks and stones! I wish the site would get updated with a new article! I keep logging in every other day to check up on new updates. I have a couple of close friends and we all have emergency action plans in regards to the catastrophic emergency of zday or just anything chaotic like civil unrest in general. I think if you know someone well enough that you trust then pooling with other resources would be your best chance at staying alive during anarchy. We all know trying to get to a grocery store is a horrible idea. Most people are going to loot and pillage anything they want. And most criminals are going to go straight for the gun shops for weapons and ammo. I highly doubt gunstore owners are going to hang around and wait on people unless they’re not married or have no families. Just think about life in general. Sports, televised shows and everything that the majority of people interact with. With most people probably trying to run away there would be just unimaginable congestion on all major highways and streets. The military and police will have enough to deal with on their hands. I think alot of people will break under such pressure. Your talking a huge amount of stress and shock. It always makes me think about all the anti-gun people that live in this great nation. What the hell are they going to do? Talk it out with a zed? I think what I’m trying to get at here is, are you all ready for something of this magnitude? I feel I’m mostly prepared but still have alot to take care of before I’ll be satisfied.
HangMan on 26 Aug 2012 at 8:38 am #
No it’s just I’ve noticed that this website doesn’t touch much on a political side. Sure in the forums, but not in the actual articles so much.
specially equipped guardsman on 26 Aug 2012 at 12:08 pm #
I think we’re all pretty pro 2nd amendment here, no need to preach to the choir.
I had an idea for an article or at least some new comments.
We’ve talked about our Rifles and our shotguns and we’ve on and on and on about why wheelgunners pistols suck…BaDumpTish. Just kidding wheelgunner Just kidding.
What about accessories?
What kind of Holster do you use? I have drop leg SERPA that I like.
Is there a model you tried and hated? I had a Bianchi that I used for years until I started shooting IDPA, it kept hanging up on the draw so I went to the SERPA
What kind of ammo pouches do you like, how many do you have? I have so many generations of Mag pouches I could probably equip a squad out of my basement. Mostly military issue.
Do you carry a clip knife, what kind? I’m carrying an H&K right now but I like spyderco
Gerber or leather man? Leatherman wave, I use it more then anything else
flashlights? I keep a little leatherman light in my pocket and a Smith and Wesson tac light on my BOB. I have a surefire somewhere but don’t use it much. Its bright as hell but those CR123 don’t last long and there hard to find. I stick with AA and AAA rechargeables now.
Slings. leather? nylon? bungee? single point or double? Yes.
McLuvin on 26 Aug 2012 at 1:38 pm #
Sounds like a good topic to me.
wheelgunner on 26 Aug 2012 at 4:41 pm #
Sounds like a great topic. I can fill it full of all my good decisions for you all to learn from. Ha.
Castle83 on 27 Aug 2012 at 12:13 pm #
Listing accessories is a good iidea. I also like a recent posted idea about squad make-up. Who could you get on your squad? What are their backgrounds? Military, mechanical background? What armaments can you reasonably get your hands on I.e what do you or your friends already have access to? Not a wish list of what you are going to loot from your local gun store or how your going to saunter on to a military base and get RPGs.
McLuvin on 27 Aug 2012 at 1:07 pm #
That would be another good topic, Castle. It would be nice if we could get a topic up every week or ten days just to keep things moving. I know Viking gets busy, but there are several others(ZAC Admin, Kain) who have just disappeared.
HangMan on 27 Aug 2012 at 3:15 pm #
Yeah it kind of blows. I’d be game for the squad make up even though i already know exactly what my roll would be which would be a little redundant but redundancies are always helpful.
wheelgunner on 27 Aug 2012 at 4:59 pm #
You going to hang them?
wheelgunner on 28 Aug 2012 at 2:20 am #
Anybody know anything about traditionalfilipinoweapons.com ? Saw some things that I liked, wanted to see if anyone knew anything before I dropped the hammer.
McLuvin on 28 Aug 2012 at 8:53 am #
I’d be hesitant because they don’t actually list a steel. They claim it’s good steel, but never say what it is. For the prices listed I’d want to know what I was buying. Try to find a Cold Steel Moro Barong. They are considerably cheaper and usual CS quality.
wheelgunner on 28 Aug 2012 at 11:02 am #
I kind of broke a CS one. They say they use a combo 1060 carbon/D2 tool steel. I managed to hunt down some videos of them after a stupidly long search, and it looked like some good stuff.
specially equipped guardsman on 29 Aug 2012 at 11:16 am #
I don’t know if any of you guys are fans, but John Ringo is working on a Zombie novel.
HangMan on 29 Aug 2012 at 3:19 pm #
Unrelated note: Leaving to the Alaskan coast next summer.
McLuvin on 29 Aug 2012 at 3:26 pm #
I’m a Ringo fan. I’ll check it out, thanks.
McLuvin on 30 Aug 2012 at 9:03 pm #
This is a little ridiculous. Angry hasn’t even posted on active topics in two weeks. Why does no one keep this site updated? We just gave you several ideas for topics. This is why we only have a handful of regulars. Most people give up on sites with no activity.
McLuvin on 30 Aug 2012 at 9:23 pm #
Correction- This topic in two weeks. Last topic one week ago.
Angryvikingman on 31 Aug 2012 at 4:30 am #
yes, good ideas, but working 2 jobs to keep the lights on kind of limits my time at the keyboard. Ya know? There used to be 2 other writers for this site, but they’ve stopped posting for the most part. Maybe I need to speak to the admin about taking on some new blood.
McLuvin on 31 Aug 2012 at 8:09 am #
Yes, what ever happened to Kain and ZAC Admin? I mentioned in an earlier post that I know you get busy, but you used to have help. I know this isn’t your site, but you are the only one doing anything for it. Why do they even keep it up if they don’t want to be involved?
wheelgunner on 31 Aug 2012 at 6:24 pm #
Or turn it over at least. Something.
Alex on 01 Sep 2012 at 7:59 am #
being a latecomer to the discussion as usual i will add my thoughts.
A large prison is a massive place to handle on your own but in a fairly large group it could well be a very ideal spot. However the thought of zombie prisoners locked in every cell is a bit of a put off. Having cleared
the prison the cells would provide lots of room to stash kit, ammo, food, eg.
We would have to set up generators, solar panels, wind turbines for electricity – hard to get and transport and you need fuel for the generators but i expect electricity is vital to make the prison work. + I think prisons have big network of CCTV / security cams – your going to need eyes 247 on the fences to stop rival groups of survivors sabotaging / invading your place.
There will be space to grow crops and possibly keep livestock.
Keeping order is crucial at this point.
specially equipped guardsman on 02 Sep 2012 at 10:37 am #
@Angryvikingman, You’re making knives now right? I believe I’ve mentioned my believe that the bayonet retains some utility against the damned. What do you think about making an AR-15/M16 bayonet but with the length of a 1903 or 1907 SMLE bayonet? Is that doable? how much would something like that cost?
Castle83 on 02 Sep 2012 at 4:07 pm #
Bayonets were designed around sturdy world ward 1 @ 2 era weapons. I don’t think an AR/M16 variant could stand up to that kind of repeated hand to hand punishment. Perhaps an AK variant due to a more sturdy construction. Could be wrong, just my two cents.
McLuvin on 02 Sep 2012 at 5:15 pm #
Castle- I agree. ARs are not nearly as sturdy as older weapons. With a standard plastic collapsible stock you’d have a broken gun pretty quick if you use the traditional bash and slash method.
SEG- A longer bayonet isn’t necessarily better. Too long and it gets cumbersome. A nice sturdy bayonet with a long blade could be better utilized as a short sword.
wheelgunner on 02 Sep 2012 at 6:20 pm #
I would like the option to choose. I do like a six/seven inch bayonet when I can get one. Better safe than sorry and all that jazz.
CompShooter on 02 Sep 2012 at 8:09 pm #
A prison sounds like a good idea but for me there would have to pass some requirements. First off, is it a modern double fenced perimeter or old school with high walls? With foraging or farming you will be exposed to being seen and that draws attention. While I don’t know the exact construction of prison chain link fences, did they take into consideration when a massive horde is pressing up against it for days on end or raiders with a semi as a battering ram? I think it will breech eventually. Secondly is it occupied with the living? If so I think I would move on if the situation permits, If you are spending resources on guarding inmates and thwarting off zeds thats just a waste and eventually will fail. Even if the guards are still there (I think many or all would leave their post to be with their families eventually) the inmates still require food and water so what are the other options? Let them go or execute them? If you let them go you might be fighting them later if they regroup or join up with factions that want what you have by providing intel. So that leaves execution, putting aside all the moral and psychology ramifications, it burns up ammo and you probably have a riot to contend with. I didn’t mention letting them (inmates) join since I couldn’t trust any of them to begin with although for a select few , there could be some sort of vetting process with the group, but for me in the end regardless of construction if it is occupied by the original intended people I would move on to my planned destination after assessing intel and resupply.
specially equipped guardsman on 02 Sep 2012 at 11:51 pm #
I have an old M7 bayonet. its actually my goto field knife. It get the job done and I don’t care how dinged up it might get in the process. and if I lose it, so what its 25 bucks. What got me thinking about a longer one was the ability to multitask with it. Yes I could use it a short sword, or as impromptu machete, or put it on the end of my 20 in mossberg and I think it would be very effective at keeping zack out of arms reach. I was really just wondering what a quality piece of steel like that would cost.
3-15 inf on 03 Sep 2012 at 7:59 pm #
I’ve always been an advocate of a bayonet- you can use it a general field knife, and can stab with it in certain situations. I imagine when defending a choke point like a window, door or gate. Think of being on one side of a chain link fence or gate, and a group of zeds are pushing on it. Don’t waste ammo- start short trusts. Not the perfect weapon in every situation, but pretty close in this one.
Castle83 on 03 Sep 2012 at 10:11 pm #
No one is debating the usefullness of a bayonet, simply the platform. Bayonets have their time and place, but can’t simply be affixed to anything that suits you. You need a tough peice of machinery that can take the punishment. Besides, even in the right situation I would think a bayonet would be nothing more than a fall back weapon next to your regular melee weapon. Not an “I win button” on the end of your weapon.
specially equipped guardsman on 05 Sep 2012 at 11:58 pm #
True the AR platform is not as sturdy as say am M1 or 1903 for actions like the butt stroke, which would put heavy lateral stress on the joints, but the thrust and the smash put the stress down the longitudinal axis where the designs are more sturdy. then again maybe I’ll just pick up and SKS with a pig sticker.
specially equipped guardsman on 06 Sep 2012 at 12:00 am #
You know what I’d really like to see on this site? The ability to go back and edit my typos.
wheelgunner on 06 Sep 2012 at 3:41 am #
Heard that.
Alex on 07 Sep 2012 at 11:57 am #
sort of getting off topic guys, sorry
McLuvin on 07 Sep 2012 at 12:45 pm #
What topic?
You mean the topic we started over a month ago?
We tend to drift to different subjects since no one will post new topics.
wheelgunner on 07 Sep 2012 at 3:18 pm #
Eh. How about this then. How many people do you think would need to be in the party for you to take a crack at the prison?
McLuvin on 07 Sep 2012 at 3:48 pm #
With my party members I’d say minimum of 4, but my group will be better equipped and trained than most.
HangMan on 07 Sep 2012 at 7:07 pm #
Eh there’s a number of factors that would determine the size of the group needed to crack the prison. I put it at about 10 with the average size of the prison’s I’ve seen around Colorado. 4 in the control room with at least one working on their electronic security systems if any are left. With 6 (3 teams of 2 people) pulling security sweeps of the complex.
ArmchairSoldier on 07 Sep 2012 at 9:53 pm #
I would think 12 for my party to clear it. That may sound like a lot, but just using my wife’s and my family members that are able to handle firearms, that would do it. (Coincidentally, one works at a correctional facility and another as a firearms instructor that can actually shoot.) Anyway…
I would break the groups into 2 groups of 5 each and the remaing two with myself. (I figure 12 in addition to me) 3 would move forward with two acting as a rear guard because there is always a straggler lurking somewhere. The two main teams would clear each section with 1 from each group also carrying a shotgun, whether primary or secondary, for group shots. The two with me would find a tower/wall to provide overwatch for anything else outside.
I am going with the assumption that this place was found sometime after the situation began. I would not even consider ‘liberating’ a prison in the early days. I would think it would take several weeks before a prison becomes viable as the inhabitants are either dead from starvation (locked in cells), dead and walking, or have been let out. Not many, if any, would want to stay inside when given the opportunity to get out.
Those are my thoughts.
McLuvin on 07 Sep 2012 at 10:41 pm #
Armchair- I would caution clearing a large structure with inexperienced shooters. You claim that your shooting instructor friend can actually shoot and I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you can. If the rest of your group are just novices, that could be very dangerous. They are as likely to shoot each other as they are to shoot zombies. You may be better off to compose each squad of one experienced shooter and the rest with melee weapons. They are less likely to hurt each other that way.
McLuvin on 07 Sep 2012 at 10:46 pm #
This makes me wonder how some of you are choosing your groups. Are you just including everyone you know or do you have a list? Do you try to pick based on skills and talents or just relationships and proximity? What skills do you look for? What do you bring to the table?
I realize this would be a good new topic, but that is unlikely on this half-dead site.
HangMan on 08 Sep 2012 at 9:21 am #
Honestly my actual group is only about 4 people. I implied about 10 if I had the people (with training) and resources. But a prison would not be my first choice to tell the truth.
ArmchairSoldier on 08 Sep 2012 at 9:33 am #
Excellent point McLuvin. Just to give you a breakdown of their and my experience. Those on my wife’s side are avid hunters. The ones that are in law enforcement can actually shoot (not coffee shop cops). My side is current and former military (11B to be exact, no super soldier just an infantryman). I also spend a lot of time at the range to make sure I can still hit what I am aiming at.
As for clearing the walkways and such, yes I would have the more experienced divided up. One other thing I would do is work on room clearing/cqb techniques beforehand so no one is going in cold. I would think that if it is possible, it would be good to train and practice basic squad level tactics so everyone knows what to do and no one gets hurt. Anything that can be done to minimize friendly fire situations would definitely be taken into account. (but thanks for jogging the thought)
An added bonus is those on my wife’s side live in a rural/resort area and do some small scale farming/planting so there is at least some hope of food replenishment. One is a master builder so there is a construction background (the rest of the in-laws have done construction). I have experience in electrical on an industrial level. Most of them can work on cars and one has experience with small engine repair (portable generators can be maintained). In my situation, I am just lucky to have available the people with a multitude of skills. Not saying all are in the same place, but there is at least a fighting chance of getting them together.
What is nice is the feedback is helping me assess the skills and experience that is available to me to think of how best to utilize them. So thanks for the comments and keep them coming.
Castle83 on 08 Sep 2012 at 7:37 pm #
I always planed on splitting my groups into teams, assault and base defense/logistics.
Trained shooters would go in the assault teams to take areas or forage. I have two teams of three shooters. Two police, one marine, an army ranger, and two skilled civilian shooters counting me. We would be the ones to take the prison if logistically possible. Each team would have two AR 15′s and a shotgun. Police riot gear is available for at least two members if needed.
The support team would hold the base area and would be the experienced fabricators, mechanics and machinists. I’d also leave behind a few experienced civilian shooters to hold down the fort
wheelgunner on 08 Sep 2012 at 9:02 pm #
I’m afraid I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one. My ideal group is relatively small and hard hitting, but I’m going to have to choose between a rough dozen of useful friends, or family and friends of the family, perhaps several dozen. I’m just going to have to wait and see how events turn out.
That said, I’d take around a dozen to clear the facility, broken into groups of three. Two groups to clear, one to provide security outside, one to support.
Docwade on 09 Sep 2012 at 5:41 pm #
It’s too much real estate. Besides the fact that you have to supply power to lock and unlock many of the doors inside and outside, with a small team, you would have to sweep and area, definitively secure it, rest, sweep an area attached, definitively secure it, rest, etc. It’s not impossible. However, it would require a very secure staging area, portable power, welding/cutting tools. A four man team could not provide exterior security, again, it’s too much real estate. It would be nice to use all the security cameras, but that’s a lot of power to produce. Your giant modern keep also will attract some attention as other survivors will have similar ideas regarding its usefulness. It makes me think of that excerp from world war z I believe, where the moneyed stars have holed up in a high walled compound with live video feeds from inside, very “real world”. Then everyone in the area comes rushing over and overwhelms the security and scales the walls.
Four or forty, your team just becomes the next group to be swept and cleared by the next band of people who believe the prison is just what they were looking for.
McLuvin on 09 Sep 2012 at 5:58 pm #
Agreed on the prison being a big job. That’s why in my earlier post I said a prison would only be a viable option if you found it empty or almost so. The idea that it would be hard to defend is both true and not so true. Depending on the layout and size of the facility it could be hard to watch the entire fence line for intruders. At the same time, the fact that it has a fence line makes it much better than my apartment.
Docwade on 09 Sep 2012 at 6:10 pm #
How good is the fence line if, say, someone drives their “Snowplow bumpered Escalade” through it? Fixed defensive positions eventually fall. It’s a historical fact. And, being in a building with limited egresses will eventually result in the equivalent of fighting in a basement…
You know, fightin’ in a basement offers a lot of difficulties. Number one being, you’re fightin’ in a basement!
McLuvin on 09 Sep 2012 at 7:11 pm #
Any building I’m in is technically a “fixed defensive position”. That same snowplow equipped SUV also renders the walls of my home useless. All buildings have “limited egresses”. If a group of ruffians came through the front and back door of your home right now where would you go? The basement problem can be an issue anywhere if the enemy is smart. Considering the limitations of all fixed positions, I’d prefer mine to have a double fence line, reinforced concrete walls, and solid steel doors.
Docwade on 09 Sep 2012 at 7:47 pm #
Once again, your limited view clouds your judgement. Prisons are not designed to keep people out. They also are moderately designed to sequester areas to be stormed in case of riots. You can argue the details all you want, the broad view says its too high profile, too much real estate, it will turn into a blacker than black cave at night, there’s too many open areas inside, you would have to do some serious lock cutting and welding to access areas and make them able to be locked by hand on the fly.
McLuvin on 09 Sep 2012 at 8:05 pm #
The cell blocks can stay locked for all I care. I wouldn’t need that much room. My group can stay in the offices and guard rooms. The same steel doors and fences designed to keep people in will do just fine at keeping people out.
wheelgunner on 09 Sep 2012 at 9:03 pm #
Or, you know, you could actually turn it into a castle, and arm it with a group of survivors. Base of ops.
specially equipped guardsman on 09 Sep 2012 at 9:54 pm #
@Docwade, I’ve spent the better part of the last 6 years living in one “Fixed defensive positions” or another. None of them have ever been over run. Defensive positions are force multipliers. yes any position can be overrun if the opposition has sufficient combat power but who says they will. Also unless your ultimate goal is to watch the human race dwindle into a pack of stick wielding, marathon running, hunter gathers who are afraid to start a fire because it will draw ..”the others”, you HAVE to set a base sooner or later.
ArmchairSoldier on 09 Sep 2012 at 11:16 pm #
Let’s look at it this way. The Escalade is noisy, so you should hear it before it comes. If they RAM the gate, they are stupid or know you are there. If you secure without making your presence known, you have a shot of lasting a while. Setting up your daem as far out of sight would be good. But if you are in a defensive struggle, pit traps work on vehicles too. Plus , you may want to add to your scavenging list some NVG equipment. These can ne found in most major hunting supply stores.
Just some added fodder…
wheelgunner on 10 Sep 2012 at 6:06 am #
The way it sounds in the premise, the prison is large enough to house a rough thousand people. You could hide a four man team in there and not be easily found, forget taking and holding it. It’s an operation for a large group of people, not an extremely small one.
If i was to take it, I would have to do some serious remodeling. At least a dry ditch, reenforcing the gates and walls as possible, some type of emplaced weaponry at the corners, maybe even trying to overhaul it to make it more fortified against outside sources.
McLuvin on 10 Sep 2012 at 9:20 am #
I figure a prison is gonna have guard towers. A few spotters in towers on opposite ends of the compound could keep an eye on the entire perimeter for any potential breaches. They could signal if they see a plow toting Escalade.
Docwade on 10 Sep 2012 at 10:19 am #
Soooooo, how many people are in your group??? I heard numbers like four, 12, a couple dozen (closer to reality). You would likely need more than that to take it AND hold it. So you have four or more guard towers. Well, those guys or gals will need relieved, and to be in tip top spotting condition, you can’t leave them there for 8 hours. They’ll start playing games on their iphones. So, now you have at least 8 people tied up with just the guard tower rotation. You will likely need a two man perimeter rover also just to make sure no one is dicking with the fence at night. Car traps and trenches take a lot of work and I am assuming you don’t have diesel to spare. To dig a trench around a prison that houses between 1000-2000 inmates …well, I’m sure they gentlemen that hang around home depot won’t be there looking for work anymore.
Now, the flip side would be to go smaller, say, the local jail. Usually houses 100-300 criminals. Usually 2 levels with a sub level. One to two guard towers that only overlook the small yard. Usually only has three entrances: main doors usually steel reinforced with thick shatter proof windows, the yard door which has it’s perimeter fence, and the cargo door which is steel. You will lose the double perimeter fence, but the building is much more manageable and is still a concrete reinforced structure with those tiny slit windows and sheer sides.
McLuvin on 10 Sep 2012 at 10:57 am #
I agree that a smaller facility is the best option. A thousand inmate supermax would be way too big. As for number of people in your prison castle, I’d Probably have several dozen. My original group of 4 was just the minimum I’d want to sweep the place. I’d have more than that in my group. As for guard towers, I don’t think you’d need to man all four corners. You could watch all sides from two opposing corners. The lookouts wouldn’t need to be super vigilant. They would have to watch for any living intruders and make sure zombies didn’t get thick enough in one spot to push the fence over. Living visitors would have a hard time approaching without your zombie alarm system alerting you.
Docwade on 10 Sep 2012 at 11:49 am #
I don’t know…I’ve seen people so engrossed in angry birds, etc that the world just passes by…and they get eaten.
McLuvin on 10 Sep 2012 at 12:36 pm #
I do tend to get engrossed in my games, but that shouldn’t be an issue after electricity is scarce. Then I’ll just nap a bunch.
Castle83 on 10 Sep 2012 at 12:45 pm #
Im with doc on the difficulty aspect of taking and holding a prison. The only way I would even think about taking a prison would be: 1. Extream issolation of the facility (so human and zombie intruders are less likely. 2. A small facility. As I’ve stated before, even juvinile facilities could be comperable in defense and would most likely be abandoned. 3. Completely empty of humans or only a small group of zombies. You would be hard pressed to take a prison if it was already held by human aggressors. Even untrained defenders would cause casualties. With all of those unlikely exceptions I MIGHT try to take the facility, it’s a huge gamble. Once that is said and done you would need to formulate an escape plan. What if your horded? The great defenses also keep you in if surrounded. You would need a means of escape and a means to get small teams out on a regular basis to forage.
TEOATTC on 10 Sep 2012 at 8:39 pm #
i read most but not ALL the comments so sorry if it has been covered, but one thing i didnt see mentioned was water…if you dont have water…you dont have anything…”clean drinking water” will be by far the hardest thing to come by. Many will die from viruses from contaminated water even if they survive the infected hordes…if theres no electricity water is not going to come out of your faucet for very long…you gonna be drinking ozarka in the apocalypse? better have a clean well or know how to distill, filter, and boil your drinking water otherwise your going to have the shits till you die.
wheelgunner on 10 Sep 2012 at 10:22 pm #
Feudalism at it’s best gentlemen, and ladies in the audience. What is the old standard? One man for every ten to thirty feet of wall, with reinforcements, for a fight. Those towers need to be manned, and I recommend two or three men to a tower. Use your slackers. That extra man keeps both of them up and focused. It can go a long way once routine and monotony set in.
It would seem that your best bet would be to use it as a position of strength to bring more survivors under your banner, pardon the continuation of feudal humor. You could repurpose at least a fair bit of the facility to make up for a lack of numbers, but in all likelihood, it’s just another port in the storm.
McLuvin on 10 Sep 2012 at 10:44 pm #
Why on earth would you need a man for every 30′ of fence and 3 men in each tower? You now have possibly hundreds of people to feed and care for. The idea of men covering the wall with little spacing was to prevent siege ladders from breaching your defense. With our lovely firearms we can cover vast sections of a fence much better than our ancestors with pikes and swords. You would be much more likely to see a human attack focused on a small section of your fence than spread thinly over multiple points. A few spotters in towers with the ability to direct a defense force would be much better. If possible I’d check army surplus stores for old field phones. That way you could communicate with the other parts of the facility.
specially equipped guardsman on 11 Sep 2012 at 12:28 am #
How many people in my group? That’s a tough one. On the one hand, If I look around me right now my zombie survival group would be based around the Battalion of Marines I’m currently working with. So yeah, I’m feeling pretty good about that plan. At home on the other hand, I can think of a dozen friends family and neighbors who could band together. On the gripping hand without hard data on how infectious the contagion actually is, its a little hard to predict how many of the people we love and trust will make the cut. Dang did I just get too real there?
wheelgunner on 11 Sep 2012 at 12:29 am #
I could think of a few different things to do in those cases. Most of my training and knowledge is admittedly out of date, but that does have some advantages in those types of situations.
You never know what you will be facing, and I was just making a point. Do you think zombies will be driving the proposed S.U.V.? And thirty feet is actually for firearms. I was speculating on converting it for hundreds of people, not just a few. Why not expand the scope? I honestly don’t expect that many, but you never know. So prepare.
Docwade on 11 Sep 2012 at 4:04 pm #
A nice read:
GUNSLINGER: An old prospector shuffled into the town of El Indio, Texas leading an old tired mule. The old man headed straight for the only saloon in town, to clear his parched throat. He walked up to the saloon and tied his old mule to the hitch rail. As he stood there, brushing some of the dust from his face and clothes, a young gunslinger stepped out of the saloon with a gun in one hand and a bottle of whiskey in the other. The young gunslinger looked at the old man and laughed, saying, “Hey old man, have you ever danced?”,,,The old man looked up at the gunslinger and said, “No, I never did dance … Never really wanted to.”,,,A crowd had gathered as the gunslinger grinned and said, “Well, you old fool, you’re gonna dance now,” ,,,and started shooting at the old man’s feet. The old prospector, not wanting to get a toe blown off, started hopping around like a flea on a hot skillet. Everybody was laughing, fit to be tied. When his last bullet had been fired, the young gunslinger, still laughing, holstered his gun and turned around to go back into the saloon. The old man turned to his pack mule, pulled out a double-barreled shotgun, and cocked both hammers. The loud clicks carried clearly through the desert air. The crowd stopped laughing immediately. The young gunslinger heard the sounds too, and he turned around very slowly. The silence was almost deafening. The crowd watched as the young gunman stared at the old timer and the large gaping holes of those twin 10 gauge barrels. The barrels of the shotgun never wavered in the old man’s hands, as he quietly said, “Son, have you ever kissed a mule’s Ass?”,,,The gunslinger swallowed hard and said, “No sir … But… I’ve always wanted to.”,,,There are a few lessons for us all here: Never be arrogant,,, Don’t waste ammunition,,,Whiskey makes you think you’re smarter than you are,,,Always, always make sure you know who has the power. Don’t mess with old folks…they didn’t get old by being stupid,,,
McLuvin on 11 Sep 2012 at 4:20 pm #
Nice!
wheelgunner on 12 Sep 2012 at 7:58 am #
Ha!
wheelgunner on 12 Sep 2012 at 7:59 am #
There used to be a reason behind all those “respect your elders” warnings.
Castle83 on 13 Sep 2012 at 4:24 pm #
I’m thinking about picking up an SKS. Anyone know anything about the platform? Recommended modifications? I believe it’s chambered in 7.62 x 54r which would work great since I have a ton for my Mosin.
CompShooter on 13 Sep 2012 at 5:23 pm #
Castle, make sure it is a threaded barrel not pinned. You will see two flats for a wrench milled on the barrel where it threads into the receiver otherwise you will see a dowel pin and these get loose over time. That’s about all I have on those .
CompShooter on 13 Sep 2012 at 5:28 pm #
Oh and the SKS is chambered in 7.62 x 39
Docwade on 13 Sep 2012 at 6:38 pm #
It’s a solid platform, good round, solid, relatively accurate, and reasonably priced. It’s a captive gas piston system like on a vz58 or any of the current ar15 piston conversion kits.
Castle83 on 14 Sep 2012 at 10:23 am #
Great, thanks for the info guys.
wheelgunner on 17 Sep 2012 at 10:28 am #
And get some stripper clips!
Castle83 on 18 Sep 2012 at 4:49 pm #
Ok, I have an idea. Why don’t one of us write up an article and submit it to Angry to post?
McLuvin on 18 Sep 2012 at 5:01 pm #
We already gave him a bunch of ideas. It’s not like we need a long article. He just needs to start the conversation, we’ll keep it rolling for a while.
Robbase on 19 Sep 2012 at 4:45 am #
Alrighty then!! This website is crap. No doubt. Used to be good. I’m going to erase it from my apps. The regulars (you know who you are) are bored and quite frankly getting rather annoying. **Ie. [Pits with noise makers, lye, um other stupid bs.] Since were bench racing: I’ll just go down to the marine base in 29palms and highjack a fucking tank or a blkhwk helopcopter. Im sensing a real “Dungeons and Dragons” vibe here?! I posed a .22lr hypothetical(rooftop senario) as we’ve all seen in Dawn of the Dead and Walking Dead. No thoughts? Thousands trying to breach ? Boxes of thousands of pussy 22 rounds for less than $200. No good? My 308′s are a buck a piece. I don’t know whatever.
My suggestion to every red blooded American is to stand on your front porch and shoot everything that moves in your direction. Show compssion to those in need, and slaughter aggessors. Nuff said!
Bragging rights.. A modest civilian American armory folks! Goes as such:-(glock36 .45acp)-(s&w629.44mag6″)-(beretta96a 40sw)-(mossberg930bw 8+1-)(sold my peice of Russian shit saiga12 for profit$$ btw;every dumbass thinks they’re so great)-(M1A match 308,1/8moa scope,20rd mag) Stand and deliver boys! Don’t forget your Kevlar. And army ration are a good idea to stock up on, as well as the water decontaminator called Lifestraw$20.up to 1000galons.
wheelgunner on 19 Sep 2012 at 8:55 am #
Chill out man. So, everyone is busy, lulls happen, we’ve come back from them before. I say if anyone wants to write something up, what can it hurt to give Viking a hand? The most he’ll do is nothing.
You want something done right, do it yourself. Quit being a bunch of democratics, and waiting for someone else do do all the work for you. You want it done, do it. End of story.
Personally, I’m tired of everyone moaning.
HangMan on 19 Sep 2012 at 12:38 pm #
Woah, Wheel. Ease up on the political insults, we’re all a little bit different here. That’s a good way to start some petty flame war. And on the note of Viking, yeah I agree with you. Tried e-mailing him a couple ideas, no response. Could be a lost in translation with my e-mail or he could be busy. Shit happens and none of us are Admin, maybe time to start up a new website? Maybe set up a blog and share the info amongst some people who’ve been here a while, myself, Wheelgunner, Doc, maybe even dig up a few new recruits? Used to go under the title of Sharpshooter here, but a buddy of mine pulled some not so funny shit and decided to just say fuck it and change my user name. Fuck I don’t care. Ideas people, lets start throwing them out.
Robbase on 19 Sep 2012 at 4:13 pm #
OkLet’s get political. It’s awesome and appropriate. People seem to just really bond and come together talking politics. I’d also like to take min to talk to y’all bout Jesus. Just kiddin. I’m so democratic I don’t even vote(it’s my right). I buy guns. No guilt whatsoever. Not gonna wait for life “to get fair”, whaa! I shed a small tear for the nations political struggles at the gun range. I definately agree to take action and never rely on BigBrother, i can barely put faith in state law. Thats true democracy/self governing. Don’t worry them takin our guns either.. That’d be the stupidest godam move in American history. Were talking BLOODSHED. those pussys like their cush govt office jobs. They don’t have to contribute to society like real Americans. The guy who scrubs toilets at 7-11 is more American than any govt worker(police,fileclerks, judges, DA’s, and especially the President)
Sorry for the off color “dungeons” remark. Yall seem like good american boys to me. Its just bully jock(character defect)in me. No rebuttal necessary. Don’t care to discuss further. Sorry.
I read this to see what y’all are packing. What kind heat do bring to the fire!? What caliber(s) am I going to use? Can I carry my M1A crossback, with single sling tact shotty infront. Glock36 in vest with multiple mags m1A/&.45.. Shotshell pouch fanny pack. Crossdraw SW.44mag holstered. Beretta.40 dropleg..And a 8″ katana blade beltside. Plus backpack?? I’m curious about 223, alot of you have ARs. But I just feel that 308 is just the balls, you know? It’s heavy duty big game. I can manage the recoil of mulitple shot in cq situation. I’m sure an 18″m15 would be lighter and more rounds fired. But unless fully auto. I don’t see the point.
It’s alot, but I feel I need it all. I mean fuck traveling to a prison or anywhere, except crosstown to grab Mom. Otherwise, hold the fort down. Man up! What are we? Isn’t that what we do, defend our own homes.
I’ve been captivated by hollywoods depiction of Z-Day. You wake up one morning and you’re instantly on the move. Bloodsoaked pajamas and barefeet running down the street because you daughters trying to kill you. It’s really entertaining. Implausible, yes. Fun, you bet.
Guns=freedom. Idiot+guns=chaotic tragedy. Goodguys have more guns than the Badguys. I know this has to be true, it Has to be! Peace and goodwill to you all. I’ll chk in periodically, but this is my last post. This topic/subject matter has become moot. And boring. But hey! Walking Dead starts in 3wks. I’ll probably rekindle our interests. Twas a cruel summer indeed.
Robbase on 19 Sep 2012 at 6:53 pm #
If I want interesting, I’ll try myself. Thanks to some helpful regs in this site. Don’t wait, but TAKE ACTION!
Senario: ZDAY- wakeup in morning, worlds gone to hell. Complete confusion and disbelief. Still in pajamas step outside to see chaos on your own suburban/urban block. Canabalism! People in their blood-soaked pajamas running for they’re lives. Begging for help.
Average John/Jane Doe are unprepared and ultimately victims. The other type novice has his peashooter out and is basically a hazard. We “prepped for ZDAY-ers” go back inside imediately and gear up. Rifle(s)&side(s) is the common tactic we seems to share as most efficient.
(1) I think clearing the block/general area is priority 1. ARs &Tactical autoloader shotgun, w/2sidearm(.45-.40).
(2) Then moving onward to other neighboring streets/blocks/farms to help thy neighbor. But beware! Tensions are up and communication on being friendly is crutial. Everybody’s looking out for marauders.
(3) Make sure everbodies got water or means to obtain. Love thy neighbor,Iguess **LifeStraw$20(1000gal)99.999% decontamination( good investment )
(4) Find out how the GD govt is doin. Help the police is their egos will permit. And uh either that or go home. Obey a curfue. But get on your rooftop with your scoperifle. THATS WHY I BROUGHT UP 22LRs!!! I Don’t Even feckin own one!!
Bottom line go home and protect your shit
Robbase on 19 Sep 2012 at 7:08 pm #
If I want interesting, I’ll try myself. Thanks to some helpful regs in this site. Don’t wait, but TAKE ACTION!
Senario: ZDAY- wakeup in morning, worlds gone to hell. Complete confusion and disbelief. Still in pajamas step outside to see chaos on your own suburban/urban block. Canabalism! People in their blood-soaked pajamas running for they’re lives. Begging for help.
Average John/Jane Doe are unprepared and ultimately victims. The other type novice has his peashooter out and is basically a hazard. We “prepped for ZDAY-ers” go back inside imediately and gear up. Rifle(s)&side(s) is the common tactic we seems to share as most efficient.
(1) I think clearing the block/general area is priority 1. ARs &Tactical autoloader shotgun, w/2sidearm(.45-.40).
(2) Then moving onward to other neighboring streets/blocks/farms to help thy neighbor. But beware! Tensions are up and communication on being friendly is crutial. Everybody’s looking out for marauders.
(3) Make sure everbodies got water or means to obtain. Love thy neighbor,Iguess **LifeStraw$20(1000gal)99.999% decontamination( good investment )
(4) Find out how the GD govt is doin. Help the police, if their egos will permit. And uh either that or go home. Obey a curfue. But get on your rooftop with your scoperifle. THATS WHY I BROUGHT UP 22LRs!!! I Don’t Even feckin own one!! It just seems like SUCH A GOOD IDEA, if overwhelmed on a roof. ANYONE?? BUELLER?? BUELLER? fuckit:(
OBEY CURFUE, but get on the roof, that’s what my Gma’s bros did in Montana 1929 to intercept Indian marauders at midnite. It was a commonality back then.
(5) most important!! Hold your own homestead and less equipt neighbors and we will all be fine. Do your part. People are gratefull. We here at this site Are The Real Soilders. Its ok to be heoric. You could save other families and feel good even in the fucking apocalypse(:
Bottom line go home and protect your shit. Buy ammo!
CompShooter on 19 Sep 2012 at 8:08 pm #
Maybe buy some decaf, just sayin..
HangMan on 19 Sep 2012 at 8:18 pm #
My thoughts exactly Comp… Wonderful invention, decaf.
McLuvin on 19 Sep 2012 at 9:26 pm #
What the hell is this guy smoking?
Your posts are almost impossible to follow. Between the random streams of thought and the grammar/spelling, it’s hard to tell what you are getting at. Not to mention that you post telling us you are not posting anymore only to follow it up with a lengthy double post.
P.S. Your loadout is idiotic. See wheelgunner, I do it to other people too.
wheelgunner on 19 Sep 2012 at 9:36 pm #
HA!
At least I didn’t call him a Nazi or something. Imagine the rant we could have gotten out of that.
TEOATTC on 20 Sep 2012 at 12:59 am #
Politics and religion are much better after a night of heavy drinking.
P Cheng on 21 Sep 2012 at 2:57 am #
Ummm… I don’t want to start a fight or anything, but as Americans, we are in almost zero danger of having guns taken away. The Constitution is set up that it’ll take an amendment to take gun rights away, but the U.S. is approximately 73% in favor of gun rights (around 08/12, I forget what polling group, right after the Aurora shooting even). And the fact is that Obama has done practically nothing in his first term in office to gun control (in fact, he never even talked about it until Aurora). The chances that a gun control amendment would pass is infinitesimally small. The only real threat comes from individual states and what they require so far as background checks, if they make them more harsh or whatever, but then you can just appeal to circuit courts for injunctive or declaratory relief, but even this is a tiny chance since most people are for gun rights anyway. So relax, no one is coming for our guns, not in the near future.
So far as the subject of a prison as a base, a big pro is that they (generally) are well-stocked, designed to keep people BOTH in and out, relatively easy to defend, isolated, have adequate space/tools/facilities for just about anything you could need for long-term survival, and while actually inside a prison, I am somewhat confident that my close combat skills alone would be quite effective in clearing the area (assuming that most prisons are generally designed somewhat restrictively, so that guards can more easily subdue inmates, should the need arise, I’ve trained for just over 20 years in various forms of short-ranged close combat forms, so I feel particularly confident in “corridor” or “urban” fighting). The cons: prisons are often very secure, so blueprint knowledge or practical recon is near impossible to do, unless you or someone in your “group” happens to work there pre-zed, it’s isolated, so resupply might be difficult/hazardous, prisons are designed to be (relatively) self-sufficient, but would probably be uncomfortable, the chances of a prison being uninhabited would be extremely low since most American prisons are going to be at capacity or just under, so it would take a lot of manpower to secure and hold one. I live about two miles down the road from a prison that houses 1014 inmates and I pass by it every day on my way into town, but I have never been inside and I often wonder about the blueprint of each building in the compound. I’m strange that way, almost every building I enter on a regular basis, I will explore and eventually get a blueprint of, just in case. I would not feel particularly secure in a prison unless it was small enough to patrol the whole area within a couple hours, and only after I’ve secured a hard copy blueprint to confirm every room (this also has to do with my martial art training, blueprints and building layouts help me analyze and use my surrounding to the fullest extent, I would not breach or assault any type of structure without at least a rudimentary grasp of its layout). Since an integral part of prison security is secrecy concerning the blueprint, I would probably personally stay away from such an area, especially if it could be filled with potentially 1014+ zeds. But of course, if I had a larger group and some previous knowledge or a good guide into the place, I might well would try to hold such a fortified position.
@AngryVikingMan: I am interested in finding out more about that armory, specifically about riot armor and gear and levels of protection they afford, but I understand if you’re not allowed to talk about that. Something you might be able to talk about: how well stocked are the medical supplies and clinic area, and how is food stored? I’ve also taken a few brief looks at your knives and they look like good designs, however they are not what I’m personally interested in for the most part. I’ve kinda been looking for a good-sized kerambit, especially since I need to practice, my silat is getting terribly rusty. I’m also looking for a sword breaker dagger, preferably with a bit of heft, not the kind with the notches on one edge, but the kind that looks like two single edged knives together. I’m terribly poor at the moment, going back to school takes all my time/money/energy, so your prices are also going to have to take a backseat to buying monthly ramen supplies Q.Q
@Castle: concerning your public works idea, I thought of something interesting, I think. State parks and national parks are usually isolated, full of game wildlife (how much would we care about conservation in the Z Apocalypse?) and would have at least a few of these things you mentioned (plus maybe you’d get lucky and find a bear-proof suit, I hear there’s a few of those floating out there somewhere). Just a thought.
Regarding juvenile detention centers: I would personally stay pretty far away from them. I used to be one of those juveniles, and from what I remembered, some of these kids were extremely resourceful and cruel, I would not doubt that during an apocalypse, at least a few of these kids would survive, and if they do, they’re going to be probably the worst of the worst. I just think the risk/reward scenario of occupying a juvenile detention center probably won’t pay off, I’d take my chances against adult rapists and murderers. I feel like adults are a little more predictable than juveniles hopped up on hormones and angst.
As far as my “group” goes, well it’s pretty eclectic. I should probably start with that I live near Huntsville, AL, it’s a strange mix of just about every skill this world has to offer, and also frequently called the most educated city on earth, with more pH Ds per capita than anywhere else in the world. A lot of my close friends are former or current military and some of my friends are also martial arts students (martial arts in the sense of various forms of what I would consider “non-sporting self defense”, of myself, I’m a traditional martial artist, most of my skills are inherited from my grandfather and other masters)so obviously I’d expect these people to provide defense and strategy. I have a few friends that are farmers so they’d help plan for long-term survival. I have a good number of friends that are mechanics, one in particular is also in school to become an aerospace engineer and already has a pilot’s license. His dad owns a plane, so he’s uniquely able to work on just about all things mechanical (every year he has to practically take the plane apart and put it back together, the yearly check is pretty important to plane owners, apparently). I’ve also got a friend who’s a park ranger, one recently got his AFC chef certification, a few nurses, even a few doctors (although I’m not terribly sure how useful a proctologist would be, still he went through med school, the internal medicine guy would probably be good though). I have a very eclectic group of friends, and even though I realistically can’t expect all of them to survive, I think it’s a good core group, but the most important part is that we all get along, we all have some very practical skills, and we all absolutely trust each other. I think that living on the run would be more stressful, ultimately pointless, and impossible to sustain in the long run. We also all have family and some friends we’d like to protect, some with young children. Life on the run would be very hazardous to “civilian” type members of your crew, a fortified base would be essential to long-term survival of any civilian group in a potentially hostile environment.
CompShooter on 21 Sep 2012 at 9:24 pm #
Intresting , saw on tv the NRA tv. A new product. Trijicon SRS. Solar and battery b powered fast acquisition picatinny rail scope has my attention. You can use your flip up iron sights through it if needed . I’m not a battery op accessory proponent by my CMP competition nature but this not only brings alternative power but also the ability to use iron pop up sights through the scope in case of eventual battery failure which is listed as 3-4 years on common AA batteries In a zed world, foraged batteries have a finite lifespan unless you have a supply of rechargeables and the means to recharge them and it would suck to run out of red dot when you really needed it ?….click…..good ole irons..
McLuvin on 21 Sep 2012 at 9:41 pm #
All 1x optics have the ability to use BUIS through them. Aimpoint and Eotech have the red dot market pretty well bottled up, but the trip icon offerings have some nice options. I don’t care for the amber dot on dome of them or the blue tinted glass on others, but overall they are a quality product.
Robbase on 22 Sep 2012 at 3:42 am #
@mcmuffin
I’m smokin great shit, I got from your mom after I fucked her. There you go buddy. Eat a bag of dicks, you stupid fuck. I’m probably insulting a ninety pound weakling. So I’ll let you; you fucking faggot, have your little forum here all to yourself. I don’t feel like be insulted by a peice shit. You little worm
Robbase on 22 Sep 2012 at 3:44 am #
How’s my grammar there??you fucking bitch
Robbase on 22 Sep 2012 at 3:49 am #
45471 deep canyon
palm desert ca.92260
There’s my address…Come see me
Robbase on 22 Sep 2012 at 4:20 am #
Ok my bad, I’m clearly more of a psychopath than a nazi or democrat. And whiskey is already decaf. So I have no right to be on this site talking shit when drinking. I’m not bringing anything to this forum. And now I’m fighting via blog?!? Ugh I need a new hobby. If I’ve offended anyone besides mcmuffin IM SORRY! Mcmuffin-you’re a jerk. It’s probably all I really needed to say, but I tend take things to the limit. Ease up on the thinly veiled insults(democrats/nazis etc.) they read just as good as stuff like:”fuck you mother”. You guys are getting bored.
And also Mcmuffin you’re right! I should’ve stopped when I said I was going to. I did leave two more lengthly posts, so basically I asked for all this.
HangMan on 22 Sep 2012 at 1:22 pm #
Yeah the political insults are a bit much. the democrat one was the one that struck me as a bit odd. what’s wrong with being a democrat? Hard left is bad, but hard right is too. six of one, a half dozen of the other, I suppose.
McLuvin on 22 Sep 2012 at 2:55 pm #
The problem with being a democrat is that even if you aren’t extreme left, the assholes you vote for are.
Robbase on 22 Sep 2012 at 3:46 pm #
You guys have advanced knowledge with firearms, compared to me. I’m novice at best. Instead of leaving ridiculous posts that ARE hard to follow, I should ask you questions. Like should I buy this used benelli m1($900) or new benelli m4($1700). I only understand m1 uses recoil, and other has gas system. It’s all new to me. They’re beautiful shotguns.
As for my PISS POOR behavior..It just gets me. I was called “idiotic”,”smoking drugs”,”democrat”, all the way down to having poor grammar(who do I have to be- Edgar fuckin Allen Poe to post on a fantasy zombie site?)..these aren’t compliments! None of you know me. It’s like chasing a kid out of a class room for asking a dumb question. Of course he’s gonna spew every four letter word he knows on his way out. I don’t like when someone insults my intelligence(it infuriates me). I’m 6’6″ 265lbs and YES I was bullied as a child. Not anymore.
And being called a democrat is now days synonymous with being called a pussy. My dads Rep(business owner) my moms Dem(school teacher), its a no brainer as to why. Its sickening how we bicker. ALL I KNOW IS IM AN AMERICAN. that’s good enough for me, besides I’d rather talk guns.
McLuvin on 22 Sep 2012 at 4:19 pm #
The benellis are top of the line. You can’t go wrong with either one. I’d look around for a cheaper used M1. They can be found around $750 if you keep an eye out. The M4 is a fantastic firearm, but the prices have steadily gone up for no reason. It has some nice features, but it is in no way twice the gun that an M1 is. As far as differences go, the biggest is recoil. The M4 has the ARGO gas system that softens recoil and adds weight which also lessens recoil. The M1 is lighter by about a pound and it uses a recoil driven bolt. Both of those will mean slightly more recoil. The trade off is that it’s easier to carry and a simpler mechanism. Both will run flawlessly and forever so you just need to decide how much recoil you want and how much money you can spend.
wheelgunner on 22 Sep 2012 at 6:55 pm #
I believe that I called everyone democratics. As in, people who are part of a democracy. Not a political party. Democrat has a capital D in it, and no s at the end. To be clear.
I’ll take $900 over $1700 any day, if I can help it.
Also, where I’m from, any kid spewing for letter words on the way out of the room is going to get beat. By everyone. Why should you be special? We tend to get on everyone’s case for not acting, spelling, or whatnot, like a full grown English speaking adult. I’m sorry if that doesn’t go down well with whiskey and whine, but you are just proving my point about democratics.
wheelgunner on 22 Sep 2012 at 6:56 pm #
*four letter words. Ha.
Castle83 on 23 Sep 2012 at 4:32 pm #
@P Cheng, good post P. In regards to juvenile detention centers, you missed my point like a few others. It’s not that I would rather deal with juveniles then hardened killers. It’s that any serious offender in a juvenile facility would have been tried as an adult and moved to another facility.
Do you think they would keep minor criminal kids locked up in a full blown apocalypse? They would be released it to there parents custody and the facility would be EMPTY. Where as a state prison would never let the serious criminals go.
I have worked with probation officers and regularly testified in court, I know the system pretty well.
specially equipped guardsman on 23 Sep 2012 at 11:04 pm #
“Do you think they would keep minor criminal kids locked up in a full blown apocalypse? They would be released it to there parents custody and the facility would be EMPTY.
I have worked with probation officers and regularly testified in court, I know the system pretty well.”
@castle wait, your saying they actually have contingency plans for the zombie Apocalypse? It all makes sense now, I KNEW IT! its all real! and they said I was mad!
P Cheng on 24 Sep 2012 at 1:37 am #
@speciallyequipped: http://www.cdc.gov/phpr/zombies.htm
Many governmental agencies have contingency plans for just about anything you can imagine, although most of the “zombie” plans will not actually say “zombie” or “reanimated dead” or anything like that at all. The idea is that a zed apocalypse is pretty much the ultimate test of survivorship, that someone prepared for zeds would just as easily be prepared for earthquake, hurricane, or any other natural/unnatural disaster that might occur. The U.S. army actually has a manual on how to deal with zombies: https://www.box.com/shared/154kr4e0vz
@castle: I had not thought about that juveniles with serious charges might be moved. Looking back, I don’t recall that I was ever in there with serious criminals, just average sadistic dicks, small time criminals, some junkies. Overcrowding wasn’t much of a problem in the detention centers that I knew of. A juvenile detention center would have similar limitations that a prison would, perhaps in a smaller scale, but would also offer similar pros, again in a smaller scale. I don’t think a juvenile detention center would be anywhere near as well stocked as a prison might be (I assume that each place would be better stocked towards the beginning of the month than the end; here’s hoping that the zombie apocalypse happens on the first of the month, eh?) but the risks involved are going to be similar (although I don’t know of any juvenile detention centers housing anywhere near 1k people, while most prisons would have comparable inmate populations, so the risks would probably be lessened to a great extent). I would still be careful; I imagine that these juveniles would be resourceful and have similar ideas, some of them might take the opportunity to return once their guardians have died (or indeed, take advantage of the situation, so to speak). If you want to take a juvenile detention center, I think it’s possible you’d need to be prepared to kill a few teenagers.
In the interest of disclosure, I was in juvie for running away from home. I was young and the stress got to me, and Asian moms are awfully harsh sometimes.
As far as supplies go, the government keeps handy massive stockpiles of just about everything, but spread out. http://www.cdc.gov/phpr/stockpile/stockpile.htm
I haven’t got much of an idea of where to begin to find these, any help in this area would be appreciated. Medical supplies in the apocalypse would be worth much more than just about anything else I’d think.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/jhtml/jframe.html#http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/images/bases.pdf|||
A map of U.S. military bases and arsenals. For obvious reasons. I’m lucky that I live about 10 miles away from a good-sized one. My mother works there as a civilian engineer for the army, so I’ve been there often enough to get an idea of the layout.
There are also unconfirmed reports that the federal government is allegedly stocking up on freeze-dried, canned, and otherwise preserved foods. This seems to be a fairly recent development (within the last decade or so, although I could be wrong, and that people have just now caught on while it’s been happening for ages). Popular explanations range from “apocalypse preparedness” to “China-controlled world food supply independence”. If anyone can confirm these rumors, I would very much like to hear an explanation.
I think exploiting these stockpiles in a time of crisis would be crucial, especially if we are to rebuild society. Although we should always be careful to ration in an apocalypse situation, living off of a stockpile might be just what we need to do before we can build sustainable communities. It would free up manpower otherwise used to procure food (foraging and farming) to more long-term uses (building, defense, research, re-learning lost sciences and skills such as specialty medicine, &c.). Of course, we wouldn’t have to live primarily off a stockpile if we did find one, we could use it to supplement parts of our diet that’s harder to get, extra ammo and weapons and medicine would always be useful.
Castle83 on 24 Sep 2012 at 10:06 am #
@SEG no need to be an ass. All I’m saying is that if there were a major catastrophe of “apocalyptic” proportions be it hurricanes, massive earth quakes or a fucking zombie apocalypse; logic dictates that the powers that be would not waste man power and energy watching a bunch of kids.
Especially if the were in harms way.
And if the government can’t issue orders to let these kids go? Well you can’t seriously believe that their guards would just hang around. They would likely leave and let their charges go. I sure as hell would if humanity was being overrun by man eating corpses.
Of course my previous statement was SPECULATION, god forbid I speculate on a zombie forum.
P Cheng on 24 Sep 2012 at 11:24 am #
I tried to post last night, but I must have either been too tired to do it properly or what I posted was taken down. Take two.
@SEG: http://www.cdc.gov/phpr/zombies.htm
http://xbradtc.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/fm-999-3-counter-zombie-operations-at-the-fireteam-level-v1-1-pdf-file-shared-from-box-net-free-online-file-storage/
Many governmental agencies actually have such contingency plans. A lot of apocalypse situation contingency plans are holdovers from the Cold War days when nuclear war was a possibility.
If any apocalypse level situation occurs, every governmental agency would enact their contingency plan, although most of them probably won’t be optimal for a zombie apocalypse scenario.
@Castle: good point about the juvenile detention centers, that they would probably be cleared. I don’t believe that juvenile detention centers would be as overpopulated as the average prison would, so the pros and cons of the situation would be similar, but probably lesser on all counts.
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/stockpile/
The CDC keeps large stockpiles of medical supplies in case of disasters. Where these stockpiles would be, I have no idea, but they’d probably be near population centers, but not actually within a major city. The best way to find these places would likely be strategic analysis of major highway routes, logically speaking, such stockpiles might be in areas with suspiciously more major highways than would be justified by regular traffic alone. You might not find such a stockpile if you follow the routes, but something valuable, assuming you did the analysis right.
Obviously arsenals and military bases would be the stockpile for weapons. I posted a map of major U.S. military bases last night, but either I didn’t actually post it, or it was taken down. You can find a maps of them online in some cases.
I have heard unconfirmed rumors that the U.S. government is stockpiling freeze-dried and otherwise preserved foods in preparation for something. Popular explanations range from “apocalypse level scenario” to “independence from China-controlled world food supplies”. If anyone can confirm these rumors or offer an explanation, I’d like to hear it.
Such stockpiles are created for disaster scenarios. It could be vital to long-term rebuilding, take manpower away from gathering and into future investments.
specially equipped guardsman on 24 Sep 2012 at 4:41 pm #
@castle, sorry dude, I wasn’t trying to be an ass, it was a joke. an attempt at humor. On a serious note, I highly doubt any incarceration facility from the county jail to super max has any plan that involves turning prisoners loose. I imagine their plans are more concerned with keeping them from getting out. possibly transferring them to another site, but turning criminals loose on a post disaster world? seems like it would just make things worse.
P Cheng on 24 Sep 2012 at 4:49 pm #
Oh, sorry about double posting. I forgot about the moderation thing. Just delete one of the posts (and this one too, please).
Castle83 on 24 Sep 2012 at 5:48 pm #
It’s cool, I shouldn’t get so defensive. I just get pissed when shits taken out of context. I think there is a serious need for a humor/sarcasm font.
CompShooter on 24 Sep 2012 at 8:49 pm #
Ha, sounds like the five years I was married,……taken out of context…..
Angryvikingman on 25 Sep 2012 at 5:41 am #
@castle83 I agree, that font IS needed. Especially for texting. My wife gets pissed sometimes over stuff I said in jest.
Angryvikingman on 30 Sep 2012 at 7:47 pm #
Ok, start submitting articles. Out of the ones I get, I’ll select a few to post. angryvikingman@yahoo.com
Put as the title: “Zombie articles”
specially equipped guardsman on 02 Oct 2012 at 4:13 pm #
Hey viking did you get my suggestions? I’m in theater right now and Outlook can be a little hit or miss.
3-15 INF on 03 Oct 2012 at 10:10 pm #
i would think a prison would be a little too large to defend with the size of group i would have. a group of more than 20 or 30 would strain the logistics and leadership abilities of me. I would rather defend a smaller apartment building with a security gate and a pool.
Robbase on 07 Oct 2012 at 4:50 am #
@wgunner/mluvn
Wow.Thanks for your integrity, and generosity. Thanks for your advice. I am very embarrassed. I was in the wrong. I was drinking. Not an excuse. But I am sorry. Peace be with you.
wheelgunner on 12 Oct 2012 at 11:19 pm #
It happens. Just remember to kick some ass come z-day and all will be forgiven. Ha.
Sasuke-kun on 22 Oct 2012 at 5:03 pm #
I’m a white South African male :D so I don’t fit under democrat or republican , haha , nd don’t quite get what the heck Obama did that made the country hate him, but I prefer the scenario side of this cite rather than the talking of guns LOL!
Because I’m South African, majority of people don’t own a gun, cause there are so many licenses you need for them , you end up paying through the roof to keep your fire arm, though I must say though I don’t know my guns , I do prefer not stuffing around , nd would like to go straight dor a shotgun, not the old winchester 1s with double barrel where you gotta reload after every shot , rather I like the 1s where you got 8 rounds and whenever you feel like it you reload.
I do however know my katana, as a friend and I have started our own collection of japanese combat gear, my plan in a Z apocalypse is make as little noise and friends as possible ,and protect core group @ all costs
:D hope yaull enjoyed your halloween whenever it was..
Lez on 15 Nov 2012 at 9:34 am #
The prison near me, Cardiff prison, is built like an old castle and would be a great defense position. The only problem with it is that it’s in the center of the city… this would be a dangerous place full of zombies.
But a more rural prison would be awesome.
P Cheng on 02 Jan 2013 at 7:30 am #
@sasuke: so far as h2h combat is concerned, especially with katana and other bladed weapons, the really tricky thing is the maintenance of such weapons. In my own opinion, unless you’re trained in basic weapon smithing, sticking with common tools might be better than using some fancy weapons. Most katana that you might find for sale are not even combat ready, relying on one might be dangerous. There is also considerable dialogue within the martial arts community that suggests that unless the wielder uses the sword in the right way, common katana are only effective for the first few strikes. I wouldn’t trust a katana unless I knew it was made of spring steel or carbon steel, or some other SAE 10-something steel. I believe that your best bet would usually be either a blunt weapon, massive trauma wounds will be particularly effective while requiring little training or maintenance, or common construction or gardening implements, like the hatchet, machete, or maybe a sledgehammer. Such tools are built for repetitive blows, are easily obtained, and can be maintained or replaced with ease.
3-15 INF on 16 Jan 2013 at 12:36 pm #
i agree you should make sure it’s quality, but nowadays there’s plenty of factory made katanas that are tough as hell for 5 or 6 hundred bucks. But unless Z-day happens, what other use do you have for one? I guess if they make guns illegal, lots of people will buy ‘em.